JFK Assassination Autopsy Details Revealed After 55 Years

weisses · 12-12-2018 10:15pm

Dohnjoe wrote: »

It's a conspiracy "theory" forum isn't it, where's the theories?

Plenty of theories ......

Its not the conspiracy "evidence" forum

Dohnjoe · 12-12-2018 10:23pm

weisses wrote: »

Plenty of theories ......

Its not the conspiracy "evidence" forum

"What can be asserted without evidence can be dismissed without evidence"

Tipsy McSwagger · 12-12-2018 10:24pm

The Nal wrote: »

In my opinion they came to correct conclusion but in the wrong way. Lots and lots of errors. They rushed it as there was an election coming up and the longer they took, the more people would scream conspiracy. I'm not claiming it was perfect. Far from it.

Warren Commission aside, the Dallas Police, the FBI, The Ramsey Clark Panel, The Rockefeller Commission and the HSCA (bogus acoustic evidence aside) all came to same conclusions.

No one has found anything credible in 55 years to point towards anything but Oswald being the sole assassin. Lots of theories, no evidence. Literally not one shred of credible evidence.

You’re wrong as they kept delaying and delaying the deadline even though they were under serious pressure to finish.. If they wanted to rush it they would have just depended on the FBI reports, when in reality they conducted a massive and independent investigation themselves. No investigation is perfect but the Warren Commission report was arguably the greatest criminal investigation of the 20th century.

Tipsy McSwagger · 12-12-2018 10:33pm

Whiplash85 wrote: »

With reference to Ruby. Again this guy had links to mob in New Orleans. He was visited by mob in prison. Dancers from New Orleans worked in his club. We know Dallas cops frequented his club. He was kicked out of mob in Chicago. He wired money to a lap dancer in Western Union after parking his car 1 block away from underground Dallas police station. It's naive to think that Ruby did not carry out this hit for the mob. He was stalking Oswald for 2 days and mob likely knew that Ruby had the ear of some of Dallas finest law enforcement officers. They probably made Ruby an offer he could not refuse.

Ruby feared for his life. He wanted to be transferred to Washington. Earl Warren and associates visited him. Warren said and I am paraphrasing here "Well Jack if you fear for your life I would not reveal what you know". This coming from the guy who headed up the investigation into the assassination. You could not make it up.

But that’s what you have just done. You’re talking shyte.

weisses · 12-12-2018 10:37pm

Dohnjoe wrote: »

"What can be asserted without evidence can be dismissed without evidence"

You can do whatever you like ... I wish you would reflect on your own contributions in a similar fashion

So do you believe Jenkins ? or is he another deranged conspiracy Nut ?

Timberrrrrrrr · 12-12-2018 10:40pm

weisses wrote: »

Do you believe the affidavit to be accurate ?

Do you? Because if you do then there were only 3 shots fired, witnessed by a police officer who would know what shots sound like.

If CS is saying the officer is weong and there were.more than 3 shots then surely he could be wrong about the rest of his statement.

Also where are the statement from ithers who were present verifying this one?

Cheerful Spring · 12-12-2018 10:43pm

Whiplash85 wrote: »

I was more questioning the plausibility of the lone sniper in situ in the south eastern corner of the 6th floor of the TSBD. i.e. if I was the lone sniper the shot would have been a full frontal one coming up Houston gradually getting easier as opposed to a target moving away and getting smaller on Elm. The Dal Tex building always interested me. I reckon one of 4 teams of shooters I alluded to previously were located in 2nd or 4th floor here.

In reality there was no proper investigation. Certainly beyond reasonable doubt was never achieved. Warren Commission received their dictat from FBI director Hoover in which he said public must be convinced that Oswald did this alone. Any appetite or search for the truth ended when Ruby conveniently killed Oswald and the best piece of evidence we could have ever had. Any anyway what were qualifications of men sitting on warren commission. were they forensic experts? Would we even have heard of the single bullet theory had James Tague not being hit by Shrapnel. I dont think so. What relationship or connections did LBJ have with the guys on the warren commission? Certainly for me the WC does not hold any water as the terms of reference were deliberately too narrow and any counter arguments expunged. it is almost irksome when I hear the "WC found this" or the "WC stated this happened".

Oswald was set up in my opinion. They were laying the groundwork in Mexico to set him up for the fall.

The Cuban Embassy Released this photo to HSCA and they claimed this was the Oswald who visited them on Sep 1963

This is the Oswald who showed up at the Russian Embassy in Mexico. The Oliver stone JFK films show this guy. It was handed to the FBI , this picture.

JJayoo · 12-12-2018 10:44pm

Al Bundy did it......

weisses · 12-12-2018 10:48pm

Timberrrrrrrr wrote: »

Do you? Because if you do then there were only 3 shots fired, witnessed by a police officer who would know what shots sound like.

If CS is saying the officer is weong and there were.more than 3 shots then surely he could be wrong about the rest of his statement.

Also where are the statement from ithers who were present verifying this one?

well apparently he was wrong about the rifle.

Do you believe Jenkins ?

Cheerful Spring · 12-12-2018 10:50pm

In 1978 former CIA accountant James B. Wilcott swore under oath before the House Select Committee on Assassinations that Lee Harvey Oswald was a "regular employee" of the Central Intelligence Agency, and that Oswald received "a full-time salary for agent work for doing CIA operational work." He testified that he was told by other CIA employees that money he ( personally disbursed to an encrypted account was for "the Oswald project or for Oswald." Wilcott's testimony was kept secret for decades,

http://harveyandlee.net/Wilcott/Wil_full.htm

Dohnjoe · 12-12-2018 10:54pm

weisses wrote: »

I wish you would reflect on your own contributions in a similar fashion

Right so.. if I contribute to the thread by questioning a theory but providing none of my own, that's okay, or it's not okay?

Cheerful Spring · 12-12-2018 10:57pm

Timberrrrrrrr wrote: »

Do you? Because if you do then there were only 3 shots fired, witnessed by a police officer who would know what shots sound like.

If CS is saying the officer is weong and there were.more than 3 shots then surely he could be wrong about the rest of his statement.

Also where are the statement from ithers who were present verifying this one?

Capt Fritz never made an Affidavit, probably due to his senior position. Eugene Boone made an affidavit he found the gun with Seymour and he also stated the gun appeared to be a Mauser 7.65mm rifle. You find that online. He does not mention anything about a live shell inside the chamber of the gun, but maybe he did not witness it?

weisses · 12-12-2018 10:59pm

Dohnjoe wrote: »

Right so.. if I contribute to the thread by questioning a theory but providing none of my own, that's okay, or it's not okay?

You can question anything you want .... But its a bit rich asking for evidence for theories but refusing to provide the same for a theory you believe to be accurate

So do you believe Jenkins ?

