Remote working public servants not entitled to take flexi time.

wally1990 · 21-10-2020 9:05pm

horsebox7 wrote: »

I believe working from home should not be penalised.

But unfortunately or fortunately working from home is creating a new way of working and benefits that were previously part of employment packages

If a job went in an office for Dublin let's say software development for 60k(just an example

Then that is the salary on offer to entice the individual to work on site in Dublin and commute to to/within Dublin for this role and live in Dublin OR bear the commute cost and time to Dublin

Now, if the work can be done remotely Eg from back arse of kerry, then should 60k still be the package on the table??

People may say oh yes,
Because its the same job

But no, salaries and working conditions are offered on the conditions and requirements of the role

My point??

Well now that people can work from home, thus reducing commutes means something has got to give

Employees cant have it each and every way

Flexi time maybe the '' benefit '' that is now removed since there is now no commute Involved

It's not that '' home working '' is being penalised

This isn't an attack on home working or YOU

The conditions and reality of how the role and location is performed has changed and with that will Change the '' benefits ''

Sultan of Bling · 21-10-2020 9:05pm

marty whelan wrote:

You gave away the wind up with this comment. I'm a civil servant btw.

Agree, troll alert I reckon.

horsebox7 · 21-10-2020 9:10pm

I very much believe as an Irish citizen that we are all in this together and l am entitled to my opinion on this. I don't believe it is helpful to pit sectors against one another. All sectors are integral to our society and our economy. All l ask for is equality and for remote working staff not to be penalised.

Covidhaveago · 21-10-2020 9:11pm

No issues here with taking of flexi leave not being allowed while WFH. Most of my direct reports have chosen to take barely any annual leave since lockdown began, imagine its something similar same across the CS.

horsebox7 · 21-10-2020 9:11pm

Sultan of Bling wrote: »

Agree, troll alert I reckon.

Unfair comment

FourFourRED · 21-10-2020 9:16pm

horsebox7 wrote: »

Unfair comment

Unfair that you’re posting on Boards on taxpayers time.

relax carry on · 21-10-2020 9:25pm

horsebox7 wrote: »

I very much believe as an Irish citizen that we are all in this together and l am entitled to my opinion on this. I don't believe it is helpful to pit sectors against one another. All sectors are integral to our society and our economy. All l ask for is equality and for remote working staff not to be penalised.

Again, what part of the DPER guidelines do you believe is punishing you? Remote workers have more flexibility than those few who are onsite due to business needs or equipment issues. The flexibility of the remote worker is balanced by allowing those who are back on site and working per the DPER guidelines access to Flexi.

Samuel T. Cogley · 21-10-2020 9:25pm

TBH I've run out of box sets and even got bored of getting a grip.

siblers · 21-10-2020 9:31pm

Addle wrote: »

You don’t have to commute, don’t have to take time off for home related absences. You can’t have it every way.

What about if you need time off for school collections or drop offs? Have a medical appointment? Or if you have no one to mind your child etc for part of the day. Just because you work from home doesn't mean you have no excuse not to be at work

21-10-2020 9:32pm

horsebox7 wrote: »

We're all in this together.

You’re taking the piss, right?

MrMusician18 · 21-10-2020 9:42pm

Flexi is not meant to be a reward. You get flexi hours when you have to stay late to do work that cannot be put off. I don't believe is officially permitted to stay late to build hours, but I could stand corrected on that.

In theory you should be able to justify having flexi available with WfH as you could put in long hours at home. In practice, it would be open for abuse.

horsebox7 · 21-10-2020 9:45pm

FourFourFM wrote: »

Unfair that you’re posting on Boards on taxpayers time.

Its 9pm

horsebox7 · 21-10-2020 9:46pm

Strawberry Milkshake wrote: »

You’re taking the piss, right?

Rude

horsebox7 · 21-10-2020 9:47pm

siblers wrote: »

What about if you need time off for school collections or drop offs? Have a medical appointment? Or if you have no one to mind your child etc for part of the day. Just because you work from home doesn't mean you have no excuse not to be at work

Valid point

horsebox7 · 21-10-2020 9:48pm

phildub wrote: »

What about equality for people who want to be safe in their homes but have to risk their health to go to the office, is your heart bleeding for them as much as is it for yourself. There are no winners in this situation we are fighting a virus that has taken over the word, you say we are all in this together but that is not true and if it was you would stop your childish whining about being penalized and comments being unfair and work being unfair and the world being unfair. Do your part now and do it with some God dam dignity man!

