Covid-19 likely to be man made

Hmm_Messiah · 17-09-2020 10:17am

lucernarian wrote: »

I cut out the rest, what I reply to here or what your battery life is, or when you condescend to reply, isn't even slightly relevant. […] Why in blazes would anyone in their right mind use a censored . As has been demonstrated consistently throughout 2020, this is a remarkably stable RNA virus at the genomic level and to accept this as a normal run of the mill event in nature without even a decent phylogenetic tree to back it up is blindingly myopic and presumptuous.

Again with the attributing of characteristics to someone you don't know, and without foundation. None of my replies have been condescending in regard to the important task of trying to identify the origin of this virus

And your contribution regarding the knowledge currently held on the virus origin would be interesting but for the fact you are totally missing the point

I responded in this thread because I queried the idea that this level of discourse could seriously be considered a rational, objective , fact-based contribution to current affairs. In addition I then responded to some of the clearly ridiculous statements as if fact such as "most people2 believe it is man made ( which even if true is irrelevant - beliefs do not make facts. )

So you continue to argue with me as if I am denying that the origin of the virus could be manmade; I never said any such thing. I said at this time no one can determine it is or isn't. The CDC said there was nothing to suggest it was man-made.

So I was commenting initially on this thread itself, and then on some of the blatantly sensationalist conspiracy theories. You are talking about the possible origin of the virus - these are different things .

I am not sure why you would take your time to do so in this thread , where there is so much irresponsible commentary with no level of backup to statement of facts . But for the sake of clarity ; you need no longer direct any argument towards me regarding the origin of this virus; I do not, and have not here, disputed anything in that regard.

I posted because I stumbled across the thread, and was curious how many would refute the sensationalism etc. I am surprised that some one with your competence decided my contribution - which was directed at the thread - was more necessary to comment on - rather than the recurring themes that every body knows that the virus was manmade by China, down the road, and they left international flights open so as to destroy the world economies

Yellow_Fern · 17-09-2020 11:30am

Deleted User wrote: »

Fox News “China holds US citizens hostage in virus death trap city”

Fox news is partisan but its usually reliable and fair. The problem is they don't all cover the stories but the ones they do cover are well covered so your hypothical isn't realistic.

mcsean2163 · 17-09-2020 11:32am

lucernarian wrote: »

I feel sorry for Dr Li, but I'd love to understand what the benefit to science was by creating chimeric viruses that posed increased infectious risk in mammals was. That proving an artificial recombination posed a risk to humanity? (well duh) or that it could happen naturally with circulating betacoroniviruses? (Isn't that kind of obvious after influenza's H1N1 example?) There are good reasons why the US NIH imposed a moratorium on these kinds of studies in 2014.

In a contextual sense, gain of function studies will draw skepticism on the wider field of science like a lightning rod when what's being done in a lab then ends up appearing nature in an analogous way. What good does it do go undertake such risky research when it can serve to undermine public faith and funding in pandemic surveillance and prevention?

When you say "loose women", what are you getting at here? Are you comparing the author of the so-called smoking gun paper to a prostitute or am I missing something?!

Gain of function research has been around a long time, e.g.

https://www.nature.com/news/engineered-bat-virus-stirs-debate-over-riskyresearch-1.18787

Can't believe this has been moved to conspiracy theories. She's a respected researcher published in Lancet...

Yellow_Fern · 17-09-2020 11:34am

lucernarian wrote: »

In a contextual sense, gain of function studies will draw skepticism on the wider field of science like a lightning rod when what's being done in a lab then ends up appearing nature in an analogous way. What good does it do go undertake such risky research when it can serve to undermine public faith and funding in pandemic surveillance and prevention?

I dont think Beijing would see it this way

lucernarian wrote: »

When you say "loose women", what are you getting at here? Are you comparing the author of the so-called smoking gun paper to a prostitute or am I missing something?!

Loose women is a tv show that interviewed her.

splashuum · 17-09-2020 12:16pm

Why on earth has this been dumped in the conspiracy thread? It’s literally mainstream news and belongs in current affairs.

r439z5ifwt8soq · 17-09-2020 1:39pm

splashuum wrote: »

Why on earth has this been dumped in the conspiracy thread? It’s literally mainstream news and belongs in current affairs.