Timberrrrrrrr · 12-12-2018 11:04pm

weisses wrote: »

well apparently he was wrong about the rifle.

Do you believe Jenkins ?

I believe kennedy was killed by LHO a lone gunman.

Cheerful Spring · 12-12-2018 11:06pm

weisses wrote: »

You can question anything you want .... But its a bit rich asking for evidence for theories but refusing to provide the same for a theory you believe to be accurate

So do you believe Jenkins ?

You only have to look into Oswald past to realise he was an intelligence asset. You don't fly in and out of Soviet Union and not be debriefed when you return. Oswald was not interviewed or anything. Oswald was stationed at a CIA base in Japan where secret missions of U2 plane took off to spy on Russia. Oswald just happens to speak Russian and does not have any family that live in Russia.

Dohnjoe · 12-12-2018 11:17pm

weisses wrote: »

You can question anything you want .... But its a bit rich asking for evidence for theories but refusing to provide the same for a theory you believe to be accurate

But you don't believe this applies to you or a single person in this thread questioning the theory?

Cheerful Spring · 12-12-2018 11:19pm

No softball questions in this interview. Richard Helms was asked did the CIA kill Kennedy. He stumbled and admitted the CIA looked into the day of the killing. Just watch his face when he realises he ****ed up. Richard Helms was one time head of the CIA.

The Nal · 13-12-2018 9:56am

Cheerful Spring wrote: »

The CNN video you posted the guy holding the rifle describes it as Italian made rifle. That's how I know that footage is not from 22 of Nov. It not in dispute, it was the FBI who told the Dallas Police it was a Carcano and that did not happen till sometime after the 24th of Nov.

It printed in very small writing on the barrel. You can't see when you zoom in to look at the rifle I try looking and the picture is blurry. Try yourself.

So just to clarify, you believe that the rifle was never filmed live on TV on the 22nd and that the millions of Americans who remember watching it and millions of others who saw it around the world - hundreds of millions of people - all imagined it or something? You're claiming that the news footage that was broadcast live that day, the world famous footage that everyone alive at the time remembers is not from that day? I don't get you. Its news footage from the 22nd. Fact.

Show me the picture you can see where it says Mauser please.

Cheerful Spring wrote: »

Direct your questions to the people involved in the cover-up.

Given all you've claimed here that has to be one of the most pathetic things I've ever read.

Whiplash85 wrote: »

With reference to Ruby. Again this guy had links to mob in New Orleans. He was visited by mob in prison. Dancers from New Orleans worked in his club. We know Dallas cops frequented his club. He was kicked out of mob in Chicago. He wired money to a lap dancer in Western Union after parking his car 1 block away from underground Dallas police station. It's naive to think that Ruby did not carry out this hit for the mob. He was stalking Oswald for 2 days and mob likely knew that Ruby had the ear of some of Dallas finest law enforcement officers. They probably made Ruby an offer he could not refuse.

Ruby feared for his life. He wanted to be transferred to Washington. Earl Warren and associates visited him. Warren said and I am paraphrasing here "Well Jack if you fear for your life I would not reveal what you know". This coming from the guy who headed up the investigation into the assassination. You could not make it up.

"probably", "most likely" doesn't cut it though does it?

Thats not what Earl Warren said and not what he meant. Even paraphrasing. Why not post what he actually said? Why not post the truth?

Why not read all of Rubys WC testimony and subsequent interviews as opposed to cherry picking and distorting one quote. His WC testimony is very revealing and interesting. Read it.

Cheerful Spring wrote: »

Nal it amazing you deny Ruby mob connections and then ignore he killed Oswald in cold blood. Are you really going to claim Ruby did not kill before. Oswald was his first kill that what you what me to believe?

Show me evidence he was a mob hitman please. Or that he had killed someone before. Its your claim. The onus is on you to provide credible evidence, of any sort.

Ill provide evidence to the contrary. As I have been doing all along.

Read this. You won't I know because theres facts and stuff in there but anyone who thinks Ruby was involved should really read up about him. Hes the last person you would want involved. Read about the people who knew him, his family, his background. Not a single piece of evidence linking him to this.

http://www.jfk-online.com//rubydef.html

As for Oswalds trip to Mexico, Marina said he was going there, his signature is on the hotel log book and the visa application and there are witnesses who interviewed him, identified witnesses who have talked about it. Oswald was in Mexico. Fact.

From the hour mark here.

https://www.pbs.org/video/frontline-who-was-lee-harvey-oswald/

People don't want to read too much about Oswald or Ruby as it won't fit their agenda. Ignorance is bliss I suppose.

weisses · 13-12-2018 10:46am

Timberrrrrrrr wrote: »

I believe kennedy was killed by LHO a lone gunman.

That is not an answer to the very simple question I asked ...

weisses · 13-12-2018 10:47am

Dohnjoe wrote: »

But you don't believe this applies to you or a single person in this thread questioning the theory?

That's why I asked If you believe Jenkins do you ?

Timberrrrrrrr · 13-12-2018 11:38am

weisses wrote: »

That is not an answer to the very simple question I asked ...

Welcome to my world

weisses · 13-12-2018 2:59pm

Timberrrrrrrr wrote: »

Welcome to my world

In your world ..... Do you believe Jenkins ?

Cheerful Spring · 13-12-2018 6:16pm

The Nal wrote: »

So just to clarify, you believe that the rifle was never filmed live on TV on the 22nd and that the millions of Americans who remember watching it and millions of others who saw it around the world - hundreds of millions of people - all imagined it or something? You're claiming that the news footage that was broadcast live that day, the world famous footage that everyone alive at the time remembers is not from that day? I don't get you. Its news footage from the 22nd. Fact.

Show me the picture you can see where it says Mauser please.

Given all you've claimed here that has to be one of the most pathetic things I've ever read.

"probably", "most likely" doesn't cut it though does it?

Thats not what Earl Warren said and not what he meant. Even paraphrasing. Why not post what he actually said? Why not post the truth?

Why not read all of Rubys WC testimony and subsequent interviews as opposed to cherry picking and distorting one quote. His WC testimony is very revealing and interesting. Read it.

Show me evidence he was a mob hitman please. Or that he had killed someone before. Its your claim. The onus is on you to provide credible evidence, of any sort.

Ill provide evidence to the contrary. As I have been doing all along.

Read this. You won't I know because theres facts and stuff in there but anyone who thinks Ruby was involved should really read up about him. Hes the last person you would want involved. Read about the people who knew him, his family, his background. Not a single piece of evidence linking him to this.

http://www.jfk-online.com//rubydef.html

As for Oswalds trip to Mexico, Marina said he was going there, his signature is on the hotel log book and the visa application and there are witnesses who interviewed him, identified witnesses who have talked about it. Oswald was in Mexico. Fact.

