Proposal for sliding scale of speeding fines / points

11-12-2018 10:02am #1

Long overdue in my opinion and will work a lot better than the current system at dealing with the most dangerous offenders, issues with detection notwithstanding

Proposal for rising fines, points for higher speeds

http://www.rte.ie/news/2018/1211/1016431-cabinet/

The Cabinet will today consider legislation that would introduce new fines for motorists caught speeding.

Minister for Transport Shane Ross will bring a memo to Government on the new Road Traffic Bill.

The legislation will change the fines motorists pay when they are found to be driving over the speed limit.

It would mean that speeding would no longer be viewed as a single offence.

Instead, those driving up to 10km/h above the speed limit could pay a fine of €80 and receive between three and five penalty points.

If you drive up to 20km/h over the allowed speed there would be a €150 fine and between four and six points placed on your licence.

Motorists driving between 20km/h and 30km/h over the speed limit will be hit with a €200 fine and up to seven penalty points.

Anyone driving in excess of 30km/h above the speed limits will be charged with dangerous driving.

Dravokivich · 11-12-2018 10:49am

Its just for appearances. It won't change the rotten behaviour of a lot of people on the road regardless of the enforcement. There's plenty of drivers who think speed limits don't apply when they can see any gap between them and the bumper in front.

Macy0161 · 11-12-2018 11:03am

Speeding is endemic in this state. But, like his drink driving changes, this is all for show without a big bump in enforcement.

Auguste Comte · 11-12-2018 11:07am

We don't need any more laws we have plenty, they just need to be enforced.

New laws that won't be enforced are as useless as the minister proposing them.

cdaly_ · 11-12-2018 11:53am

OTOH, at some point we'll get enforcement and they'll be ready...

Bray Head · 11-12-2018 12:02pm

Macy0161 wrote: »

Speeding is endemic in this state.

Not really. I've driven all over Europe and adherence to speed limits in Ireland is taken very seriously.

In many countries you don't get points at all for the first 15 km/h, just a fine.

Ireland is already pretty stringent in seeing you lose your licence for driving at 67km/h four times on a 60km/h stretch of dual carriageway.

magicbastarder · 11-12-2018 12:11pm

Bray Head wrote: »

Ireland is already pretty stringent in seeing you lose your licence for driving at 67km/h four times on a 60km/h stretch of dual carriageway.

you're joking, yes?
or are you talking about theory rather than actual practice?

Macy0161 · 11-12-2018 12:21pm

Bray Head wrote: »

Not really. I've driven all over Europe and adherence to speed limits in Ireland is taken very seriously.

In many countries you don't get points at all for the first 15 km/h, just a fine.

Ireland is already pretty stringent in seeing you lose your licence for driving at 67km/h four times on a 60km/h stretch of dual carriageway.

Penalties maybe there, enforcement isn't, and aherence isn't.

Isambard · 11-12-2018 12:38pm

It seems to me that most people actually drive under the limit . You can test this yourself by comparing the number of vehicles you pass with the number that pass you. I stick pretty exactly to the speed limits as per my satnav and pass dozens of cars whilst maybe only a handful pass me. Many of those passing me are only marginally over the limit and a sliding scale would penalise the others that hammer past me whilst being a wake up call for marginal speeders..

kippy · 11-12-2018 12:42pm

I think this is completely pointless.
All it does is add an added layer (or two) or complexity for absolutely all involved.
Makes the chances of messing up paperwork/legal challenge etc far easier.

As others have said, we have adequate rules and regulations governing speeding as it stands. But appropriate enforcement is where the issues lie.

11-12-2018 1:41pm

kippy wrote: »

All it does is add an added layer (or two) or complexity for absolutely all involved.
Makes the chances of messing up paperwork/legal challenge etc far easier.

If anything it does the opposite in that it removes subjective assessment of the crime and risk i.e. regardless of the road, or the limit, if you are over the limit by X then Y applies. It really can't be much simpler while increasing the penalty based on the stupidity of the driver involved.

kippy · 11-12-2018 4:02pm

Deleted User wrote: »

If anything it does the opposite in that it removes subjective assessment of the crime and risk i.e. regardless of the road, or the limit, if you are over the limit by X then Y applies. It really can't be much simpler while increasing the penalty based on the stupidity of the driver involved.

That's all well and good till you try implement it.

Much easier, 80% of people who break the advised speed limit get caught, than 5% of people who break the advised speed limit with varying degrees of punishment get caught.