The paper itself is questionable in its intentions (funded by what is essentially an anti-china political group) and doesn't actually prove anything regarding it being definitely manmade.

The subject matter is definitely up for discussion though as we can't be fully sure of where it originated

Yellow_Fern · 17-09-2020 4:25pm

Frances Green Antenna wrote: »

The paper itself is questionable in its intentions (funded by what is essentially an anti-china political group) and doesn't actually prove anything regarding it being definitely manmade.

The subject matter is definitely up for discussion though as we can't be fully sure of where it originated

The science should stand on its own merits. When National Economic and Social Council (a social justice quango) or TASC (a social justice lobby) publishes their studies I don't dismiss it as conspiracy theories.

Overheal · 17-09-2020 6:06pm

splashuum wrote: »

Why on earth has this been dumped in the conspiracy thread? It’s literally mainstream news and belongs in current affairs.

From the Original Post:

splashuum wrote: »

Dr. Yan has since had to flee to the US in fear of the CCP.
The incredibly detailed report can be found here :https://www.scribd.com/document/475993573/

It is now fair to say that its a conspiracy theory to believe this virus was entirely natural.

https://www.thesun.ie/news/5903613/chinese-defector-virologist-publishes-explosive-proof-coronavirus-man-made/

https://www.itv.com/loosewomen/articles/virologist-dr-li-meng-yan-coronavirus-cover-up-claims

These claims have already been debunked and were sadly given new oxygen by Fox News Channel's highest rated program.

jackboy · 17-09-2020 8:16pm

Overheal wrote: »

These claims have already been debunked[/URL] and were sadly given new oxygen by Fox News Channel's highest rated program.

That debunking article acknowledges another possibility, which in my opinion is most likely. The virus may be natural and was being studied in the lab. It may have been released by accident.

17-09-2020 8:22pm

I thought 5G caused it.

Overheal · 17-09-2020 11:14pm

Several off topic posts deleted. As always if you have a problem with a moderator decision contact the corresponding moderator first; if you can't reach an understanding take it to the Help Desk. Final notice. Thank you for your attention.

splashuum · 17-09-2020 11:34pm

The most likely scenario is that the virus was taken from Chinese caves where the horseshoe bat is prevalent. The virus was then brought back to the WUHAN virology lab to study and alter. (this was admitted in various articles). It was then leaked either by accident or on purpose.

NaFirinne · 18-09-2020 3:14am

Here she is talking on Fox news

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qFlqXPl_hZQ&ab_channel=FoxNews

bobbyy gee · 18-09-2020 3:39am

false information
https://www.nytimes.com/2020/09/16/business/media/facebook-instagram-tucker-carlson-virus-posts.html

NaFirinne · 18-09-2020 1:26pm

bobbyy gee wrote: »

false information
https://www.nytimes.com/2020/09/16/business/media/facebook-instagram-tucker-carlson-virus-posts.html

So we are dealing with either independent liars or a massive cover up.

This indeed is interesting times.

Igotadose · 18-09-2020 1:52pm

NaFirinne wrote: »

So we are dealing with either independent liars or a massive cover up.

This indeed is interesting times.

Ermm...yes to the liars. No to the coverup.

banie01 · 19-09-2020 1:42pm

A good article and sanity check on why Yan's paper is very likely nonsense from Nat Geo.
https://www.nationalgeographic.com/science/2020/09/coronavirus-origins-misinformation-yan-report-fact-check-cvd/

Yan has published a paper with no evidence, a poor hypothesis and one that quite frankly given its timing and sources of support is very more likely a propaganda piece, than a work of credulous research.

The report also argues that SARS-CoV-2 has “restriction-enzyme sites,” or genetic sequences that can be cut and manipulated by enzymes. These genomic features are sometimes used in cloning, and the report claims their presence is indicative of an engineered virus. But scientists point out these sites naturally occur in all types of genomes, from bacteria to humans.

“It looks legitimate because they use a lot of technical jargon. But in reality, a lot of what they're saying doesn't really make any sense,” says Rasmussen. She adds that the type of cloning that uses restriction enzymes is very outdated, and so it is unlikely to be used to make a viral bioweapon. And on a basic level, making an engineered virus is not a trivial matter. Scientists are still just trying to understand the molecular and genetic reasons why some viruses are more infectious than others. Adding features to a virus to make it more transmissible, for example, is called gain-of-function research. It is highly controversial for its potential to make bioweapons and was even banned in the U.S. for a time, limiting the data available on how it works.

