Dublin - Metrolink (Swords to Charlemont only)

gjim · 20-09-2022 1:19pm

Was banning oil and gas exploration anything more than optics? I don't know the answer to be honest.

I mean we've been hearing about "potential" Irish oil/gas resources for half a century but I was under the impression that Ireland wasn't exactly beset by eager oil/gas exploration companies wanting to be allowed to drill in Irish waters? There's stuff there but a lot of it isn't economic to extract?

I do believe that opposing the development of an LNG terminal was/is misguided (and argued here for this long before the current crisis).

Ryan hasn't been stellar but he's been better than what I was expecting given his support for the NIMBY "rethink metro" group before his ministerial position. My priorities would be different if I were in his position but at least there are a bunch of big PT projects either underway or about to start. To be honest, has any other transport minister done better for PT? Remember how useless Ross was. There's some reason for a little optimism I feel.

My biggest worry is a complete change of government after the next election. We know that such changes are often a death sentence for big infrastructure projects with "rethinks" or "reconsidering the options", "commission reports", etc. I particularly fear that hard-left influences or SF are part of the next government and a fancy shiny metro system would be seen as a bourgeois luxury (we're spending billions on it while there are people sleeping in the streets, joe).

cgcsb · 20-09-2022 3:48pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119641180#Comment_119641180

The UK gas is going to ultimately be coming from Russia though. In any case, an absolutely ludicrous, self harming, decision that has the potential to cause havoc on Irelands economy, society and infrastructure spending.

bk · 20-09-2022 3:53pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119642413#Comment_119642413

No, sorry, but that is terribly ill informed!

The gas we import from the UK comes from the UK itself, Norway and a relatively small amount from LNG.

In 2021 the UK imported only 4% of it's Gas from Russia. As of June 2022, they now import 0% of Russian gas.

MJohnston · 20-09-2022 3:56pm

Opening this thread for the first time in ages, looking for Metrolink news....immediately closing the thread again...

cgcsb · 20-09-2022 6:12pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119642447#Comment_119642447

Come back in 1.5 years, by that time a Railway order should be in place, a tenderer should be selected by then, so the only thing left will be to cancel or start building.

spacetweek · 21-09-2022 11:42pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119642992#Comment_119642992

In 1.5 years it'll only be halfway to construction start - it's not due to start until 2025 which is 3 years away.

MyLove4Satan · 22-09-2022 1:38am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119637324#Comment_119637324

Perhaps the most delusional post on this thread. A deep global recession is going to get Dublin a metro? I was always amazed by the Waiting for Godot mentality on this forum regarding 'the metro will come!!!' while flying in the face of reality, but jesus wept this post takes the ultimate Fig Roll in terms of this.

brianc89 · 22-09-2022 10:35am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119648838#Comment_119648838

The post says nothing about a deep global recession. Recessions happen every 10years or so. Given the timeline of large infrastructure projects, we can't assume every 10 years we abandon all plans and start again.

Ireland was badly burned in 2008 and it has scarred us. But it is highly unlikely to be such a deep recession again.

Hotblack Desiato · 22-09-2022 11:35am

The problem in 2008 was due to the geniuses in charge, at the same time as a global economic crisis (not their fault) we had a sovereign debt crisis (absolutely their fault) a private sector debt crisis (absolutely their fault) and a household debt crisis (absolutely their fault) all at once.

Yet people still vote FF.... 🤯

dublinman1990 · 23-09-2022 6:28pm

The one big thing in this upcoming recession across the globe is that it is all focused on one thing which is the supply of energy. It is the one big thing right now that is being used as weapon of war in Eastern Europe.

When we talk about electricity consumption for all of these big PT infrastructure projects; we are going to have to use more electricity consumption from having newer things provided to us like Metrolink, DART+, BusConnects, the gradual rollout of Electric Vehicles as well as the upcoming expansion of the Luas to Finglas over the next 10 to 20 years.

And all that has to come in while we as a country have to sort out the current mess that is in the news right now with the issues from the data centres that are overusing our electricity consumption on the national grid.

When Metrolink is now the big talking point within Government circles at the moment. I do feel that it could be a double edged sword later on when it goes on to get the railway order submitted to ABP.

We do know that as of now; Eirgrid do have a lead in time of 10 years to make serious attempts in trying to upgrade the national grid before Metrolink in theory becomes shovel ready.

However is having a lead in of 10 years to upgrade the national grid actually enough time to officially allow Metrolink become shovel ready for TII/NTA to build it according to the planning authorities?

For one thing I would class Metrolink as a big new piece of infrastructure that is being built on CPO'ed sources of land that may or may not have been used for other things before.

When Metrolink is built; you would then have to use a lot of electricity to provide this new infrastructure like powering up the stations, the OHLE, the signalling and automation for the trains, the Metrolink depot along with the new underground Metrolink tunnel as well. A big proportion of that electricity being used will be classed as newer sources of consumption being added onto the grid.