From the hour mark here.

https://www.pbs.org/video/frontline-who-was-lee-harvey-oswald/

People don't want to read too much about Oswald or Ruby as it won't fit their agenda. Ignorance is bliss I suppose.

I posted yesterday a video of Detective or Sheriff giving an interview to waiting reporters. This was on 23rd and was still an unidentified rifle on that date. You claimed it was established as a Carcano on the 22th that not true. You can claim whatever you like but the facts are well known.

You even posted a CNN video with your claims. I watched it and obvious some of the footage was not recorded on the 22th.

Go ahead and prove to us all the Dallas police said that rifle was a Carcano on the day of the assassination?

Show me the picture where it says Carcano- Made in Italy?

Ruby obviously killed before and most people agree today he had Mob connections. By the way, he made numerous phone calls to Mobsters in Nov 1963. People who have researched the association found the phone records.

You have ignored the evidence about the Mexico trip. Oswald was not photographed at the Russian Embassy and Cuban Embassy. I posted the picture of a man the Cuban government claims was Oswald, they handed this to HSCA. The other picture was provided by a source within the CIA to the FBI in Sep 1963. That guy was claiming to be Oswald.

If Oswald was there it was not for the reasons people like you claim today. The HSCA own investigative team found no evidence he visited Mexico city. They went there and did on the ground evidence collecting. What they found that file is classified as one of the lawyers involved spoke about it.

Cheerful Spring · 13-12-2018 6:22pm

By the way Nal the guy who drove Lee to work denies he had a gun in a bag.

The fact that Frazier helped train Oswald at his new job and had driven him to Irving several times soon faded from most people’s memories. But another factor remained noteworthy.

Officials assumed that the package Oswald carried to work that morning was the Italian-made rifle he used to kill Kennedy.

Frazier still doesn’t believe it.

When Oswald got in his car that morning, Frazier hardly noticed the bundle he laid on the back seat.

“He told me he was taking some curtain rods for his room,” Frazier said. “I didn’t think much about it.”

Frazier parked his car behind the depository building and revved his engine for a few moments, charging his low battery, and watched Oswald walk about 200 yards into the building with the package under his arm.

In his testimony before the Warren Commission, Frazier said the brown paper package Oswald carried that morning was too short to contain a rifle. Oswald cupped the package in his hand, he said, and it fit under his armpit.

In Washington, Frazier said, he was “pressured” to change his recollection. In the days afterward, he was badgered by the media, harassed by people who didn’t understand his relationship with Oswald and even became fearful for his life.

His testimony was important because investigators had proven that Oswald bought the rifle used in the JFK slaying and they had found a matching palm print on the blunt end of the rifle, but they had no proof that he had it with him that day.

Randle, who was also a leading witness, said recently that when she and Frazier testified before the Warren Commission, “they tried to get us to say that package was much longer than we recalled, but that wasn’t true.”

The commission kept pushing, Frazier said.

“I know what I saw,” he said, “and I’ve never changed one bit.”

https://nypost.com/2008/11/23/the-man-who-drove-oswald-to-work-on-nov-22-1963/

The Nal · 13-12-2018 7:00pm

Cheerful Spring wrote: »

I posted yesterday a video of Detective or Sheriff giving an interview to waiting reporters. This was on 23rd and was still an unidentified rifle on that date. You claimed it was established as a Carcano on the 22th that not true. You can claim whatever you like but the facts are well known.

Do your own research. Newsman clearly says "the rifle that allegedly killed JFK earlier today" and then they guy holding the rifle says "6.5, apparently Italian made 1940". Thats on the 22nd. This isn't up for debate. Its like posting a clip of the World Cup final from 1966 and claiming it didn't happen until the next day.

Cheerful Spring wrote: »

Go ahead and prove to us all the Dallas police said that rifle was a Carcano on the day of the assassination?

Show me the picture where it says Carcano- Made in Italy?

Im not claiming it said Carcano on it. Im claiming it didnt say Mauser like Craig said, who you believe and they believed it to be Italian made at 6pm that day. Wheres the photo you zoomed in on where you said you can see Mauser?

Cheerful Spring wrote: »

Ruby obviously killed before

Evidence please. 2nd time of asking.

Cheerful Spring wrote: »

and most people agree today he had Mob connections.

No, everyone believes he had mob connections. Because he did.

Cheerful Spring wrote: »

By the way, he made numerous phone calls to Mobsters in Nov 1963. People who have researched the association found the phone records.

The "people" were the HSCA. They checked all his records and all but 3 calls were benign. The 3 calls have since been proved as union disputes.

https://themobmuseum.org/blog/jack-ruby-and-telephone-calls-to-mobsters-evidence-of-a-jfk-conspiracy/

If Ruby was in on it, he wouldn't be calling from his home phone anyway would he?

Cheerful Spring wrote: »

You have ignored the evidence about the Mexico trip. Oswald was not photographed at the Russian Embassy and Cuban Embassy. I posted the picture of a man the Cuban government claims was Oswald, they handed this to HSCA. The other picture was provided by a source within the CIA to the FBI in Sep 1963. That guy was claiming to be Oswald.

Considering Oswald was the most recognisable person in the world at that time, you believe that the CIA or whoever were going to put that photo out claiming it was Oswald and no one would notice? Its clearly a clerical mistake.

Why the need for the Mexico cover up/conspiracy? Over complicating a plot for no reason. Adding conspirators and dangers of leaks internationally now. For no gain. "They" already had enough on Oswald with the pro Cuban thing. He had been arrested, on radio, on TV.

Cheerful Spring wrote: »

If Oswald was there it was not for the reasons people like you claim today. The HSCA own investigative team found no evidence he visited Mexico city. They went there and did on the ground evidence collecting. What they found that file is classified as one of the lawyers involved spoke about it.

Lies. Do you lie on purpose? Or do you just not know?

The HSCA dedicated over 300 pages of their report to the Mexico trip.

Here it is - https://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=954#relPageId=5

Their conclusion?

Robert Blakey - the Chief Counsel and Staff Director of the HSCA.

"The committee took very seriously the critics with suspicions about the Mexico City trip. The suspicion was that Oswald didn’t make it at all. That there was an imposter, attempting to frame him in Mexico City. Had that been established, it would indicate a sophisticated effort to frame Oswald, which would immediately draw attention to American intelligence. We obtained from Cuban officials the visa application with his photograph on it and his signature. We verified that it was Oswald’s signature. Oswald, therefore, was in Mexico City."

Heres the interview on video at 1hr 11mins 30 seconds.

https://www.pbs.org/video/frontline-who-was-lee-harvey-oswald/

Great documentary. Stacked with interviews from all important parties, both pro and anti conspiracy. A huge source of information. And very enjoyable to watch. I've posted it 3-4 times but you haven't watched a second of it clearly.

I suppose you wouldn't have time to watch it as you'll be scrambling around pro conspiracy websites for random off tangent tidbits.

