Beekeeping chit chat

Danzy · 09-06-2020 09:40AM

Have several hives gone off lay at the moment, haven't swarmed, queen marked and present.

Guess it's June gap.

Mellifera · 09-06-2020 08:13PM

Deleted User wrote: »

If the problem is laying workers you would have zero worker brood, all drones.
Sometimes a new queen can be erratic in starting out and she needs a little time to settle into the routine.
Do they have enough stores? If not, you could feed them. As I mentioned above there isnt much nectar around now so either add a frame of stores or feed some syrup.

Guess, you're right re delayed start. They do have enough stores both of honey and pollen...they've brought a little bit in themselves as well, it's uncapped but it's still there. Will keep an eye. Thanks

Kash · 14-06-2020 12:00PM

I have a quick question. I was under the impression that you need to complete a bee-keeping course before starting with bees, but my husband (whose family kept bees in France for thirty years) says that we're good to go without one, and should start with the hive. Is the course required, or is is for complete beginners?

Danzy · 14-06-2020 01:06PM

Kash wrote: »

I have a quick question. I was under the impression that you need to complete a bee-keeping course before starting with bees, but my husband (whose family kept bees in France for thirty years) says that we're good to go without one, and should start with the hive. Is the course required, or is is for complete beginners?

He could probably give it.

I'm at 17 colonies now and never did a course.
I do have a friend who pops in at the start to advise. Join the local association.
I'd recommend it though to beginners.

Mellifera · 14-06-2020 05:18PM

Kash wrote: »

I have a quick question. I was under the impression that you need to complete a bee-keeping course before starting with bees, but my husband (whose family kept bees in France for thirty years) says that we're good to go without one, and should start with the hive. Is the course required, or is is for complete beginners?

I haven't done a full course but have done 'lectures' etc. Would recommend that you join the local association... a lot of beekeeping is about garnering from others who are experienced and as previous poster said you will always be learning. Do the course if its feasible for you but don't let not having it prevent you from bee keeping.

Danzy · 14-06-2020 06:28PM

Talking to a guy in Tipp with 170 hives, he said he considers anyone with less than 10 years experience to be a beginner.

bpmurray · 14-06-2020 11:31PM

There is no requirement to do a course but beekeeping has changed over the years and without a course you're going to run into problems at some point. In fact I would very strongly recommend that you do the intermediate and then the senior exams as you go along. Of course the preliminary "exam" is a prerequisite before these. There are so many old wive's tales and misinformation among beekeepers that it's important to have some formal education to understand what's real and what's not.

As for the measure of a beginner, I remember someone saying that you can keep 50 hives for one year or 1 hive for fifty years to get the same experience.

Apiarist · 15-06-2020 12:57PM

After 5 years keeping from 4 to 12 hives I am still very much a beginner too. The reason I know this is because I still get too many surprises!

Coming to the apiary, I have a short plan for each hive -- whether to skip its inspection, go through all frames to check for queen cells, do a split, add a feed, a super, make Apideas, etc. Almost each time something unexpected happens. A test frame in a hive which seems queenless produces no queen cells. A virgin queen is released on a frame inspection and then promptly jumps into the hive. Or I am greeted by a familiar hum while I am still far away from the hives -- someone is preparing to swarm irrespective of my previous control efforts :rolleyes:

bpmurray · 15-06-2020 09:51PM

victor8600 wrote: »

After 5 years keeping from 4 to 12 hives I am still very much a beginner too. The reason I know this is because I still get too many surprises!

Coming to the apiary, I have a short plan for each hive -- whether to skip its inspection, go through all frames to check for queen cells, do a split, add a feed, a super, make Apideas, etc. Almost each time something unexpected happens. A test frame in a hive which seems queenless produces no queen cells. A virgin queen is released on a frame inspection and then promptly jumps into the hive. Or I am greeted by a familiar hum while I am still far away from the hives -- someone is preparing to swarm irrespective of my previous control efforts :rolleyes:

Yep - pity they don't read the same books we do!

Danzy · 27-06-2020 09:33PM

Check your bees have enough stores or any at the moment .

Mad Benny · 29-06-2020 09:18AM

Danzy wrote: »

Check your bees have enough stores or any at the moment .

Thanks for the advise. Is it the bad weather?

