Terminator: Dark Fate Spoilers from post 983

leitrim4life · 19-07-2019 11:56am

They deserve an Oscar if they can whip Ed furlong into shape for the movie.

Kermit.de.frog · 19-07-2019 12:16pm

pixelburp wrote: »

Man that video: obvious pandering with the contrived swearing, coupled with James "I shilled for Genisys" Cameron yapping about how great Dark Fate is.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e8Xx9agRgS4

uggggh

Church on Tuesday · 19-07-2019 12:43pm

TerrorFirmer wrote: »

First trailer wasn't great at selling the film at all, just looked like Genisys Part 2. That featurette has some interesting scenes that do suggest a grittier, darker film....confirmation that it's r-rated on top of that has really peaked my interest again. Obviously, swearing and violence doesn't make a film, but for a film about ruthless killer robots sent from the future to exterminate people, it certainly has some sway.

Yes, The Predator who be in agreement with you there.

All we need now is Earl Boen for this and all the old gang will be back :rolleyes:

Effects · 19-07-2019 1:07pm

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

uggggh

"It's all about the twist."

No it isn't. The trailer showed us that John Connor was a terminator.

Venom · 20-07-2019 8:09pm

For anyone looking forward to this movie, you would do well to avoid watching or reading any fluff pieces about it, as huge plot spoilers are floating around forums and Youtube.

jill_valentine · 20-07-2019 10:01pm

Venom wrote: »

For anyone looking forward to this movie, you would do well to avoid watching or reading any fluff pieces about it, as huge plot spoilers are floating around forums and Youtube.

Yeah, and it's worth saying they're being spread out of spite by some unhappy campers so they won't be marked.

Calhoun · 20-07-2019 11:03pm

I have decided to keep clear of much of the online stuff as yet again another film dragged into toxicity.

This thread though has got me hyped and ill just keep an eye on this.

Venom · 20-07-2019 11:22pm

jill_valentine wrote: »

Yeah, and it's worth saying they're being spread out of spite by some unhappy campers so they won't be marked.

I think its more than just an unhappy fan or a blogger looking for clicks. The spoiler info comes in the form of on set audio recordings, which is not something that normally gets leaked to the media so something fishy is afoot.
Personally, I'm not too bothered as the franchise has been awful since the third movie onwards but if these leaks are accurate and I believe them to be so, Dark Fate is going to be an absolute dumpster fire of a movie.

jill_valentine · 21-07-2019 1:46am

Venom wrote: »

I think its more than just an unhappy fan or a blogger looking for clicks. The spoiler info comes in the form of on set audio recordings, which is not something that normally gets leaked to the media so something fishy is afoot.
Personally, I'm not too bothered as the franchise has been awful since the third movie onwards but if these leaks are accurate and I believe them to be so, Dark Fate is going to be an absolute dumpster fire of a movie.

Hmm, spoilers I saw came from an advanced screening and they're more or less confirmed.

That said, I wasn't doubting their veracity, I think we're probably talking about the same plot point. I was just saying that if you're trying to avoid spoilers, take extra care because people are actively trying to make you see them, like it or not, for their own personal beef reasons.

Personally, the more I think about thing X happening the more I think it might be exactly what the franchise needs. I was interested for Mackenzie Davis' sake before, but between the spoilers and the SDCC footage I think this might turn out to be a genuinely good blockbuster. They did themselves no favours with that first trailer though.

Chris_Heilong · 22-07-2019 11:32am

I hope it is good but as it seems to be designed with purposeful agendas in mind right down to the look of certain characters and where it is set so I hope there is a good story under it all and we are not hit over the head with "women are powerful" and "Boarders are bad" style messaging as all you are going to do is polarize film goers in a similar manner to The Last Jedi.

Church on Tuesday · 22-07-2019 12:03pm

Chris_Heilong wrote: »

I hope it is good but as it seems to be designed with purposeful agendas in mind right down to the look of certain characters and where it is set so I hope there is a good story under it all and we are not hit over the head with "women are powerful" and "Boarders are bad" style messaging as all you are going to do is polarize film goers in a similar manner to The Last Jedi.