Dohnjoe · 13-12-2018 8:41pm

weisses wrote: »

That's why I asked If you believe Jenkins do you ?

Nah, that's not why.

This is a pretty basic concept. If someone wants to assert something happened (JFK being shot by Oswald), then they need to support it with evidence (Warren commission, etc)

If another person wants to assert something else happened, they have to do the same.

It's not complicated. I'm not sure why you get so agitated over it or seem to believe that conspiracy theorists occupy some "special" place that they don't have to support their own theories

As for your Jenkins question, I believe he's one of the team that performed the autopsy on JFK. How many were on the team in total?

Cheerful Spring · 13-12-2018 10:11pm

The Nal wrote: »

Do your own research. Newsman clearly says "the rifle that allegedly killed JFK earlier today" and then they guy holding the rifle says "6.5, apparently Italian made 1940". Thats on the 22nd. This isn't up for debate. Its like posting a clip of the World Cup final from 1966 and claiming it didn't happen until the next day.

Im not claiming it said Carcano on it. Im claiming it didnt say Mauser like Craig said, who you believe and they believed it to be Italian made at 6pm that day. Wheres the photo you zoomed in on where you said you can see Mauser?

Evidence please. 2nd time of asking.

No, everyone believes he had mob connections. Because he did.

The "people" were the HSCA. They checked all his records and all but 3 calls were benign. The 3 calls have since been proved as union disputes.

https://themobmuseum.org/blog/jack-ruby-and-telephone-calls-to-mobsters-evidence-of-a-jfk-conspiracy/

If Ruby was in on it, he wouldn't be calling from his home phone anyway would he?

Considering Oswald was the most recognisable person in the world at that time, you believe that the CIA or whoever were going to put that photo out claiming it was Oswald and no one would notice? Its clearly a clerical mistake.

Why the need for the Mexico cover up/conspiracy? Over complicating a plot for no reason. Adding conspirators and dangers of leaks internationally now. For no gain. "They" already had enough on Oswald with the pro Cuban thing. He had been arrested, on radio, on TV.

Lies. Do you lie on purpose? Or do you just not know?

The HSCA dedicated over 300 pages of their report to the Mexico trip.

Here it is - https://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=954#relPageId=5

Their conclusion?

Robert Blakey - the Chief Counsel and Staff Director of the HSCA.

"The committee took very seriously the critics with suspicions about the Mexico City trip. The suspicion was that Oswald didn’t make it at all. That there was an imposter, attempting to frame him in Mexico City. Had that been established, it would indicate a sophisticated effort to frame Oswald, which would immediately draw attention to American intelligence. We obtained from Cuban officials the visa application with his photograph on it and his signature. We verified that it was Oswald’s signature. Oswald, therefore, was in Mexico City."

Heres the interview on video at 1hr 11mins 30 seconds.

https://www.pbs.org/video/frontline-who-was-lee-harvey-oswald/

Great documentary. Stacked with interviews from all important parties, both pro and anti conspiracy. A huge source of information. And very enjoyable to watch. I've posted it 3-4 times but you haven't watched a second of it clearly.

I suppose you wouldn't have time to watch it as you'll be scrambling around pro conspiracy websites for random off tangent tidbits.

Apparently is not a certainty. Why was the rifle still identified as Mauser 7.65mm rifle for two days? It already got established as 6.5 rifle made in Italy on 22th, you said? Capt Fritz does not say on the 23rd we have identified it as Italian made bolt action rifle. Instead, he says they had found a rifle and unknown type.? Something feels off about what happened here.

Where did Oswald buy the ammunition in Dallas? The Carcano rifle was designed during WW2 and production of the ammunition stopped after the war. Apparently, the ammo was only made for the military after WW2 for a few more years or so. There no information where exactly he got the bullets for the gun?

And for what reason did Roger craig lie? Another officer swore also the gun was a Mauser 7.65mm. You think he made up it all up the officers saw a stamp on the barrel? And you ignored the discrepancy in Seymour Weitzman affivdat were he says a live shell was ejected from the rifle? Care to explain that, a mistake he lied what?

Of course, this police officer who knew Ruby is lying when he said Ruby phoned him and told him they are going to kill him if Oswald brought through the basement. Ruby might have tried to get out of killing Oswald if this officer is not lying? This is not so unbelievable.

One JFK file released in 2017, states Last night we received a call from our Dallas office from a man talking in a calm voice and saying he was a member of a committee organised to kill Oswald. Ruby or someone else?

https://www.archives.gov/files/research/jfk/releases/docid-32263509.pdf

The CIA released that photo to the FBI in Sep 1963. Oswald was an unknown figure to most of the world then. Either the CIA was trying to throw the FBI off or that man was in Mexico claiming to be Oswald at Soviet Embassy? And yet the Cuban Government send a picture of a man who was not Oswald. By the way, HSCA was another government investigation so they will try to position themselves in a way not to discredit the Warren Commission findings.

It's a Visa application that he might be planning a trip to Mexico. Even you right he went to Mexico there no evidence he went to the Cuban and Soviet Embassy. He could have gone there to meet someone his handler or attend some nefarious meeting who knows. I watch it when I have time.

Tipsy McSwagger · 13-12-2018 10:19pm

Cheerful Spring do you think Ruby’s dog was one of the shooters on the grassy knoll?

Cheerful Spring · 13-12-2018 10:21pm

Tipsy McSwagger wrote: »

Cheerful Spring do you think Ruby’s dog was one of the shooters on the grassy knoll?

Ruby dog? Have got a clue what you on about?

Cheerful Spring · 13-12-2018 10:24pm

In regards to the shooters, I think they are loosely affiliated with the CIA. Type of mercenaries the agency used.

The term is sheep-dipped.

The phrase "sheep dipped", is commonly used in intelligence circles. It's a way of saying someone has been given an alternate identity. The best known example being Air America, but also in many other covert ops applications. Not necessarily military. "Those who were accepted got "sheep-dipped" and vanished."

Dipping a sheep gets rid of creepy crawlies. Dipping a person figuratively gets rid of details of his/her former life.
SHEEP-DIPPED - Stripping a soldier of his military uniform and identification so he can pose as a civilian during a covert mission.
https://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=sheep%20dipped

The Nal · 13-12-2018 11:15pm

Oh dear

The Nal · 14-12-2018 10:46am

Cheerful Spring wrote: »

Apparently is not a certainty. Why was the rifle still identified as Mauser 7.65mm rifle for two days? It already got established as 6.5 rifle made in Italy on 22th, you said? Capt Fritz does not say on the 23rd we have identified it as Italian made bolt action rifle. Instead, he says they had found a rifle and unknown type.? Something feels off about what happened here.

"Foreign made, "British made" "Italian made". They didn't place too much importance on it the the time. The fact remains that its a Carcano on the TV on the 22nd before it was handed to the FBI. Even the wildest conspiracy nuts wouldn't doubt that as its clear.