Invalid point

lawred2 · 21-10-2020 9:49pm

horsebox7 wrote: »

Due to unprecedented cv19 arrangements public servants including those working in the local authority sector are not entitled to take flexi leave while those who are office based are entitled to take flexi leave which is unfair.

What's flexi leave exactly?

StevenToast · 21-10-2020 9:50pm

OP....you had us going there for a while...i even took the bait!!!!

Well played sir....

You can close the thread now mods...

horsebox7 · 21-10-2020 9:50pm

relax carry on wrote: »

Again, what part of the DPER guidelines do you believe is punishing you? Remote workers have more flexibility than those few who are onsite due to business needs or equipment issues. The flexibility of the remote worker is balanced by allowing those who are back on site and working per the DPER guidelines access to Flexi.

Remote and office staff should work under same conditions l believe.

FourFourRED · 21-10-2020 9:50pm

horsebox7 wrote: »

Its 9pm

I mean in general. Most of you lot in the public service offices didn’t do a tap of work when you were in the office anyway, can only imagine the amount of laziness now that you’re WFH - and looking for Flexi-Time on top of it. Hilarious.

horsebox7 · 21-10-2020 9:51pm

FourFourFM wrote: »

I mean in general. Most of you lot in the public service offices didn’t do a tap of work when you were in the office anyway, can only imagine the amount of laziness now that you’re WFH - and looking for Flexi-Time on top of it. Hilarious.

Rubbish

horsebox7 · 21-10-2020 9:51pm

phildub wrote: »

Its not invalid, it's just not what you want to hear, there's a difference

No its invalid

horsebox7 · 21-10-2020 9:52pm

StevenToast wrote: »

OP....you had us going there for a while...i even took the bait!!!!

Well played sir....

You can close the thread now mods...

No

horsebox7 · 21-10-2020 9:54pm

phildub wrote: »

How can they possibly work under the same conditions when you are not expected to travel for work, like honestly if I didn't see your history of whiney threads I would Definitely think you are a troll. If you want flexi time go work in the office or else just stopping whining

Rather angry comment.

horsebox7 · 21-10-2020 9:56pm

phildub wrote: »

I dont think so

It is

phildub · 21-10-2020 9:58pm

horsebox7 wrote: »

It is

I wrote it, its not angry you have misinterpreted my tone.

I'm not.sure why you started this thread if your not prepared to listen to people who don't agree with you. You could have had this conversation to yourself on your couch

hamburgham · 21-10-2020 10:03pm

horsebox7 wrote: »

Rubbish.

Thousands of non office based PS staff who due to the nature of their work, cannot perform their jobs at home. Still on full pay. What else are they doing other than sitting back with their feet up?

Divisadero · 21-10-2020 10:06pm

FourFourFM wrote: »

I mean in general. Most of you lot in the public service offices didn’t do a tap of work when you were in the office anyway, can only imagine the amount of laziness now that you’re WFH - and looking for Flexi-Time on top of it. Hilarious.

True it's much easier to avoid work at home. It was difficult (though not impossible) to get away with smoking a joint whilst soaking my feet in a foot spa in the office. It's far more relaxing from home. Plus I can burn incense sticks and candles without the fire warden getting on my case. Though it still sucks when I doze off and wake up to my feet soaking in cold water.

In fact I might start a thread complaining about my awful employment conditions when the OP is finished whining on this one. Thanks for the idea and support. "We're all in this together".

hamburgham · 21-10-2020 10:08pm

Drifter50 wrote: »

But we`re not are we ?
You sit there with salary, pension and conditions intact and up to 1 million people will be unemployed tonight.

Hardly a level playing pitch and while it may not be your fault the government is pitching private sector versus public sector now

How the F do they think we are going to survive on €350 .

No mention of payment breaks yet, all we hear is contact your bank directly. I did that yesterday and they told me they have no guidelines yet

And a 2% pay increase this month, totally swept under the carpet by the media.

pew · 21-10-2020 10:19pm

hamburgham wrote: »

And a 2% pay increase this month, totally swept under the carpet by the media.

Pay restoration not a pay rise.

An Ri rua · 21-10-2020 10:26pm

hamburgham wrote: »

And a 2% pay increase this month, totally swept under the carpet by the media.

You're new to this obviously. Full of vim and vigour but no substance to your BS. A quick scan of Google would show that you are misleading even yourself.