Now within the context of a cost of living crisis; how much electricity consumption could a new project like Metrolink could add to the grid as a ballpark figure if it was to be built within the 2030's.

bk · 23-09-2022 7:31pm

No, because Metro's are one of the most energy efficient forms of transport. Metrolink will use vastly less energy compared to all the cars (yes even EV's) that it will displace and thus save large amounts of greenhouse emissions.

Building public transport to displace cars is very much an EU priority, so I'd have no worries about power usage of Metrolink (or DART+, EV Buses too) being an issue.

Also keep in mind by 2030, we should be generating 80% of our electricity using renewables. The Irish government goal for 2030 is now to add 5,500MW of solar, 7,000MW of offshore wind, 2,000 MW of green hydrogen and 5.7TWh of biomethane, in addition the two new interconnectors will be open by then. That is all a massive increase in electricity generation capacity.

Hotblack Desiato · 24-09-2022 1:20pm

Talk of EVs increasing electricity consumption is horseshit.

Almost all charging is done at night when there is (usually) an abundance of wind power which otherwise can't be used.

spacetweek · 25-09-2022 2:16pm

The amount of electricity all electrified rail lines will use is a drop in the ocean compared to even 1 data centre.

prunudo · 25-09-2022 2:27pm

You'd like to think the 800 off shore wind turbines to be built over the next ten years between Dalkey and Gorey will help to protect future generation needs.

MyLove4Satan · 26-09-2022 3:17pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119649585#Comment_119649585

I can assure you that in 20 years time that the same people on here will be telling us that Dublin's Planned Metro - MetroSpeed will not be affected by the war in Asia and the CGI is not just all we'll get this time and MetroSpeed will get built.

Deep in your hearts you know you know this is true. Our entire political system is a piece of theater populated exclusively by psychopaths. There never was a plan to build a Dublin Metro regardless of what name it has.

Podge_irl · 27-09-2022 4:05pm

I'm sure you would have said the same nonsense about the LUAS.

Metro North's failings and ultimate cancellation where actually under quite specific circumstances.

p_haugh · 29-09-2022 8:44am

Documents now available to view on www.metrolinkro.ie!

http://www.metrolinkro.ie

CatInABox · 29-09-2022 9:49am

Application to be made tomorrow! Exciting times for everyone, from those fervent supporters, to those who believe their scepticism will be paid off if it's not launched.

CatInABox · 29-09-2022 10:37am

I've taken a quick look through the DCC area plans, and I have to say that I love the general design of the stations, getting natural light down onto the platform level is lovely.

I've previously said that they might be able to maintain one of the lines at Glasnevin while constructing the station, and was told I was mad. Looking at these plans, there's absolutely no way that they'd be able to maintain a line open, so I'll hold my hand up there and say I was wrong. No doubt that there'll be plenty of whinging when people realise that the trains will be off for quite some time, but that's the cost of progress. Other than that, the station looks great.

O'Connell St station looks good too, no natural lights obviously, as it's under a building, but it's nice to see that they've included an entrance on Moore Lane as well, should make the redevelopment there much better.

Tara St is a MASSIVE DISAPPOINTMENT. Unreal. There's no platform to platform lift joining the existing Dart Station with the Metrolink station. In fact, there's no interfacing at all, the Metrolink station is a completely separate structure, and if you want to interchange, you'll need to exit the station, then enter the Dart station. I get that they want to reduce complexity in development and construction, but christ, this is a massive missed opportunity. It also raises the spectre of no upgrades to Tara St station at all, as it's a station in dire need of upgrades.

St Stephens Green station is grand, but could probably do with another entrance at the opposite end. More a nice to have than a necessity, but still.

Charlemont is grand, but has two entrances. I mean, yeah, it's opening out onto two different streets, but I don't see how this gets two entrances, but St Stephens Green doesn't? I mean, there's a surface walkway between the two entrances, so it's not like people would have to walk the long way around?

Anyway, massively overdue, massively welcome, only a few issues with the designs, can't have everything, etc. Looking forward to seeing it progress.

not1but4 · 29-09-2022 10:42am

Looking at the alignment drawings of drawings I can see the tunnel stops short of Ranelagh Luas stop (https://goo.gl/maps/Hordu3MYXL2axy4n7 here to be exact). This is a lot shorter than the earlier drawings I saw a few years ago. As back then the tunnel stopped at north of Beechwood. Was this cut so that the line could be extended to UCD as well?

Page 44 of this document if anyone wants to see the alignment drawings https://downloads.metrolink.ie/documentsro/Alignment%20Details%20Book%202%20of%202%20Dublin%20City%20Council.pdf

CatInABox · 29-09-2022 10:50am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119679445#Comment_119679445

There's never been an official explanation, but as far as I can surmise, if they keep the line going down to where they had planned originally, then they'd have need an intervention shaft like the one they have in Albert College Park, only there isn't a park to plonk it in around there. By shortening the line, they remove the need for such a structure, and can get away with a mine ventilation/evacuation tunnel.