Infini · 11-12-2018 5:30pm

Bray Head wrote: »

Not really. I've driven all over Europe and adherence to speed limits in Ireland is taken very seriously.

In many countries you don't get points at all for the first 15 km/h, just a fine.

Ireland is already pretty stringent in seeing you lose your licence for driving at 67km/h four times on a 60km/h stretch of dual carriageway.

Honestly this would be better the points system should be for dangerous drivers but not punitive for going over the limit slightly.

ohnonotgmail · 11-12-2018 6:12pm

Should the proposed changes not use the percentage over the limit instead?

11-12-2018 6:19pm

kippy wrote: »

That's all well and good till you try implement it.

Much easier, 80% of people who break the advised speed limit get caught, than 5% of people who break the advised speed limit with varying degrees of punishment get caught.

Please elaborate on how to implement that in a way that is feasible, logical, balanced and economical

mickdw · 11-12-2018 6:27pm

Will they be able to make a dangerous driving charge stick though.
Take an example of someone doing 111 km per hour on an empty dual carriageway with an 80 limit, speeding fine yes, points ok but dangerous driving is a farce.
80 km in a 50 outside a school would be a different scenario but they are not making the distinction.
This won't be supported in government. Watered down proposal on the way I'd say.
In my opinion, the first 15 km/h over the the 80 100 and 120 limits should be fine only with current points levels remaining for higher speeds.
Dangerous driving be discretionary.

whisky_galore · 11-12-2018 9:33pm

Window dressing from the most useless minister for transport to date.

Victor · 11-12-2018 9:44pm

mickdw wrote: »

Take an example of someone doing 111 km per hour on an empty dual carriageway with an 80 limit, speeding fine yes, points ok but dangerous driving is a farce.

Most dual carriageways with an 80km/h limit are suburban (with many junctions or private accesses), tunnels or toll plazas. Not places where you should be doing 111km/h.

Irish Steve · 11-12-2018 11:19pm

If there are going to be punitive actions taken, then it is incumbent on the County Councils to get the signage right, I can think of a number of roads around this area where the posted limit varies depending on which direction you enter the road from. There are also some roads that have completely inappropriate limits on them, but that's probably a subject for another thread.

If they want to get really picky, then as far as I am concerned, exceeding the limit (regardless of what it is) within 200 meters of a school during term time and school hours should result in a doubling of the relevant fine, as should all illegal parking within the school limit. Ideally, the limit during term time and school hours should be 30 Kph0000, but that would require some intelligent speed limit signs to be installed.

mickdw · 11-12-2018 11:24pm

Most but not all. There are numerous cases of badly classified roads so my point stands and that is that I can see great difficulty if making a dangerous driving charge stick in front of a judge where a driver was doing 111 km/hr in what could be deemed to be ideal conditions. Dry road, quiet road, excellent visibility etc.
Indeed if we take your example of an 80 km/hr dual carriageway where there are lots of local access etc, that is a legal limit of 80 allowable on a dark wet crowded road in a car that meets minimum standards. To suggest that 111 on the same road on a dry day with quiet traffic in a good car is dangerous driving is ludicrous.
I don't argue with someone getting points in that scenario but a dangerous driving conviction is very significant and shouldn't be cheapened by automatically applying that charge accord the board once a set of numbers are exceeded.

magicbastarder · 12-12-2018 12:06am

mickdw wrote: »

I can see great difficulty if making a dangerous driving charge stick in front of a judge where a driver was doing 111 km/hr in what could be deemed to be ideal conditions. Dry road, quiet road, excellent visibility etc.

you mean nothing to distract the driver from the fact that he or she is exceeding the speed limit by a factor of nearly 40%?
if a driver is driving in these conditions at that speed, there are two explanations:
1) they don't realise.
or 2) they don't care.
either position cannot be defended.

Doyler365 · 12-12-2018 12:23am

People driving far too slow on our roads is worse than speeding. Causes tail backs and has people driving too close together to pass the offending person out

Red Alert · 12-12-2018 12:27am

It’s overly punitive. Needs to start with one point and work upwards, not starting with the big hammer of 3 points. The RSA and the biased extreme road safety campaigners who seem to have Ross under their influence need to be put back in their box.

mickdw · 12-12-2018 12:30am

magicbastarder wrote: »

mickdw wrote: »

I can see great difficulty if making a dangerous driving charge stick in front of a judge where a driver was doing 111 km/hr in what could be deemed to be ideal conditions. Dry road, quiet road, excellent visibility etc.

you mean nothing to distract the driver from the fact that he or she is exceeding the speed limit by a factor of nearly 40%?
if a driver is driving in these conditions at that speed, there are two explanations:
1) they don't realise.
or 2) they don't care.
either position cannot be defended.

