Beekeeping chit chat

yosemitesam1 · 29-06-2020 11:02am

SouthWesterly wrote: »

Was chatting to a friend recently about beekeeping. We're both thinking about next year.

Has anyone come across a skep hive or indeed used them?

Skeps won't allow you to manage bees, even in the pre varroa days when the country was rotten with wild bees to repopulate losses they were replaced for good reason.

Danzy · 29-06-2020 1:44pm

SouthWesterly wrote: »

Was chatting to a friend recently about beekeeping. We're both thinking about next year.

Has anyone come across a skep hive or indeed used them?

Worked well before varroa as Sam says, bees were plentiful and easily caught and kept.

You have to kill them to manage them.

Hard to keep the hours alive at times,even with management.

Top bar hive maybe but a national hive is the job for a beginner, learn the craft.

SouthWesterly · 01-07-2020 11:27pm

Need to do a course in the spring. My wife's aunt has been keeping bees for decades in Eastern Europe. Has a fantastic, set up.

bpmurray · 02-07-2020 11:38pm

SouthWesterly wrote: »

Need to do a course in the spring. My wife's aunt has been keeping bees for decades in Eastern Europe. Has a fantastic, set up.

Eastern and especially Central Europe has a great beekeeping tradition. However, in Ireland use Irish equipment and Irish bees. The most common hive here is the National, making it cheaper than others. Also Carnolian bees are used in Central Europe but they'll become unmanageable because of hybridisation if imported, and there's a good chance they'll make all hives unmanageable for miles around. Make sure you keep the same breed of bee as your neighbours. And, of course, join your local association.

Danzy · 05-07-2020 5:50pm

bpmurray wrote: »

Eastern and especially Central Europe has a great beekeeping tradition. However, in Ireland use Irish equipment and Irish bees. The most common hive here is the National, making it cheaper than others. Also Carnolian bees are used in Central Europe but they'll become unmanageable because of hybridisation if imported, and there's a good chance they'll make all hives unmanageable for miles around. Make sure you keep the same breed of bee as your neighbours. And, of course, join your local association.

I've hives in North Cork and Cork city and the difference between management is surprising.

Eastern Europe might as well be Australia when it comes to bees.

They did genetic studies if bees in Ireland and outside of Dublin and Cork bees are very pure native strains and it's easy this summer to see why. Highly challenging weather.

Mellifera · 05-07-2020 8:46pm

Bought a box of bees last year and didn't realise at the time that they weren't native... they have an orange stripe. Am now trying to get back to building native stocks but have no guarantee that they won't mate with non native.
Got two splits from a neighbour which are black but they're still an orange stripe showing up every now and again which suggests they are a bit hybrid!

05-07-2020 10:59pm

Mellifera wrote: »

Bought a box of bees last year and didn't realise at the time that they weren't native... they have an orange stripe. Am now trying to get back to building native stocks but have no guarantee that they won't mate with non native.
Got two splits from a neighbour which are black but they're still an orange stripe showing up every now and again which suggests they are a bit hybrid!

This is another reason why beginners should do courses before getting bees. They should get whatever type of bee is already in their locality. For most of the country this means the native back bee, but some areas eg Leitrim, I think people keep buckfasts. The reason for this is that bees breed in the wild and keeping the wrong strain in an area does no service to yourself or to the other beekeepers in a wide radius.
Having said that, it is true that orange stripes are a good indication, but not a guarantee, that the bee may be non native. Some natives can throw up the occasional stripe from the distant genetic past and still be 100% native. or a queen might mate with say one non native drone and 14 native drones and throw up a proportion of stripey workers.
I wouldnt worry about the occasional stripey bee, but if it seemed like a definite feature or the colony becomes extra defensive, then it would be worth considering to replace the queen.

yosemitesam1 · 06-07-2020 12:13pm

bpmurray wrote: »

Eastern and especially Central Europe has a great beekeeping tradition. However, in Ireland use Irish equipment and Irish bees. The most common hive here is the National, making it cheaper than others. Also Carnolian bees are used in Central Europe but they'll become unmanageable because of hybridisation if imported, and there's a good chance they'll make all hives unmanageable for miles around. Make sure you keep the same breed of bee as your neighbours. And, of course, join your local association.