Do you think non payment of pay restoration under the Public Service Stability Agreement would have gone down well with nurses, Gardaí, Defence Forces, teachers and yes even humble civil servants who, surprisingly work away in the background ensuring all of the others listed can perform their duties?

Do you think, alternatively, that they should have cherry picked only frontline workers and be damned with collective pay agreements?

Alternatively, do you think at all??

Posh Dave · 21-10-2020 10:34pm

An Ri rua wrote: »

You're new to this obviously. Full of vim and vigour but no substance to your BS. A quick scan of Google would show that you are misleading even yourself.

Do you think non payment of pay restoration under the Public Service Stability Agreement would have gone down well with nurses, Gardaí, Defence Forces, teachers and yes even humble civil servants who, surprisingly work away in the background ensuring all of the others listed can perform their duties?

Do you think, alternatively, that they should have cherry picked only frontline workers and be damned with collective pay agreements?

Alternatively, do you think at all??

Yes definitely

lawred2 · 21-10-2020 11:03pm

Imagine griping about someone getting a measly 2% increase

gmisk · 21-10-2020 11:19pm

lawred2 wrote: »

What's flexi leave exactly?

You can build up time on your clock (needs to be full or halfday) and take an extra day/halfday of leave (one a month a long time ago I think it was 1.5 days max a month).
It is only available in certain organisations. It is also only available at certain grades (HEO and below I think?)
I am an AP for example so don't have the option.

Chaos Black · 21-10-2020 11:32pm

Whilst I would say the OP is on the wind up and don't condone it.

I would hesitantly add that as a CS in an area with increased workload due to COVID, I am under constant pressure and working more then ever. A lot of unpaid overtime, no flexitime and extra responsibility. I am most weeks working the equivalent of an extra day each week. I have done it up to now and continue to without complaint as I understand we are in an extreme event. However the mix of long hours, pressure and little annual leave is not sustainable forever either and requires additional resourcing or some other adjustment in my opinion if this is the same for 2021.

Not all Civil servants are in the same situation, it varies by department and individual sections so only speaking for myself here.

Sultan of Bling · 21-10-2020 11:38pm

hamburgham wrote:

And a 2% pay increase this month, totally swept under the carpet by the media.

How did you hear about it then?

marty whelan · 21-10-2020 11:42pm

Chaos Black wrote: »

Whilst I would say the OP is on the wind up and don't condone it.

I would hesitantly add that as a CS in an area with increased workload due to COVID, I am under constant pressure and working more then ever. A lot of unpaid overtime, no flexitime and extra responsibility. I am most weeks working the equivalent of an extra day each week. I have done it up to now and continue to without complaint as I understand we are in an extreme event. However the mix of long hours, pressure and little annual leave is not sustainable forever either and requires additional resourcing or some other adjustment in my opinion if this is the same for 2021.

Not all Civil servants are in the same situation, it varies by department and individual sections so only speaking for myself here.

I'm in the same boat as you regarding working a day a week extra, the thought of someone complaining about not getting flexitime while working from home has dumbfounded me. I'd love it. I wonder how many extra hours horsebox works a week

noodler · 21-10-2020 11:46pm

I agree this can be solved by line managers who can actually tell who had to do extra hours for a specific task.

However, the idea (and being extreme for effect here) that someone could clock in at 8 on their laptop and then click out at 7 and gain an automatic whole halfday out of it without any supervision is not reasonable.

There are alot of time benefits from WfH that outweigh the impact and, as stated, of you really have worked extra hours your Line Manager can sort you out locally.

angel eyes 2012 · 22-10-2020 12:05am

I would be interested to know which Department or Agency Horsebox works in, although every public body has at least one of the entitlement brigade, I've worked with a few and they can be absolutely draining.

Flexi is a privilege and not an entitlement. There have always been staff on core hours that weren't able to avail of flexi. Staff are not taking sick leave since March nor availing of much annual leave so they must be doing ok physically speaking.

My workload has doubled since March due to Covid, for example, I just finished work at 10.30pm this evening, started at 8.00am. To hear someone moaning about the absence of flexi is laughable and really mirrors the opposite of what public sector values represent , in particular, the value of integrity.

Show some resilience and be grateful for what you have, I just hope you don't work in my Department.

Chaos Black · 22-10-2020 12:05am

I agree the across the board trust everyone to WFH on flexi would not work for practical reasons.