Danzy · 29-06-2020 09:35AM

Mad Benny wrote: »

Thanks for the advise. Is it the bad weather?

Yes, little flying, forage washed of nectar and big brood early in June.

Big demand and little coming in.

29-06-2020 09:40AM

Was chatting to a friend recently about beekeeping. We're both thinking about next year.

Has anyone come across a skep hive or indeed used them?

yosemitesam1 · 29-06-2020 11:02AM

SouthWesterly wrote: »

Was chatting to a friend recently about beekeeping. We're both thinking about next year.

Has anyone come across a skep hive or indeed used them?

Skeps won't allow you to manage bees, even in the pre varroa days when the country was rotten with wild bees to repopulate losses they were replaced for good reason.

Danzy · 29-06-2020 01:44PM

SouthWesterly wrote: »

Was chatting to a friend recently about beekeeping. We're both thinking about next year.

Has anyone come across a skep hive or indeed used them?

Worked well before varroa as Sam says, bees were plentiful and easily caught and kept.

You have to kill them to manage them.

Hard to keep the hours alive at times,even with management.

Top bar hive maybe but a national hive is the job for a beginner, learn the craft.

01-07-2020 11:27PM

Need to do a course in the spring. My wife's aunt has been keeping bees for decades in Eastern Europe. Has a fantastic, set up.

bpmurray · 02-07-2020 11:38PM

SouthWesterly wrote: »

Need to do a course in the spring. My wife's aunt has been keeping bees for decades in Eastern Europe. Has a fantastic, set up.

Eastern and especially Central Europe has a great beekeeping tradition. However, in Ireland use Irish equipment and Irish bees. The most common hive here is the National, making it cheaper than others. Also Carnolian bees are used in Central Europe but they'll become unmanageable because of hybridisation if imported, and there's a good chance they'll make all hives unmanageable for miles around. Make sure you keep the same breed of bee as your neighbours. And, of course, join your local association.

Danzy · 05-07-2020 05:50PM

bpmurray wrote: »

Eastern and especially Central Europe has a great beekeeping tradition. However, in Ireland use Irish equipment and Irish bees. The most common hive here is the National, making it cheaper than others. Also Carnolian bees are used in Central Europe but they'll become unmanageable because of hybridisation if imported, and there's a good chance they'll make all hives unmanageable for miles around. Make sure you keep the same breed of bee as your neighbours. And, of course, join your local association.

I've hives in North Cork and Cork city and the difference between management is surprising.

Eastern Europe might as well be Australia when it comes to bees.

They did genetic studies if bees in Ireland and outside of Dublin and Cork bees are very pure native strains and it's easy this summer to see why. Highly challenging weather.

Mellifera · 05-07-2020 08:46PM

Bought a box of bees last year and didn't realise at the time that they weren't native... they have an orange stripe. Am now trying to get back to building native stocks but have no guarantee that they won't mate with non native.
Got two splits from a neighbour which are black but they're still an orange stripe showing up every now and again which suggests they are a bit hybrid!

05-07-2020 10:59PM

Mellifera wrote: »

Bought a box of bees last year and didn't realise at the time that they weren't native... they have an orange stripe. Am now trying to get back to building native stocks but have no guarantee that they won't mate with non native.
Got two splits from a neighbour which are black but they're still an orange stripe showing up every now and again which suggests they are a bit hybrid!

This is another reason why beginners should do courses before getting bees. They should get whatever type of bee is already in their locality. For most of the country this means the native back bee, but some areas eg Leitrim, I think people keep buckfasts. The reason for this is that bees breed in the wild and keeping the wrong strain in an area does no service to yourself or to the other beekeepers in a wide radius.
Having said that, it is true that orange stripes are a good indication, but not a guarantee, that the bee may be non native. Some natives can throw up the occasional stripe from the distant genetic past and still be 100% native. or a queen might mate with say one non native drone and 14 native drones and throw up a proportion of stripey workers.
I wouldnt worry about the occasional stripey bee, but if it seemed like a definite feature or the colony becomes extra defensive, then it would be worth considering to replace the queen.

yosemitesam1 · 06-07-2020 12:13PM

bpmurray wrote: »

Eastern and especially Central Europe has a great beekeeping tradition. However, in Ireland use Irish equipment and Irish bees. The most common hive here is the National, making it cheaper than others. Also Carnolian bees are used in Central Europe but they'll become unmanageable because of hybridisation if imported, and there's a good chance they'll make all hives unmanageable for miles around. Make sure you keep the same breed of bee as your neighbours. And, of course, join your local association.

