The Hobby Horses of Belief (and assorted hazards)

Peregrinus · 02-02-2021 2:29am

Pawwed Rig wrote: »

Easter is another holiday named after a woman.

Not in the first official language, where the holiday is Cáisc, which is ultimately from the Hebrew Pesach, Passover.

And, even in English, it's a bit iffy. Bede, writing in the eighth century, says that the Anglo-Saxons named the festival after Oestre, a dawn goddess. But he's writing about something that would have happened centuries before his time, he doesn't say how he knows this, and no other evidence has ever emerged that such a goddess was ever venerated by the Anglo-Saxons. Furthermore the Anglo-Saxons didn't come up with their own name for Easter; North Germany was Christianised before the Anglo-Saxons were, and the Anglo-Saxons adapted the word already current there, from which modern German gets Ostern.

smacl · 02-02-2021 9:43am

Peregrinus wrote: »

Not in the first official language, where the holiday is Cáisc, which is ultimately from the Hebrew Pesach, Passover.

And, even in English, it's a bit iffy. Bede, writing in the eighth century, says that the Anglo-Saxons named the festival after Oestre, a dawn goddess. But he's writing about something that would have happened centuries before his time, he doesn't say how he knows this, and no other evidence has ever emerged that such a goddess was ever venerated by the Anglo-Saxons. Furthermore the Anglo-Saxons didn't come up with their own name for Easter; North Germany was Christianised before the Anglo-Saxons were, and the Anglo-Saxons adapted the word already current there, from which modern German gets Ostern.

Just reading the extract on this from Wikipedia. My take on it is that while it is contentious, on balance Bede should not be disregarded here. That said, I'm no historian.

Pawwed Rig · 02-02-2021 12:42pm

Peregrinus wrote: »

Not in the first official language, where the holiday is Cáisc, which is ultimately from the Hebrew Pesach, Passover.

And, even in English, it's a bit iffy. Bede, writing in the eighth century, says that the Anglo-Saxons named the festival after Oestre, a dawn goddess. But he's writing about something that would have happened centuries before his time, he doesn't say how he knows this, and no other evidence has ever emerged that such a goddess was ever venerated by the Anglo-Saxons. Furthermore the Anglo-Saxons didn't come up with their own name for Easter; North Germany was Christianised before the Anglo-Saxons were, and the Anglo-Saxons adapted the word already current there, from which modern German gets Ostern.

It doesn't really matter though. The common understanding is that Easter was named after a Godess so hence the holiday is named after a woman. Needless to say the actual Godess never existed. Similarly on Halloween ghosts do not really come to life. The point was that holidays are not named after women. Easter is.

Peregrinus · 03-02-2021 2:11am

Fair enough. I'll accept that Easter is likely named after a goddess (who, for bonus points, also has one of the cardinal points of the compass names after her). And I agree that whether the goddess ever existed or not is irrelevant; a wholly fictional female character is still female.

But of course we were celebrating Easter in Ireland long before we were calling it "Easter", so perhaps this is really a holiday renamed after a goddess. Which opens up interesting possibilities; couldn't we rename some of the existing public holidays to honour (real, mythic, figurative or fictional) female characters, preferably of national cultural or political significance? Michael O'Leary's bank holiday doesn't have a name that's in common use; there's an obvious opportunity there. Kathleen Ni Houlihan Day, anyone? Sean-Bhean Bhocht Day? Sheela-na-Gig Day?

auspicious · 03-02-2021 2:31am

And when you pray, do not be like the hypocrites, for they love to pray standing in the synagogues and on the street corners to be seen by men. I tell you the truth, they have received their reward in full. But when you pray, go into your room, close the door and pray to your Father, who is unseen.

Unfortunately this teaching flies in the face of 'church' contributions.

robindch · 03-02-2021 7:26pm

auspicious wrote: »

Unfortunately this teaching flies in the face of 'church' contributions.

Also calls time on the SSPX and other far-right religious outfits which it seems continue to hold religious services despite public health guidelines, relevant science and essentially every norm of a civilized society.

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/coronavirus-in-ireland-funeral-mass-of-breakaway-catholic-sect-breached-guidelines-amid-spike-in-cases-s5zhdw0bq

The Times wrote:

Public health guidelines were breached during a funeral mass in Dublin over Christmas on the same day that almost 1,000 new cases of Covid-19 were confirmed.

Video viewed by The Times shows a priest placing communion directly into the mouths of mourners at St John’s Church in Monkstown on December 23. The priest and the mourners are not wearing masks during this process, and a one-way system is not obeyed as outlined in the guidelines.

