The Hobby Horses of Belief (and assorted hazards)

robindch

Bannasidhe wrote: »

Ah! But there could also be a baby boom a coming!

If couples haven't managed to procreate during last year's longueurs, I'm having a hard time wondering what could persuade them.

robindch

Next Friday, Knock is becoming even more holy.

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/social-affairs/religion-and-beliefs/pope-francis-set-to-give-knock-shrine-international-status-1.4507858

Irish Times wrote:

Pope Francis is set to give Knock shrine a new and unique status next week. The Co Mayo site will be recognised as an International Marian and Eucharistic Shrine next Friday, the Feast of St Joseph. This comes after the Archbishop of Tuam Michael Neary petitioned the Holy See to designate Knock as an International Shrine. The Pope will deliver a special message via video link during a virtual mass, which will be held at 7.30pm on March 19th

The Mass will be celebrated by Archbishop Neary and concelebrated by Fr Richard Gibbons, parish priest and rector of Knock shrine. On August 21st, 1879, 15 people claimed to have seen an apparition on the gable wall of Knock church. They said Mary, St Joseph and St John the Evangelist were seen standing together. The witnesses stood in front of the apparition for two hours in the pouring rain, reciting the rosary. Pope Francis previously visited Knock Shrine in 2018 as part of the World Meeting of Families.

“We are truly grateful for this recognition from Pope Francis... which recognises Knock on an international level in terms of its special status as Marian and Eucharistic Shrine,” said Fr Gibbons. “I wish to sincerely thank Archbishop Rino Fisichella, President of the Pontifical Council for the Promotion of the New Evangelisation and Archbishop Michael Neary, Archbishop of Tuam, without whom this would not be possible.

“This is an historic milestone.”

The Historic Milestone of Clonrichert, no doubt.

Hotblack Desiato

Pawwed Rig wrote: »

Everyone will need their services at some stage.

I certainly won't be availing of their services when I die, tyvm :P


Somewhat as an aside, The White Hag craft brewery are releasing a special beer box offer and are holding a Fr Ted online quiz on Mar 17th hosted by none other than Fr. Damo!

https://www.thewhitehag.com/product/so-its-a-game-night-then-father/

Peregrinus

Bannasidhe wrote: »

I did think it was obvious I was being facetious.

It was.

Hotblack Desiato

Happy we'd-all-have-been-better-off-if-that-fúcker-had-never-set-foot-here day.

Hotblack Desiato

Peregrinus wrote: »

Which, these days, doesn't necessarily translate into a baptism boom.

Well the lack of requirement for baptism to boost your child up the admissions list in 90% of primary schools has got to have an effect...

They get the same funeral offering for a funeral with 10 people at it as they do for a funeral with 500. The people who lose out here are the undertakers, the florists and the hospitality industry.)

The undertakers still get paid the same - well, they get to hire out fewer limos but that's about it. Feb 2020 we held out against the limos we didn't want and didn't need, even on the morning there was the "are you sure you don't want..." Ehh, no, the graveyard is a couple of miles away and we all have our own cars. And my late mother hated extravagance and showiness.

Florists - perhaps a reduction in the amount of dead plant material brought to graveyards over the last year, but at funerals themselves these days most people restrain it, it is an awful waste. "Family flowers only, donations to..."

Hospitality industry are losing out yes, as they are in every other aspect of their business unfortunately.

Sooo... that leaves the church

We paid a fee via the undertaker. I don't know if on top of that there's generally a practice of 'tipping' but it would not surprise me at all if at the "hundreds of people funerals" there were not folded up fiftys thrust into the priest's hand. If there were, it would almost be rude to refuse...

Bannasidhe

Hotblack Desiato wrote: »

We paid a fee via the undertaker. I don't know if on top of that there's generally a practice of 'tipping' but it would not surprise me at all if at the "hundreds of people funerals" there were not folded up fiftys thrust into the priest's hand. If there were, it would almost be rude to refuse...

Oct 2019 we had to pay the priest separately. Can't remember how much exactly as my bother paid them but it was in the hundreds and he commented he thought it was a bit steep for half an hour and some water flinging. He's lived in Switzerland over 40 years so is constantly 'surprised' by what is considered normal in Ireland.

Hotblack Desiato

There again, presumably your 'bother' is familiar with the church tax situation over there!

My brother in law was living over there for a few years until they caught up with him, they were looking for thousands! Had to exercise a rapid opt-out, dunno if they still got the arrears though.

