€1bn cost overrun for new Children's Hospital

The Bishop Basher · 26-12-2018 4:58pm

Dirtdrifter wrote: »

About 850 million pounds

Everything on the one campus

Built only a few years

University hospital,large emergency hospitals *2

You name it it's all there

And we're being told here on this thread that it's not possible..

A defeatist attitude that leads to poor piecemeal solutions to big problems.

gctest50 · 26-12-2018 5:24pm

Dirtdrifter wrote: »

.......

You name it it's all there

even have wee robots for moving food and laundry, and the robots have their own lift

Think how much work they get through in a day

Dirtdrifter · 26-12-2018 6:37pm

Another quick Google brings me straight to another hospital opened in 2015 in the UK

Northumbria Specialist Emergency Care Hospital ,total cost £90 million

State of the art emergency care 210 bed hospital

It may be greenfield this time but the financial comparisons are very unfavorable compared with what they're getting elsewhere

Dirtdrifter · 26-12-2018 6:48pm

New Papworth Hospital

Opening in Cambridge in 2019

Cost £165 million

Co-located with existing facilities 310 Beds

gctest50 · 26-12-2018 6:56pm

BAM ! and your budget is gone

s14driftking · 26-12-2018 9:04pm

Bam ain’t known as subby breakers for nothing. Hence why they probably can’t get contractors to commit.

SEPT 23 1989 · 26-12-2018 9:51pm

s14driftking wrote: »

Bam ain’t known as subby breakers for nothing. Hence why they probably can’t get contractors to commit.

Fcuk them

Hope they drown over this

salmocab · 26-12-2018 9:55pm

s14driftking wrote: »

Bam ain’t known as subby breakers for nothing. Hence why they probably can’t get contractors to commit.

It wasn’t them I heard it about tbf, one of the other contractors with a specific package.

Gentleman Off The Pitch · 26-12-2018 10:29pm

Wildly Boaring wrote: »

450m was initial estimate
...

Edit...also you do not award a tender to BAM and expect to finish at tender price. They have a model of winning and then using every trick and twist to claim and get extension of time

Out of interest, are there any well known examples of where they have used this approach?

Wildly Boaring · 27-12-2018 11:37am

Gentleman Off The Pitch wrote: »

Out of interest, are there any well known examples of where they have used this approach?

Currently - Port of Cork
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.irishtimes.com/business/commercial-property/works-at-cork-port-held-up-by-mistake-in-tender-court-told-1.3381362%3fmode=amp

Famously in modern years - Tralee Bypass
https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.irishexaminer.com/ireland/kerry-council-keeps-quiet-on-settlement-over-bypass-costs-overrun-337345.html

klaaaz · 16-01-2019 6:25pm

No-one is held accountable for the massive cost overrun of public money, anyone surprised?
https://www.thejournal.ie/childrens-hospital-costs-4442206-Jan2019/

SEPT 23 1989 · 16-01-2019 6:39pm

klaaaz wrote: »

No-one is held accountable for the massive cost overrun of public money, anyone surprised?
https://www.thejournal.ie/childrens-hospital-costs-4442206-Jan2019/

And the gombeens say they would do the same again

They have NO respect for the tax generators in this country

RandomName2 · 16-01-2019 6:55pm

Just apropos of Listermint's comment on page 2:

What rationale was there not to co-locate the children's hospital with Blanchardtown hospital? It has a good bit of space, full of low-res buildings, and the area beside it has been given over to the (in my opinion) lower priority of the GAA development center.

It's incredibly well serviced by the M3 and M50, and is close to the Castleknock railway station. Development in this area, which wouldn't have had such logistical difficulties in development, which would have required much less demolition, would have had far fewer barriers to installing additional infrastructure, would have caused fewer disruptions to existing services, and would ultimately serve the city and country much better, would have dramatically cut the costs of the project, as far as I can see.

TallGlass · 16-01-2019 7:04pm

RandomName2 wrote: »

Just apropos of Listermint's comment on page 2:

What rationale was there not to co-locate the children's hospital with Blanchardtown hospital? It has a good bit of space, full of low-res buildings, and the area beside it has been given over to the (in my opinion) lower priority of the GAA development center.

It's incredibly well serviced by the M3 and M50, and is close to the Castleknock railway station.

Makes to much sense for the Irish Government.

Idbatterim · 16-01-2019 7:09pm

This co-location stuff is all great. But where do you draw the line? If money in no object here in this country for the hospital? then why is everything else such a joke? thousands on trolleys? pathetic justice system with not enough spaces to lock up anything but the most serious offenders etc?