Melanchthon · 19-09-2020 1:52pm

banie01 wrote: »

A good article and sanity check on why Yan's paper is very likely nonsense from Nat Geo.
https://www.nationalgeographic.com/science/2020/09/coronavirus-origins-misinformation-yan-report-fact-check-cvd/

Yan has published a paper with no evidence, a poor hypothesis and one that quite frankly given its timing and sources of support is very more likely a propaganda piece, than a work of credulous research.

I am not saying the Yan paper is good but I am more interested in the russian-american guys article which highlights that the gain function research is controversial but has links to the group working in Wuhan and in fact the USA has been worried about Chinese activities in this area, it doesn't seem like that area of the rebuttal holds water.
The Chinese are absolutely awful about bioethics, look at the CRISPR stuff for example.

JJayoo · 19-09-2020 4:00pm

Batman.... Half bath half man...new Batman film coming out...virus from bats....virus got into man...BatMan..... omg

Yellow_Fern · 19-09-2020 4:13pm

https://www.bostonmagazine.com/news/2020/09/09/alina-chan-broad-institute-coronavirus/

4068ac1elhodqr · 20-09-2020 7:30pm

Not diretly related, but a similar themed item of news emmerges today:

Health officials in Lanzhou, China, said 3,245 people tested positive for brucellosis, after a (a state-owned biopharmaceutical plant) 'Lab leak'.
Thousands of people in China have contracted an infectious disease following a leak from a plant (that makes animal vaccines).
https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/world-news/massive-bacteria-outbreak-china-infects-22707896

Brucellosis, which is also known as Malta fever or Mediterranean fever, can cause symptoms including fever, headaches, muscle pain and fatigue.
According to the CDC, some signs and symptoms may persist for long periods of time while others may never go away or reoccur such as arthritis or swelling in certain organs.

A further 1,401 people tested as an early positive for the disease after the authorities screened nearly 22,000 residents in the city with a population of 2.9million.
Luckily this isn't generally spread person to person.

The Lanzhou authorities said the factory - which apologised earlier this year { does this indicate the leak was many months ago, but only made public now?} has had its brucellosis vaccine production licence removed.

NaFirinne · 20-09-2020 9:53pm

Igotadose wrote: »

Ermm...yes to the liars. No to the coverup.

I reckon China are covering up a lot.

theballz · 26-09-2020 12:36pm

Lol @ conspiracy theories... You give government and politicians too much credit... they can't even convince the public their telling the truth, let along organize a pandemic.

Hard truth:

• Someone at Wuhan messed up, didn't follow protocol and this strain got out.

• China tried to save face... it didn't work.

• Power brokers everywhere saw an opportunity to make $$$$ and seize power.

Thats all it is lads. You can try to contrive nonsense to seem important... but the hard truth is, humans are idiots, and this whole thing was a small screw up that scaled to make $$ and seize power. Nothing more, nothing less. SRS

4068ac1elhodqr · 26-09-2020 1:39pm

theballz wrote: »

Hard truth:

• Someone at Wuhan messed up, didn't follow protocol and this strain got out.
• China tried to save face... it didn't work.
• Power brokers everywhere saw an opportunity to make $$$$ and seize power.

This is indeed the most likely sceanrio of events (but chance also the WuhanL4 leak might also have been non-accidental too).

However the question remains as to the likely real world 'effects' of making lot$ of mula, then calling 2021 'The Great Reset'.
Bear in mind certain folks have been planning, even fantasising like a wet-dream, about a global pandemic in recent years.

banie01 · 22-10-2020 8:02pm

I was wondering today why this particular theory had ever so quietly petered out.

https://edition.cnn.com/2020/10/21/politics/coronavirus-lab-theory-yan-bannon-invs/index.html

Looks like Bannon didn't just finance the publisher of this paper, but that the original premise was floated on Bannon linked website some months before Dr Yan's "dramatic escape".
Bannon was likely the origin of the whole spiel.