I'm afraid you're going to be very disappointed and that's not even taking into account the spoilers which will disappoint and baffle even more TBH.

jill_valentine · 22-07-2019 4:15pm

The whole plot takes place within about a day and half long chase, so there's not really much room for exploring that stuff in depth.

I'm slightly bewildered though at how many people seem incredulous that crossing the US-Mexican border features in a Terminator movie. It's a feature of both the "real" previous movies.

I'm fairly intrigued by what I've heard of the story, but It's an action movie, execution is all.

Church on Tuesday · 22-07-2019 5:13pm

jill_valentine wrote: »

The whole plot takes place within about a day and half long chase, so there's not really much room for exploring that stuff in depth.

I'm slightly bewildered though at how many people seem incredulous that crossing the US-Mexican border features in a Terminator movie. It's a feature of both the "real" previous movies.

I'm fairly intrigued by what I've heard of the story, but It's an action movie, execution is all.

It's a lot more than just Sarah getting her pic taken or tooling up across the border this time; it's a commentary on, y'know, the whole Trump thing with the wall and border controls.

In a Terminator film. :rolleyes:

jill_valentine · 22-07-2019 6:34pm

Church on Tuesday wrote: »

It's a lot more than just Sarah getting her pic taken or tooling up across the border this time; it's a commentary on, y'know, the whole Trump thing with the wall and border controls.

In a Terminator film. :rolleyes:

I hope there's a cup of sugary tea handy when you find out how T2 handles post Cold War arms racing, gaslighting, uniformed authority features, and a frightened, shrieky waitress turning herself into a guerrilla warrior capable of staging a successful terrorist attack on a major defense contractor.

Regardless, we don't know how it'll be handled. They have to cross the border - with said known-terrorist and another woman who is also a criminal, will have no papers and can't exactly waltz though a body scanner - and the logistics of that can't be handwaved away anyway.

Church on Tuesday · 22-07-2019 7:44pm

jill_valentine wrote: »

I hope there's a cup of sugary tea handy when you find out how T2 handles post Cold War arms racing, gaslighting, uniformed authority features, and a frightened, shrieky waitress turning herself into a guerrilla warrior capable of staging a successful terrorist attack on a major defense contractor.

Regardless, we don't know how it'll be handled. They have to cross the border - with said known-terrorist and another woman who is also a criminal, will have no papers and can't exactly waltz though a body scanner - and the logistics of that can't be handwaved away anyway.

T2 very lightly touches on the industrial militarily complex but really it's driving themes are; what it means to be human and all that entails, abandonment, emotional loss and that's pretty much your lot.

It's a loud brash sci-fi action franchise and not some deep rooted political thriller series.

Indeed we don't know how it will be handled but we certainly know how it will be framed.

Kermit.de.frog · 23-07-2019 9:43am

In one of the clips on the trailer you see migrants escaping an obvious detention camp in the background when they are under attack by the rev 9.

So yeah, there will be political messaging but I don't mind the odd scene so long as we are not hit over the head over and over again with political propaganda. Then it just gets annoying.

Lots of movies have subtle messaging but not many go OTT with it to the point where it distracts. Be hoping the same here.

I don't want that when I go see a movie. I just want to be entertained. I can watch CNN whenever I want.

correction · 23-07-2019 10:16am

Surely not a movie with political undertones? I'm shocked and absolutely appalled.

eldeniro · 23-07-2019 11:09am

I assume all the people who don't like political undertones in their movies also hated the Christopher Nolan Batman trilogy for its hammer-to-a-nail approach to political symbolism, especially in the latter two films of the series

Unearthly · 23-07-2019 11:13am

This is an obvious box office flop. Might even flop worse than X Men

pixelburp · 23-07-2019 11:15am

Unearthly wrote: »

This is an obvious box office flop. Might even flop worse than X Men

If it's opening in China / Asia, it won't flop. It really couldn't be any worse than Genisys and in a world where the Transformers franchise continues, you can't be sure of quality vs. box office.

