Does anyone actually believe that Gerry Adams wasn't in the IRA?

James Brown · 17-09-2019 3:59pm

xckjoo wrote: »

What are you on about?

I thought 'woke' was socially aware? You said this young lad wasn't having it that Adams was in the 'RA and he was somehow 'woke'?

James Brown · 17-09-2019 4:01pm

SafeSurfer wrote: »

Know who is sidestepping. Can you not bring yourself to acknowledge that Adams is a liar. A known and consistent liar and because he is perceived to be a liar he has no integrity in the eyes of many of the electorate who’s votes he tried to win? The fact that he is a liar with no integrity did huge damage to the republican movement in recent years. His inability to tell the truth made him a laughing stock. Nelson Mandela he ain’t.

I think he is. You're desperate to score points bless. He said he wasn't in the 'RA, I think he was. Was it too complex to comprehend?

And I said he'd be stupid to come out as IRA.
Now you're just having a dig again, have at it

markodaly wrote: »

What is the logic about lying about it for the past 20 years when there is no danger to his personal freedom?
McGuinness admitted his membership, as have many people and they have gotten on with their lives.

The fact you are here defending a pathological lier says it all.

Defending him by explaining why he might have lied? Do you get ...'words' at all?

lawrencesummers · 17-09-2019 4:03pm

There is a bigger question that people should answer.

Not do we believe him when he say that he wasn’t, but

Is it worse that he was actually in the IRA or that he is lying about not being in it.

ie. He is a politician, they all are economical with the truth at times, is the problem that he has possibly lied, or is he less of a person because he was in the IRA?

James Brown · 17-09-2019 4:05pm

lawrencesummers wrote: »

There is a bigger question that people should answer.

Not do we believe him when he say that he wasn’t, but

Is it worse that he was actually in the IRA or that he is lying about not being in it.

ie. He is a politician, they all are economical with the truth at times, is the problem that he has possibly lied, or is he less of a person because he was in the IRA?

He'd likely have been locked up, sued or less likely to have been invited to the discussion table if he came out as IRA, IMO.

markodaly · 17-09-2019 4:06pm

Matt Barrett wrote: »

Defending him by explaining why he might have lied? Do you get ...'words' at all?

Yes, defending him as to why he has lied about a simple fact all these years.
Why has he lied about it since the GFA?

As an aside, this thread is going be comedy gold the next time you try and take the high moral ground over some other issue of note.
*bookmarked*

xckjoo · 17-09-2019 4:07pm

Matt Barrett wrote: »

I thought 'woke' was socially aware? You said this young lad wasn't having it that Adams was in the 'RA and he was somehow 'woke'?

"woke" in terms of believing he had his eyes open to things most people don't see. The kind of person that thinks he has the inside track on everything when in fact he's careening off into the bushes of fantasy.

James Brown · 17-09-2019 4:10pm

markodaly wrote: »

Yes, defending him as to why he has lied about a simple fact all these years.
Why has he lied about it since the GFA?

As an aside, this thread is going be comedy gold the next time you try and take the high moral ground over some other issue of note.
*bookmarked*

I gave reasons why he might have lied, IMO. If that's 'defending' him, fair enough so. There was me thinking we discussed things when you seem intent on attacking and scoring points.

Marko, try engaging in discussion, it's more healthy than waiting in the wings to score points, just saying.

Conall Cernach · 17-09-2019 4:14pm

markodaly wrote: »

Yes, defending him as to why he has lied about a simple fact all these years.
Why has he lied about it since the GFA?

As an aside, this thread is going be comedy gold the next time you try and take the high moral ground over some other issue of note.
*bookmarked*

Because it is still an offence to be a member of the IRA with a sentence of around 7 years. For directing terrorism, which is what he'd be looking at for being on the Army Council he'd expect a 20 year sentence. Now this might be mitigated as it was pre-GFA to "only" 2 years but he'd still be mad to admit it.

headnorth · 17-09-2019 4:15pm

ednwireland wrote:

i suspect he was never made to swear allegience (or whatever they do ) to the IRA, basically as a way of giving him political plausible deniability when the armalite and ballot box strategy was invented.

ednwireland wrote:

he may have ordered attacksa sat on army council meetings but was never officialy a member.

ednwireland wrote:

officialy possibly not in every other respect however yes !

