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Foreign reg rental in Ireland

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  • 25-09-2020 6:24pm
    #1
    JustARandomGuy
    Registered Users Posts: 133 ✭✭


    Hi boys and girls, it's a simple thread with a big question that has wrecked my head for a while now - I've seen this happen in mainland Europe in a lot of countries.

    Let's skip over the discussion on VRT and motor tax evasion as I'm highly aware this will pop up.

    I'm interested in knowing what would happen if I was to long term rent out a car in a foreign country, in this example Poland as I live here currently and drove to Ireland for work? The car isn't in my name, the insurance isn't in my name, but as per the basic laws, I'm covered and allowed to drive the car.

    How would that work then, apart from the obvious constant harassment from the Gardai? I can't VRT the car and register it as it isn't mine, but then legally it can't be on the emerald isle for more than 30 days? :confused:


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Comments

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    #2
    elperello
    Registered Users Posts: 14,258 ✭✭✭✭elperello


    Are you talking about leasing or renting the car?


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    #3
    JustARandomGuy
    Registered Users Posts: 133 ✭✭JustARandomGuy


    Actually, for the sake of discussion, let's say both would be possible, but if it's on a lease here, it's still registered to the lease company (like LeasePlan).


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    #4
    elperello
    Registered Users Posts: 14,258 ✭✭✭✭elperello


    I expect a condition of either contract would be that you comply with the laws and regulations of any country you take the car to.

    Leasing or rental companies will not want their valuable asset impounded in another country.


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    #5
    mikeecho
    Registered Users Posts: 5,040 ✭✭✭mikeecho


    This document should answer a lot if not most of your questions.

    https://www.vrt.ie/faq/temporary-exemptions-foreign-registered-vehicles/

    As for crossing an international border .. last time I rented in Germany, I was asked if I would be leaving the country with it, and if I was, there would be an extra charge, and a limit on how long it could be out of the country for.

    (I accidentally entered Austria for about 20k)


  • Options
    #6
    colm_c
    Registered Users Posts: 2,030 ✭✭✭colm_c


    Lot's of hypothetical here.

    OP, what exactly are you trying to do?

    Are you trying to be a 'cute hoor' so you can drive a car here on the cheap, or is there actually some valid reason for this scenario?

    The former will no doubt bite you in the ass to save a few quid.

    Can't see any reason for the latter IMO.


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    #7
    galwaytt
    Registered Users Posts: 12,761 ✭✭✭✭galwaytt


    Well, if you're an Irish resident for tax purposes, you're allowed drive a foreign reg vehicle in the first place, so there's that....

    Ode To The Motorist

    “And my existence, while grotesque and incomprehensible to you, generates funds to the exchequer. You don't want to acknowledge that as truth because, deep down in places you don't talk about at the Green Party, you want me on that road, you need me on that road. We use words like freedom, enjoyment, sport and community. We use these words as the backbone of a life spent instilling those values in our families and loved ones. You use them as a punch line. I have neither the time nor the inclination to explain myself to a man who rises and sleeps under the tax revenue and the very freedom to spend it that I provide, and then questions the manner in which I provide it. I would rather you just said "thank you" and went on your way. Otherwise I suggest you pick up a bus pass and get the ********* ********* off the road” 



  • Options
    #8
    JustARandomGuy
    Registered Users Posts: 133 ✭✭JustARandomGuy


    colm_c wrote: »
    Lot's of hypothetical here.

    OP, what exactly are you trying to do?

    Are you trying to be a 'cute hoor' so you can drive a car here on the cheap, or is there actually some valid reason for this scenario?

    The former will no doubt bite you in the ass to save a few quid.

    Can't see any reason for the latter IMO.

    Pure curiosity as it happens all the time on the continent and no one cares. Also, a LHD car wouldn’t be too comfortable to daily.


  • Options
    #9
    JustARandomGuy
    Registered Users Posts: 133 ✭✭JustARandomGuy


    mikeecho wrote: »
    This document should answer a lot if not most of your questions.

    https://www.vrt.ie/faq/temporary-exemptions-foreign-registered-vehicles/

    As for crossing an international border .. last time I rented in Germany, I was asked if I would be leaving the country with it, and if I was, there would be an extra charge, and a limit on how long it could be out of the country for.

    (I accidentally entered Austria for about 20k)

    “Any imported vehicle which is owned by or registered in the name of a non-resident person“

    That’s the issue, technically the car is neither owned nor registered in the name of the renter.

    It’s basically a massive gray area, especially in a country so focused on punishing anyone with a car


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    #10
    mikeecho
    Registered Users Posts: 5,040 ✭✭✭mikeecho


    JustARandomGuy wrote: »
    “Any imported vehicle which is owned by or registered in the name of a non-resident person“

    That’s the issue, technically the car is neither owned nor registered in the name of the renter.

    It’s basically a massive gray area, especially in a country so focused on punishing anyone with a car


    Tell us please.. what's the loop hole you're looking for.?

    What's the end point. ?


    *Edit.

    Owner is a strange one in Irish law, the person in control of the vehicle can be determined as the owner, in the event of damage being caused.