Cheerful Spring wrote: »

Where did Oswald buy the ammunition in Dallas? The Carcano rifle was designed during WW2 and production of the ammunition stopped after the war. Apparently, the ammo was only made for the military after WW2 for a few more years or so. There no information where exactly he got the bullets for the gun?

WTF? You can buy bullets today that will fit that Carcano. Do you think you have to buy "Carcano" bullets to fit a Carcano? Its a 6.5mm rifle.

Oswalds ammo came from 1 of the 4 lots here.

Cheerful Spring wrote: »

And for what reason did Roger craig lie?

Money. Credible conspiracy theorists and his own daughter doesn't believe his story. Hes not credible.

Cheerful Spring wrote: »

Another officer swore also the gun was a Mauser 7.65mm. You think he made up it all up the officers saw a stamp on the barrel? And you ignored the discrepancy in Seymour Weitzman affivdat were he says a live shell was ejected from the rifle? Care to explain that, a mistake he lied what?

There were 4 bullets in the gun. Oswald used 3. Fritz ejected the last round, as per any procedure with a firearm.

Cheerful Spring wrote: »

Of course, this police officer who knew Ruby is lying when he said Ruby phoned him and told him they are going to kill him if Oswald brought through the basement. Ruby might have tried to get out of killing Oswald if this officer is not lying? This is not so unbelievable.

Wheres the evidence for this call? Search the HSCA phone records and show me please.

Cheerful Spring wrote: »

The CIA released that photo to the FBI in Sep 1963. Oswald was an unknown figure to most of the world then. Either the CIA was trying to throw the FBI off or that man was in Mexico claiming to be Oswald at Soviet Embassy? And yet the Cuban Government send a picture of a man who was not Oswald. By the way, HSCA was another government investigation so they will try to position themselves in a way not to discredit the Warren Commission findings.

Hang on, you're claiming the HSCA couldn't find evidence of his trip to Mexico and now that you've been shown that there is - overwhelming evidence - you're claiming the HSCA was a cover up?

Cheerful Spring wrote: »

It's a Visa application that he might be planning a trip to Mexico.

The visa application was for Cuba. He was already in Mexico when it was filled in and signed. By Oswald.

Cheerful Spring wrote: »

Even you right he went to Mexico there no evidence he went to the Cuban and Soviet Embassy.

Apart from the people he met and the signed visa. They all noticed his erratic and aggressive behaviour. Marina confirms he went to Mexico.

So, wheres the evidence that Ruby was a mob hit man and had killed before?

Where is the picture you claim where you can see "Mauser" on it?

Cheerful Spring · 14-12-2018 12:36pm

The Nal wrote: »

"Foreign made, "British made" "Italian made". They didn't place too much importance on it the the time. The fact remains that its a Carcano on the TV on the 22nd before it was handed to the FBI. Even the wildest conspiracy nuts wouldn't doubt that as its clear.

WTF? You can buy bullets today that will fit that Carcano. Do you think you have to buy "Carcano" bullets to fit a Carcano? Its a 6.5mm rifle.

Oswalds ammo came from 1 of the 4 lots here.

Money. Credible conspiracy theorists and his own daughter doesn't believe his story. Hes not credible.

There were 4 bullets in the gun. Oswald used 3. Fritz ejected the last round, as per any procedure with a firearm.

Wheres the evidence for this call? Search the HSCA phone records and show me please.

Hang on, you're claiming the HSCA couldn't find evidence of his trip to Mexico and now that you've been shown that there is - overwhelming evidence - you're claiming the HSCA was a cover up?

The visa application was for Cuba. He was already in Mexico when it was filled in and signed. By Oswald.

Apart from the people he met and the signed visa. They all noticed his erratic and aggressive behaviour. Marina confirms he went to Mexico.

So, wheres the evidence that Ruby was a mob hit man and had killed before?

Where is the picture you claim where you can see "Mauser" on it?

We move on from the rifle debate. I just say this. Maybe there was a confusion about the type of rifle found? Still, The timeline clearly doesn't support your argument in any way. As the Mauser 7.65 story did not go away till the 24th of Nov. Italian made rifle can't be a German Mauser. So why was Dallas Police still believing they found a German Mauser with a different calibre of the bullet after the 22th?

You maybe not aware. The boxes of ammo on show were cases in US military storage. They were shown to Warren Commission. They were ordered by the US Military and intelligence services like the CIA after the war. Western Cartridge confirmed they stopped producing the 6.5mm calibre for the Carcano in 1958 (they bullets Oswald used allegedly were traced to 1954) and the company never sold them to gun businesses after the war. They were produced on request from the USMC. Oswald could not have got the bullets in a gun shop and never came with the rifle. Questions remain where did he purchase the bullets and where they get them from?

Carcano can also fire 7.35mm bullets, that well known. You might be able to design a Carcano bullet in another workshop or at other company, but it, not the original calibre produced by the Western Cartridge company in the 1950s and traced to Oswald gun.

I not saying your wrong, but can you provide a source that states four bullets were loaded in the chamber by Oswald?

I posted a link to one of the JFK files in the archive. That a man phoned the Dallas station and said he was a member of the commission to kill Oswald and was giving them the warning to stop it. This could be Ruby not sure the files are often redacted and incomplete.

Cuban officials reported they told the Oswald who turned up to go away that it would take 4 months to process and he would need to make contact with the Soviet Embassy first. The Visa application was to visit Cuba. Can you provide a source for who in Cuban government send that application? The Cuban government send to HSCA a picture of the Oswald they claim showed up and he was an older man.

weisses · 14-12-2018 12:40pm

Dohnjoe wrote: »

Nah, that's not why.

This is a pretty basic concept. If someone wants to assert something happened (JFK being shot by Oswald), then they need to support it with evidence (Warren commission, etc)

If another person wants to assert something else happened, they have to do the same.

It's not complicated. I'm not sure why you get so agitated over it or seem to believe that conspiracy theorists occupy some "special" place that they don't have to support their own theories

As for your Jenkins question, I believe he's one of the team that performed the autopsy on JFK. How many were on the team in total?

Do you believe Jenkins ? Yes or No

I know he was not alone ...we all do

Cheerful Spring · 14-12-2018 12:59pm

This document confirms what I have just claimed about the bullets.

http://jfk.hood.edu/Collection/Weisberg%20Subject%20Index%20Files/F%20Disk/FBI/FBI%20CIA%20Relations/Item%2006.pdf

Cheerful Spring · 14-12-2018 1:00pm

Oswalds bullets were traced to a government contract. The memorandum claims for the CIA very likely.