Correct. He never swore an oath with the ira green book in his hand.

Danzy · 17-09-2019 4:17pm

begsbyOnaTrain wrote: »

Yet another senior IRA man comes out saying that Adams was in it - https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-49718168

I was surprised to see this in the top news stories because like, who doesn't believe this? We've had numerous other IRA people come out and say it in the past (and give details of the murders he ordered) so is this a shock to anyone? The man's been lying for decades but it just suits all sides to nod away and agree.

Yet to meet someone who really cares either way.

SafeSurfer · 17-09-2019 4:18pm

Matt Barrett wrote: »

markodaly wrote: »

Yes, defending him as to why he has lied about a simple fact all these years.
Why has he lied about it since the GFA?

As an aside, this thread is going be comedy gold the next time you try and take the high moral ground over some other issue of note.
*bookmarked*

I gave reasons why he might have lied, IMO. If that's 'defending' him, fair enough so. There was me thinking we discussed things when you seem intent on attacking and scoring points.

Marko, try engaging in discussion, it's more healthy than waiting in the wings to score points, just saying.

You could ask him to have an “honest” debate but in the context of defending a liars lies it could be awkward.

Adams consistent lying is one thing but when former close friends came out and told the truth he labeled them liars and condemned them in a death spiral of lies which shredded not only his credibility but exposed the true character of the man.

Danzy · 17-09-2019 4:21pm

SafeSurfer wrote: »

Know who is sidestepping. Can you not bring yourself to acknowledge that Adams is a liar. A known and consistent liar and because he is perceived to be a liar he has no integrity in the eyes of many of the electorate who’s votes he tried to win? The fact that he is a liar with no integrity did huge damage to the republican movement in recent years. His inability to tell the truth made him a laughing stock. Nelson Mandela he ain’t.

Mandela disagreed with you.

He thought so highly of Adams and another senior Republican activist that he had them as part of his international honour Guard an honour he gave to very few.

Mandela was a wee provie all the same.

SafeSurfer · 17-09-2019 4:24pm

Danzy wrote: »

SafeSurfer wrote: »

Know who is sidestepping. Can you not bring yourself to acknowledge that Adams is a liar. A known and consistent liar and because he is perceived to be a liar he has no integrity in the eyes of many of the electorate who’s votes he tried to win? The fact that he is a liar with no integrity did huge damage to the republican movement in recent years. His inability to tell the truth made him a laughing stock. Nelson Mandela he ain’t.

Mandela disagreed with you.

He thought so highly of Adams and another senior Republican activist that he had them as part of his international honour Guard an honour he gave to very few.

Mandela was a wee provie all the same.

No. You misunderstood. He wanted him there because he knew Gerry had vast experience of burying bodies.

TheValeyard · 17-09-2019 4:28pm

He will never admit it while alive. Probably legal and lawsuit ramifications the reasons why.

Upon his death, truth will come out.

He was definitely, DEFINITELY, the leader or the PIRA.

Sinbad_NI · 17-09-2019 4:29pm

Every interview or book I've read, every documentary I've seen have all said the exact same thing. Him and Martin were the top men. What's new news here?

Yurt2 · 17-09-2019 4:34pm

Pretty mad that we have an international terrorist mastermind sitting as a parliamentarian. And people thought Columbia was cracked when Pablo Escobar got elected.

There's a good Netflix series to be made about Gerry some day. An extremely interesting character, but a director of terrorism nonetheless.

maccored · 17-09-2019 4:37pm

great seeing all the experts in the one thread

Danzy · 17-09-2019 4:39pm

TheValeyard wrote: »

He will never admit it while alive. Probably legal and lawsuit ramifications the reasons why.

Upon his death, truth will come out.

He was definitely, DEFINITELY, the leader or the PIRA.