If that insane cost had been known before, I wonder what the difference would have been between there and connolly? then again, when they can send half a billion up in smoke on welfare increases at a time of "full employment" as they keep on reminding us! more money that sense! total banana republic! :rolleyes:

James Brown · 16-01-2019 7:13pm

I've seen more outrage over Margret Cash, the 5 euro Christmas bonus ffs... meanwhile this **** gets pulled.
I wonder will the Indo do an expose on one of the ones lining their pockets? Will they ****.

salmocab wrote: »

It wasn’t them I heard it about tbf, one of the other contractors with a specific package.

ooo Matron!

beauf · 16-01-2019 7:17pm

RandomName2 wrote: »

...What rationale was there not to co-locate the children's hospital with Blanchardtown hospital? It has a good bit of space, full of low-res buildings, and the area beside it has been given over to the (in my opinion) lower priority of the GAA development center. ......

Blanch is already a lot smaller, than it used to be. They sold off loads of land to fund the new build. Then waited years before starting its, so the money from selling off the land wasn't enough.

I think they had planned to slowly get rid of Blanch before they U-turned and modernised it. Still feels half built.

The NAC and a load of housing estates are between Blanch and the GAA. The land was gone before the GAA and other stuff was built.

wrangler · 16-01-2019 8:04pm

Public service should hang their head in shame for what they've done here.
Irish taxpayers can't afford the public service as it is now.......no longer sustainable
Time to shout stop

enricoh · 16-01-2019 8:22pm

wrangler wrote: »

Public service should hang their head in shame for what they've done here.
Irish taxpayers can't afford the public service as it is now.......no longer sustainable
Time to shout stop

No chance, time for the unions to shout more instead!
The government bailed out the hse in the budget for e700 million overrun in day to day spending in 2018.
The hospitality industry got shafted in the last budget to pay for it.
It'll be some other sector in 2019.
Government spending increased nearly 9%last year iirc - at a time of full employment!

Amirani · 16-01-2019 8:26pm

RandomName2 wrote: »

Just apropos of Listermint's comment on page 2:

What rationale was there not to co-locate the children's hospital with Blanchardtown hospital? It has a good bit of space, full of low-res buildings, and the area beside it has been given over to the (in my opinion) lower priority of the GAA development center.

It's incredibly well serviced by the M3 and M50, and is close to the Castleknock railway station. Development in this area, which wouldn't have had such logistical difficulties in development, which would have required much less demolition, would have had far fewer barriers to installing additional infrastructure, would have caused fewer disruptions to existing services, and would ultimately serve the city and country much better, would have dramatically cut the costs of the project, as far as I can see.

It's a far inferior hospital to the other Primary hospitals. It could've gone to Connolly, but the costs would also be very large if the true benefits of co-location were to be achieved, i.e. relocating significant amounts of services and specialties from the other Primary hospitals.

Most of the cost overruns on the James's site aren't related to it being located in Dublin 8.

wrangler · 16-01-2019 8:35pm

enricoh wrote: »

No chance, time for the unions to shout more instead!
The government bailed out the hse in the budget for e700 million overrun in day to day spending in 2018.
The hospitality industry got shafted in the last budget to pay for it.
It'll be some other sector in 2019.
Government spending increased nearly 9%last year iirc - at a time of full employment!

If employees shout for more money to finance increased tax to finance this waste, companies will just fold up and go elsewhere.

beauf · 16-01-2019 8:49pm

wrangler wrote: »

Public service should hang their head in shame for what they've done here.
Irish taxpayers can't afford the public service as it is now.......no longer sustainable
Time to shout stop

Stop electing these govt then...

beauf · 16-01-2019 8:53pm

Amirani wrote: »

It's a far inferior hospital to the other Primary hospitals. It could've gone to Connolly, but the costs would also be very large if the true benefits of co-location were to be achieved, i.e. relocating significant amounts of services and specialties from the other Primary hospitals.

Most of the cost overruns on the James's site aren't related to it being located in Dublin 8.

Never convinced by the co location argument.

But that aside. Did they not have major extra unexpected costs in the groundworks. Are those not location specific especially green field Vs a congested heavily built on site.

wrangler · 16-01-2019 9:07pm

beauf wrote: »

Stop electing these govt then...

It'd be the same no matter who's in, TDs and Ministers are just glove puppets.
Take this nurses action, one branch of the public service asking anther branch for an increase in salary....... doesn't take a genius to know what the answer will be
.Rising tide lifting all boats as it were

awec · 16-01-2019 9:37pm

beauf wrote: »

Stop electing these govt then...

The government can change, the civil servants running the show will not. They are bulletproof.

And the board that is supposed to oversee it is a mix of hospital types and architect types from the private sector.

Wildly Boaring · 16-01-2019 9:40pm

beauf wrote: »

Never convinced by the co location argument.