The Nal · 14-12-2018 3:35pm

Cheerful Spring wrote: »

We move on from the rifle debate. I just say this. Maybe there was a confusion about the type of rifle found? Still, The timeline clearly doesn't support your argument in any way. As the Mauser 7.65 story did not go away till the 24th of Nov. Italian made rifle can't be a German Mauser. So why was Dallas Police still believing they found a German Mauser with a different calibre of the bullet after the 22th?

Because of the initial confusion. No one put any importance on where it came from at the time. However, thats a Carcano in the police station on the 22nd. No question.

Cheerful Spring wrote: »

You maybe not aware. The boxes of ammo on show were cases in US military storage. They were shown to Warren Commission. They were ordered by the US Military and intelligence services like the CIA after the war. Western Cartridge confirmed they stopped producing the 6.5mm calibre for the Carcano in 1958 (they bullets Oswald used allegedly were traced to 1954) and the company never sold them to gun businesses after the war. They were produced on request from the USMC. Oswald could not have got the bullets in a gun shop and never came with the rifle. Questions remain where did he purchase the bullets and where they get them from?

The 6.5mm bullet that was found on the strecther - the single bullet - was ballistically proven to have come from Oswald's rifle to the exclusion of all other weapons.

On March 23, 1964, Mr. R.W. Botts, District Manager, Winchester-Western Division, Olin Mathieson Chemical Corporation, Braniff Building, advised that the Western Cartridge Company, a division of Olin Industries, East Alton, Illinois, manufactured a quantity of 6.5 M/M Mannlicher-Carcano ammunition for the Italian Government during World War II. At the end of the war the Italian Carcano rifle, and no telling how much of this type ammunition, was sold to United States gun brokers and dealers and subsequently was distributed by direct sales to wholesalers, retailers, and individual purchasers.

Cheerful Spring wrote: »

Carcano can also fire 7.35mm bullets, that well known. You might be able to design a Carcano bullet in another workshop or at other company, but it, not the original calibre produced by the Western Cartridge company in the 1950s and traced to Oswald gun.

I not saying your wrong, but can you provide a source that states four bullets were loaded in the chamber by Oswald?

No. Because he was shot before he went to to trial. But his rifle, his palm print, fibres from his shirt and fibres from the sheet the rifle was wrapped in were on the rifle, he was the only one confirmed on the 6th floor, he brought a package to work, no curtain rods were found in the TSBD and none were taken from Ruth Paines house, the stretcher bullet was fired from his rifle as were the ejected shells.

Cheerful Spring wrote: »

Cuban officials reported they told the Oswald who turned up to go away that it would take 4 months to process and he would need to make contact with the Soviet Embassy first. The Visa application was to visit Cuba. Can you provide a source for who in Cuban government send that application?

Yes. The person he met was called Sylvia Duran. She is the one who told him to go to the Russian embassy. Her name and number were later found in Oswalds address book. She is interviewed in that documentary I posted.

Cheerful Spring wrote: »

The Cuban government send to HSCA a picture of the Oswald they claim showed up and he was an older man.

Yes a totally different man. Clearly a mistake.

Cheerful Spring · 14-12-2018 4:27pm

Nal you just ignored what the memorandum from the FBI said.

The depository shells were manufactured under government contract (DA-23-196-
ORD-27) for the United States Marine Corps.

"A high-ranking FBI criminalist, R.H. Jevons, claimed that this type of ammunition "does not fit and cannot be fired in any of the USMC
weapons" Jevons' memo concludes: "This gives rise to the obvious speculation that it is a contract for ammunition placed by CIA with the company under a USMC cover for concealment.

6.5mm bullet found at Parkland hospital in suspicious circumstances you should have said.

This Oswald Wife testimony
Mr Rankin :Do you know whether your husband carried any package with him when he left the house on November 22nd?

Mrs Oswald :I think that he had a package with his lunch. But a small package.

Jack Dougherty, saw Oswald arrive inside the building. He claimed that Oswald had nothing in his hands (Warren Commission Hearings, vol.6, pp.376f

The curtain rod story is based on one guy claim. Even he claims the package was too small for a rifle. Could Oswald have packed his launch in this bag?

Ruth Paine who family are all in the CIA. Is strange how Oswald has so many friends with intelligence connections? He supposed to be some raving lunatic communist? Ruth Paine allowing a communist stay at her home during the cold war?

Clearly a mistake? The CIA sends the FBI a picture of Oswald who looks nothing like him in Sept 1963, two months before he allegedly shot Kennedy? There a lot of mistakes happening here.

Cheerful Spring · 14-12-2018 4:39pm

According to Captain Will Fritz, who interrogated Oswald, “He said he didn’t have any kind of a package but his lunch. He said he had his lunch and that is all he had …. He said, ‘No. I didn’t carry anything but my lunch’” (Warren Commission Hearings, vol.4, pp.218.

The Nal · 14-12-2018 4:42pm

Lots of oddities yep. The picture of David Ferrie and Oswald at a BBQ in the marines is an odd coincidence. But Oswald was 16. Hardly recruiting age. I don't remember everyone I've ever met at every work night out I've had. Odd nonetheless.

As are the Paines CIA connections. However they weren't "clearly" CIA. How Ruth Paine met the Oswalds was a complete coincidence too. Total chance.

Oswald always claimed to be a Marxist and not a communist.

Cheerful Spring · 14-12-2018 4:52pm

The Nal wrote: »

Lots of oddities yep. The picture of David Ferrie and Oswald at a BBQ in the marines is an odd coincidence. But Oswald was 16. Hardly recruiting age. I don't remember everyone I've ever met at every work night out I've had. Odd nonetheless.

As are the Paines CIA connections. However they weren't "clearly" CIA. How Ruth Paine met the Oswalds was a complete coincidence too. Total chance.

Oswald always claimed to be a Marxist and not a communist.

I never said he was recruited by David Ferrie. What it does show both men were in the same unit and very likely they talked and knew each other. Oswald future activities likely brought them together again. David Ferrie was an asset of the CIA or do you dispute that claim?

Oswald was stationed in Japan at CIA monitoring base. U2 flights flew out of there to spy on the Soviet Union. Strange place for a Marxist to be at. Oswald fits the profile of someone who would be sheep-dipped and put in place to spy on pro-Castro Cuban activities. Oswald pro-Castro leaflets were printed with an address and just happened to have the same near address as Guy Banister office. No way that's a coincidence.

Oswald was introduced to Ruth Paine by George de Mohrenschildt, who also is believed to have intelligence connections.

Cheerful Spring · 14-12-2018 5:04pm

Clearly not CIA?