Unearthly · 23-07-2019 11:17am

pixelburp wrote: »

If it's opening in China / Asia, it won't flop. It really couldn't be any worse than Genisys and in a world where the Transformers franchise continues, you can't be sure of quality vs. box office.

Just feels like it's on a downward trend. Arnie was a big reason for the asia market but his time on the trailers is minimal.

They seem to be banking on the name James Cameron this time

ancapailldorcha · 23-07-2019 11:19am

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

I don't want that when I go see a movie. I just want to be entertained. I can watch CNN whenever I want.

Why not just stay at home then? I don't see what the incessant whining about a film that hasn't been released yet is supposed to achieve.

eldeniro · 23-07-2019 11:22am

Unearthly wrote: »

Just feels like it's on a downward trend. Arnie was a big reason for the asia market but his time on the trailers is minimal.

They seem to be banking on the name James Cameron this time

how does it feel like it's on a downward trend when the last Terminator film made more money than both Rise of the Machines and Salvation?

What is the downward trend?

jill_valentine · 23-07-2019 11:30am

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

In one of the clips on the trailer you see migrants escaping an obvious detention camp in the background when they are under attack by the rev 9.

Again though, they're crossing the border, there are practical storytelling elements involved. Note the shot of the border guys trying to X ray Grace, which has obvious implications for them all.

Idk, I'm a BSG and Firefly fan and I'm ancient enough to remember some of the context for stuff like T2 or the Matrix, which weren't as neutral as people seem to recall. I won't clutch pearls over movies not taking place in a politic vacuum, but I genuinely don't think you can really tell a modern Terminator movie without incorporating the border somehow.

pixelburp · 23-07-2019 11:35am

Messaging is in blockbusters, just depends how well its hidden: some weave it artfully enough to be ignored (Mad Max: Fury Road; Star Wars FFS however superficially), whereas others can be as blunt as a hammer (Independence Day; Day After Tomorrow pretty much set itself up as an inversion of modern third->first world migration; Dark Knight Rises; any Blockbuster funded by a Chinese studio tends to have a pro-China narrative).

Heck, speaking of China: how many American blockbusters set themselves up as inherently pro-American, pro-captailism narratives? If there's one happy result of the international markets becoming more important, it's that the obnoxious jingoism in American cinema has lessened. Yet only now we're up in arms over 'politics'?

Agree with the above sentiment that there's a LOT of bad air milling around over a film not even out yet. Feels like some have already made up their mind and it won't matter how good/bad/Atari Jaguar the final film is, people will pursue their confirmation bias.

Me, I'm going to hate it because it'll never be as good as my Battle of the Bulge Terminator film damnit

Unearthly · 23-07-2019 11:48am

eldeniro wrote: »

how does it feel like it's on a downward trend when the last Terminator film made more money than both Rise of the Machines and Salvation?

What is the downward trend?

Fair enough.

Is it too late for me to use inflation to save me? :pac:

conorhal · 23-07-2019 12:10pm

pixelburp wrote: »

Messaging is in blockbusters, just depends how well its hidden: some weave it artfully enough to be ignored (Mad Max: Fury Road; Star Wars FFS however superficially), whereas others can be as blunt as a hammer (Independence Day; Day After Tomorrow pretty much set itself up as an inversion of modern third->first world migration; Dark Knight Rises; any Blockbuster funded by a Chinese studio tends to have a pro-China narrative).

Heck, speaking of China: how many American blockbusters set themselves up as inherently pro-American, pro-captailism narratives? If there's one happy result of the international markets becoming more important, it's that the obnoxious jingoism in American cinema has lessened. Yet only now we're up in arms over 'politics'?

Agree with the above sentiment that there's a LOT of bad air milling around over a film not even out yet. Feels like some have already made up their mind and it won't matter how good/bad/Atari Jaguar the final film is, people will pursue their confirmation bias.