My own experience is that line management is aware of the necessary overtime, out of hours work and so on as they are doing the same, but no local arrangements in place. I understand in other places it is different. For clarity I work predominantly from home but have to attend the workplace as needs be from time to time, building no flexi whilst in the physical workplace but then never looked into it either.

Edit: To clarify, I don't have an issue with no flexitime. I would be more concerned that the combination of large amounts of overtime, out of hours work, little leave and increased pressures in some areas in the long term without the same support network of working on an office itself may tilt into an issue in some areas and is something Senior Management will have to stay aware of as we go into next year.

22-10-2020 12:51am

horsebox7 wrote: »

Due to unprecedented cv19 arrangements public servants including those working in the local authority sector are not entitled to take flexi leave while those who are office based are entitled to take flexi leave which is unfair.

OP - Are you being asked to work at set times every day (9:15 to 5:45 with 1hr 15 minute lunch) or have you retained the flexibility to decide what time you start at / finish at and have lunch, once you work up the required hours?

My department is still using the online flexi clock in/out system to record our working hours and core times are still mainly adhered to but outside of that, start / finish / lunch is probably more flexible then it has ever been before.

The only change really is the ability to accrue flexi leave, and to be honest, I'm fine with it. I have probably worked up a few days worth of extra hours over the last six months, but I'm not complaining about it when I no longer have to commute 3 hours a day. I haven't heard a single other complaint about it either.

To be honest, I think suspending it was the right decision, as otherwise its far to open to abuse and would just be something else for civil servants to be bashed about, if they hadn't suspended it.

Dyr · 22-10-2020 12:52am

Hopefully they're still getting their time off to cash their weekly cheque

relax carry on · 22-10-2020 1:31am

Bambi wrote: »

Hopefully they're still getting their time off to cash their weekly cheque

That's been gone for over a decade.

lawred2 · 22-10-2020 9:09am

gmisk wrote: »

You can build up time on your clock (needs to be full or halfday) and take an extra day/halfday of leave (one a month a long time ago I think it was 1.5 days max a month).
It is only available in certain organisations. It is also only available at certain grades (HEO and below I think?)
I am an AP for example so don't have the option.

I can see why that doesn't apply to WFH

gerrybbadd · 22-10-2020 12:41pm

horsebox7 wrote: »

Due to unprecedented cv19 arrangements public servants including those working in the local authority sector are not entitled to take flexi leave while those who are office based are entitled to take flexi leave which is unfair.

Civil Servant here - how is this unfair exactly?

Of course Flexi has been put on hold. As it should be. Work Life balance doesn't even come into it when you're working from home. It's this kind of griping that gives us all a bad rap.

gerrybbadd · 22-10-2020 12:43pm

Bambi wrote: »

Hopefully they're still getting their time off to cash their weekly cheque

Yes, and hopefully we will still get a day off to celebrate The King's birthday too:rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:

AndrewJRenko · 22-10-2020 12:58pm

hamburgham wrote: »

Thousands of non office based PS staff who due to the nature of their work, cannot perform their jobs at home. Still on full pay. What else are they doing other than sitting back with their feet up?

What kind of staff in what organisations are you referring to here?

Aglomerado · 22-10-2020 1:16pm

My flexi is gone since March. I am still recording my time in the system as per instructions. It's balancing out mostly: Some weeks I might put in 36 hours which would mean a deficit, but one or two crazy weeks where I put in 40+ hours due to a deluge of PQs etc. will cancel those out. No set hours but I try to keep normal office hours. Some colleagues make up time at evenings or weekends. I used to always work up at least a day's flexi leave every 4 weeks when I was in the office, but I have no problem losing that working from home; it's too difficult for managers to validate it now.

Tzardine · 22-10-2020 1:23pm

Jesus OP. Get a grip.

You are essentially moaning that you can't get your extra day a month off - when you are at home all the time anyway.

I am in the CS too. We have had it pretty good since March. Pick your battles.

Samuel T. Cogley · 22-10-2020 1:38pm

gerrybbadd wrote: »

Yes, and hopefully we will still get a day off to celebrate The King's birthday too:rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:

I take the 8th of Jan off every year.

Mrs OBumble · 22-10-2020 1:39pm

siblers wrote: »

What about if you need time off for school collections or drop offs? Have a medical appointment? Or if you have no one to mind your child etc for part of the day. Just because you work from home doesn't mean you have no excuse not to be at work

Feel free to take annual leave, like the rest of us have to.

Remote working public servants not entitled to take flexi time.

Comments