Sex education in schools!

freshpopcorn · 07-03-2019 2:31pm #1

When I was in secondary school it was very basic in SPHE. Basically wear a condom to help prevent pregnancy/STD's/etc.
We also had sex education at the end of primary school.
They could have of course went into more detail but I felt most people got the message.
I do think they could of course up date the SPHE course more or bring in outsiders to discuss the matter.(Consent classes could also be done).
I heard somebody saying that the should be more discussion of sexual positions/etc but it that may be a bit over the top.

How do you think sex education should be taught in schools?

Dravokivich · 07-03-2019 2:33pm

At 11 I learned what sex is, and what can happen as a result of sex. Found it to be accurate when I got around to doing it. Has it changed much since I last did it?

tayto lover · 07-03-2019 2:34pm

A lot of us got it behind the bicycle shed.

EmmetSpiceland · 07-03-2019 2:34pm

Maybe a less practical version than the priests and nuns gave to previous generations.

one world order · 07-03-2019 2:40pm

Highlight all the diseases one can get from sleeping around or not using protection. Ensure there are pictures at the various stages.

agrostar · 07-03-2019 2:42pm

Sex education as with all education should start at home with parents talking to their children and explaining how to live, ask for consent ect. Too much is expected to be taught in schools. Parents need to talk to their children and not expect others to do everything for them even if it is a little embarrassing or awkward.

Deebles McBeebles · 07-03-2019 3:00pm

tayto lover wrote: »

A lot of us got it behind the bicycle shed.

That priest was sacked soon after though.

Deebles McBeebles · 07-03-2019 3:03pm

freshpopcorn wrote: »

How do you think sex education should be taught in schools?

Very, very carefully. It absolutely should be part of the school curriculum but only as a backup to the sex education kids should be getting at home. It was always a parents responsibility and should largely remain so.

BrokenArrows · 07-03-2019 3:33pm

I dont recall ever learning anything about sex in school, from teachers anyway!

SoundsRight · 07-03-2019 3:38pm

I'd stick to the basics, if parents want to teach kids about LGBT stuff they can do that in their own time.

eviltwin · 07-03-2019 3:44pm

Should be an ongoing thing throughout school done in an age appropriate way.

My sex ed was like an extended biology lesson and we were in 5th year, far too late

Ideally there would be no need for sex ed because all children would be raised in sex positive homes but that will never happen.

OldMrBrennan83 · 07-03-2019 3:46pm

We got told about Aids and made watch Philadelphia.

BrokenArrows · 07-03-2019 3:55pm

OSI wrote: »

What diseases are caused exclusively by "sleeping around"?

Just one, children.

:D

orourkeda1977 · 07-03-2019 4:13pm

Most kids could probably teach the teachers a thing or two about the aul ridin'

El_Duderino 09 · 07-03-2019 4:27pm

freshpopcorn wrote: »

I heard somebody saying that the should be more discussion of sexual positions/etc but it that may be a bit over the top.

How do you think sex education should be taught in schools?

Not over the top at all but I think it would be about teaching how sex can be enjoyable. Sex us mostly used as recreation and bonding between couples. So the idea of teaching about sex and ignoring the most common reason for having sex is absurd.

Likewise the consent aspect is about more than 'no means no'. It about figuring out what you want to do and knowing how to discuss it AND figuring out what your partner wants to do and how to discuss it.

So I'd look at what sex is and how it's used and teach children all they need to know about it. It's a mixture of health, hygiene, social, reproduction, bonding between couples and just plain recreation. So teach all the aspects.

El_Duderino 09 · 07-03-2019 4:31pm

SoundsRight wrote: »

I'd stick to the basics, if parents want to teach kids about LGBT stuff they can do that in their own time.

Why? Even if you just teach it as dry facts, LGBT stuff is part of the picture. Why avoid topics? Why not teach the facts and just avoid the judgmental side?