Me, I'm going to hate it because it'll never be as good as my Battle of the Bulge Terminator film damnit

There was a lot of hoo-rah! Action movies out of Hollywood in the 80's and 90's. Simpler times I guess, but at least they were pro something. Nasty, horrendously on the nose side swipes from the side-line however are something else.
Trump derangement syndrome has infected Hollywood and they're not subtle about it.
Entertainment can be political, sometimes, like Watchmen for example, it can even be great, but for the most part leave it in the subtext (remember subtext?).
When it's a blatant virtue signal like Captain Marvel which just wears it on its sleeve that’s off-putting. I see a lot of complaining about 'incels crying about Captain marvel or X or Y being 'attacked'. It's performative outrage about a reaction they deliberately courted. Crying about a butt-hurt reaction to your butt-hurt messaging is hilariously hypocritical.
If you're going to do things like this, don't pretend to be shocked by getting a reaction:

captain-marvel-send-her-home.jpg?q=50&fit=crop&w=738

captain-marvel-send-her-home.jpg?q=50&fit=crop&w=738

I see no need for any Terminators movies beyond T2 that neatly closed the loop.
But let's not pretend that a Terminator story about a Latinx chick who needs to be rescued from one of Trump's ICE concentration camps so that she can be the saviour of humanities future, isn't some of the most eye rollingly woke nonsenses that's so on the nose that there's no way to interpret as anyting other F Drumpfh propaganda.

johnny_ultimate · 23-07-2019 12:16pm

LMAO Captain Marvel is about as provocative as a light gust of wind. The manbabies’ reaction to it has been hilariously overblown and worthy of nothing but mockery. And I say that as someone who thought the film was crappy.

pixelburp · 23-07-2019 12:19pm

conorhal wrote: »

There was a lot of hoo-rah! Action movies out of Hollywood in the 80's and 90's. Simpler times I guess, but at least they were pro something. Nasty, horrendously on the nose side swipes from the side-line however are something else.
Trump derangement syndrome has infected Hollywood and they're not subtle about it.

They were pro American Exceptionalism, and pro American interference in developing nations (usually threading a War on Drugs plot); stuff like Commando, Predator and whatnot were made during the Reagan era of Contra/Nicaragua, and its overall interference in Latin America (arguably the effects of which are still seen to this day. A lot of people forget just how much the US dabbled in Latin American countries)

Fact was America was still at a highpoint of its power, while international markets didn't count for as much; many films reflected this with an openly jingoistic view of the world. And why would they? America was on top, so that informed the movies they made. Power Fantasies were very much 'in'.

It's easy to look back now on it, shrug and go "simpler times", but blockbusters were no less politically insidious than stuff like "Wolf Warrior 2", the highest grossing movie in China ever & an openly propagandist piece. Eventually you saw a kickback against this mentality as the 80s went on - to the jury I submit ...

Robocop: arguably a politics-first blockbuster, that very much took American Exceptionalism and went "this stinks". But it had cool robots so I guess we didn't care?

Don't get the "Trump Derangement Syndrome", cos TBH I haven't seen any films that openly mock the President. That's just conflating a cultural mood that predated him (Ghostbusters 2016 was produced before he became President)

conorhal wrote: »

But let's not pretend that Latinx chick who needs to be rescued from one of Trump's ICE concentration camps so that she can be the saviour of humanities future isn't some of the most eye rollingly woke nonsenses that's so on the nose that there's no way to interpret it as anyting other F Drumpfh propaganda.