Yes either they don't realise or don't care however as I said, I agree with points and or fine but is it dangerous driving?
There is a lesser offence or driving without due care and attention and to skip past that one straight to dangerous driving is going to be troublesome imo.
If this proposal did get through, it would be a bad day for motorists but it won't come into law in it's current form.

Victor · 12-12-2018 6:10am

Irish Steve wrote: »

If there are going to be punitive actions taken, then it is incumbent on the County Councils to get the signage right, I can think of a number of roads around this area where the posted limit varies depending on which direction you enter the road from. There are also some roads that have completely inappropriate limits on them, but that's probably a subject for another thread.

Report these instances to the council.

magicbastarder · 12-12-2018 10:51am

mickdw wrote: »

Yes either they don't realise or don't care however as I said, I agree with points and or fine but is it dangerous driving?

if they're being that inattentive, or that careless, is it a moot debate about whether it's dangerous?

Dravokivich · 12-12-2018 11:18am

Irish Steve wrote: »

If there are going to be punitive actions taken, then it is incumbent on the County Councils to get the signage right, I can think of a number of roads around this area where the posted limit varies depending on which direction you enter the road from. There are also some roads that have completely inappropriate limits on them, but that's probably a subject for another thread.

Roads here can have different speed limits when going in different directions. N7 around Newlands being an example. Going outbound after Red Cow, it's 80, over Newlands Cross, it's 100. Going inbound over Newlands Cross it's 80. lead up to Red Cow it's 60.

Irish Steve wrote: »

If they want to get really picky, then as far as I am concerned, exceeding the limit (regardless of what it is) within 200 meters of a school during term time and school hours should result in a doubling of the relevant fine, as should all illegal parking within the school limit. Ideally, the limit during term time and school hours should be 30 Kph0000, but that would require some intelligent speed limit signs to be installed.

I've seen those variable speed signs at schools in Clondalkin and Chapelizod. ROTR also reference them. You're arguing for something that's already in place? Even driving through country roads, speed limits are noticably reduced around schools, going down from 80 to 50. Or do you think that's not enough? The people who couldn't car less, won't care more with increased signage or more variable speed limit signs. They should just have their points run up and be taken off the road.

Duckjob · 12-12-2018 1:34pm

Irish Steve wrote: »

If they want to get really picky, then as far as I am concerned, exceeding the limit (regardless of what it is) within 200 meters of a school during term time and school hours should result in a doubling of the relevant fine, as should all illegal parking within the school limit. Ideally, the limit during term time and school hours should be 30 Kph0000, but that would require some intelligent speed limit signs to be installed.

Why does it have to be complicated by term time / school hours. What is there's an evening event on in the school? Or even just kids walking to /from school grounds for extra curricular activities?

The time difference between driving a km at 50kph and driving it at 30kph is about 45 seconds or so.

Is it too much to ask people to slow the f down to 30kph for a km or so, regardless of the time of day or night, and show a bit of citizenship and respect for the safetly of their communities ?

Irish Steve · 12-12-2018 11:35pm

Dravokivich wrote: »

Roads here can have different speed limits when going in different directions. N7 around Newlands being an example. Going outbound after Red Cow, it's 80, over Newlands Cross, it's 100. Going inbound over Newlands Cross it's 80. lead up to Red Cow it's 60.

That's dual carriageway, and I'm aware of it. The roads I'm thinking of are around my area, and single track roads, so no central median, I can't see any logic that the road can be one speed going (say) North, and a different speed going South. That's illogical even by Irish Standards.

I've seen those variable speed signs at schools in Clondalkin and Chapelizod. ROTR also reference them. You're arguing for something that's already in place? Even driving through country roads, speed limits are noticably reduced around schools, going down from 80 to 50. Or do you think that's not enough? The people who couldn't car less, won't care more with increased signage or more variable speed limit signs. They should just have their points run up and be taken off the road.

They might be in place in some areas, the perfect solution would be to have them in place at all schools, and yes, ideally, given all the discussions about the reduction in injuries at 30 kph, I'd like to see 30 in place, but given the problems it would cause in rural areas on higher speed roads, the proper solution would be for the signs to be controlled from the school (using something like smart phone connection to the devices) to allow them to be activated when the premises are in use, regardless of the time of day, so if they are on, it means there is something happening NOW.