What carniolan lines have you had that produced aggressive bees?

Mellifera · 06-07-2020 1:39pm

Deleted User wrote: »

This is another reason why beginners should do courses before getting bees. They should get whatever type of bee is already in their locality. For most of the country this means the native back bee, but some areas eg Leitrim, I think people keep buckfasts. The reason for this is that bees breed in the wild and keeping the wrong strain in an area does no service to yourself or to the other beekeepers in a wide radius.
Having said that, it is true that orange stripes are a good indication, but not a guarantee, that the bee may be non native. Some natives can throw up the occasional stripe from the distant genetic past and still be 100% native. or a queen might mate with say one non native drone and 14 native drones and throw up a proportion of stripey workers.
I wouldnt worry about the occasional stripey bee, but if it seemed like a definite feature or the colony becomes extra defensive, then it would be worth considering to replace the queen.

Take your point on the courses!
Re your point of sticking with what's in the locality, I bought the box of bees from a keeper 4 miles away...so they are already in
the locality but yes, am in the process of trying to replace queen with a black one.

bpmurray · 08-07-2020 1:12pm

yosemitesam1 wrote: »

What carniolan lines have you had that produced aggressive bees?

I haven't but a friend brought them in, and found that when they were split and then superseded that they became really defensive, i.e. 2 generations. This is a typical behaviour when you create hybrids - presumably the new queens mated with native bees, so the F2 queens were mongrels with the demonic nature normally associated with that.

Danzy · 15-08-2020 12:32am

Is there any part of the country with a harvest of honey this year?

yosemitesam1 · 15-08-2020 8:00am

Danzy wrote: »

Is there any part of the country with a harvest of honey this year?

20-30lbs of summer honey on average and looking like heather will be over 60lbs average

Danzy · 15-08-2020 8:17am

yosemitesam1 wrote: »

20-30lbs of summer honey on average and looking like heather will be over 60lbs average

Very good, what county are you in.

yosemitesam1 · 15-08-2020 9:29am

Danzy wrote: »

Very good, what county are you in.

South east (multiple counties)

Danzy · 21-11-2020 8:17pm

Unusual problem.

I was given 2 nucs by a person who wasn't looking after them, they are reasonably strong, healthy but they haven't resources to see them to Spring.

I was thinking of putting them in to an old house, to keep the temperature up comfortable for them, fondant ina super and let them fill up the brood for a week.

They'll be closed in to the nuc.

A strange situation but I have to give them some chance.

How long is too long to keep them locked in

Mellifera · 21-11-2020 8:36pm

Danzy wrote: »

Unusual problem.

I was given 2 nucs by a person who wasn't looking after them, they are reasonably strong, healthy but they haven't resources to see them to Spring.

I was thinking of putting them in to an old house, to keep the temperature up comfortable for them, fondant ina super and let them fill up the brood for a week.

They'll be closed in to the nuc.

A strange situation but I have to give them some chance.

How long is too long to keep them locked in

Would it be worth combining them to make one strong one?
Aside from that, why lock them into the nuc? Why not just keep them in the old house but able to get out? Wouldn't they need to be able to get at water if they have fondant on? Asking more questions than offering solutions, sorry!

Danzy · 21-11-2020 8:58pm

Mellifera wrote: »

Would it be worth combining them to make one strong one?
Aside from that, why lock them into the nuc? Why not just keep them in the old house but able to get out? Wouldn't they need to be able to get at water if they have fondant on? Asking more questions than offering solutions, sorry!

They do not have enough resources either way. They're strong enough as is, well, have overwintered the likes before comfortably .

I could black out a window and leave it open on top n, would they fly out, hopefully.

Maybe feeding a very thick syrup in a feeder might be better.

I could jig up an entrance pipe through the window, keep the colony warm enough to draw down and cap but still go for cleansing flights, water etc.