Missed the bit where I said we should probably wait til the movie comes out before we know things for sure?

jill_valentine · 23-07-2019 12:31pm

conorhal wrote: »

There was a lot of hoo-rah! Action movies out of Hollywood in the 80's and 90's. Simpler times I guess, but at least they were pro something. Nasty, horrendously on the nose side swipes from the side-line however are something else.
Trump derangement syndrome has infected Hollywood and they're not subtle about it.
Entertainment can be political, sometimes, like Watchmen for example, it can even be great, but for the most part leave it in the subtext (remember subtext?).
When it's a blatant virtue signal like Captain Marvel which just wears it on its sleeve that’s off-putting. I see a lot of complaining about 'incels crying about Captain marvel or X or Y being 'attacked'. It's performative outrage about a reaction they deliberately courted. Crying about a butt-hurt reaction to your butt-hurt messaging is hilariously hypocritical.
If you're going to do things like this, don't pretend to be shocked by getting a reaction:

I see no need for any Terminators movies beyond T2 that neatly closed the loop.
But let's not pretend that a Terminator story about a Latinx chick who needs to be rescued from one of Trump's ICE concentration camps so that she can be the saviour of humanities future, isn't some of the most eye rollingly woke nonsenses that's so on the nose that there's no way to interpret as anyting other F Drumpfh propaganda.

Just to be clear, you're still asserting *Terminator* is the one bringing too much political baggage....?

conorhal · 23-07-2019 12:52pm

pixelburp wrote: »

They were pro American Exceptionalism, and pro American interference in developing nations (usually threading a War on Drugs plot); stuff like Commando, Predator and whatnot were made during the Reagan era of Contra/Nicaragua, and its overall interference in Latin America (arguably the effects of which are still seen to this day. A lot of people forget just how much the US dabbled in Latin American countries)

Fact was America was still at a highpoint of its power, while international markets didn't count for as much; many films reflected this with an openly jingoistic view of the world. And why would they? America was on top, so that informed the movies they made. Power Fantasies were very much 'in'.

It's easy to look back now on it, shrug and go "simpler times", but blockbusters were no less politically insidious than stuff like "Wolf Warrior 2", the highest grossing movie in China ever & an openly propagandist piece. Eventually you saw a kickback against this mentality as the 80s went on - to the jury I submit ...

Robocop: arguably a politics-first blockbuster, that very much took American Exceptionalism and went "this stinks". But it had cool robots so I guess we didn't care?

Don't get the "Trump Derangement Syndrome", cos TBH I haven't seen any films that openly mock the President. That's just conflating a cultural mood that predated him (Ghostbusters 2016 was produced before he became President)

Missed the bit where I said we should probably wait til the movie comes out before we know things for sure?

So pro American Exceptionalism bad, pro far left messaging good? Because you only seem to have a problem with one.

How about neiter in my dumb action blockbuster entertainment?

eldeniro · 23-07-2019 12:54pm

conorhal wrote: »

So pro American Exceptionalism bad, pro far left messaging good? Because you only seem to have a problem with one.

that wasn't the point of his posts at all, he was clearly stating that movies have been political since forever and the "big dumb action movies" were never necessarily exempt.

pixelburp · 23-07-2019 12:59pm

conorhal wrote: »

So pro American Exceptionalism bad, pro far left messaging good? Because you only seem to have a problem with one.

How about neiter in my dumb action blockbuster entertainment?

Not even remotely the point I was making

You sniffed at 80s Reagan-era politics as being superficial, whereas there was a clear, political context to movies of that time. It's easy to be relaxed in hindsight, when said era is passed and those cultural markers no longer exist in the zeitgeist or personally affect you.

Point being, art doesn't exist in a vacuum and pretending that ONLY NOW have we blockbusters with a message is false, and disingenuous.

But..

Again.

You're just presuming the plot of Dark Fate, which, ya know, isn't out yet. So all the buzzwords in the world doesn't hide the fact that nobody here has seen the film and are just inserting our biases and presumptions into the final product. I

If we want to, these things can be ignored. I don't care about Commandos politics so ignore them. I like RoboCop's blatant satire, so it enriches the film. Horses for courses

Chris_Heilong · 23-07-2019 2:19pm

pixelburp wrote: »

If it's opening in China / Asia, it won't flop. It really couldn't be any worse than Genisys and in a world where the Transformers franchise continues, you can't be sure of quality vs. box office.

It will fail in China if it is full of feminist tropes, that does not really appeal to the Chinese.

jill_valentine · 23-07-2019 3:11pm

Chris_Heilong wrote: »

It will fail in China if it is full of feminist tropes, that does not really appeal to the Chinese.