Aaccording to a declassified CIA document, Ruth's sister, Sylvia Hyde Hoke, was listed as an employee of the agency in the Falls Church, VA local directory in 1961. Ruth visited and stayed with her sister in September 1963. Ruth admits that her sister may have worked for "an outfit."[31]

Ruth's father, William Avery Hyde, was an insurance executive who went to work for USAID (United States Agency for International Development), which was and is a well known cover for CIA personnel. Declassified documents show that Hyde had contacts with the CIA, which at least considered him for use in an operation in Vietnam.[31]

Ruth's husband Michael Paine was the son of Ruth Forbes Paine and George Lyman Paine Jr.. Ruth Forbes Paine was a close friend of Mary Bancroft, an OSS agent and at times a mistress of CIA director Allen Dulles and Henry Luce.[32] Forbes Paine was also a student of Carl Jung.[33] Ruth Forbes Paine later married Arthur M. Young, who was a member of Andrija Puharich's Roundtable Foundation.

The Nal · 14-12-2018 5:48pm

Cheerful Spring wrote: »

I never said he was recruited by David Ferrie. What it does show both men were in the same unit and very likely they talked and knew each other. Oswald future activities likely brought them together again. David Ferrie was an asset of the CIA or do you dispute that claim?

He was. With likely mob links aswell.

However as odd as it is it doesn't prove they knew each other. Theres no evidence that they spoke then and no evidence they spoke in the 8 years between then and Oswalds death. And theres no evidence Ferrie had anything to do with Kennedys death.

I'm not denying its a very odd coincidence though.

Cheerful Spring wrote: »

Oswald was stationed in Japan at CIA monitoring base. U2 flights flew out of there to spy on the Soviet Union. Strange place for a Marxist to be at. Oswald fits the profile of someone who would be sheep-dipped and put in place to spy on pro-Castro Cuban activities.

Oswald was odd and 100% genuine in his political beliefs. Castro was his hero. He was a committed Marxist. The reason he was in the marines was partly because its a strange place for a Marxist to be at. Which is why I'm recommending you read up on him to get a full rounded and deep understanding of him. Fascinating character.

Cheerful Spring wrote: »

Oswald pro-Castro leaflets just happened to have the same near address as Guy Banister. No way that's a coincidence.

Another odd one yep. A genuine coincidence I believe though.

The real story is just as interesting. Oswald was desperately trying to start a Fair Play for Cuba Committee chapter in New Orleans. He did, with one member, himself. The first few times he handed out pamphlets they had his home or PO box address on them.

Then he met anti Castro Carlos Bringuier of the Cuban Revolutionary Council. He tried to infiltrate that group. Oswald never rented that address. However Carlos Bringuier had done. Oswald knew this and put that address on the pamphlets on a day that he had invited the local news to come round and film him handing them out on Canal St, around the corner from where Bringuier worked. The reporter had covered him doing this before and Oswald told him he would invite him back when he was handing them out again.

Clearly a well laid trap for Bringuier to confront Oswald (which he did) and they all got chucked in jail. Oswald had the choice to pay a $25 fine and leave or to stay in jail. He chose to stay in jail. The questioning officer later said it looked like Oswald had set Bringuier up. Hence the later appearances of "it was staged" in conspiracy books. It was staged. By Oswald. This was all done to prove to the Fair Play For Cuba HQ in New York that he was worthy and legit. A "street agitator".

Here he is on the TV. This is not the work of a covert group planning to use this man to assassinate the president in a couple of months time.

Cheerful Spring wrote: »

Oswald was introduced to Ruth Paine by George de Mohrenschildt, who also is believed to have intelligence connections.

And he used those connections to see if it was "safe" to be friends with Oswald. Mohrenschildt is another odd one. But ultimately seems unstable.

Oswald hung around with strange people. But he was an American Marxist marine who defected and lived in Russia during the cold war. He was never going to hang about with normal people.

I just don't buy that someone so loud and visible - a defector with a Russian wife, who is pro Castro and has recently been on TV and radio talking up Marxism, denouncing Capitalism and arrested for a scuffle with anti Castro Cubans and has an open FBI file to his name - is the man who was chosen to carry out the biggest assassination in history. Which is why I think he did it alone.

Cheerful Spring wrote: »

Clearly not CIA?

Nope. None of that proves she was CIA. Theres no evidence for that. Her family, yeah. Her, no evidence. And she has been investigated thoroughly. As has Michael.

Tipsy McSwagger · 14-12-2018 5:48pm

Cheerful Spring wrote: »

According to Captain Will Fritz, who interrogated Oswald, “He said he didn’t have any kind of a package but his lunch. He said he had his lunch and that is all he had …. He said, ‘No. I didn’t carry anything but my lunch’” (Warren Commission Hearings, vol.4, pp.218.

Well then that rules Oswald out since no murderer would ever lie.

The Nal · 14-12-2018 6:07pm

Tipsy McSwagger wrote: »

Well then that rules Oswald out since no murderer would ever lie.

He lied about having an Alek Hidell ID despite having it on him when he was arrested!

He lied about owning the rifle despite the mail order showing it was sent to Alek Hidell at his address and there being signed photos of him with the rifle.

2915+App.png?format=1000w

On Oswalds personality - one night he had a fight with Marina (he used to beat her up a lot) and this particular night he was beating her up and the baby started crying so he went to tend to the baby. As he was doing that Marina went into the bathroom and tried to hang herself from the shower rail. He came back in and saw her doing this and beat her up some more. People try to make out that he was some placid loser patsy. He wasn't a nice guy or a stable person.

Cheerful Spring · 14-12-2018 7:12pm

The Nal wrote: »

He was. With likely mob links aswell.

However as odd as it is it doesn't prove they knew each other. Theres no evidence that they spoke then and no evidence they spoke in the 8 years between then and Oswalds death. And theres no evidence Ferrie had anything to do with Kennedys death.

I'm not denying its a very odd coincidence though.

Oswald was odd and 100% genuine in his political beliefs. Castro was his hero. He was a committed Marxist. The reason he was in the marines was partly because its a strange place for a Marxist to be at. Which is why I'm recommending you read up on him to get a full rounded and deep understanding of him. Fascinating character.

Another odd one yep. A genuine coincidence I believe though.

The real story is just as interesting. Oswald was desperately trying to start a Fair Play for Cuba Committee chapter in New Orleans. He did, with one member, himself. The first few times he handed out pamphlets they had his home or PO box address on them.

Then he met anti Castro Carlos Bringuier of the Cuban Revolutionary Council. He tried to infiltrate that group. Oswald never rented that address. However Carlos Bringuier had done. Oswald knew this and put that address on the pamphlets on a day that he had invited the local news to come round and film him handing them out on Canal St, around the corner from where Bringuier worked. The reporter had covered him doing this before and Oswald told him he would invite him back when he was handing them out again.

Clearly a well laid trap for Bringuier to confront Oswald (which he did) and they all got chucked in jail. Oswald had the choice to pay a $25 fine and leave or to stay in jail. He chose to stay in jail. The questioning officer later said it looked like Oswald had set Bringuier up. Hence the later appearances of "it was staged" in conspiracy books. It was staged. By Oswald. This was all done to prove to the Fair Play For Cuba HQ in New York that he was worthy and legit. A "street agitator".