It's an unusual situation, at the least I'll have 2 poly nuc boxes but I feel I have to give them every chance to survive.

victor8600 · 21-11-2020 9:00pm

Danzy wrote: »

They'll be closed in to the nuc.

I would slap a bag of fondant on top of the frames and check if they have taken it again in 3 weeks.

If you have spare frames of food, then add those and leave them be.

Danzy · 21-11-2020 9:31pm

The reason I want to put them inside is that it is meant to get cold. My concern is it might be too cold for them to take it down.

Thud · 21-11-2020 9:37pm

Danzy wrote: »

The reason I want to put them inside is that it is meant to get cold. My concern is it might be too cold for them to take it down.

I've one hive still taking syrup down, if they need it and you add it to feeder warm they will take some of it down

then try the fondant after that

yosemitesam1 · 22-11-2020 9:51am

Danzy wrote: »

The reason I want to put them inside is that it is meant to get cold. My concern is it might be too cold for them to take it down.

Put fondant directly on the frames over the cluster and they will have no issues taking it no matter how cold it gets

Danzy · 16-03-2021 11:57pm

They are flying and pollen is going in.

All but one of my 17 colonies survived the winter.

I merged weak ones pre winter.

Surprised at the success rate, wettest 9 months I've seen.

Mellifera · 17-03-2021 10:12am

Danzy wrote: »

They are flying and pollen is going in.

All but one of my 17 colonies survived the winter.

I merged weak ones pre winter.

Surprised at the success rate, wettest 9 months I've seen.

Happy days! Did your nuc that you picked up towards the end survive?
I have 7/7... think they're safe enough at this stage although it's to get quite cold over next couple of weeks I think.

Danzy · 17-03-2021 11:38am

Mellifera wrote: »

Happy days! Did your nuc that you picked up towards the end survive?
I have 7/7... think they're safe enough at this stage although it's to get quite cold over next couple of weeks I think.

It did, doing quite well.

Should be building strongly for the next 10 days. You'd expect it to be over the greatest risk now, unless all of April is cold.

ezra_ · 17-03-2021 10:00pm

Danzy wrote: »

They are flying and pollen is going in.

All but one of my 17 colonies survived the winter.

I merged weak ones pre winter.

Surprised at the success rate, wettest 9 months I've seen.

Great to hear.

Our two (a nuc and a full hive) seem to have survived, seeing plenty of pollen going in.

I had fed them with fondant, and have just replaced the nuc's fondant as they had eaten most of it. Hopefully, both queens are still there and laying, and it doesn't get too cold over the next few weeks!

Danzy · 26-03-2021 10:01pm

My hives in North Cork are heavy, my hives in Cork are lighter, alive with bees, had to put fondant on one of them.

Hillybilly4 · 26-03-2021 10:40pm

My mentor said never feed fondant after St. Patrick's Day. If they need feeding after that date it's to be syrup. (Am in North Cork).

Danzy · 26-03-2021 10:55pm

Probably right, they are hungry bees and I was concerned that they would be hungry and dead.

They are buckfast, by God but they eat and eat. I have them in Cork City. Would never keep them in Duhallow, to not taint native strain but also because last year you'd have been feeding them with a shovel to stand still. Some bees aren't built for months of rain.

Had he reasons for that, I can guess it is that it mimics natural flow for the time of year while fondant is long term.

SouthWesterly · 27-03-2021 3:22pm

I have a guy putting some hives on my land and plan on being with him while he's working to try learn a bit.

Do I need a full suit or would a jacket and net be enough?

I don't want to spend a fortune. Can someone recommend a supplier?
Tia

Genghis Cant · 27-03-2021 8:18pm

SouthWesterly wrote: »

I have a guy putting some hives on my land and plan on being with him while he's working to try learn a bit.

Do I need a full suit or would a jacket and net be enough?

I don't want to spend a fortune. Can someone recommend a supplier?
Tia

I only have the hood/net face cover. I wear it over a boiler suit. And a jacket when they're nasty!
Herself has the full kit.