Ah yes, this classic of the genre. I remember hearing it a lot about Captain Marvel right up until had a 90 million dollar opening weekend in China.

Chris_Heilong · 23-07-2019 4:58pm

jill_valentine wrote: »

Ah yes, this classic of the genre. I remember hearing it a lot about Captain Marvel right up until had a 90 million dollar opening weekend in China.

Well it was not full of feminist crap, have you seen it. As johnny_ultimate said it was very middle of the road when it came to feminist messages, I would be looking at The Last Jedi as more of what they dont like.

pixelburp · 23-07-2019 5:12pm

Chris_Heilong wrote: »

Well it was not full of feminist crap, have you seen it. As johnny_ultimate said it was very middle of the road when it came to feminist messages, I would be looking at The Last Jedi as more of what they dont like.

Star Wars isn't big in China either though: if you take a look at the Box Office for EpisodeVII...

https://www.boxofficemojo.com/movies/?page=intl&id=starwars7.htm

China lags behind the UK, and took slightly more than Germany of all places; a similar story is seen with Rogue One & Solo (though obviously the latter had larger problems across all territories). Episode VII barely took more than ... Terminator Genisys.

China IS a very conservative market, that is true as would most non-Western markets, but what's also true IMO is that it simply doesn't care for Star Wars either - so no, I don't think you can read Last Jedi's performance as indicative towards a backlash. It's still a big Hollywood blockbuster so performs fine, but nowhere near the kind of lopsided success you see here or elsewhere...

edit: Donnie Yen himself theorises that it's simply down to the fact China doesn't have the 40 odd years of nostalgia to draw audiences to theatres: https://screenrant.com/star-wars-movies-china-donnie-yen/

eldeniro · 23-07-2019 5:12pm

Chris_Heilong wrote: »

Well it was not full of feminist crap, have you seen it. As johnny_ultimate said it was very middle of the road when it came to feminist messages, I would be looking at The Last Jedi as more of what they dont like.

1. What constitutes "feminist messages" in films?
2. What evidence do you have that "the Chinese" don't like said "feminist messages"?
3. How can you relate The Last Jedi's poor box office performance in China to "feminist messages"?

You have to see a movie before you can ascertain the level of feminist messages within it.

I'm willing to bet that you think Rogue One is a film with the nebulous "feminist messages" embedded within which did very well in China.

jill_valentine · 23-07-2019 6:16pm

Chris_Heilong wrote: »

Well it was not full of feminist crap, have you seen it. As johnny_ultimate said it was very middle of the road when it came to feminist messages, I would be looking at The Last Jedi as more of what they dont like.

Where are those goalposts going...?

CM is very overtly feminist, which is not the same as being provocative. It's far more so than Ghostbusters, for example. And more to the point, it was certainly perceived to be overtly feminist, by all the usual suspects who have been throwing hissy fits over this movie's trailers, and marketed thusly. So if your logic holds, the opening box office in China should reflect the same assertion.

CM was definitely, absolutely going to tank due to its feminism. Until it didn't, and only then was it decided it must not have been so feminist after all. Abracadabra!

As I say, there is plenty of room for Terminator to fail - the value of the IP is seriously degraded by now, for one, and depicting detention camps could be a sore point in China rn - but whether it does or not, I'd be lying if I said I wasn't already enjoying the huge amount of energy going into wishy thinking ways it should, for its perceived political agenda, by people with definite political agendas.

Looking forward to many more instances of stunts they actually did practically as evidence of CGI overkill.

Chris_Heilong · 23-07-2019 6:16pm

eldeniro wrote: »

1. What constitutes "feminist messages" in films?
2. What evidence do you have that "the Chinese" don't like said "feminist messages"?
3. How can you relate The Last Jedi's poor box office performance in China to "feminist messages"?

You have to see a movie before you can ascertain the level of feminist messages within it.