Hotblack Desiato

Church and Covid: There is a whole ecclesiastical world which is disappearing

This is the background to the next step we took in March 2020 when not only church buildings closed, but we also had to close our homes to any outsiders. Physically isolated, we decided to move our Eucharistic celebrations online. Zoom enabled these gatherings.

...

The issue of the offertory and consecration of the bread and wine of course had to be dealt with. From a practical point of view, each person or couple has some bread and wine (or water when wine is not possible to procure) on a table in front of them before their screen.

These gifts are offered and consecrated through a communal prayer and then we receive Communion - the body and blood of Christ.

The extended hands over the elements are those of the people of God, separated by often huge physical distances, sometimes across continents. And yet the belief which sustains us and gives us the necessary daring is our belief in the reality of the presence of the Holy Spirit, so that there is truly an epiclesis at the heart of our celebrations.

We are gathered as the body of Christ and we receive the body of Christ. Though many and scattered across the face of the earth, we are one. We believe that the action of the Holy Spirit transcends space.

...

There is a whole ecclesiastical world which is increasingly disappearing. While this pandemic will, in time, be over, it will have contributed to some lasting changes which were already under way. It seems to me that for some Christians the experience of these Eucharistic celebrations will have effected a breakthrough and empowered them as a priestly people.

Participating in a Zoom Eucharist is a bit like walking on water. We have left the solid ground of our long-established theological frameworks, with its sense of safety, and find ourselves at large, sustained by the one who calls us to cross over to another shore.

Soline Humbert is a spiritual director and a member of We Are Church Ireland.

So in effect a catholic mass with a DIY consecration? Is that heresy or sacrilege? :eek::pac:

Could be one way of solving the priest shortage in future!

Bannasidhe

Hotblack Desiato wrote: »

There again, presumably your 'bother' is familiar with the church tax situation over there!

My brother in law was living over there for a few years until they caught up with him, they were looking for thousands! Had to exercise a rapid opt-out, dunno if they still got the arrears though.

Not sure why you put brother in inverted commas - he's just my brother. 5 1/2 years older than me.


But yes, he is very aware of all taxes Swiss and Irish due to he being Swiss by naturalisation and Irish by birth.
He personally paids no church tax as he is not a declared member of a religion however in Valais churches are funded out of municipal taxes so he kinda does.


If I had my way I would let religions all organise their own fundraising - not a cent or centime from either Local Authorities or central government.


Schools with a religious ethos - sure thing. Off you go and build them and fund them. Ditto hospitals.

Hotblack Desiato

It says "bother" - I thought it was a Freudian slip, but probably just a very overzealous auto-correct.

Anyway I got these through the door 3 weeks ago and meant to post it before now. Not the first tine we've got tracts through the door, but personally addressed and posted? (although, not by our name, that would freak us out ), handwritten? and in Irish as well as English? I feel sorry for someone who would think that this was a useful way to spend a considerable amount of time and a not inconsiderable amount of money either (presumably it's not just us!)

Hotblack Desiato

Hotblack Desiato

All I take from that letter is what a monstrous cnut God must be if he can end the suffering of billions of people whenever he wants and chooses not to do so, but instead keeps them dangling like a mouse in the paws of a cat wating for the Mouse God to provide deliverance...

What's really odd about posting these (i.e. via An Post at a euro a pop, not the internet sense of the word 'posting') is that the Kingdom Hall is only a few minutes' walk away and they've stuffed tracts through the letterbox before. (as is a pretty big Mormon church, but apart from a couple of very polite preppy boys asking me at the pedestrian crossing whether I knew Jesus while I waited for my saviour to appear in the form of the green man, they've never bothered [brothered?] me in any way.)

robindch

Hotblack Desiato wrote: »

Happy we'd-all-have-been-better-off-if-that-fúcker-had-never-set-foot-here day.

And the bollix wasn't even catholic:

Ruth Patterson: 'St Patrick was a Protestant'

https://www.irishnews.com/news/northernirelandnews/2016/01/21/news/ruth-patterson-st-patrick-was-a-protestant--389541/

Irish News, 2016 wrote:

High-profile unionist councillor Ruth Patterson has claimed St Patrick was a Protestant. The former DUP politician made the bizarre claim during an interview yesterday on BBC Radio Ulster's Talkback programme.