Princess Consuela Bananahammock · 07-03-2019 4:34pm

SoundsRight wrote: »

I'd stick to the basics, if parents want to teach kids about LGBT stuff they can do that in their own time.

I don't think I'd trust a lot parents to teach about homosexuality to be honest. Especially not the conservative ones.

Beyond that, what do you mean by the basics? Biology? They already know where the bits go.

Dial Hard · 07-03-2019 4:35pm

agrostar wrote: »

Sex education as with all education should start at home with parents talking to their children and explaining how to live, ask for consent ect. Too much is expected to be taught in schools. Parents need to talk to their children and not expect others to do everything for them even if it is a little embarrassing or awkward.

Deebles McBeebles wrote: »

Very, very carefully. It absolutely should be part of the school curriculum but only as a backup to the sex education kids should be getting at home. It was always a parents responsibility and should largely remain so.

The problem with this is that many parents either can't or won't take that responsibility so the state needs to ensure no child is left behind in this regard.

SusieBlue · 07-03-2019 4:36pm

SoundsRight wrote: »

I'd stick to the basics, if parents want to teach kids about LGBT stuff they can do that in their own time.

And in doing that you'd be excluding teenagers who may identify as LGBT from receiving sex education which is relevant to their own situation.
That's hardly fair.

Guy:Incognito · 07-03-2019 4:38pm

Dont be telling the kids about the sex. They'll only start riding each other.

4068ac1elhodqr · 07-03-2019 4:48pm

Guess some folks will say it's a fine line between exploring the LGBT education stuff in terms of education for promoting equality and fairness,
and on the other hand making it appear as cool, fun or trendy (promotion) to young (4-11) type developing minds.

If in doubt, some schools such as this one over in Birmingham will just close the gates, at any whiff of discussing it regardless of intent, or see 80% of it's pupils withdrawn by their parents.

Dravokivich · 07-03-2019 4:49pm

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

Why? Even if you just teach it as dry facts, LGBT stuff is part of the picture. Why avoid topics? Why not teach the facts and just avoid the judgmental side?

What has sexuality got to do with it? Sex education is just 2 things, how pregnancy happens, along with possible means to reduce it and what STDs are, along with possible means to prevent them.

All the stuff about LGBT+ can be handled either in Civics (from a rights perspective) or SPHE (from a social recognition/respect perspective).

Your Face · 07-03-2019 4:52pm

My class in school were taught sex education at about 11-12 yrs old.
It was a day long and it was detailed and covered a lot.
It was also delivered in a mature manner.

That's how I hope it's still taught.

meeeeh · 07-03-2019 4:57pm

Dravokivich wrote: »

What has sexuality got to do with it? Sex education is just 2 things, how pregnancy happens, along with possible means to reduce it and what STDs are, along with possible means to prevent them.

All the stuff about LGBT+ can be handled either in Civics (from a rights perspective) or SPHE (from a social recognition/respect perspective).

Sex education is not just about mehanics of making a baby. One of the main things l remember from our sex education was to encourage to first just to stick to foreplay, how not to be pressurised into sex. Kids will explore their sexuality but navigating emotional part of it is just as important as mehanics and telling them to use condoms.

Dravokivich · 07-03-2019 5:02pm

meeeeh wrote: »

Sex education is not just about mehanics of making a baby. One of the main things l remember from our sex education was to encourage to first just to stick to foreplay, how not to be pressurised into sex. Kids will explore their sexuality but navigating emotional part of it is just as important as mehanics and telling them to use condoms.

I said it's about 2 things... and you only read 1...

meeeeh · 07-03-2019 5:04pm

Dravokivich wrote: »

I said it's about 2 things... and you only read 1...

I read it. I don't know why you need six different subjects to cover one item.

tayto lover · 07-03-2019 5:25pm

Deebles McBeebles wrote: »

That priest was sacked soon after though.

Nancy knew her stuff.