That should get more respect than a blanket 24/7/365 limit that is realistically only needed for a maximum of 3 hours a day, 5 days a week and for about 8 months of the year, and even more so if the fines/points are doubled for ignoring them.

There is no need to slow traffic dramatically on a rural road for the 3 months of the summer when the place is closed up and not in use, so yes, selective speed limits is the best idea of them all, and 30 has been proved to be appropriate where there are high numbers of children.

And yes, there are plenty of morons who don't care that they are around a school, so making it even more costly in terms of points and fines might help them get the message, and yes, if they don't, then they will be off the road even sooner. Win Win.

A 30 speed limit close to the school might also persuade some parents that walking to school with the kids is quicker than putting them in the car.

PanhardPL · 12-12-2018 11:51pm

Red Alert wrote: »

It’s overly punitive. Needs to start with one point and work upwards, not starting with the big hammer of 3 points. The RSA and the biased extreme road safety campaigners who seem to have Ross under their influence need to be put back in their box.

Ross and the RSA should take a look at the way they manage speeding in Spain,
Speeding Fines in Spain (1).jpg

Victor · 13-12-2018 3:18am

Irish Steve wrote: »

That's dual carriageway, and I'm aware of it. The roads I'm thinking of are around my area, and single track roads, so no central median, I can't see any logic that the road can be one speed going (say) North, and a different speed going South. That's illogical even by Irish Standards.

Approaching a junction could have a lower speed limit than going away from the junction.

PanhardPL wrote: »

Ross and the RSA should take a look at the way they manage speeding in Spain,
Speeding Fines in Spain (1).jpg

Do you have the original source, so I can see what note 3 is?

koheim · 13-12-2018 10:28am

In Norway:
When the speed limit on the spot is 60 km/h or lower and the speed travelled is

up to 5 km/h 80 Euro
up to 10 km/h 200 Euro
up to 15 km/h 400 Euro
up to 20 km/h 550 Euro
up to 25 km/h 850 Euro
over 25 km/h 1000 Euro and loss of license for 2 years
= less road deaths

I do not see any issues with what Ross wants to bring in, it makes perfect sense to me. It is not right that you get 80 euro for driving 5 or 40 km/h over the speedlimit, it has to be staggered. It also have to hit the pocket hard because a change of behaviour is needed.

PanhardPL · 13-12-2018 4:02pm

Victor wrote: »

Approaching a junction could have a lower speed limit than going away from the junction.

Do you have the original source, so I can see what note 3 is?

http://www.speedingeurope.com/spain/

Irish Steve · 14-12-2018 1:30am

Victor wrote: »

Approaching a junction could have a lower speed limit than going away from the junction.

That's possible, but not the case on one of the local roads I am thinking of, and the issue for me is that if a driver comes into the road from the North, and is (as per the signs) subject to a 60 Kph limit, and then turns off that road onto a side road, of which there are several, and then later comes out of that side road and turns North again, that driver will not see the 50 Kph signs that are half a kilometer away, further down the road he turned off previously.

If there was to be a speed check on the road, which speed limit would then be enforced? Would it be the one that the driver saw when entering (60 Kph) or the 50 Kph limit that the driver never saw as he didn't pass the signs as part of the journey? I'd hate to be having to appear before a judge and make that case, someone who's not a local would not even realise that there are potentially 2 different speed limits in effect on the same section of road, if visibility of the sign is the requirement, and if it's not, what's the defence in that case, the only signs the driver will have seen will have been the 60 Kph signs.

Hopefully, the case would never get to court, and if it did, the judge would (rightly in my view) throw it out, as the driver never saw the lower limit signs, as he would not have passed them.

Not a good way to enforce things though.

It also raises the question of what speed limit applies on the side roads off that road, come from the North, and the estate roads are in theory 60 Kph, from the South, the limit would be 50 Kph, based on the signs that would be passed. That's clearly not viable.

Victor · 14-12-2018 7:24am

Do you want to name the road?

SC024 · 14-12-2018 9:17pm

Its a load of nonsense by a lazy attention seeking politician trying desperately to be seen to be doing something. Equivalent of a bad labourer spending the whole day sweeping room A whilst room B next door is halfway to the ceiling with rubbish is left for someone willing to sort it.

taking the easy option same as his doing away with the 3 points for 1st offence between 50 / 80 mg limits. If anyone seriously speaks out about it you will have the "somebody please think of the children" brigade out in force.