Criticising youths draped in tricolours on St Patrick's Day, the Belfast councillor said: "At the end of the day the tricolour has nothing to do with St Patrick. St Patrick himself was a former Protestant."

Presenter William Crawley pointed out that St Patrick couldn't have been a Protestant as he lived long before the Reformation, "a thousand years before Protestants existed".

Ms Patterson said: "Yes. I see where you're coming from, certainly I see him as having been a former Protestant."

Hotblack Desiato

They really need to go for broke here and claim that Jesus was a Protestant. Or maybe even aul' Jahweh himself.

We should've had a tougher immigration policy 1600 years ago :pac:

Bannasidhe

Hotblack Desiato wrote: »

It says "bother" - I thought it was a Freudian slip, but probably just a very overzealous auto-correct.

Ha! So it does. Most likely the result of me not wearing my seeing eye glasses for the middle aged - tho it could be Freudian as he's very Swissish. Whole family has eye strain from rolling their eyes as he launches off into another "well in Switzerland..."

Bannasidhe

robindch wrote: »

And the bollix wasn't even catholic:

Ruth Patterson: 'St Patrick was a Protestant'

https://www.irishnews.com/news/northernirelandnews/2016/01/21/news/ruth-patterson-st-patrick-was-a-protestant--389541/

Meh, I could make the argument as a sort of "let's try and spin any old bollax" mind exercise. I'm familiar enough with Patrick's/Luther's/Calvin's/Knox's writings that I could probably do a fair job.


And sure the Gaelic Irish church spent most of it's time arguing with Rome and insisting the Vatican was doing it wrong - which coincidentally stopped around the same time as the Vatican approved Norman conquest...

Odhinn

When you hear the words "Family values" its seldom in connection with anything good.

Turkey has abandoned an international accord designed to protect women, drawing protests from campaigners.


It signed the Council of Europe's convention 10 years ago at its launch in the Turkish city of Istanbul.


The pact seeks to prevent, prosecute and eliminate domestic violence.


But Turkish conservatives argue its principles of gender equality and non-discrimination on grounds of sexual orientation undermine family values and promote homosexuality.

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-56467689

Hotblack Desiato

When they say "family values" they mean "families just like my one (was, before the newspapers got hold of the scandal)"

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=REpNTi-9oRQ

PopePalpatine

PopePalpatine wrote: »

So, how's Tanzania's stand against COVID going?

Oh dear.

Here, have an update on Magufuli.

Igotadose

Looks like the charges against the priest and the two dominatrixes who made the news last year in New Orleans for a threesome on the church altar in full public view, have been reduced: https://www.nola.com/news/crime_police/article_d936a5ba-88c9-11eb-bc74-63a302e79430.html

Priest was since given the boot, the old altar burned a new one consecrated per https://nypost.com/2021/03/22/priest-dominatrices-hit-with-vandalism-charges-for-altar-threesome/

Bannasidhe

Igotadose wrote: »

the old altar burned a new one consecrated

That's the RCC for ya - if they don't recycle it they burn it. No middle ground.

Hotblack Desiato

Vandalism? It's still a BS charge

robindch

Number of successful cases brought by freemen on the land - still holding steady at zero:

Je m'appelle Olivier, de la famille 'Alary' et j'ai une âme!

https://www.courts.ie/viewer/pdf/d40200b6-4393-477f-86be-227b3b7a0ea6/2021_IECA_84%20(Unapproved).pdf/pdf

Hotblack Desiato

Gardaí set checkpoints near church as priest says Mass in breach of Covid rules

Mass ban is ‘sectarianism’ and anti-Catholic Church, Fr PJ Hughes of Mullahoran says


Garda checkpoints were erected close to Our Lady of Lourdes Church in Mullahoran, Co Cavan, on Sunday as parish priest Fr PJ Hughes said Mass in defiance of the Covid-19 regulations.

The 10am mass was delayed for about 20 minutes with many locals detained at the three Garda checkpoints erected on the roads into the church, which is in a rural part of the parish.

Fr Hughes said he was furious having got a call from a local man who was prevented from getting to the church.

“The guards attacked me and accused me of spreading the virus,” he claimed beforehand.

“A guard told me that I was putting the lives of elderly people at risk. It’s a sad day that three Garda cars are circling around this church. Have they nothing else to do? God help us.