It's very easy to find out who all the chiefs of staff of the IRA have been, Provisional, Official, pre civil war, post civil war.

This isn't a revelation and put it in CAPITALS doesn't make it anything different.

JohnnyFlash · 17-09-2019 4:54pm

TheValeyard wrote: »

He will never admit it while alive. Probably legal and lawsuit ramifications the reasons why.

Upon his death, truth will come out.

He was definitely, DEFINITELY, the leader or the PIRA.

Plenty more to come out when he dies.

James Brown · 17-09-2019 4:55pm

SafeSurfer wrote: »

You could ask him to have an “honest” debate but in the context of defending a liars lies it could be awkward.

Adams consistent lying is one thing but when former close friends came out and told the truth he labeled them liars and condemned them in a death spiral of lies which shredded not only his credibility but exposed the true character of the man.

What both of you seem unable to comprehend is the question was posed regarding his membership. I took a side. I discussed why he might have lied about it. That's it. If I were truly defending him surely I'd be agreeing with him?
Why do you think he lied? Do you care? Is it just so you've some material for your little jibes? Not much of a discussion is it?

17-09-2019 4:57pm

As you say in another thread Matt, "it's about character".

If he's lying about this, consistently and for years, who knows what else he has lied about.

James Brown · 17-09-2019 5:01pm

Topgear on Dave wrote: »

As you say in another thread Matt, "it's about character".

If he's lying about this, consistently and for years, who knows what else he has lied about.

Agreed. I think everyone would have an opinion of SF one way or the other. There's perception and I would say any links to the IRA play a major role. This will likely fade away.

17-09-2019 5:03pm

Matt Barrett wrote: »

Agreed. I think everyone would have an opinion of SF one way or the other. There's perception and I would say any links to the IRA play a major role. This will likely fade away.

I'm not talking about SF or the IRA, I'm talking about Gerry.

TheValeyard · 17-09-2019 5:03pm

Danzy wrote: »

It's very easy to find out who all the chiefs of staff of the IRA have been, Provisional, Official, pre civil war, post civil war.

This isn't a revelation and put it in CAPITALS doesn't make it anything different.

I'm SO, so, SORRRRY

James Brown · 17-09-2019 5:08pm

Topgear on Dave wrote: »

I'm not talking about SF or the IRA, I'm talking about Gerry.

Pertains to all three IMO.
I thought they were one in the same. In fact I think Gerry was in the IRA.

Tammy! · 17-09-2019 6:28pm

Did the French resistance admit to being members to the Nazis when they were caught?

[Deleted User] wrote: »

At least McGuinness had the stones to own up, Adams is a spineless jellyfish.

Hardly a spineless jellyfish, a man that had to sleep in a different bed and house every night because he was being pursued by the British Secret Service and Protestant Paramilitary for years?

If he was spineless he'd have left. He was standing up for the rights of Irish Nationalists for the disenfranchised, for the defenseless. If thats spineless then he's guilty.

History tends to repeat itself and if there was a requirement for land by the British, they would take it and where would they take it from? Who'd be the spineless jellyfish then?

blanch152 · 17-09-2019 6:35pm

Matt Barrett wrote: »

Give over Marko. If you or I were in an illegal organisation we wouldn't be announcing it. That's logic.
We're talking about Gerry Adams likely being in the IRA and why he might lie about it. Catch yourself on.

Is he as big a liar as Maria Bailey?

You want her out of public life for exaggerating an insurance claim. That hardly compares to lying about ordering people to be killed.

So should Gerry Adams resign?

SafeSurfer · 17-09-2019 6:37pm

Tammy! wrote: »

Did the French resistance admit to being members to the Nazis when they were caught?

[Deleted User] wrote: »

At least McGuinness had the stones to own up, Adams is a spineless jellyfish.

Hardly a spineless jellyfish, a man that had to sleep in a different bed and house every night because he was being pursued by the British Secret Service and Protestant Paramilitary for years?