Then, its validity began to unravel. The publication of the paper by lead author Li-Meng Yan -- an expatriate from China seeking asylum in the US -- was quickly linked to former White House adviser Steve Bannon, long a strident critic of China's government. The Johns Hopkins Center for Health Security -- a leading authority on the pandemic -- criticized the science behind the report, and pointed out that Yan and her co-authors "cite multiple papers in their reference section that have weaknesses or flaws."
A CNN review of Yan's research found it was also built on what appears to be the same theories, similar passages and identical charts presented by an anonymous blogger whose writings were posted on a website linked to Bannon months earlier. Additionally, a source told CNN the three co-authors of Yan's paper used pseudonyms instead of their real names, a practice frowned upon in scientific and academic work.

There is a lot of info both interesting and worrying regarding Bannon and the cross pollination of this BS with Fox. Bannon has gone so far as to speculate that the WH super spreader event was a Chinese plot to target Don.

This month, while praising Yan's work on Bannon's podcast, Bannon and Guo went as far as to suggest that China deliberately infected President Trump with the coronavirus.
That podcast -- called "War Room: Pandemic" -- was recorded the day after Trump was hospitalized for Covid-19.
Bannon credited Guo for saying from the beginning that the virus not only purposefully emerged from the labs, but that "a target is Donald J. Trump."
Bannon asked Guo: "Do you believe that a super-spreader or somebody, was actually sent and somehow has been focused on the White House or focused on President --"
"100 percent," Guo said.

I really hope that if nothing else comes the CNN article above and the implosion of this theory.
It's that people will learn to read with a critical eye before running with nonsense.

This is a fairly clearcut example of the rightwing grift in action...
Again.

NaFirinne · 23-10-2020 1:31am

banie01 wrote: »

I was wondering today why this particular theory had ever so quietly petered out.

https://edition.cnn.com/2020/10/21/politics/coronavirus-lab-theory-yan-bannon-invs/index.html

Looks like Bannon didn't just finance the publisher of this paper, but that the original premise was floated on Bannon linked website some months before Dr Yan's "dramatic escape".
Bannon was likely the origin of the whole spiel.

There is a lot of info both interesting and worrying regarding Bannon and the cross pollination of this BS with Fox. Bannon has gone so far as to speculate that the WH super spreader event was a Chinese plot to target Don.

I really hope that if nothing else comes the CNN article above and the implosion of this theory.
It's that people will learn to read with a critical eye before running with nonsense.

This is a fairly clearcut example of the rightwing grift in action...
Again.

As if CNN have any credibility.

Underattack · 23-10-2020 1:34am

theballz wrote: »

Lol @ conspiracy theories... You give government and politicians too much credit... they can't even convince the public their telling the truth, let along organize a pandemic.

Hard truth:

• Someone at Wuhan messed up, didn't follow protocol and this strain got out.

• China tried to save face... it didn't work.

• Power brokers everywhere saw an opportunity to make $$$$ and seize power.

Thats all it is lads. You can try to contrive nonsense to seem important... but the hard truth is, humans are idiots, and this whole thing was a small screw up that scaled to make $$ and seize power. Nothing more, nothing less. SRS

Bang on the money.
Hardly a conspiracy though.

banie01 · 23-10-2020 9:57am

NaFirinne wrote: »

As if CNN have any credibility.

If you'd read the link, you'd see that the CNN article is an aggregation of multiple report sources including scientific journals.
All laying out the issues with the poor hypothesis and evidence presented in Dr Yan's original paper.
It also links the hypothesis back to being an idea originally floated on a Bannon connected website.
It also highlights the funding and publication issues with the paper.
It highlights the fact that the co-authors used pseudonyms!
It highlights the overwhelming amount of current scientific consensus regarding both the origin of the virus, and the poor evidential weight of Dr Yan's paper.
It highlights the crossover between Yan, Bannon, Carlson and some quite outlandish claims as to deliberate infection attempts.

It pulls together all that info and detail from multiple credible sources and presents it in a single easy to digest article.
Feel free to read it, and present alternative or refute any of the info shared.

That's how debate and examination works.
Not "CNN = bad".
Journalism matters, for many without research or a science background or indeed access to the usually paywalled info, good journalism presents one of the few ways that info can be easily and accessibly shared.

Sorry that it isn't infowars or bitchute

because those bastions of truth are so trustworthy...

23-10-2020 10:00am

theballz wrote: »

Lol @ conspiracy theories... You give government and politicians too much credit... they can't even convince the public their telling the truth, let along organize a pandemic.