Grayson · 07-03-2019 5:35pm

freshpopcorn wrote: »

When I was in secondary school it was very basic in SPHE. Basically wear a condom to help prevent pregnancy/STD's/etc.
We also had sex education at the end of primary school.
They could have of course went into more detail but I felt most people got the message.
I do think they could of course up date the SPHE course more or bring in outsiders to discuss the matter.(Consent classes could also be done).
I heard somebody saying that the should be more discussion of sexual positions/etc but it that may be a bit over the top.

How do you think sex education should be taught in schools?

in 93 when I left school we were told that wearing condoms would result in you going to hell.

Although to be fair you had to head up to dublin to the family planning stall in the virgin megastore to get condoms back then.

Chancer3001 · 07-03-2019 5:40pm

Science class should deal with mechanics.

Cspe class with the laws and consent

Sphe with equality for lgbt and peer pressure and emotions around sex.

99% should come from home tho

Grayson · 07-03-2019 5:57pm

Chancer3001 wrote: »

Science class should deal with mechanics.

Cspe class with the laws and consent

Sphe with equality for lgbt and peer pressure and emotions around sex.

99% should come from home tho

I don't see why. Most parents never had formal sex and relationship education. The fact that they managed to reproduce hardly qualifies them to teach their kids about it.

besides, no-one likes hearing their parents talk about sex.

Edgware · 07-03-2019 6:21pm

There are some very informative DVDs available which would help. They usually involve plumbers, young Stepmoms helping Stepson while Dad is away etc

One eyed Jack · 07-03-2019 6:36pm

freshpopcorn wrote: »

How do you think sex education should be taught in schools?

It’s taught already as building on the knowledge that the child’s parents have already imparted to them, with their parents consent. That’s how it should be imparted - parents impart their values on their own children and the school reinforces those values.

Princess Consuela Bananahammock wrote: »

I don't think I'd trust a lot parents to teach about homosexuality to be honest. Especially not the conservative ones.

And you’d be absolutely right not to trust a lot of parents to teach their children about homosexuality. The question I’d have though is why you imagine parents need to teach their own children (who are more likely to be straight than gay) about something which the parents themselves are unlikely to have much knowledge of, let alone consider that their straight children require such knowledge to prepare them for their adulthood?

Conservative or liberal really doesn’t make any difference in my experience, children are generally fairly handy at figuring out their shìt in their own time in their own way at their own pace.

Chancer3001 · 07-03-2019 6:36pm

Grayson wrote: »

I don't see why. Most parents never had formal sex and relationship education. The fact that they managed to reproduce hardly qualifies them to teach their kids about it.

besides, no-one likes hearing their parents talk about sex.

Because its part of rearing your kid for the world of adulthood.
Teachers havent had expert education on the topic either. Cspe and sphe are just thrown on their timetable.

One eyed Jack · 07-03-2019 6:42pm

Grayson wrote: »

I don't see why. Most parents never had formal sex and relationship education. The fact that they managed to reproduce hardly qualifies them to teach their kids about it.

besides, no-one likes hearing their parents talk about sex.

It’s not a matter of whether or not the children’s parents have reproduced* that qualifies them to impart their values regarding relationships, sex and sexuality on their children. It’s the fact that they are their children’s parents.

*worth noting that some parents have never reproduced with each other yet are legally their children’s parents.

Church on Tuesday · 07-03-2019 6:43pm

Our science teacher, who was psychopath, promptly ignored the reproduction system in humans to the next chapter over.

We were disappointed to say the least, had been looking forward to it for the previous two weeks.

It was, of course, a catholic school. The most catholic school that ever catholic.

TheValeyard · 07-03-2019 8:25pm

Chancer3001 wrote: »

Science class should deal with mechanics.

Cspe class with the laws and consent

Sphe with equality for lgbt and peer pressure and emotions around sex.