Odhinn · 11-02-2021 11:05pm

[EMAIL="?subject=Could%20Pope%20Francis%20bring%20some%20millennial%20women%20back%20to%20the%20church%3F%20&body=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.thelily.com%2Fcould-pope-francis-bring-some-millennial-women-back-to-the-church%2F"] [/EMAIL]

On Saturday, Pope Francis appointed a French nun, Nathalie Becquart, as one of two undersecretaries to the Synod of Bishops, an advisory body to the pope. It marks the first time a woman will hold a voting position at the Vatican. This follows his Friday appointment of Italian magistrate Catia Summaria as a prosecutor to the Vatican’s Court of Appeals — another first for a woman.

https://www.thelily.com/could-pope-francis-bring-some-millennial-women-back-to-the-church/?utm_campaign=wp_main&utm_medium=social&utm_source=facebook&fbclid=IwAR23G4wg7JV0yGhRlyAZatkoosvwEmG-cphSqNNqFVfemXKPEiy3yq5MxUI

Givin the wimmin a vote? What madness is this?

robindch · 17-02-2021 7:30pm

Time for your subatomic violins again, folks:

Trash-radio-frontman becomes compost

https://www.cnbc.com/2021/02/17/rush-limbaugh-self-proclaimed-doctor-of-democracy-dies-at-age-70.html

Odhinn · 17-02-2021 9:11pm

robindch wrote: »

Time for your subatomic violins again, folks:

Trash-radio-frontman becomes compost

https://www.cnbc.com/2021/02/17/rush-limbaugh-self-proclaimed-doctor-of-democracy-dies-at-age-70.html

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s4DMpgbabKE

Hotblack Desiato · 20-02-2021 2:03pm

https://www.rte.ie/news/ireland/2021/0220/1198269-ireland-archbishops/

Taoiseach Micheál Martin has said he will consider concerns raised by a number of Catholic Archbishops at a meeting about the impact of Covid-19 restrictions on public worship and the upcoming Easter celebrations.

Yesterday, representatives of the Catholic Church - Archbishop Eamon Martin, Archbishop Dermot Farrell, Archbishop Kieran O'Reilly and Archbishop Michael Neary - discussed the Church's desire to return to worship, in particular during the season of Lent and with the approach of Holy Week and Easter.

Fk sake

FF bending us over for the Catholic Church yet again, same old same old :mad:

Odhinn · 20-02-2021 4:39pm

Hotblack Desiato wrote: »

https://www.rte.ie/news/ireland/2021/0220/1198269-ireland-archbishops/

Fk sake

FF bending us over for the Catholic Church yet again, same old same old :mad:

...and if they do allow catholic services back, they'll have to allow the protestants, Jews, orthodox and muslims in as well.

Hotblack Desiato · 20-02-2021 10:05pm

They'd find it easy to ignore if only the minority religions were lobbying, but once the RCC gets going FF seem to feel compelled to kowtow to it

I would comment too about the ongoing mother and baby homes clusterfúck, but tbh I'm worn down by it. It's hard to maintain a level of outrage for such a long time. But what happened and what's been covered up in the so-called investigation are a complete and total outrage. Govt policy seems to be to delay, deny and hush up and keep doing it until anyone who could possibly be prosecuted is dead, and fúck the victims and the adopted too, who still have no legal right to know their true origins.

Odhinn · 21-02-2021 10:27pm

Cork Nuns at it again

A pair of nuns who have so far raised over €77,000 in crowdfunding after being ordered to leave a site in West Cork broke Covid guidelines to attend an exorcism of the Dáil before Christmas.
Mother Irene Gibson, of a group called the Carmelite Sisters of the Holy Face of Jesus, has been ordered to leave the compound at Corran South near the village of Leap in West Cork by next June.
That followed a 2019 conviction for breaching planning regulations in relation to the premises which she set up as a religious retreat in 2016.
She and her colleague, New Zealander Sr Anne Marie, attended the exorcism on December 8 at a time when inter-county travel was banned.
A video has appeared online which shows the exorcism and a subsequent Mass in Herbert Park.

https://www.irishexaminer.com/news/arid-40231067.html

Hotblack Desiato · 22-02-2021 6:02am

Fools and their money...

Odhinn · 23-02-2021 12:11am

Them Cork nuns strike again

Nuns who breached Covid 19 guidelines to attend an exorcism of the dail have been ordered to remove medicinal claims about an ointment they sell from the internet

http://cf.broadsheet.ie/wp-content/uploads/2021/02/ie230221Page1.jpg

no edit - hit the wrong button. Apologies Odhinn

Bannasidhe · 23-02-2021 2:12pm

Odhinn wrote: »

Them Cork nuns strike again

http://cf.broadsheet.ie/wp-content/uploads/2021/02/ie230221Page1.jpg

no edit - hit the wrong button. Apologies Odhinn

We keep trying to export them but feckers get deported back to Cork.