I think that this is the only such mined tunnel on the entire line actually, they've been loath to do anything like it elsewhere.

p_haugh · 29-09-2022 10:53am

Agree re. Tara Street, it really should be one integrated station. Thankfully at least, the external interchange will be covered by the 90 minute fare, so it won't cost you an extra fare (assuming the 90 minute fare will apply for the metro)

CatInABox · 29-09-2022 10:56am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119679505#Comment_119679505

Yeah, I meant to mention this actually, it does take the pain out of it a little, but it's still not ideal.

ricimaki · 29-09-2022 11:56am

I had a quick skim through some of the documents. Great to see this heading to ABP.

I didn't see any clear specification on the rolling stock details, i.e. height from top of rail to platform, vehicle width, height etc.

You can figure out most of this stuff by looking carefully at some of the plans, but would have thought there would be more details.

It appears to be something along the lines of the Copenhagen or Rotterdam metro systems.

29-09-2022 1:13pm

Metrolink from a cyclists perspective

https://irishcycle.com/2022/09/29/metrolink-railway-application-published-to-be-lodged-with-an-bord-pleanala-tomorrow/

Pete_Cavan · 29-09-2022 1:19pm

I agree with other comments, looks fantastic overall but Tara Street is a huge missed opportunity (all they had to do was extend up the stairs/lifts and have a link connecting to the DART platforms!). Also, roadside parking spaces on Ballymun Road why!?

Does anyone know if toilets in the stations will be available to passengers? They look to be difficult to access and may be for staff only - that would be a big disappointment.

AngryLips · 29-09-2022 2:33pm

Perhaps better integration with Tara IR station will come with IR investment at the station? It's strange that when IR put money into the new entrance for that station they didn't tart up the rest of the station along with it ...perhaps it wasn't done specifically because they knew ML will be coming. If you look at what they've done to Pearse, Heuston and Connolly we can see that they're not shy at throwing money into their busiest stations...

cgcsb · 29-09-2022 2:33pm

Looks great, just build it.

Having one exit at Stephens Green is nonsense, can't fathom why you'd want to inconvenience people travelling further south for basically no additional cost, and the volume of people using this station is bound to be a sight to behold, sending them all down one escalator seems like an accident waiting to happen. But I'm sure that'll be corrected at a later date, after someone gets crushed.

Regarding Tara Street. There should be a separate project to create a new integrated station at Tara St with a common concourse, retail, wc facilities and all trimmings associated with major city centre interchange stations. I Don't mind this being a separate project infact I'd prefer it that way. Perhaps it should be a project led by Irish Rail.

Airport station seems poorly connected to terminals but again that may be a separate day's work.

Big fan of thr O'Connell St station, gives the impression the metro was always there, really makes it feel like a part of the character of the city.

Glasnevin seems to also have only one way up or down, another crush incident waiting to happen at a major station.

Northwood Statiom got 2 entrances. Really? But not the green or glasnevin, no disrespect to people who live there but what is the logic of then having one entry point at stations that will be heavily trafficked most of the day.

You'd think from the lack of access that they're nearly expecting nobody to use it. It was the same when the luas was built, short platforms, short trams, 2 non connected lines. Of course the system was operating utterly beyond capacity within a year of opening but at least a few punt was saved on ballance sheets only to be spent 4 fold on later upgrades.

plodder · 29-09-2022 2:49pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119680224#Comment_119680224

The number of cycle spaces in the RO application seems to be different between the report quoted there and the application in some cases. Eg he says 254 spaces for the Estuary P&R, but the planning report in the application says 126. It's the same for Swords Central (942) in both places. And slightly more for Fosterstown in the application. So, he might want to check the details of the others.

By the way, there's an interesting document in the bundle called the Materials Palette, which shows many of the visual design elements, including of the cycle hubs. It's fairly impressive.

Pete_Cavan · 29-09-2022 3:46pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119680640#Comment_119680640

There are two entrances at Northwood because they are different sides of a busy road, this has been the intention for a long time now.

Where would you want a second entrance at Glasnevin to be? It opens onto one street. The rail lines mean there is little space for bringing additional stairs down. I dont see it being an issue, that stairs will only be used by people boarding/alighting for Glasnevin/Phibsborogh which is not going to be enormous numbers. There are separate stairs between the Metrolink and IR platforms so anybody interchanging wont be using that entrance stairs.

One thing I cant understand is the complete lack (unless I am missing something obvious) of retail space at concourse level. Glasnevin has retail at surface level but that seems to be it. Surely cafe/convenience store space at Tara Street at least would be a nice income stream

Dublin - Metrolink (Swords to Charlemont only)

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