Irish Steve · 17-12-2018 2:52pm

Victor wrote: »

Do you want to name the road?

Ballybin Road, Ashbourne. Speed limit changes while on R135 (old N2) to 60 Kph. There are 50 Kph signs coming in from the 80 limit close to Height For Hire ( near the overpass on the M2). There is also a speed limit sign on one side (east) of the Ballybin road when coming on to it from the Northern end, also 60 Kph, but which way it's supposed to be facing is not clear at present.

There are 3 side roads leading into industrial estate areas, and a number of (probably private) access roads into industrial units, as well as the retail park area, and none of them have 50 Kph limit signs, so as I understand it, they inherit the limit of the road that feeds them.

Lumen · 19-12-2018 8:24am

Given that you can kill someone and still not meet the criteria for dangerous driving (instead be convicted for careless driving), getting a dangerous driving conviction for breaking a statutory limit without regard for conditions or circumstances seems ridiculously disproportionate.

Corben Dallas · 19-12-2018 7:08pm

Overly harsh and downright stupid graduated limits....

Has anyone from the RSA given any thought to the fact that if irish Motorists are constantly watching the dial for fear of going over by 10kph ( less than 6mph in old money) that they wont be keeping proper attention to the road and conditions..... ie this this might actually cause more accidents!!!!?????

....or is it a revenue generating exercise for both the Government AND the Insurance Industry.

Less flag waving crusades Ross...u wont be a Minister for much longer.

Things for Ross to do:

1 Get the darts to run every 10 mins
2 Set up a Transport Police with powers of arrest
3 ACTUALLY OPEN promised Garda Station(s).
4 Clean up the disgraceful and HUGE Anti-Social behavior problem on Luas, Dart, Commuter Rail and even Dublin Bus.
5 Offer a proper secure late night public transport service (After 12pm) which includes OUTSIDE Dublin
6 Ensure affordable Tourist Accommodation is available to Tourists (not Hostels)

... start on those, you seem to have far too much time on your hands.

magicbastarder · 19-12-2018 10:26pm

Corben Dallas wrote: »

Has anyone from the RSA given any thought to the fact that if irish Motorists are constantly watching the dial for fear of going over by 10kph ( less than 6mph in old money) that they wont be keeping proper attention to the road and conditions..... ie this this might actually cause more accidents!!!!?????

if keeping within the speed limit is that difficult for a driver that it'll tax their poor wickle brain to the point that they crash, maybe they should stay off the ****ing road.
keeping an eye on the speed does not take that much brain power. unless you've a tiny brain.

AndrewJRenko · 19-12-2018 11:01pm

magicbastarder wrote: »

if keeping within the speed limit is that difficult for a driver that it'll tax their poor wickle brain to the point that they crash, maybe they should stay off the ****ing road.
keeping an eye on the speed does not take that much brain power. unless you've a tiny brain.

Many newer cars have a speed limiter built in, but I guess this would require knowing how to use the controls fully, so it's probably not a practical option.

alan partridge aha · 19-12-2018 11:24pm

When heading to Blanche today, the limit is 30kph when you come off M50 and going around to join N3. Fooking nobody does that.

Stephen15 · 19-12-2018 11:39pm

Corben Dallas wrote: »

Overly harsh and downright stupid graduated limits....

Has anyone from the RSA given any thought to the fact that if irish Motorists are constantly watching the dial for fear of going over by 10kph ( less than 6mph in old money) that they wont be keeping proper attention to the road and conditions..... ie this this might actually cause more accidents!!!!?????

....or is it a revenue generating exercise for both the Government AND the Insurance Industry.

Less flag waving crusades Ross...u wont be a Minister for much longer.

Things for Ross to do:

1 Get the darts to run every 10 mins
2 Set up a Transport Police with powers of arrest
3 ACTUALLY OPEN promised Garda Station(s).
4 Clean up the disgraceful and HUGE Anti-Social behavior problem on Luas, Dart, Commuter Rail and even Dublin Bus.
5 Offer a proper secure late night public transport service (After 12pm) which includes OUTSIDE Dublin
6 Ensure affordable Tourist Accommodation is available to Tourists (not Hostels)

... start on those, you seem to have far too much time on your hands.

And don't forget build the metro and get bus connects done.