    Normal everyday language and legalise speak, can be polar opposites... Even though it's the same words.


  • Options
    #11
    JustARandomGuy
    Registered Users Posts: 133 ✭✭JustARandomGuy


    mikeecho wrote: »
    Tell us please.. what's the loop hole you're looking for.?

    What's the end point. ?

    There isn’t a loophole that I’m looking for, I was wondering if something that’s normal on the continent would be possibly doable in Ireland but once again this country does not disappoint!

    This can now be locked.


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    #12
    Duarte1974
    Registered Users Posts: 9 ✭Duarte1974


    I heard a year or two back that people were leasing cars in the UK (where it is a more common Practice) and driving them in Ireland. I think it may actually be a loop hole in the law.


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    #13
    mikeecho
    Registered Users Posts: 5,040 ✭✭✭mikeecho


    JustARandomGuy wrote: »
    There isn’t a loophole that I’m looking for, I was wondering if something that’s normal on the continent would be possibly doable in Ireland but once again this country does not disappoint!

    This can now be locked.

    I know of guys driving rentals between NL and Germany that have had their car impounded by the douane for driving rentals cross border..

    Fk'ing nightmare to sort out.


  • Options
    #14
    JustARandomGuy
    Registered Users Posts: 133 ✭✭JustARandomGuy


    mikeecho wrote: »
    I know of guys driving rentals between NL and Germany that have had their car impounded by the douane for driving rentals cross border..

    Fk'ing nightmare to sort out.

    I know a lad who has a Czech reg car in Antwerp and he had no issues with the law over the last 3 years


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    #15
    colm_mcm
    Registered Users Posts: 73,382 ✭✭✭✭colm_mcm


    There's a guy works down the chip shop swears he's Elvis


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    #16
    elperello
    Registered Users Posts: 14,258 ✭✭✭✭elperello


    I know a lad who drove a UK registered car here for more than 3 years and had no issue with the law.

    All that proves is that he escaped detection for 3 years.

    You need to know what the law is not provide examples of people getting away with something.

    (Car passed 30 years old last year and now all legal. ZV plates and all.)


  • Options
    #17
    mikeecho
    Registered Users Posts: 5,040 ✭✭✭mikeecho


    JustARandomGuy wrote: »
    I know a lad who has a Czech reg car in Antwerp and he had no issues with the law over the last 3 years

    Is he crossing the NL /D border every morning ?


  • Options
    #18
    Kopparberg Strawberry and Lime
    Registered Users Posts: 3,964 ✭✭✭Kopparberg Strawberry and Lime


    On a very serious note, all piss taking aside.

    I used to work with a lad up until very recently

    Here's in here Ireland with his polish registered car. Which he bought new many many years ago, and amazingly it was a right hand drive fiat stilo or something.

    But for many many years has been driving here on Gdansk plates.

    That's wrong because he is the owner but at the same time he hasn't been made change the car yet.


  • Options
    #19
    Charles Babbage
    Registered Users Posts: 5,457 ✭✭✭Charles Babbage


    Duarte1974 wrote: »
    I heard a year or two back that people were leasing cars in the UK (where it is a more common Practice) and driving them in Ireland. I think it may actually be a loop hole in the law.


    No, it is not a loophole, the Revenue can seize the car if it is driven by an Irish resident.


  • Options
    #20
    tabby aspreme
    Registered Users Posts: 3,850 ✭✭✭tabby aspreme


    There is a Polish lady living and working locally, driving the same PL plated BMW for at least 10 years, local Gardai would be well aware of the car, so there must be some workaround on registering it


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    #21
    Charles Babbage
    Registered Users Posts: 5,457 ✭✭✭Charles Babbage


    tabby aspreme wrote: »
    There is a Polish lady living and working locally, driving the same PL plated BMW for at least 10 years, local Gardai would be well aware of the car, so there must be some workaround on registering it


    This might be laziness, but the lady is not evading VRT as she moved here, the OP is evading VRT.


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    #22
    redcup342
    Registered Users Posts: 1,387 ✭✭✭redcup342


    JustARandomGuy wrote: »
    Hi boys and girls, it's a simple thread with a big question that has wrecked my head for a while now - I've seen this happen in mainland Europe in a lot of countries.

    Let's skip over the discussion on VRT and motor tax evasion as I'm highly aware this will pop up.

    I'm interested in knowing what would happen if I was to long term rent out a car in a foreign country, in this example Poland as I live here currently and drove to Ireland for work? The car isn't in my name, the insurance isn't in my name, but as per the basic laws, I'm covered and allowed to drive the car.

    How would that work then, apart from the obvious constant harassment from the Gardai? I can't VRT the car and register it as it isn't mine, but then legally it can't be on the emerald isle for more than 30 days? :confused:

    The Rental/Leasing company won't care what you do. (Usually, they will have restrictions on where you can go with the car, it may be forbidden or you have to pay extra for Insurance)

    However local regulations apply.

    If you rent a car from Sixt for example in Germany on German plates and drive in the Netherlands while you are registered there and get stopped by the Douane that car is going on the back of a Transporter until you pay the BPM. (unless you applied for an exemption in advance)

    E.G. I can take my German plated car to Ireland and drive away fine (as I don't live there) as soon as an Irish resident drives it then Revenue can demand VRT.