Here he is on the TV. This is not the work of a covert group planning to use this man to assassinate the president in a couple of months time.

And he used those connections to see if it was "safe" to be friends with Oswald. Mohrenschildt is another odd one. But ultimately seems unstable.

Oswald hung around with strange people. But he was an American Marxist marine who defected and lived in Russia during the cold war. He was never going to hang about with normal people.

I just don't buy that someone so loud and visible - a defector with a Russian wife, who is pro Castro and has recently been on TV and radio talking up Marxism, denouncing Capitalism and arrested for a scuffle with anti Castro Cubans and has an open FBI file to his name - is the man who was chosen to carry out the biggest assassination in history. Which is why I think he did it alone.

Nope. None of that proves she was CIA. Theres no evidence for that. Her family, yeah. Her, no evidence. And she has been investigated thoroughly. As has Michael.

Ferrie was spotted at 544 CAMP ST with Guy Bannister, and it was printed on Oswald pro-Cuban Leaflets the address 544 CAMP ST. Ferrie was in the same unit as Oswald. Ferrie was in a location that he would run into and meet Oswald again. I think it suspicious. You said was an odd coincidence least that something

Guy Bannister was known to be a militant anti-communist and angry man. If Oswald was inside the same building and printing out pro-Castro information. I think this would have lead to fight and a disturbance when both men saw each other. Guy Bannister had intelligence connections. I find just find it unlikely he was totally unaware of communist activities occuring inside the building he had an office at? Where did Oswald print those leaflets inside the building exactly, what room number or office?

If Oswald was an intelligence agent then has to act the part. You have to play the pro-Castro character as a double agent.

From Oswald bio on Wikipedia
Edward Voebel, "whom the Warren Commission had established was Oswald's closest friend during his teenage years in New Orleans..... said that reports that Oswald was already 'studying Communism' were a 'lot of baloney.' " Voebel said that "Oswald commonly read 'paperback trash.'"[25][26][27]

Oswald is perfect patsy. He was leading a double life pretending to be communist and Marxist, had gone to the Soviet Union. Spoke Russian. The conspirators did have to plant a fake story for the most part as he done this stuff in person for real. All they had to do destroy evidence or not show anyone information about Oswald covert activities. By the way and well known Oswald files held by the US government and defence establishment were destroyed and you aware of this?

Ruth paine family has CIA connections. Her involvement with the CIA could easily have got covered up and any information destroyed.

Cheerful Spring · 14-12-2018 7:30pm

The Nal wrote: »

He lied about having an Alek Hidell ID despite having it on him when he was arrested!

He lied about owning the rifle despite the mail order showing it was sent to Alek Hidell at his address and there being signed photos of him with the rifle.

On Oswalds personality - one night he had a fight with Marina (he used to beat her up a lot) and this particular night he was beating her up and the baby started crying so he went to tend to the baby. As he was doing that Marina went into the bathroom and tried to hang herself from the shower rail. He came back in and saw her doing this and beat her up some more. People try to make out that he was some placid loser patsy. He wasn't a nice guy or a stable person.

So he had fake military IDs and was using a false name? Is that not what you expect someone involved in intelligence to have?

The rifle was sent to a post office box, not an address.

This story of Richard Case Nagell explains why Oswald had an ID with a different name. He had inside information about the conspiracy.

The Nal · 14-12-2018 7:43pm

Cheerful Spring wrote: »

Ferrie was spotted at 544 CAMP ST with Guy Bannister, and it was printed on Oswald pro-Cuban Leaflets the address 544 CAMP ST. Ferrie was in the same unit as Oswald. Ferrie was in a location that he would run into and meet Oswald again. I think it suspicious. You said was an odd coincidence least that something

Guy Bannister was known to be a militant anti-communist and angry man. If Oswald was inside the same building and printing out pro-Castro information. I think this would have lead to fight and a disturbance when both men saw each other. Guy Bannister had intelligence connections. I find just find it unlikely he was totally unaware of communist activities occuring inside the building he had an office at? Where did Oswald print those leaflets inside the building exactly, what room number or office?

If Oswald was an intelligence agent then has to act the part. You have to play the pro-Castro character as a double agent.

From Oswald bio on Wikipedia
Edward Voebel, "whom the Warren Commission had established was Oswald's closest friend during his teenage years in New Orleans..... said that reports that Oswald was already 'studying Communism' were a 'lot of baloney.' " Voebel said that "Oswald commonly read 'paperback trash.'"[25][26][27]

Oswald is perfect patsy. He was leading a double life pretending to be communist and Marxist, had gone to the Soviet Union. Spoke Russian. The conspirators did have to plant a fake story for the most part as he done this stuff in person for real. All they had to do destroy evidence or not show anyone information about Oswald covert activities. By the way and well known Oswald files held by the US government and defence establishment were destroyed and you aware of this?

Ruth paine family has CIA connections. Her involvement with the CIA could easily have got covered up and any information destroyed.

Bannisters office was in 531 Lafayette St. Some of the leaflets Oswald had said 544 Camp St. The same physical building sure but to get from one to the other you needed to go down the stairs and around the corner and through another door. You couldn't get from one office to another from within the building.

As for Oswald not being a commie or a Marxist and only pretending to be. Thats just simply not true. You can quote mine from wikipedia all you like.

What is it with people who by default gravitate to conspiracy theories and quote mining? Is it laziness?

Cheerful Spring · 14-12-2018 7:50pm

The Nal wrote: »

Bannisters office was in 531 Lafayette St. Some of the leaflets Oswald had said 544 Camp St. The same physical building sure but to get from one to the other you needed to go down the stairs and around the corner and through another door. You couldn't get from one office to another from within the building.

As for Oswald not being a commie or a Marxist and only pretending to be. Thats just simply not true. You can quote mine from wikipedia all you like.

What difference does that make? The leaflets were printed at a building at 544 Camp ST. That does not say guy bannister office it ignored? It's the same building either way that no coincidence.

Well, the evidence shows otherwise. Watch that video I posted. Even his closest friend said he no interest in communism when he knew him.

Tipsy McSwagger · 14-12-2018 8:10pm

Cheerful Spring wrote: »

According to Captain Will Fritz, who interrogated Oswald, “He said he didn’t have any kind of a package but his lunch. He said he had his lunch and that is all he had …. He said, ‘No. I didn’t carry anything but my lunch’” (Warren Commission Hearings, vol.4, pp.218.

Just going back to this post. You previously posted that LHO brought a package to work that day, and Wesley Frazier believed it was too small to hold a sniper rifle. Now you’re posting that LHO denied to Fritz he ever had such a package. So why is Oswald clearly lying?

JFK Assassination Autopsy Details Revealed After 55 Years

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