I'm willing to bet that you think Rogue One is a film with the nebulous "feminist messages" embedded within which did very well in China.

No, Rouge One was good, I speak Chinese and know the people, Feminist is anything that puts women above men, speaks about how "sexist" men are or shows men in a bad light in order to prop up women, surely you have seen many films and tv shows doing this since 2016 as they are full of these kind of things. I said near the start of this thread I am looking forward to seeing this but if it is too PC it will turn me off, also if it is R rated it might not get released in china at all.

johnny_ultimate · 23-07-2019 6:21pm

Chris_Heilong wrote: »

Feminist is anything that puts women above men, speaks about how "sexist" men are or shows men in a bad light in order to prop up women

That is not feminism by any widely or commonly accepted definition of the word.

Chris_Heilong · 23-07-2019 6:31pm

johnny_ultimate wrote: »

That is not feminism by any widely or commonly accepted definition of the word.

That is modern day feminism I am afraid and is the reason most people out side of the far left see it as a bad thing, it is more akinn to Misandry these days than the noble cause it had back in the 50s. Women are already equal and have been for the past two decades. Fewer than one in five women would call themselves a feminist based on UK polls.

pixelburp · 23-07-2019 7:02pm

Chris_Heilong wrote: »

No, Rouge One was good, I speak Chinese and know the people, Feminist is anything that puts women above men, speaks about how "sexist" men are or shows men in a bad light in order to prop up women, surely you have seen many films and tv shows doing this since 2016 as they are full of these kind of things. I said near the start of this thread I am looking forward to seeing this but if it is too PC it will turn me off, also if it is R rated it might not get released in china at all.

Doesn't change the numbers that Star Wars just isn't as embedded a franchise in China as other countries; Last Jedi underperformed, but so has ALL the films. Doesn't help that there's not the same 40 years of fandom to draw on (hell, IIRC some Solo promotions in China actually removed references to Star Wars).

As to misandry, that's a canard; we've reached a boiling point in this cycle, where conclusions are drawn, and the evidence backfilled to suit a bias. If you suppose everything is an agenda, then of course you start finding conspiracy, it's McCarthyism in the digital age.

py2006 · 23-07-2019 8:09pm

johnny_ultimate wrote: »

That is not feminism by any widely or commonly accepted definition of the word.

Tell that to today's feminists

batgoat · 23-07-2019 8:46pm

Based on some posters in this thread, Terminator 2 would have been too feministy in the present day.

eldeniro · 24-07-2019 8:46am

batgoat wrote: »

Based on some posters in this thread, Terminator 2 would have been too feministy in the present day.

if Terminator 2 came out today you'd have a fair amount of conservatives decrying its anti-paternal message that a boy doesn't need a father and that single mothers are stronger than any force in the known universe

pixelburp · 24-07-2019 9:28am

batgoat wrote: »

Based on some posters in this thread, Terminator 2 would have been too feministy in the present day.

Tim Burton's Batman is 30 yeas old, and was checking out the sequel, Batman Returns out of nostalgia. Realistically, it's Michelle Pfeiffer's movie as she becomes catwoman, but what struck me was just how aggressively overt it was with exactly the kind of thing only now apparently present in Hollywood: this 1992 film ('simpler times' to use the phrase of someone else) had male characters acting like dumb neanderthals when Pfeiffer walks into scene, with the latter then making clichéd "I am woman, here me roar" (including that very line) remarks before kicking their ass.

Point being: if that film was released today, based on the conclusions presumed over something as milquetoast as Captain Marvel, those outraged by that would go BANANAS. Or is it just the fact Pfeiffer dressed in a S&M fetish costume that ameliorated that angst of misandry (honestly, I'd say it probably is. I'd be lying if I didn't say it was my bag, but her character really is 'militant' and then some)?

Look, I get some people are fed up reading about this topic (and it is off-topic too) - so am I! There's literally 2 separate threads now of whining about SJW/misandry/ between here and the James Bond thread - but IMO it's a valid topic; if people insist it exists, then it's fair game to discuss the whys, hows, and that ... yah know, perhaps it's not the great modern politicisation that some would say it is.