Hillybilly4 · 28-03-2021 10:56am

Danzy wrote: »

Probably right, they are hungry bees and I was concerned that they would be hungry and dead.

They are buckfast, by God but they eat and eat. I have them in Cork City. Would never keep them in Duhallow, to not taint native strain but also because last year you'd have been feeding them with a shovel to stand still. Some bees aren't built for months of rain.

Had he reasons for that, I can guess it is that it mimics natural flow for the time of year while fondant is long term.

I guess so. It was texted so he didn't elaborate. I shall ask him when I see him next!

Thud · 29-03-2021 11:12am

There is no hard rules in beekeeping, what works for him may not work for you a few miles away. Also weather patterns are changing so Patricks day one year you could be snowed in and 20 degrees the following.

Danzy · 29-03-2021 8:03pm

There is about 6 weeks of a difference between hives in Cork City and North Cork.

Honey bound, starting swarms, seen in Cork in a nice April. Have one hive that I will give a deep to in another week, weather permitting.

Not a chance of that in the north of the country.

Danzy · 24-04-2021 9:15pm

Time for me to start posting soon about how it will be a massive year for bees.

Get your Syrup ready for emergency feed in July..

Mellifera · 28-04-2021 8:37pm

Question for ye:
Do you remove supers when they are filled or do you leave them to the bitter end?
I've seen some that say remove when capped and others that leave them on. If you have a particularly productive hive and get, say, three to four supers on them, if you keep them on then you'd have to be lugging them off each week/fortnight to inspect...not good for the back. Or is it a case that if you get that far that they are unlikely to swarm so you just let them to it?
Interested in the feedback.
Thanks

Mad Benny · 29-04-2021 11:34am

Mellifera wrote: »

Question for ye:
Do you remove supers when they are filled or do you leave them to the bitter end?
I've seen some that say remove when capped and others that leave them on. If you have a particularly productive hive and get, say, three to four supers on them, if you keep them on then you'd have to be lugging them off each week/fortnight to inspect...not good for the back. Or is it a case that if you get that far that they are unlikely to swarm so you just let them to it?
Interested in the feedback.
Thanks

An experienced beekeeper told me to remove when capped. I'll try it this year. I'm interested to hear others' opinions.

It's cold in Dublin today. The bees aren't flying now

victor8600 · 29-04-2021 11:48am

Mellifera wrote: »

Question for ye:
Do you remove supers when they are filled or do you leave them to the bitter end?

I would remove when capped. Usually, the two frames adjacent to the walls are not fully capped, so I would stick them into another super to be capped.

SouthWesterly · 30-04-2021 9:51pm

How much honey would you expect to get from a hive of native bees?

Danzy · 05-05-2021 12:31pm

SouthWesterly wrote: »

How much honey would you expect to get from a hive of native bees?

It really depends on the year.

Think 55lb was the average given by Teagasc.

Last year, nothing and they had to be fed.

You live in North Kerry, if I recall from other threads, you'll have a longer and earlier season than many.

I've had 70lbs in Cork City and 25lbs in North Cork.

This is only my 3rd Summer so limited experience and very bad weather.

12 cold and/or wet months here since June 10th last year.

ezra_ · 06-05-2021 12:36pm

Seems there are AFB reports in Kildare; specifically in Newbridge and Leixlip.

Danzy · 29-05-2021 1:21pm

One swarm caught this morning, 6 other boxes being scouted.

It's like everyone after lockdown, first day out and everyone will be on The move today.

First day that's been a cracker.

Mad Benny · 30-05-2021 10:17pm

Danzy wrote: »

One swarm caught this morning, 6 other boxes being scouted.

It's like everyone after lockdown, first day out and everyone will be on The move today.

First day that's been a cracker.

Where are you based Danzy? I have one in the same spot as last year but no interest yet.

Danzy · 30-05-2021 11:28pm

The site is in Cork City.

I've boxes set up in a town in North Cork and not a scout seen.

There hives are more like ones in early April, in make up, activity etc.

Mad Benny · 31-05-2021 8:17am

Danzy wrote: »

The site is in Cork City.