Blake Creedon of the Examiner did remark there is a 5km limit for exorcising - so at least we got a laugh out of it.

smacl · 23-02-2021 3:28pm

Bannasidhe wrote: »

We keep trying to export them but feckers get deported back to Cork.

Blake Creedon of the Examiner did remark there is a 5km limit for exorcising - so at least we got a laugh out of it.

Just get the upstairs neighbour a decent hoover and problem sorted

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aGb8pMIeY6w

Hotblack Desiato · 23-02-2021 3:44pm

Wonder how recent that photo in the Examiner is, they never used to allow their faces to be shown before, maybe they're doing it now to be "different" :rolleyes:

Hotblack Desiato · 24-02-2021 11:27pm

Satanist appeals for support to take on government after blasphemy prosecution

The heavy-metal singer Nergal, aka Adam Darski, has fallen foul once again of the conservative government in Poland and is appealing a sentence for blasphemy.

Nergal, a self-professed satanist who fronts the band Behemoth, fought a long-running battle with the Polish government over a previous charge of blasphemy; he won that one at trial in 2010. This time he is disputing a fine he received last week for a post on his Instagram account in 2019 that appeared to show him stamping on an image of the Virgin Mary.

He was judged to have blasphemed and penalised 15,000 zloty, or about €3,300; he was also charged a 3,500 zloty, or €775, court fee. The case is now expected to go to a full trial. If Nergal is found guilty he faces up to two years in jail.

The original charge accused the frontman of publicly insulting “the object of Christian religious worship in the form of the person of the Mother of God... thus offending the religious feelings of four people.”

Nergal says it is more than the principle at stake. If he does not appeal his fine, he will have a criminal record and so be unable to tour in many countries, including the United States and Australia. He describes his native country as the “last bastion of fundamentalist Catholic dogma in Europe”.

The 2010 case, which made him a household name in Poland, began three years earlier, when he was prosecuted for tearing up a Bible on stage. In 2012 the European Commission said he was entitled to offend people. In 2017 he was again prosecuted, for subverting the two-headed eagle that is the emblem of Poland.

...

“I am being made a criminal for posting a f****ing photograph on Instagram. In Ireland you have been through all this before, but now you are a secular state. Now I give Ireland as an example of what Poland should follow in order to evolve.”

Yes we did get rid of our blasphemy law - ridiculously recently - but we are still far from being a secular state alas.

Edit: He's started a GoFundMe for his legal costs:
https://www.gofundme.com/f/ordo-blasfemia

Odhinn · 03-03-2021 9:51pm

careful now.......

(CNN)The Church of Cyprus has called for the country's official entry to the Eurovision Song Contest to be withdrawn, arguing that it promotes devil-worship.

Greek singer Elena Tsagrinou is due to represent the island nation in Rotterdam in May with the dance-y pop song "El Diablo." She rose to fame in 2009, making to the semifinal of "Greece's Got Talent" aged just 14.

https://edition.cnn.com/2021/03/03/europe/eurovision-cyprus-satanic-scli-intl/index.html

Hotblack Desiato · 09-03-2021 1:02pm

https://theupsidedownworld.com/2016/12/25/dont-believe-everything-his-enemies-speak-about-him/

This letter was published in October 1935 issue of the evangelical magazine Moody Monthly (what a weird name...)

Hotblack Desiato · 10-03-2021 1:58am

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/social-affairs/taoiseach-surprised-by-catholic-bishops-plea-on-covid-rules-1.4505654

In a move met with “surprise” by Taoiseach Micheál Martin, the bishops requested an immediate increase in the number of people permitted at funerals and a return to regular church services once Level 5 restrictions begin to ease.

In a statement on Tuesday, the bishops noted the Taoiseach met the four Catholic Archbishops - Eamon Martin of Armagh, Dermot Farrell of Dublin, Kieran O’Reilly of Cashel and Emly, and Michael Neary of Tuam - on February 19th.

“Despite assurances from the Taoiseach last month that the concerns expressed by the Archbishops would be given serious consideration, we note with disappointment that none of the issues raised has been responded to.”

They seem to equate "consideration" with "getting the outcome we want"

“For people of faith not to be free to worship until regulations return to Level 2, whilst many other restrictions are eased, is seen as particularly distressing and unjust.”

Fecking irrelevant as we are at level 5 and it feels a long way off 4 never mind 3... and they are complaining about 2!

They added: “We encourage Catholics to make their views on these issues known to their own TDs and local representatives.”

