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Anyone in Ireland that can speak Irish only?
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Hotblack Desiato wrote: »Press an extra button causing delay at an ATM where people may be fearful of mugging, because less than 1% of users need to impose that choice upon everyone else.
There you have it, folks. You Gaeilgeoiri have blood on your hands
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If you were intending to respond to post 236 you are missing the point in quoting 2%.
My question relates to this, as posted: "From the data, second language (L2) speakers can be calculated by looking at the difference between native and total speakers, as a proportion of the total. For example, 66% of English speakers learned it as a second language."
The question is not what percentage of the total population speaks Irish as L2, but what percentage of all Irish speakers are L2 speakers. All those who are every day speakers are not necessarily L1 speakers. I appreciate that it may be very difficult if not impossible to divine this information but maybe it is capable of an educated guess.
4% of our tiny population speaks the language as their daily method of communication.
This is why I quite often argue, that the Irish language is not actually particularly important either as a tool for mass communication or as a tool for promoting Irish culture/heritage.
Because so few people can/do speak the language on a daily basis, if you wanted to allocate funds for promoting Irish culture/history/heritage (call it what you will)... it actually doesn't make much sense to produce these things in the Irish language.
English is actually the most practical and sensible language to use when promoting Irish culture, as it gives you the best possible chance of reaching the largest audience - particularly with tourism etc. And yet the fanatical gaeilgeoir types ignore this logic when attempting to promote Irish culture.
You could pick many examples, but let's take comedy as one example... (it is classified under the art and culture sector btw)
Let's say you produced Father Ted as an Irish language show, instead of English.... Which is not a particularly crazy idea, as the show was written and produced by two Irish writers and set on a fictional Island off the west coast... so would have been ideal as an Irish language show.
That show has millions of fans around the world, including people like Steven Spielberg, Jim Carrey, Steve Martin... (Maurice Gibb of the Bee Gees was even buried with a DVD box set of the show!) :pac:
But if you produced that show in Irish, you would have denied millions of these people the chance to enjoy a great example of Irish humour. And yet, producing the show in English doesn't stop any Irish language enthusiasts from enjoying it... because, as we all know, they're all fluent in English!
The argument behind pouring money into art or cultural projects produced in the Irish language, with the principal aim of promoting Irish culture/heritage/history etc, just doesn't make much logical sense... your target audience for the Irish language is always going to be tiny.
English is the best language to use, when promoting Irish culture... but this simple logic is lost on fanatical gaeilgeoir types, who are blinded by their emotional attachment to their ancient language. And it's pretty much pointless trying to have a common sense discussion, with anyone who forms their arguments based on emotion rather than logic!
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Gretas Gonna Get Ya! wrote: »
English is actually the most practical and sensible language to use when promoting Irish culture, as it gives you the best possible chance of reaching the largest audience - particularly with tourism etc. And yet the fanatical gaeilgeoir types ignore this logic when attempting to promote Irish culture.
English is the best language to use, when promoting Irish culture... but this simple logic is lost on fanatical gaeilgeoir types, who are blinded by their emotional attachment to their ancient language. And it's pretty much pointless trying to have a common sense discussion, with anyone who forms their arguments based on emotion rather than logic!
You speak as if translating Irishness into English hasnt been tried before.... despite the facts that any translator will tell you..... There are no direct translations between languages. Why do you think there are hundreds of differing translations of the world's most famous book, the Bible?
Let's focus on your logical reasons and one that's right in front of your nose. Look out the window, whereever you are in Ireland. Find the irish name for location. It's almost certain to be more logical and informative than the English version.
If you go the mountains like I do, it's a lot more helpful for me when I can pickout Céim na mBulóg (pass of the bullocks) or Bruach na Binne (verge of the peak) instead of the mumbo jumbo English names of these beautiful summits in our landscape.... Camenabologue & Broaghnabinnia.
Knowing Irish grounds you.... to our land and to our traditions and it is beautiful.0 -
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Upforthematch wrote: »You speak as if translating Irishness into English hasnt been tried before.... despite the facts that any translator will tell you..... There are no direct translations between languages. Why do you think there are hundreds of differing translations of the world's most famous book, the Bible?
Let's focus on your logical reasons and one that's right in front of your nose. Look out the window, whereever you are in Ireland. Find the irish name for location. It's almost certain to be more logical and informative than the English version.
If you go the mountains like I do, it's a lot more helpful for me when I can pickout Céim na mBulóg (pass of the bullocks) or Bruach na Binne (verge of the peak) instead of the mumbo jumbo English names of these beautiful summits in our landscape.... Camenabologue & Broaghnabinnia.