What carniolan lines have you had that produced aggressive bees?

Mellifera · 06-07-2020 01:39PM

Deleted User wrote: »

This is another reason why beginners should do courses before getting bees. They should get whatever type of bee is already in their locality. For most of the country this means the native back bee, but some areas eg Leitrim, I think people keep buckfasts. The reason for this is that bees breed in the wild and keeping the wrong strain in an area does no service to yourself or to the other beekeepers in a wide radius.
Having said that, it is true that orange stripes are a good indication, but not a guarantee, that the bee may be non native. Some natives can throw up the occasional stripe from the distant genetic past and still be 100% native. or a queen might mate with say one non native drone and 14 native drones and throw up a proportion of stripey workers.
I wouldnt worry about the occasional stripey bee, but if it seemed like a definite feature or the colony becomes extra defensive, then it would be worth considering to replace the queen.

Take your point on the courses!
Re your point of sticking with what's in the locality, I bought the box of bees from a keeper 4 miles away...so they are already in
the locality but yes, am in the process of trying to replace queen with a black one.

bpmurray · 08-07-2020 01:12PM

yosemitesam1 wrote: »

What carniolan lines have you had that produced aggressive bees?

I haven't but a friend brought them in, and found that when they were split and then superseded that they became really defensive, i.e. 2 generations. This is a typical behaviour when you create hybrids - presumably the new queens mated with native bees, so the F2 queens were mongrels with the demonic nature normally associated with that.

Danzy · 15-08-2020 12:32AM

Is there any part of the country with a harvest of honey this year?

yosemitesam1 · 15-08-2020 08:00AM

Danzy wrote: »

Is there any part of the country with a harvest of honey this year?

20-30lbs of summer honey on average and looking like heather will be over 60lbs average

Danzy · 15-08-2020 08:17AM

yosemitesam1 wrote: »

20-30lbs of summer honey on average and looking like heather will be over 60lbs average

Very good, what county are you in.

yosemitesam1 · 15-08-2020 09:29AM

Danzy wrote: »

Very good, what county are you in.

South east (multiple counties)

Danzy · 21-11-2020 08:17PM

Unusual problem.

I was given 2 nucs by a person who wasn't looking after them, they are reasonably strong, healthy but they haven't resources to see them to Spring.

I was thinking of putting them in to an old house, to keep the temperature up comfortable for them, fondant ina super and let them fill up the brood for a week.

They'll be closed in to the nuc.

A strange situation but I have to give them some chance.

How long is too long to keep them locked in

Mellifera · 21-11-2020 08:36PM

Danzy wrote: »

Unusual problem.

I was given 2 nucs by a person who wasn't looking after them, they are reasonably strong, healthy but they haven't resources to see them to Spring.

I was thinking of putting them in to an old house, to keep the temperature up comfortable for them, fondant ina super and let them fill up the brood for a week.

They'll be closed in to the nuc.

A strange situation but I have to give them some chance.

How long is too long to keep them locked in

Would it be worth combining them to make one strong one?
Aside from that, why lock them into the nuc? Why not just keep them in the old house but able to get out? Wouldn't they need to be able to get at water if they have fondant on? Asking more questions than offering solutions, sorry!

Danzy · 21-11-2020 08:58PM

Mellifera wrote: »

Would it be worth combining them to make one strong one?
Aside from that, why lock them into the nuc? Why not just keep them in the old house but able to get out? Wouldn't they need to be able to get at water if they have fondant on? Asking more questions than offering solutions, sorry!

They do not have enough resources either way. They're strong enough as is, well, have overwintered the likes before comfortably .

I could black out a window and leave it open on top n, would they fly out, hopefully.

Maybe feeding a very thick syrup in a feeder might be better.

I could jig up an entrance pipe through the window, keep the colony warm enough to draw down and cap but still go for cleansing flights, water etc.

It's an unusual situation, at the least I'll have 2 poly nuc boxes but I feel I have to give them every chance to survive.

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