    Doesn't really matter who owns the car in the end.


  • Options
    #23
    jumbone
    Registered Users Posts: 609 ✭✭✭jumbone


    galwaytt wrote: »
    Well, if you're an Irish resident for tax purposes, you're allowed drive a foreign reg vehicle in the first place, so there's that....

    presume you're missing a 'not' somewhere but...

    ...unless its hired to you or owned by your employer


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    #24
    boombang
    Registered Users Posts: 2,108 ✭✭✭boombang


    I think the law is specifically structured in such a way to prevent Irish nationals driving foreign rentals here. I remember looking into it as I wondered was there a way of registering a car to a company I owned in the North and "leasing" it to myself in the south to avoid heavy VRT on large engined vehicles. I thought this might fly under free provision of services across the EU (before Brexit), but VRT is is done is such a way to prevent this.


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    #25
    jumbone
    Registered Users Posts: 609 ✭✭✭jumbone


    boombang wrote: »
    I think the law is specifically structured in such a way to prevent Irish nationals driving foreign rentals here. I remember looking into it as I wondered was there a way of registering a car to a company I owned in the North and "leasing" it to myself in the south to avoid heavy VRT on large engined vehicles. I thought this might fly under free provision of services across the EU (before Brexit), but VRT is is done is such a way to prevent this.

    No need for a bogus lease, this is permitted if you are employed by your NI company:
    A State resident who is employed by an employer established in another Member State is
    eligible to use Category B & C vehicles registered in another Member State (either owned or
    leased by the employer) for business/private use in the State.

    I note that this includes private use, not sure how that works with BIK


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    #26
    R.O.R
    Registered Users Posts: 12,672 ✭✭✭✭R.O.R


    jumbone wrote: »
    ...unless its hired to you or owned by your employer

    Only in a very few exceptional circumstances, and only with Revenue approval.

    There are some drivers, living in border counties, driving UK/NI registered vehicles legally. These vehicles are provided by their employers and are used predominantly in NI for business purposes.

    Revenue issue a letter of exemption for these drivers, which they have to keep with them all the time, or risk having the car taken from them by Revenue.


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    #27
    R.O.R
    Registered Users Posts: 12,672 ✭✭✭✭R.O.R


    jumbone wrote: »
    No need for a bogus lease, this is permitted if you are employed by your NI company:
    A State resident who is employed by an employer established in another Member State is
    eligible to use Category B & C vehicles registered in another Member State (either owned or
    leased by the employer) for business/private use in the State.

    I note that this includes private use, not sure how that works with BIK

    Category B&C vehicles are commercial - different legislation (for some reason) around commercial vehicles being driven for work in ROI, if registered in UK/NI.


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    #28
    jumbone
    Registered Users Posts: 609 ✭✭✭jumbone


    R.O.R wrote: »
    Category B&C vehicles are commercial - different legislation (for some reason) around commercial vehicles being driven for work in ROI, if registered in UK/NI.

    Ah I assumed it was cat B as in a cat B driving licence


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    #29
    galwaytt
    Registered Users Posts: 12,761 ✭✭✭✭galwaytt


    galwaytt wrote: »
    Well, if you're an Irish resident for tax purposes, you're allowed drive a foreign reg vehicle in the first place, so there's that....

    sorry, just spotted a typo and too late to edit.

    It should read: Well, if you're an Irish resident for tax purposes, you're not allowed drive a foreign reg vehicle in the first place, so there's that....

    Ode To The Motorist

    “And my existence, while grotesque and incomprehensible to you, generates funds to the exchequer. You don't want to acknowledge that as truth because, deep down in places you don't talk about at the Green Party, you want me on that road, you need me on that road. We use words like freedom, enjoyment, sport and community. We use these words as the backbone of a life spent instilling those values in our families and loved ones. You use them as a punch line. I have neither the time nor the inclination to explain myself to a man who rises and sleeps under the tax revenue and the very freedom to spend it that I provide, and then questions the manner in which I provide it. I would rather you just said "thank you" and went on your way. Otherwise I suggest you pick up a bus pass and get the ********* ********* off the road” 



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    #30
    kaahooters
    Registered Users Posts: 642 ✭✭✭kaahooters


    so the specific point here is

    long term rent (im presuming off hertz, avis ect)

    ring them and ask, i know there will be restrictions on the size of vehicle, and i know you can bring a car between ireland and the UK (rented either side) after that youll ahve to get details from them.


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    #31
    Marcusm
    Registered Users Posts: 10,184 ✭✭✭✭Marcusm


    kaahooters wrote: »
    so the specific point here is

    long term rent (im presuming off hertz, avis ect)

    ring them and ask, i know there will be restrictions on the size of vehicle, and i know you can bring a car between ireland and the UK (rented either side) after that youll ahve to get details from them.

    When you go to look you will find most of the GB rental places will not even permit travel to NI except for an additional fee. NI places likely permit travel across the Island but I doubt that there will be any significant savings in scope not to mind the general exposure to criminal sanctions.


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