But that aside. Did they not have major extra unexpected costs in the groundworks. Are those not location specific especially green field Vs a congested heavily built on site.

Massive uncharted sewers reportedly

beauf · 16-01-2019 11:29pm

wrangler wrote: »

It'd be the same no matter who's in, TDs and Ministers are just glove puppets.
Take this nurses action, one branch of the public service asking anther branch for an increase in salary....... doesn't take a genius to know what the answer will be
.Rising tide lifting all boats as it were

... so I guess this will be another thread of everyone blaming everyone else, other than the politicians. Considering the politicial interference that has gone on, with this project.

wrangler · 16-01-2019 11:39pm

beauf wrote: »

... so I guess this will be another thread of everyone blaming everyone else, other than the politicians. Considering the politicial interference that has gone on, with this project.

Just saying that changing the glove puppets won't make any difference, they don't write the speeches

beauf · 17-01-2019 12:23am

You mean someone writes trump's drivel....

Master of the Omniverse · 17-01-2019 12:27am

beauf wrote: »

You mean someone writes trump's drivel....

Slightly off topic.....

beauf · 17-01-2019 12:40am

You can't have it both ways either the politicians have no influence or they do. Every crisis in this country someone always gives the politicians a free pass.

If the public services provide a service it's too expensive. If they outsource it to the private sector it's even more expensive.

So no matter who it is, someone on boards will always have a reason to pass the buck to someone else.

klaaaz · 17-01-2019 12:49am

The head of this project with it's projected 1bn overcost, on behalf of us the taxpayers they should be sacked with no pension to suck off us. Today you learnt in front of the Oireachteas committee that will never happen thanks to FFG and to add insult for the public, they saw no fault in their "procedures".

Master of the Omniverse · 17-01-2019 12:54am

klaaaz wrote: »

The head of this project with it's projected 1bn overcost, on behalf of us the taxpayers they should be sacked with no pension to suck off us. Today you learnt in front of the Oireachteas committee that will never happen thanks to FFG and to add insult for the public, they saw no fault in their "procedures".

Just one allmighty gravy train,that's keeps on running.We keep footing the bill,and it keeps on running,just how it always has.Nothing new here folks.

MarkHenderson · 17-01-2019 8:04am

I don't know what's more depressing the cost of the overrun in the price or the fact as we all know nobody will be accountable for it. Joke of a country.

MarkHenderson · 17-01-2019 8:07am

klaaaz wrote: »

The head of this project with it's projected 1bn overcost, on behalf of us the taxpayers they should be sacked with no pension to suck off us. Today you learnt in front of the Oireachteas committee that will never happen thanks to FFG and to add insult for the public, they saw no fault in their "procedures".

I don't blame FFG as much as the fools who keep voting for them.

mariaalice · 17-01-2019 11:09am

Everyone who has an issue with the public services and unions wants to blame them, everyone who has an issue with the government want to blame them, everyone who has an issue with the construction industry blame them ad infinitum.

I don't know what the ins and outs of this are or who is to 'blame'

The media seem to amplifies everything and then you have the public looking for unreal levels of accountable but are outraged when this cost money.

Wheeliebin30 · 17-01-2019 12:28pm

FF have some neck, Stephen Donnelley on radio of course blaming FG.

The port tunnel, the luas to name a few ran to double their budget all under FF, yet he won’t mention that.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.independent.ie/irish-news/port-tunnel-cost-804m-50pc-more-than-budget-26717361.html

Ugh Irish politics is a joke.

salmocab · 17-01-2019 12:33pm

Sure as anything this is a 2 billion project that will hold back a load more projects. From the start with Bertie this has been a mess of a project the incompetence shown by several governments has been breathtaking.

mariaalice · 17-01-2019 12:57pm

Wheeliebin30 wrote: »

FF have some neck, Stephen Donnelley on radio of course blaming FG.

The port tunnel, the luas to name a few ran to double their budget all under FF, yet he won’t mention that.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.independent.ie/irish-news/port-tunnel-cost-804m-50pc-more-than-budget-26717361.html

Ugh Irish politics is a joke.

The public are getting wise to such antics I don't know if he would get elected again.

monkeybutter · 17-01-2019 1:05pm

MarkHenderson wrote: »

I don't blame FFG as much as the fools who keep voting for them.

who do we vote for exactly?

The problem is no one in their right mind would stand for election in the first place

The the system is rigged for status quo

Even if you get elected, you are on your own, what difference would you make

Why would anyone vote for you over someone in a party who could in theory get something done in the first place

so you end up with this

Turkeys wouldn't vote for xmass after all

Master of the Omniverse · 17-01-2019 3:07pm

Wheeliebin30 wrote: »

FF have some neck, Stephen Donnelley on radio of course blaming FG.