If he was spineless he'd have left. He was standing up for the rights of Irish Nationalists for the disenfranchised, for the defenseless. If thats spineless then he's guilty.

History tends to repeat itself and if there was a requirement for land by the British, they would take it and where would they take it from? Who'd be the spineless jellyfish then?

Did French resistance fighters continue to lie about it after the war was over?

blanch152 · 17-09-2019 6:38pm

SafeSurfer wrote: »

There have been many threads on Gerry Adams IRA membership before with some notable posters strenuously denying the reality.

There have indeed been some notable posters strenuously denying the reality.

maccored wrote: »

great seeing all the experts in the one thread

So you agree that Gerry was a member of the IRA and lied about it?

Edgware · 17-09-2019 6:40pm

Tammy! wrote: »

Did the French resistance admit to being members to the Nazis when they were caught?

Hardly a spineless jellyfish, a man that had to sleep in a different bed and house every night because he was being pursued by the British Secret Service and Protestant Paramilitary for years?

If he was spineless he'd have left. He was standing up for the rights of Irish Nationalists for the disenfranchised, for the defenseless. If thats spineless then he's guilty.

History tends to repeat itself and if there was a requirement for land by the British, they would take it and where would they take it from? Who'd be the spineless jellyfish then?

A lot of the Provos slept in different beds especially if there was a kid in it

17-09-2019 6:47pm

Well, Bertie said he was a socialist and Gerry said he wasn't in the IRA so who are we mere mortals to disbelieve such honourable men?

PS: Hilarious that this is being discussed in 2019. There was a time around 1993 when the great, eh, minds of the Sunday Independent had a "revelation" every. single. week. that Adams was in the IRA. Cutting edge stuff each week in 1993; cutting edge stuff in 2019.

blanch152 · 17-09-2019 6:53pm

Deleted User wrote: »

Well, Bertie said he was a socialist and Gerry said he wasn't in the IRA so who are we mere mortals to disbelieve such honourable men?

PS: Hilarious that this is being discussed in 2019. There was a time around 1993 when the great, eh, minds of the Sunday Independent had a "revelation" every. single. week. that Adams was in the IRA. Cutting edge stuff each week in 1993; cutting edge stuff in 2019.

What is amazing about it is that there are still people denying it and others excusing it.

17-09-2019 6:57pm

blanch152 wrote: »

So you agree that Gerry was a member of the IRA and lied about it?

Good man yourself, Blanch. Still fighting the good fight of 1993. Heroic stuff.

niallers1 · 17-09-2019 7:04pm

The RUC, PSNI, Gardai, MI5, MI6, and all the rest of British Intelligence have never been able to prove he was in the IRA even though they have all the resources in the world available to them.. They would have loved to have been able to prove this but the proof isn't there.

careless sherpa · 17-09-2019 7:06pm

markodaly wrote: »

What is the logic about lying about it for the past 20 years when there is no danger to his personal freedom?
McGuinness admitted his membership, as have many people and they have gotten on with their lives.

The fact you are here defending a pathological lier says it all.

The logic is that he could still be prosecuted and serve two years. What is so hard to understand about that. He would be a fool to send himself to prison just so some people who despise him anyway could say I told you so.

Danzy · 17-09-2019 7:07pm

blanch152 wrote: »

What is amazing about it is that there are still people denying it and others excusing it.

There might be but who really gives a ****, either way.

A rare few old men with too much time on their hands and nothing else to do.

17-09-2019 7:08pm

blanch152 wrote: »

What is amazing about it is that there are still people denying it and others excusing it.

That wasn't even 'amazing' 25 years ago. Jejune, pedestrian commentary at best even then. If IRA membership is the worst his opponents can throw at him (before they put on their poppies to commemorate all sorts of British thugs, of course), they must be desperate.

If lying is the worst thing they have against Adams, well, they're just not exactly familiar with what people in political life tend to do. "Oh. My. God. Gerry Adams was in the IRA!!!!" is like a 30-year-long silly season from the cerebrally challenged sorts who read the Sunday Independent.