Talk to the hand. The virus isn't going to be wished away by the lobbying of catholics or publicans or anyone else.

Peregrinus · 10-03-2021 3:49am

Hotblack Desiato wrote: »

This letter was published in October 1935 issue of the evangelical magazine Moody Monthly (what a weird name...)

So called because it was published by the Moody Bible Institute, founded by DL Moody in 1886 to train lay preachers, under the name of the "Chicago Evangelisation Society" and renamed in Moody's honour after his death in 1899. The magazine survived until 2003; the Institute still exists.

It never been the most, um, progressive of institutions, as the letter suggests. For a long time it refused to accept any public funding available to it as an institute of higher education, because this came with obligations such as not practising sex discrimination. Financial pressures made it imperative to accept federal money in 2012, and they were shortly afterwards sued by female students were rejected from their (at the time) male-only pastoral ministry degree course. It was only in 2016 that the course was opened to women.

PopePalpatine · 10-03-2021 10:44pm

So, how's Tanzania's stand against COVID going?

Oh dear.

Bannasidhe · 11-03-2021 11:02am

Hotblack Desiato wrote: »

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/social-affairs/taoiseach-surprised-by-catholic-bishops-plea-on-covid-rules-1.4505654

They seem to equate "consideration" with "getting the outcome we want"

.

Hmmmm... Demands to allow more people at funerals has the potential of leading to more funerals....

Five people contracted Covid-19 at a funeral attended by two positive cases, and one-third of staff then had to self-isolate at the restaurant where the post-burial meal took place.

The case was one of several given by HSE public health officials at a briefing on Thursday.

In one instance, one single case led to 60 others, according to public health doctor Una Fallon, who is based in the midlands.

In the funeral cluster, a son and then his father, who worked with him, tested positive. When a family member died, they attended the funeral against guidelines, and five other attendees then tested positive. The funeral party then attended a nearby restaurant for a meal, after which one-third of staff there were deemed close contacts and had to self-isolate.

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/health/covid-19-infections-from-funeral-led-to-a-third-of-one-restaurant-s-staff-self-isolating-1.4369704

Funeral directors are appealing for people to keep ceremonies to a minimum to stop the spread of Covid-19.

It comes in the wake of remarks made by the Chief Medical Officer Dr Tony Holohan, who identified funerals as one of the areas where cases are emerging.

Despite some positive trends last week, cases have started to creep up again this week, casting some doubt over whether the country will exit level 5 restrictions as planned in the coming weeks.

A spokesperson for the Irish Association of Funeral Directors has said that it was people “turning up for funerals” and not adhering to guidelines who were leading to an increase of Covid cases connected to funerals.

https://www.irishexaminer.com/news/arid-40084388.html

If one was cynical one might develop the view that a certain organisation that generates a bit of cash flow from funerals might have a financial stake in more funerals and therefore not be an honest broker here.
Even more so it that organisation has serious form for amoral money grasping activities.

Timberrrrrrrr · 12-03-2021 12:27am

Dunno if it's been.posted before but seen this for the first time and thought I would share

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GoYyiNRtMEE

Pawwed Rig · 12-03-2021 9:19am

Bannasidhe wrote: »

If one was cynical one might develop the view that a certain organisation that generates a bit of cash flow from funerals might have a financial stake in more funerals and therefore not be an honest broker here.
Even more so it that organisation has serious form for amoral money grasping activities.

Everyone will need their services at some stage. They might get a few extra this year but that will be reflected in an identical drop off in subsequent years

Bannasidhe · 12-03-2021 9:57am

Pawwed Rig wrote: »

Everyone will need their services at some stage. They might get a few extra this year but that will be reflected in an identical drop off in subsequent years

Ah! But there could also be a baby boom a coming!

Peregrinus · 12-03-2021 10:21am

Which, these days, doesn't necessarily translate into a baptism boom.

(But, yeah, the notion that the churches' desire to see funeral restrictions relaxed is driven by revenue considerations is amusing, but silly. They get the same funeral offering for a funeral with 10 people at it as they do for a funeral with 500. The people who lose out here are the undertakers, the florists and the hospitality industry.)

Bannasidhe · 12-03-2021 10:55am

Peregrinus wrote: »

Which, these days, doesn't necessarily translate into a baptism boom.

(But, yeah, the notion that the churches' desire to see funeral restrictions relaxed is driven by revenue considerations is amusing, but silly. They get the same funeral offering for a funeral with 10 people at it as they do for a funeral with 500. The people who lose out here are the undertakers, the florists and the hospitality industry.)

I did think it was obvious I was being facetious.

The Hobby Horses of Belief (and assorted hazards)

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