“It is our faith that brings us here and they told me that I wasn’t reading the statistics and didn’t know what was going on. I told them I did not accept the negative message being poured out by RTÉ. It’s not fair.

“This is sectarianism. This is against our faith. It’s a sectarian act against our Catholic Church encouraged by the Government who don’t believe in God anymore.”

Fr Hughes likened the Covid-19 Level 5 restrictions – which mean all religious services, other than funerals, can be held online only – to the penal laws and Oliver Cromwell. He admitted he had “no friends in the Church” and the bishops did not want him saying Mass.

Twenty people turned up for the Palm Sunday service and they were well spaced out in the church where every second pew was roped off.

During his homily, Fr Hughes told them to turn off the news and focus on the events of Holy Week.

“Our faith in God is being challenged by statistics and by so many people who want us to live according to their creed,” he said.

“It is a challenge to somehow balance our faith with everything else that is going on in the world. I encourage people to turn off the television, turn off the radios and any negative news.

“Negativity does not fit along with faith. There is no hope in negative news. We are being destroyed.”

Fr Hughes wore a mask while distributing Communion. Some of the congregation wore masks too.

Sheila McManus from Drumshanbo, Co Leitrim, turned up a half-hour early for Mass with some palm branches to be blessed. “It is our constitutional right to go to Mass. It is lovely how he leaves everything up to the people and leaves the church open for them.”

James Ryan from Donamon, Co Roscommon, who attended with his wife, Anne, said: “Jesus told me that I can go to Mass. Jesus Christ will protect me. Gardaí won’t protect me . They are stopping good honest people going to Mass. Priests have a vow to Jesus Christ first and foremost not to the bishop.”

A Garda car turned up to the church afterwards. One local man, who declined to give his name, remonstrated with two gardaí in the car and said he could not get to Mass.

“A man of the cloth is not to be interfered with. It’s wrong. The first person you’ll want is the priest who baptised them and the last person you’ll want on your death bed is a priest,”he told them.

“That church can hold 500 people. It’s the staple of the community. We have a Constitution in this country and our constitutional rights are being denied by the forces of law and order. They are laughing at us.”

Fr Hughes has already been fined €500 for hosting an illegal gathering, but he said he will not pay it.

Several people had offered to pay it for him, but he has declined, stating he had done nothing wrong and a Mass is not an illegal gathering.

Fr Hughes said he had asked for “right-wing groups” to stay away from his Mass.

At the end of the Mass, a prominent member of the National Party turned up. He said he had been detained at a checkpoint and prevented from attending the service.

smacl

Interesting that Fr Hughes has described lockdown restrictions on mass attendance thus;

"This is sectarianism. This is against our faith. It’s a sectarian act against our Catholic Church encouraged by the Government who don’t believe in God anymore."

I wouldn't consider the above statement even vaguely true as the same restrictions hold true for CofI and other churches, mosques, synagogues, etc...

It really is all about self interest from what I can see, displaying contemptuous disregard for the broader community and those at more severe risk. Also worth remembering weekly mass attendance was at 35% when last measured. While no doubt higher in small rural communities, the numbers willing to attend mass against current restrictions is also no doubt considerably lower. As such, I'd personally consider this to be dangerous anti-social behaviour which should be dealt with on that basis.

"I encourage people to turn off the television, turn off the radios and any negative news."

Might as well encourage them to drink some kool-aid while they're at it.

robindch

The excellent Fr Hughes could do worse than familiarize himself with Matthew 6:5-6 - as edited to fit within 160 characters:

Matthew 5:5-6 wrote:

When you pray, be not like the hypocrites who pray in public to be seen. They have received their reward. When you pray, go to your room, close the door and pray to your Father, who is unseen. Then your Father, who sees what is done in secret, will reward you.

Hotblack Desiato

Whisper it but there have been videos on social media of much larger gatherings at mosques and the Gardai appear to have no interest. If these rules should apply (and I believe that at the moment, they should) then they must be applied to everyone.

smacl

Hotblack Desiato wrote: »

Whisper it but there have been videos on social media of much larger gatherings at mosques and the Gardai appear to have no interest. If these rules should apply (and I believe that at the moment, they should) then they must be applied to everyone.

I've heard rumours about that but nothing substantial. I'd like to see some evidence to establish the veracity of the rumours, could be legit but could also be deflection tactics.

Peregrinus

I'm with smacl. "Whispers on social media" about anything to do with mosques should be read through the most sceptically sceptic lens.