James Brown · 17-09-2019 7:12pm

blanch152 wrote: »

What is amazing about it is that there are still people denying it and others excusing it.

If Bertie wants to self identify as a socialist, sure let him.

careless sherpa · 17-09-2019 7:19pm

rob316 wrote: »

Sinn Fein is the political wing of the IRA, the notion that anyone part of that party doesn't have ties to dissident Republicans is bollox.

I think you haven't got a clue what you are talking about. How would everyone in SF be linked to dissidents

James Brown · 17-09-2019 7:21pm

blanch152 wrote: »

Is he as big a liar as Maria Bailey?

You want her out of public life for exaggerating an insurance claim. That hardly compares to lying about ordering people to be killed.

So should Gerry Adams resign?

And you don't support and defend FG at every hands turn. Irony on the labeling methinks.

You can't compare the two. One was seeking freedom and equality while struggling under British rule, trying to gain equality for Irish people. The IRA, as mentioned numerous times was an illegal organisation. So he'd have been basically handing himself over to corrupt British authorities for their brand of justice. He likely, IMO lied about IRA membership so he could function.

Maria Bailey is a self entitled member of a condescending self righteous political party out to make money on a lie while her party pretends to be out for the tax payer.
Now back to Gerry. Not like you to change the topic off Sinn Fein. Sure you've not mentioned Maria Cahill, Jean McConville, Lord Mountbatten or Shergar yet.

James Brown · 17-09-2019 7:23pm

rob316 wrote: »

Sinn Fein is the political wing of the IRA, the notion that anyone part of that party doesn't have ties to dissident Republicans is bollox.

The only political party that did/does business with Republican dissidents is Fine Gael and Labour.

Danzy · 17-09-2019 7:25pm

rob316 wrote: »

Sinn Fein is the political wing of the IRA, the notion that anyone part of that party doesn't have ties to dissident Republicans is bollox.

Lol.

Is that a typo.

JohnnyFlash · 17-09-2019 7:26pm

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Good man yourself, Blanch. Still fighting the good fight of 1993. Heroic stuff.

Aren’t you the punter who can be counted on to mention William Martin Murphy, Strongbow, or the colour of letterboxes during one of your ponderous and turgid diatribes on this site? Bit rich then for you to be accusing others of fighting the good fight. Real dilettante of history sort of behaviour - viewing the past through the glasses of your own prejudices.

It’s very relevant that we know about the past of Adams, as he was up until recently the leader of a party who had designs on running the country. If he was the leader of an organisation which planted bombs in shopping centres or disappeared young men like Columba McVeigh then we ought to know about it.

Shinners are always accused of being extremely sensitive creatures. This is a perfect example. If the scrutiny then want festooned on others is then shone into their dark and murky corners then they start with the victim complex. The last shower who get to do that to be honest.

suicide_circus · 17-09-2019 8:13pm

Portsalon · 17-09-2019 8:43pm

suicide_circus wrote: »

Is that goat male or female?

(And, just to be absolutely clear, I mean the goat on the right hand side.)

Danzy · 17-09-2019 8:45pm

Portsalon wrote: »

Is that goat male or female?

(And, just to be absolutely clear, I mean the goat on the right hand side.)

Female

Danzy · 17-09-2019 8:52pm

Portsalon wrote: »

Aged over 18?

Think so, her name is Jenny and her milkshake brings all the Billys to the yard.

That isn't a dig against Protestants btw.

partyguinness · 17-09-2019 8:57pm

TBH it's somewhat academic now. Old news.

Sure public figures lying is all the fashion now so perhaps he was just ahead of his time.

rob316 · 17-09-2019 9:01pm

Danzy wrote: »

Lol.

Is that a typo.

Jesus yes wtf did I post there just read it back. I'll just delete and forget it ever happened

Danzy · 17-09-2019 9:02pm

rob316 wrote: »

Jesus yes wtf did I post there just read it back. I'll just delete and forget it ever happened

It fits perfectly with the thread, sure leave it.

Does anyone actually believe that Gerry Adams wasn't in the IRA?

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