Hard truth:

• Someone at Wuhan messed up, didn't follow protocol and this strain got out.

• Power brokers everywhere saw an opportunity to make $$$$ and seize power.

Thats all it is lads. You can try to contrive nonsense to seem important... but the hard truth is, humans are idiots, and this whole thing was a small screw up that scaled to make $$ and seize power. Nothing more, nothing less. SRS

You're right with the "it's all about $$$$ and power", but perhaps it was more planned than you think. Very coincidental set of circumstances and timing:

- Wuhan lab had previous funding for projects from Gates Foundation

- October 2019: Gates Foundation and World Economic Forum host 'Event 201', a "simulated response to hypothetical pandemic situation".

- Early 2020: Coronavirus emerges from Wuhan. Spreads internationally. Pandemic declared.

- Bill Gates (conveniently in the vaccine business) claims "we need to vaccinate the entire population". Has also openly stated "vaccines provide a financial return of 20-1".

- World Economic Forum leader Klaus Schwab says the coronavirus pandemic is the perfect opportunity to introduce his '4th Industrial Revolution', aka 'The Great Reset' (In my opinion, the fantasies of a fascist lunatic... "Facial recognition, technologies for tracking people, synthetic biology vaccines", along with repeated admiration of the Chinese government). He's had the idea for years, and wrote a book on the subject.

- Both plans now moving forward. Gates developing multiple vaccine candidates for "worldwide distribution" and WEF meeting with world leaders in a few months to discuss this "golden opportunity to 'reset' and 'reimagine' our world".

I agree that most politicians aren't the brightest, and influence very little. However, the likes of Bill Gates etc are very intelligent. Hence being able to build one of the most financially successful companies ever in Microsoft, and in doing so, becoming one of the richest men alive himself. Politicians don't call the shots; the people and organizations behind the scenes with the money call the shots.
Very, very, coincidental and convenient timeline at play here, considering the motivations of parties involved. Are you still so sure this virus was released accidentally? :pac:

Dohnjoe · 23-10-2020 10:23am

Deleted User wrote: »

You're right with the "it's all about $$$$ and power", but perhaps it was more planned than you think. Very coincidental set of circumstances and timing:

- Wuhan lab had previous funding for projects from Gates Foundation

- October 2019: Gates Foundation and World Economic Forum host 'Event 201', a "simulated response to hypothetical pandemic situation".

- Early 2020: Coronavirus emerges from Wuhan. Spreads internationally. Pandemic declared.

- Bill Gates (conveniently in the vaccine business) claims "we need to vaccinate the entire population". Has also openly stated "vaccines provide a financial return of 20-1".

- World Economic Forum leader Klaus Schwab says the coronavirus pandemic is the perfect opportunity to introduce his '4th Industrial Revolution', aka 'The Great Reset' (In my opinion, the fantasies of a fascist lunatic... "Facial recognition, technologies for tracking people, synthetic biology vaccines", along with repeated admiration of the Chinese government). He's had the idea for years, and wrote a book on the subject.

- Both plans now moving forward. Gates developing multiple vaccine candidates for "worldwide distribution" and WEF meeting with world leaders in a few months to discuss this "golden opportunity to 'reset' and 'reimagine' our world".

I agree that most politicians aren't the brightest, and influence very little. However, the likes of Bill Gates etc are very intelligent. Hence being able to build one of the most financially successful companies ever in Microsoft, and in doing so, becoming one of the richest men alive himself. Politicians don't call the shots; the people and organizations behind the scenes with the money call the shots.
Very, very, coincidental and convenient timeline at play here, considering the motivations of parties involved. Are you still so sure this virus was released accidentally? :pac:

You seem to be suggesting it was released intentionally, if so, then by who and why?

King Mob · 23-10-2020 10:39am

banie01 wrote: »

If you'd read the link, you'd see that the CNN article is an aggregation of multiple report sources including scientific journals.

Meanwhile we're being told to take the word of rando youtuber hacks who are shilling their patreon who are just using what they've read on the internet and their own personal authority.

23-10-2020 11:18am

Dohnjoe wrote: »

You seem to be suggesting it was released intentionally, if so, then by who and why?