99% should come from home tho

Nearly all of that is covered in 1st year SPHE. They look at puberty all the bits n bobs, stages of development, pregnancy, gender, sexual orientation, consent, sexual maturity.

In second year its covered again, but more in-depth and deeper details of STDs.

Same with 3rd year and again in 5th year.

KevinCavan · 07-03-2019 8:27pm

I found it was an anti-climax to be honest.

KevinCavan · 07-03-2019 8:29pm

orourkeda1977 wrote: »

Most kids could probably teach the teachers a thing or two about the aul ridin'

Said the aforementioned priest that was sacked/emptied his sack.

_Brian · 07-03-2019 8:29pm

https://youtu.be/7lRGIkLEYoA

Makes me think of this clip.

Chancer3001 · 07-03-2019 8:53pm

Imo we give too much inportance to sex ed and not enough to "dont be a dick" ed

Mister Vain · 07-03-2019 10:00pm

My sex education consisted of a video depicting penises for 20 minutes, and then it showed a picture of a vagina for a split second and it was over. I felt so cheated.

Mad_maxx · 07-03-2019 11:14pm

SoundsRight wrote: »

I'd stick to the basics, if parents want to teach kids about LGBT stuff they can do that in their own time.

The attempts to politicise sex education in schools is worrying

Feminist politics is embedded deeply in the planned new coriculum

Princess Consuela Bananahammock · 07-03-2019 11:33pm

One eyed Jack wrote: »

And you’d be absolutely right not to trust a lot of parents to teach their children about homosexuality. The question I’d have though is why you imagine parents need to teach their own children (who are more likely to be straight than gay) about something which the parents themselves are unlikely to have much knowledge of, let alone consider that their straight children require such knowledge to prepare them for their adulthood?

I wouldn't. Which is why I was saying it should be part of a school sex-ed syllabus. Also, it's not just them being gay, it's about people they know or friends being gay and acceptance of being gay.

Conservative or liberal really doesn’t make any difference in my experience, children are generally fairly handy at figuring out their shìt in their own time in their own way at their own pace.

Not sure I agree with you here. I mean, I accept they'll find out, but with what degree of accuracy? And respect?

If we go down the road of assuming kids will just pick it up as they go along, they the whole idea of sex-education becomes moot. And if it's anything like the crowd that I learnt with, homohobia will be ramapant.

meeeeh · 08-03-2019 12:04am

We had sex ed when we were about 12. Before that when we were 8 two of my friends got couple of porn movies that were circling among older brother's friends. They informed us about sperm and how woman drinks something that looks like champagne. And later she also has sex with a horse.

That was 30 years ago when porn wasn't a click away. I don't plan family seminars on the subject but 'they'll just pick the stuff up' attitude isn't the best either.

One eyed Jack · 08-03-2019 11:01am

Princess Consuela Bananahammock wrote: »

I wouldn't. Which is why I was saying it should be part of a school sex-ed syllabus. Also, it's not just them being gay, it's about people they know or friends being gay and acceptance of being gay.

Not sure I agree with you here. I mean, I accept they'll find out, but with what degree of accuracy? And respect?

If we go down the road of assuming kids will just pick it up as they go along, they the whole idea of sex-education becomes moot. And if it's anything like the crowd that I learnt with, homohobia will be ramapant.

I’d be interested in how you would plan to impart values such as respect and consent while having no respect for the parents values and trying to impart your values on their children, without their consent. I can’t even wrap my head around that one - teaching children about respect for other people and consent, with no regard to showing respect for their parents or obtaining their consent to have their children participate in sex education classes which are by their values, fundamentally inaccurate.

The whole idea of sex education in schools is moot because even as adults, people will gravitate towards that which just makes sense to them, and what just makes sense to them will be influenced by an infinite amount of... influences! Such as their peer groups, their level of exposure to social media and online information, etc. And it is their parents who will control their exposure to these experiences for the most part, and it is their parents who will be their greatest influence in their lives as children at that stage of their lives.