28-12-2018 2:50am

Over 400 people caught speeding on Stephens Day 2018

http://www.rte.ie/news/ireland/2018/1227/1019263-speeding/

More than 400 drivers were caught speeding on Irish roads on St Stephen's Day.

An Garda Síochána said that 42,388 vehicles were monitored yesterday as part of the Christmas and New Year road safety campaign.

Of those, 414 vehicles were found to be in excess of the speed limit.

Examples of the speeds detected include:

124km/h in a 60km/h zone N7 Palmerstown Demesne, Naas, Kildare (roadworks)

142km/h in a 100km/h zone N25, Ballinaboola, Wexford.

112km/h in an 80km/h zone R339, Oranmore, Galway

81km/h in a 50km/h zone, R245, Carrigart, Donegal

Zebra3 · 28-12-2018 8:19pm

SC024 wrote: »

Its a load of nonsense by a lazy attention seeking politician trying desperately to be seen to be doing something. Equivalent of a bad labourer spending the whole day sweeping room A whilst room B next door is halfway to the ceiling with rubbish is left for someone willing to sort it.

taking the easy option same as his doing away with the 3 points for 1st offence between 50 / 80 mg limits. If anyone seriously speaks out about it you will have the "somebody please think of the children" brigade out in force.

Won't someone think of the poor speeding motorists.

magicbastarder · 28-12-2018 11:04pm

Deleted User wrote: »

Over 400 people caught speeding on Stephens Day 2018

Motorcyclist speeding at 198km/h among 476 caught yesterday

Less than one per cent of the 101,900 vehicles monitored by safety cameras detected by gardaí on Thursday as part of its Christmas and New Year road safety campaign were speeding.

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland/irish-news/motorcyclist-speeding-at-198km-h-among-476-caught-yesterday-1.3742975

my bull**** detector is tingling. less than one per cent were stopped, maybe.

Eric Cartman · 28-12-2018 11:32pm

whatever about the opinions on whether graduated limits should be there etc... being <10km over the limit should just be a token 50 quid fine or something, points for that is complete madness.

AndrewJRenko · 28-12-2018 11:40pm

magicbastarder wrote: »

Motorcyclist speeding at 198km/h among 476 caught yesterday

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland/irish-news/motorcyclist-speeding-at-198km-h-among-476-caught-yesterday-1.3742975

my bull**** detector is tingling. less than one per cent were stopped, maybe.

The figures generally quoted by AGS are so far away from those measured by the RSA that your tingling detector is proving accurate.

On the broader issue, it looks like the wagons are circling for Ross.

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/crime-and-law/attorney-general-raises-serious-concerns-about-shane-ross-s-anti-speeding-measures-1.3741818

Infini · 29-12-2018 8:07am

Eric Cartman wrote: »

whatever about the opinions on whether graduated limits should be there etc... being <10km over the limit should just be a token 50 quid fine or something, points for that is complete madness.

We should be saving points for more serious stuff like drink driving and that. 3 points for only being a few K/M over the speed limit has always been seen as punitive and OTT. It also fails to take into consideration overtaking where you may have to go above the limit to safely overtake someone.

29-12-2018 8:44am

Honestly, having read the last load of posts, I still don't see a single logical reason not to get more strict with those who break the speed limits. All I see are a lot of people looking for leniency for this reason or that.

Simply put, the existing measures have not been effective in curbing the tendency to break the limit for a dangerously high number of drivers.

Therefore its come time to deal with the issue in such a way as to force the most dangerous and least considerate offenders, off the road.

Lastly, Ross, for all his failings, is no fool. Propose the current method, get everyone to say "wtf r u doing, percentages r smrtr!" then simply implement the percentages version and everyone thinks "yeah we told him!!". He walks off into the sunset having over hauled the penalties for all future generations

kippy · 29-12-2018 10:15am

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Honestly, having read the last load of posts, I still don't see a single logical reason not to get more strict with those who break the speed limits. All I see are a lot of people looking for leniency for this reason or that.

Simply put, the existing measures have not been effective in curbing the tendency to break the limit for a dangerously high number of drivers.

Therefore its come time to deal with the issue in such a way as to force the most dangerous and least considerate offenders, off the road.

Lastly, Ross, for all his failings, is no fool. Propose the current method, get everyone to say "wtf r u doing, percentages r smrtr!" then simply implement the percentages version and everyone thinks "yeah we told him!!". He walks off into the sunset having over hauled the penalties for all future generations

Implement the existing laws without over complicating for everyone. Job done.

Proposal for sliding scale of speeding fines / points

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