I've boxes set up in a town in North Cork and not a scout seen.

There hives are more like ones in early April, in make up, activity etc.

I have boxes on the garage roof. Do you only put boxes on your own property/land? I was tempted to put one in a hedgerow next to the canal.

victor8600 · 31-05-2021 12:39pm

Mad Benny wrote: »

I have boxes on the garage roof. Do you only put boxes on your own property/land? I was tempted to put one in a hedgerow next to the canal.

I have traps in my apiary + on the roof of the back garden shed. But I use spare nucs for traps, so I do not want to lose them. But you can make some cheaper traps and put them in different places.

The Continental Op · 31-05-2021 5:28pm

No idea if this is a bargain or not but spotted this Amazon deal on hotukdeals and might be of use to someone here?

Bees & Co Cotton Beekeeper Suit, Natural White, Large £26.52

Some other sizes medium and XXXL under £30.

Spacecowboy30 · 04-06-2021 1:36pm

If this is not the correct place to post this query could someone please redirect it?

there is an apiary near our property in a rural location. There are about 11 or 12 hives in the apiary which is about 40 or 50 ft from our back garden. The bee keeper does not live locally and does not seem to regularly tend the bees. We have lived here for 12 years and the hives have been there for most of that time AFAIK although there may have been less of them previously.

I have made my concerns known to the beekeeper and he has acknowledged them but has never done anything to fix the situation. Every year some or many of us get stung - we are a family with young children. Two of our children have needed medical care following stings - one to A&E due to facial swelling and another time one of my children was off school for several days due also to facial swelling. In both cases it took days for the swelling to subside and both needed medication.
Sometimes we are stung by a number of bees at a time in our back garden. Always, they just come out of nowhere and seem determined to lose their lives! Visitors - kids and adults - to our garden have been stung, some multiple times. Our pet dogs have been stung multiple times and have required emergency veterinary care and medication on two occasions. The bees seem to be very aggressive. We don't go near the hives obviously. Sometimes we can hear the bees from our garden, but not always.
On a few occasions we have seen the bees swarm, which to the lay person, who has had the above experience of bees, is quite frightening.

After the beekeeper has inspected the hive it can take the bees 2 or 3 days to 'settle down'. While he is working with the bees we can forget about leaving the house and in those days afterwards we have to stay in the house for a lot of the time. Sometimes we pack up and leave because otherwise we are just locked in for the day.

I completely understand the importance of bees for the environment. And I appreciate that this is a really fulfilling hobby. And I do know the difference between a wasp and a bee for anyone who may suggest that it is the former that we are having trouble with!
When I see pictures of calm hives being tended by beekeepers with no gloves (!) it doesn't feel representative of how we have experienced living beside hives. Incidentally, the beekeeper gets stung multiple times when he goes near his hives even though he is wearing the protective suit and gloves etc.

We don't know what to do about the situation. We have spoken to the beekeeper and he has acknowledged what we tell him but it never goes beyond this. Can anyone offer any advice please?

Mad Benny · 04-06-2021 2:32pm

The beekeeper should be insured. If you ask for their insurance details they will take your concerns seriously.

Please don't use petrol. The problem can be easily solved by moving the bees to a more suitable location.

greysides · 04-06-2021 4:49pm

Mad Benny wrote: »

The beekeeper should be insured. If you ask for their insurance details they will take your concerns seriously.

Please don't use petrol. The problem can be easily solved by moving the bees to a more suitable location.

That would be killing the bees for the actions of their miscreant owner. Hardly fair! There has to be other courses of action.

If there's any other beekeepers/beekeepers group locally, they may be able to help. Otherwise, bees are livestock and the Dept of Ag. may be able to help. Or Teagasc, as I understand they have some involvement in Beekeeping.

Spacecowboy30 · 04-06-2021 5:06pm

Thanks for the replies. I probably won't go the petrol route! I will see if I can find any information relating to the Dept of Agriculture. They may be able to help. We need to do something as it can't continue like this. Communicating with the beekeeper doesn't help in this situation.

Beekeeping chit chat

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