So, while I completely get where you’re coming from with the idea that if only children were educated in all aspects of sex and sexuality to encourage them to accept all aspects of sex and sexuality (which I take it will be accurate by your definition), then homophobia and all the issues that are associated with their parents being socially conservative homophobes (I get what you mean that homophobia is just one example of an issue for you) will be worked out of children over time, in spite of the greater influence of their parents in their lives.

Can you see where the fundamental stumbling block is to your proposals now? That’s exactly the fundamental stumbling block will be faced by advocates of sex education reform in Irish schools - they cannot impart their ideology to children in schools without those children’s parents consent.

Princess Consuela Bananahammock · 08-03-2019 11:36am

One eyed Jack wrote: »

I’d be interested in how you would plan to impart values such as respect and consent while having no respect for the parents values and trying to impart your values on their children, without their consent. I can’t even wrap my head around that one - teaching children about respect for other people and consent, with no regard to showing respect for their parents or obtaining their consent to have their children participate in sex education classes which are by their values, fundamentally inaccurate.

Umm - the entire education is a set of values imparted on children and parents are consenting to have their children educated by sending them to school. Or are you against all sex-education in the classroom?

What if I didn't consent to have my child subjected to history? Or Irish? Or Shakespeare?

The whole idea of sex education in schools is moot because even as adults, people will gravitate towards that which just makes sense to them, and what just makes sense to them will be influenced by an infinite amount of... influences! Such as their peer groups, their level of exposure to social media and online information, etc. And it is their parents who will control their exposure to these experiences for the most part, and it is their parents who will be their greatest influence in their lives as children at that stage of their lives.

Again - this sounds like your against the idea of ALL sex education in school, on the basis that they'll pick it up anyway.

So, while I completely get where you’re coming from with the idea that if only children were educated in all aspects of sex and sexuality to encourage them to accept all aspects of sex and sexuality (which I take it will be accurate by your definition), then homophobia and all the issues that are associated with their parents being socially conservative homophobes (I get what you mean that homophobia is just one example of an issue for you) will be worked out of children over time, in spite of the greater influence of their parents in their lives.

My experience was that homophobia came more from peers than parents, but the parents were either ignorant to it or ignorant to how to confront it.

Furthermore, my aspect was that knowledge of different relationships as well as sex, rather than just sex and sexuality.

Can you see where the fundamental stumbling block is to your proposals now? That’s exactly the fundamental stumbling block will be faced by advocates of sex education reform in Irish schools - they cannot impart their ideology to children in schools without those children’s parents consent.

There's no ideology.

None of this is a secret. Parents know (or should know) that's on the syallabus before they consent to the education their kids. If they don't consent then homeschooling is the next option and it's perfectly legal.

suicide_circus · 08-03-2019 11:44am

condoms are awful yokes

branie2 · 08-03-2019 11:45am

A nun gave a talk to us about it in my school many years ago

One eyed Jack · 08-03-2019 12:10pm

Princess Consuela Bananahammock wrote: »

Umm - the entire education is a set of values imparted on children and parents are consenting to have their children educated by sending them to school. Or are you against all sex-education in the classroom?

I’m not at all against sex education in the classroom. I’m fully supportive of sex education in the classroom which is supportive of what the children have already learned or will learn from their parents.

This sounds like your against the idea of ALL sex education in school.

Not at all, it’s pointing out that regardless of the content of the sex education curriculum which children are exposed to in schools, they will still form their own ideas and values regarding relationships, sex and sexuality which will be influenced by that which makes sense to them already. If something doesn’t make sense to them, or they can’t relate to it, then just like adults - they will simply reject it.

My experience was that homophobia came more from peers than parents, but the parents were either ignorant to it or ignorant to how to confront it.

Furthermore, my aspect was that knowledge of different relationships as well as sex, rather than just sex and sexuality.