Out at the moment. I'll answer that in more detail
with links etc when I'm back home later and not on mobile. Let me ask you though, before that. You only ever seem to ask "by who and why?". Half of that should be inferred by the information above; read the post properly. Whats your opinion? Do you think the above timeline, events, and motivations are just coincidental?

Dohnjoe · 23-10-2020 12:07pm

Deleted User wrote: »

Out at the moment. I'll answer that in more detail
with links etc when I'm back home later and not on mobile. Let me ask you though, before that. You only ever seem to ask "by who and why?". Half of that should be inferred by the information above; read the post properly. Whats your opinion? Do you think the above timeline, events, and motivations are just coincidental?

Because these conspiracies often change depending on whomever is coming up with them

So some it's the antichrist, for others it's the "NWO" or "Bill Gates" and so on, it's highly subjective

23-10-2020 12:27pm

Dohnjoe wrote: »

Because these conspiracies often change depending on whomever is coming up with them

So some it's the antichrist, for others it's the "NWO" or "Bill Gates" and so on, it's highly subjective

I don't even know what "the Antichrist" is supposed to mean

What do you think of the timeline I posted and parties who are now publicly trying to move forward their plans (mass vaccinations for Gates, Great Reset for WEF/Klaus Schwab). Is the fact they hosted a 'hypothetical pandemic simulation' last October, and then Coronavirus emerges from Wuhan in January, purely coincidental? The pandemic as they say, is the 'golden opportunity' to move forward with Schwab's Great Reset (envisioned and written about for years prior), of which mass vaccinations are part of the plan (with a "20-1 financial return for Bill).

What are *your* thoughts on this? Purely coincidental/convenient?

Dohnjoe · 23-10-2020 12:32pm

Deleted User wrote: »

I don't even know what "the Antichrist" is supposed to mean

What do you think of the timeline I posted and parties who are now publicly trying to move forward their plans (mass vaccinations for Gates, Great Reset for WEF/Klaus Schwab). Is the fact they hosted a 'hypothetical pandemic simulation' last October, and then Coronavirus emerges from Wuhan in January, purely coincidental? The pandemic as they say, is the 'golden opportunity' to move forward with Schwab's Great Reset (envisioned and written about for years prior), of which mass vaccinations are part of the plan (with a "20-1 financial return for Bill).

What are *your* thoughts on this? Purely coincidental/convenient?

My thoughts are that I've read the above in countless different combinations before used to point at everything from the antichrist to world domination to you name it

Since these things have a habit of being suspiciously vague, I'd prefer to know what this particular conspiracy is, i.e. who is behind it (names) and what is the motive

Dohnjoe · 26-10-2020 6:05pm

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/oct/26/survey-uncovers-widespread-belief-dangerous-covid-conspiracy-theories

“Any scary event – a pandemic, a mass shooting – that denies people a sense of control will lead to a proliferation of conspiracy theories,” said Stephan Lewandowsky, a cognitive psychologist at the University of Bristol who is an expert on misinformation.

“They give people a sense of psychological comfort: the feeling that they are not at the mercy of randomness. They’re dangerous at any time, but more so in a pandemic if they lead people to ignore official advice, or commit acts of vandalism or violence.”

But conspiracy theories also thrived on “governments’ inability to have a clear message”, said Lewandowsky. “They are another reason why we all need clear, consistent, evidence-based policymaking that can be trusted.”

Among other countries, roughly one in four French and one in five British and Spanish respondents believed the death rate of the virus had been exaggerated, while Australians, Swedes and Japanese were more likely to dismiss such a belief.

Significant numbers also thought the virus had been “deliberately created and spread” by the Chinese or US government, while in Poland one in five people believed it was definitely or probably a complete myth, created by unidentified “powerful forces”. Roughly the same proportions in Turkey, Egypt and Saudi Arabia said they agreed with that proposition, while in the US the figure reached 13%.

The false claim that 5G mobile technology is to blame for the spread of Covid-19 also has plenty of adherents, according to the survey, which was conducted in July and August.

More than a fifth of respondents in Turkey, Egypt, Saudi Arabia, Nigeria and South Africa believed it was definitely or probably true that symptoms were “caused or enhanced by the direct, physical effects on the human body” of 5G.

Depressing stuff.