TheIrishGrover · 24-07-2019 10:01am

This...... This is about Terminators, right? I mean: Sarah Conor, Arnie, Terminators, guns and sh*t blowing up, right?

I have no problem with Sarah Conor being a woman.... If I remember right, she was ALWAYS a woman in the movies, right?

And she was always badass - Especially after she meets Kyle. Oh. maybe people (either side of argument) have a problem there "Oh, she only became a bad-ass after a man showed her how". No..... She only became a bad-ass after a huge f*cking robot tried to f*cking KILL HER!!!

People get their knickers in a twist about both sides of the argument and, to me it all sounds like:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DuQGi3JMk_s

Chris_Heilong · 24-07-2019 11:16am

TheIrishGrover wrote: »

This...... This is about Terminators, right? I mean: Sarah Conor, Arnie, Terminators, guns and sh*t blowing up, right?

I have no problem with Sarah Conor being a woman.... If I remember right, she was ALWAYS a woman in the movies, right? And she was always badass - Especially after she meets Kyle. Oh. maybe people (either side of argument) have a problem there "Oh, she only became a bad-ass after a man showed her how". No..... She only became a bad-ass after a huge f*cking robot tried to f*cking KILL HER!!!

People get their knickers in a twist about both sides of the argument and, to me it all sounds like:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DuQGi3JMk_s

Nicely said. The way I look at it is as long as a film does not insult a portion of its audience then we are all good which is the reason I like terminator, Alien, Wonder woman and most recently Alita, they are just good movies with bad ass female protagonists.

silverharp · 24-07-2019 12:05pm

pixelburp wrote: »

Tim Burton's Batman is 30 yeas old, and was checking out the sequel, Batman Returns out of nostalgia. Realistically, it's Michelle Pfeiffer's movie as she becomes catwoman, but what struck me was just how aggressively overt it was with exactly the kind of thing only now apparently present in Hollywood: this 1992 film ('simpler times' to use the phrase of someone else) had male characters acting like dumb neanderthals when Pfeiffer walks into scene, with the latter then making clichéd "I am woman, here me roar" (including that very line) remarks before kicking their ass.

Point being: if that film was released today, based on the conclusions presumed over something as milquetoast as Captain Marvel, those outraged by that would go BANANAS. Or is it just the fact Pfeiffer dressed in a S&M fetish costume that ameliorated that angst of misandry (honestly, I'd say it probably is. I'd be lying if I didn't say it was my bag, but her character really is 'militant' and then some)?

Look, I get some people are fed up reading about this topic (and it is off-topic too) - so am I! There's literally 2 separate threads now of whining about SJW/misandry/ between here and the James Bond thread - but IMO it's a valid topic; if people insist it exists, then it's fair game to discuss the whys, hows, and that ... yah know, perhaps it's not the great modern politicisation that some would say it is.

It hurts my brain to ponder how old movies would be received today, maybe its feasible as its about a time travel movie

but anyhoo. I guess it comes back to a couple of questions , are a % of the traditional audience for certain movies being alienated and if so is it just movie makers calculating that they are acceptable losses because they anticipate more growth from other demographics? At the end of the day people like what they like and have no obligation to buy the next product. Secondly if a TV show or movie goes “woke” does it increase the chances of the show objectively being less good. Or a side point are the movie companies deliberately putting out contentious trailers/info to generate “outrage” so that more people write articles that they wouldn’t have done otherwise in the hope that it puts more bums on seats in the end? What amuses me about the progressive press is that they end up trying to out woke each other and start attacking the movie and actors anyway
I watched Captain Marvel on a flight recently (so didn’t pay for it ha) , it was grand as far as Marvel movies go, one thing they seem to be doing though is pretending they are breaking new ground when they aren’t. The next Bond be may end up being cookie cutter or it may not who knows.

Terminator: Dark Fate **Spoilers from post 983**

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Terminator: Dark Fate Spoilers from post 983