Then the issue for you appears to be the challenge of educating parents, as opposed to hoping those parents will permit their children to be weaponised against those parents values which those parents hope to instil in their own children.

There's no ideology.

None of this is a secret. Parents know (or should know) that's on the syallabus before they educate their kids. If they wish to homeschool, that's their option.

But that’s exactly what it is! You want to promote your ideology in Irish schools in the hope of influencing children whose parents ideology is not consistent with your ideology. Parents don’t need to consider homeschooling when the school they send their children to already builds upon what their children have learned from their parents according to those parents values which are influenced by an ideology which is inconsistent or incompatible with your ideology.

It’s also no secret that our Constitution recognises parents as the fundamental educators of their own children -

The State acknowledges that the primary and natural educator of the child is the Family and guarantees to respect the inalienable right and duty of parents to provide, according to their means, for the religious and moral, intellectual, physical and social education of their children.
...

The State recognises the Family as the natural primary and fundamental unit group of Society, and as a moral institution possessing inalienable and imprescriptible rights, antecedent and superior to all positive law.

The State, therefore, guarantees to protect the Family in its constitution and authority, as the necessary basis of social order and as indispensable to the welfare of the Nation and the State.

Your ideology is an ideology, in spite of claims to the contrary, which are based upon the reality that other people’s values which they hope to impart to their own children, are incompatible with your own. You’re not alone at least in attempting to overcome the conundrum of imparting your own values about consent by attempting an end-run around parents -

Provision of Objective Sex Education Bill 2018

Hotblack Desiato · 08-03-2019 12:21pm

freshpopcorn wrote: »

When I was in secondary school it was very basic in SPHE. Basically wear a condom to help prevent pregnancy/STD's/etc.

The only time condoms were ever mentioned by a teacher in my school was a ten-minute spittle-flecked rant about the evils of johnnies from the vice principal one morning at the start of English class, for no apparent reason whatsoever. We just rolled our eyes, watched him get redder and redder in the face, and said nothing.

As for bringing in outside bodies to do this, this needs to be regulated. There are all sorts of religious loons like Pure In Heart out there who take advantage of teachers' laziness/embarrassment to put their crazy ideas out there.

Believe it or not, our local CofI primary school will shortly be getting in the official catholic church crowd to do it :rolleyes:

Deebles McBeebles wrote: »

It was always a parents responsibility and should largely remain so.

Problem with that is that many/most parents will do nothing, and some will fill their kids heads with crazy stuff - which is their right, but the kids should be getting the facts from the school too. It's far too important to leave it only up to parents.

I mean, if their parents were flat earthers would we consider it wrong to teach the fact that the earth is round in school?

SoundsRight wrote: »

I'd stick to the basics, if parents want to teach kids about LGBT stuff they can do that in their own time.

Yeah it's not like there will be LGBT kids in every school who need to know that they're not crazy and not the only ones in the world who feel like that :rolleyes: with this sort of pig-ignorant attitude it's no wonder so many LGBT kids self-harm

Hotblack Desiato · 08-03-2019 12:26pm

One eyed Jack wrote: »

Your ideology is an ideology, in spite of claims to the contrary, which are based upon the reality that other people’s values which they hope to impart to their own children, are incompatible with your own. You’re not alone at least in attempting to overcome the conundrum of imparting your own values about consent by attempting an end-run around parents -

Provision of Objective Sex Education Bill 2018

There's nothing there about parents, did you read it?

That bill is about curtailing the ability of church-run schools to prevent their pupils from receiving objective sex education. All education should be as objective as possible, yet in this country it is somehow considered normal that almost all state funded schools push a religious agenda.

And... you don't need to bother with the "But they chose to send their kids to a catholic school" line. (a) heard it all so many times before (b) most parents don't have a realistic choice of school patronage, and it is crazy financially and extremely divisive socially to expect that every parent could actually pick and choose what form of school patronage they desire.

Sex education in schools!

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