Knowing Irish grounds you.... to our land and to our traditions and it is beautiful.
Fairly weak reasons tbh...
How does using the Irish spelling of something give you a deeper connection to Ireland or your Irishness?
How does saying Baile Atha Cliath instead of Dublin, for example, make me any more Irish? It doesn't... it's just something you and others have been raised to believe. But there is no way of proving that it does!
Any more than using the words "cul-de-sac" or "Reconnaissance" would give me a deeper connection to the country of France!
If anything, when people use the occasional Irish word in everyday conversations... those words basically just become part of our particular dialect of the English language.
Like using Taoiseach instead of prime minister. Or Gardai instead of police... you're not any less Irish if you say Police instead of Gardai. And you're not really speaking Irish when you use those occasional words... they've just basically become part of our regional version of English.
I think you are a bit delusional, if you think using the Irish spelling of place names makes us more Irish or "grounds us to our land"... It doesn't. You've just been raised and brainwashed to believe that.
Btw, you failed to address my point about producing things in the Irish language. How does producing a TV show in Irish (Like the hypothetical example of Father Ted above) help to promote Irish culture... when the vast majority of people don't speak Irish?0 -
Gretas Gonna Get Ya! wrote: »Fairly weak reasons tbh...
How does using the Irish spelling of something give you a deeper connection to Ireland or your Irishness?
How does saying Baile Atha Cliath instead of Dublin, for example, make me any more Irish? It doesn't... it's just something you and others have been raised to believe. But there is no way of proving that it does!
Any more than using the words "cul-de-sac" or "Reconnaissance" would give me a deeper connection to the country of France!
If anything, when people use the occasional Irish word in everyday conversations... those words basically just become part of our particular dialect of the English language.
Like using Taoiseach instead of prime minister. Or Gardai instead of police... you're not any less Irish if you say Police instead of Gardai. And you're not really speaking Irish when you use those occasional words... they've just basically become part of our regional version of English.
I think you are a bit delusional, if you think using the Irish spelling of place names makes us more Irish or "grounds us to our land"... It doesn't. You've just been raised and brainwashed to believe that.
Btw, you failed to address my point about producing things in the Irish language. How does producing a TV show in Irish (Like the hypothetical example of Father Ted above) help to promote Irish culture... when the vast majority of people don't speak Irish?
To be correct a regional version of Hiberno English not English. It aligns with English rather than American English due to location but is distinctly Hiberno English.
If you want further info
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hiberno-English
http://www.stevenroyedwards.com/irishenglishterms.html
So even when we speak English, we are speaking the Irish version of it.0 -
Gretas Gonna Get Ya! wrote: »4% of our tiny population speaks the language as their daily method of communication.
This is why I quite often argue, that the Irish language is not actually particularly important either as a tool for mass communication or as a tool for promoting Irish culture/heritage.
Because so few people can/do speak the language on a daily basis, if you wanted to allocate funds for promoting Irish culture/history/heritage (call it what you will)... it actually doesn't make much sense to produce these things in the Irish language.
English is actually the most practical and sensible language to use when promoting Irish culture, as it gives you the best possible chance of reaching the largest audience - particularly with tourism etc. And yet the fanatical gaeilgeoir types ignore this logic when attempting to promote Irish culture.
You could pick many examples, but let's take comedy as one example... (it is classified under the art and culture sector btw)
Let's say you produced Father Ted as an Irish language show, instead of English.... Which is not a particularly crazy idea, as the show was written and produced by two Irish writers and set on a fictional Island off the west coast... so would have been ideal as an Irish language show.
That show has millions of fans around the world, including people like Steven Spielberg, Jim Carrey, Steve Martin... (Maurice Gibb of the Bee Gees was even buried with a DVD box set of the show!) :pac:
But if you produced that show in Irish, you would have denied millions of these people the chance to enjoy a great example of Irish humour. And yet, producing the show in English doesn't stop any Irish language enthusiasts from enjoying it... because, as we all know, they're all fluent in English!
The argument behind pouring money into art or cultural projects produced in the Irish language, with the principal aim of promoting Irish culture/heritage/history etc, just doesn't make much logical sense... your target audience for the Irish language is always going to be tiny.
English is the best language to use, when promoting Irish culture... but this simple logic is lost on fanatical gaeilgeoir types, who are blinded by their emotional attachment to their ancient language. And it's pretty much pointless trying to have a common sense discussion, with anyone who forms their arguments based on emotion rather than logic!
You have missed the point of my post and either misread or ignored the question I asked.
It's clear from your posts that you have been damaged by your brush with the Irish language. Since you have taken this thread off topic again and again you may as well tell us all about it, I.e. the damage done to you by Irish.0 -
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