The port tunnel, the luas to name a few ran to double their budget all under FF, yet he won’t mention that.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.independent.ie/irish-news/port-tunnel-cost-804m-50pc-more-than-budget-26717361.html

Ugh Irish politics is a joke.

I wonder if you would reply to this post,I'm just checking that I haven't been shadow banned,would be much appreciated,thanks

James Brown · 17-01-2019 3:09pm

wrangler wrote: »

Public service should hang their head in shame for what they've done here.
Irish taxpayers can't afford the public service as it is now.......no longer sustainable
Time to shout stop

I would bet tax payer money that this has more to do with councilor or TD inappropriate behavior Noonan style than errors by admin staff.

James Brown · 17-01-2019 3:11pm

Wheeliebin30 wrote: »

FF have some neck, Stephen Donnelley on radio of course blaming FG.

The port tunnel, the luas to name a few ran to double their budget all under FF, yet he won’t mention that.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.independent.ie/irish-news/port-tunnel-cost-804m-50pc-more-than-budget-26717361.html

Ugh Irish politics is a joke.

We all know FG are not responsible for anything. Sure it's all Richard Boyd Barrett and that

TallGlass · 17-01-2019 3:24pm

As above regards voting. I was only thinking to myself, the entire system is a complete farce.

You 'vote' for the best of a bunch of failures, what happens if you just didn't vote, I mean no body voted for anyone, what would be the case then?

Why isn't there an option on voting sheets, 'None of the above'.

Local and EU elections coming up soon, and if you where to ask me who or what in my local area they do, I wouldn't have a breeze, I know the local councillors are something to do with DCC (in Dublin) and seem to be more interested in flags and overseas issues than local issues. As for EU elections, lost on me what exactly it is I am voting for.

The one thing that seems to be a common denominator between, TD's, Councillors, Senate members is they are really piss poor with public fiances.

However when it comes to reaching into there own pockets they are the most efficient bunch of people with finances and claiming expenses it seems.

James Brown · 17-01-2019 5:55pm

TallGlass wrote: »

As above regards voting. I was only thinking to myself, the entire system is a complete farce.

You 'vote' for the best of a bunch of failures, what happens if you just didn't vote, I mean no body voted for anyone, what would be the case then?

Why isn't there an option on voting sheets, 'None of the above'.

Local and EU elections coming up soon, and if you where to ask me who or what in my local area they do, I wouldn't have a breeze, I know the local councillors are something to do with DCC (in Dublin) and seem to be more interested in flags and overseas issues than local issues. As for EU elections, lost on me what exactly it is I am voting for.

The one thing that seems to be a common denominator between, TD's, Councillors, Senate members is they are really piss poor with public fiances.

However when it comes to reaching into there own pockets they are the most efficient bunch of people with finances and claiming expenses it seems.

The trouble with not voting or 'none of the above' is that the inbred FF/FG voters will have less obstetricals getting their brand of mafioso back in. Even during the last crash FF were still a top party. And look at FG after rewarding them with the you scratch my arse I'll scratch yours agreement.
The Seanad is a farce.

JohnnyFlash · 17-01-2019 6:07pm

Matt Barrett wrote: »

The trouble with not voting or 'none of the above' is that the inbred FF/FG voters will have less obstetricals getting their brand of mafioso back in. Even during the last crash FF were still a top party. And look at FG after rewarding them with the you scratch my arse I'll scratch yours agreement.
The Seanad is a farce.

You need to calm down about FG and FF. It’s all you seem to go on about. Listen, they aren’t perfect, but they represent the beliefs and values of the majority of the people of this state. Those gibbering lefties up in the far corners of the Dail don’t. Cranks and moaners never have workable solutions to anything.

tomoliver · 18-01-2019 9:29pm

beauf wrote: »

Never convinced by the co location argument.

But that aside. Did they not have major extra unexpected costs in the groundworks. Are those not location specific especially green field Vs a congested heavily built on site.

they built a huge 1300 bed co-located hospital in glasgow for half the cost of this 300 bed hospital thats costing 1.7 billion

brownfield site with emergency departments and research departments and everything under the sun included
https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-scotland-glasgow-west-30987950

Alrigghtythen · 18-01-2019 9:29pm

****ing hell

hmmm · 18-01-2019 9:31pm

We don't do accountability in this country. The Minister should be resigning for such a cost disaster if he didn't manage the costs properly. If he was given false information by those planning this project, they should resign.

tomoliver · 18-01-2019 9:42pm

The can build a 300-bed hospital in the uk for 100 milion (on a greenfield site)

€1bn cost overrun for new Children's Hospital

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