MOH · 27-10-2020 1:25pm

Deleted User wrote: »

I don't even know what "the Antichrist" is supposed to mean

What do you think of the timeline I posted and parties who are now publicly trying to move forward their plans (mass vaccinations for Gates, Great Reset for WEF/Klaus Schwab). Is the fact they hosted a 'hypothetical pandemic simulation' last October, and then Coronavirus emerges from Wuhan in January, purely coincidental? The pandemic as they say, is the 'golden opportunity' to move forward with Schwab's Great Reset (envisioned and written about for years prior), of which mass vaccinations are part of the plan (with a "20-1 financial return for Bill).

What are *your* thoughts on this? Purely coincidental/convenient?

It was pretty much bound to happen eventually.
Given that wargaming various major crises and simulating responses to them happens on a regular basis.

What's your explanation for all the other times similar simulations were staged and there *wasn't* a pandemic.

Actually don't tell me - I presume they were all twenty years of practice runs and once they finally perfected it they unleashed the real thing :rolleyes:

NaFirinne · 30-10-2020 1:34am

I think covid is being used to reset the world economics push for a more centralised world government system.

King Mob · 30-10-2020 2:44am

NaFirinne wrote: »

I think covid is being used to reset the world economics push for a more centralised world government system.

And who is behind this push? Are all governments around the world on board with this?

NaFirinne · 30-10-2020 11:53am

King Mob wrote: »

And who is behind this push? Are all governments around the world on board with this?

The UN, along with Who and the world economic forum I'd suspect.

I'd say there probably trying to speed up the so called 4th industrial revolution.

MOH · 30-10-2020 11:56am

NaFirinne wrote: »

I think covid is being used to reset the world economics push for a more centralised world government system.

This is very interesting. Please explain what you think "reset the world economics" means, and also what a "centralised world government system" would look like?

Dohnjoe · 30-10-2020 12:15pm

NaFirinne wrote: »

The UN, along with Who and the world economic forum I'd suspect.

I'd say there probably trying to speed up the so called 4th industrial revolution.

Let's say all the above is true. Why are they trying to form a "centralized world government" and speed up the "4th industrial revolution"?

And is it being "kept a secret"?

King Mob · 30-10-2020 12:25pm

NaFirinne wrote: »

The UN, along with Who and the world economic forum I'd suspect.

I'd say there probably trying to speed up the so called 4th industrial revolution.

So then if all the worlds governments are behind this plan and they all agree on it (first thing ever), why the secrecy? Why the waiting?

Which levels of governments are involved? Is it only the top level? What about when governments change recently like Ireland's did. Were they informed of the plan then or did they know before hand?

How is the WHO involved exactly? Are all doctors and experts also involved in this conspiracy?

US2 · 09-11-2020 2:41pm

The very next day after Biden is announced winner they announce a safe effective vaccine....

Timberrrrrrrr · 09-11-2020 2:48pm

US2 wrote: »

The very next day after Biden is announced winner they announce a safe effective vaccine....

https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/1325778096151203843?s=19

US2 · 09-11-2020 3:02pm

Timberrrrrrrr wrote: »

https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/1325778096151203843?s=19

Yes , parts of the economy are already back to pre covid share prices because you get fired yesterday Donald ðŸ€£

Dohnjoe · 09-11-2020 3:04pm

US2 wrote: »

The very next day after Biden is announced winner they announce a safe effective vaccine....

Okay, and your point?

Are you suggesting a vaccine was "held back" until, what, news that Biden had won? If yes, what are the details..

Thierry12 · 09-11-2020 3:05pm

Timberrrrrrrr wrote: »

https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/1325778096151203843?s=19

Thats common knowledge

Pfzier said a while ago they wouldn't release results until after election

Staying neutral

US2 · 09-11-2020 3:06pm

Dohnjoe wrote: »

Okay, and your point?

Are you suggesting a vaccine was "held back" until, what, news that Biden had won? If yes, what are the details..

This is the conspiracy theory forum, I don't have to provide proof of anything. I'm just asking the question...

Dohnjoe · 09-11-2020 3:15pm

US2 wrote: »

This is the conspiracy theory forum, I don't have to provide proof of anything. I'm just asking the question...

The very next day after Biden is announced winner they announce a safe effective vaccine....

Is not a question.

If you are using innuendo to suggest some sort of conspiracy, then would like to know what the conspiracy is. If there is none whatsoever, then fine, nothing to discuss.

Covid-19 likely to be man made

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