The Healy Raes

Yellow_Fern · 27-04-2021 4:48pm

Why dont we allow farms to profit from carbon storage ? Why does the gov own it? Seems like theft

Rows Grower · 27-04-2021 4:57pm

mr potato head wrote: »

The tone of your questions are exactly the type of deflective, intentionally divisive, obtuse and tribal tone I was accusing the HRs of. It's a valid question veiled in a tone of mockery and leaves no space for a constructive robust discussion as it assumes absolutes in a world of grey.

Like everything, there is a balance of environmental and societal damage. We are in a transition to reduce one as fast as we can and minimise the impact on the other. One thing is clear, the status quo can not be maintained in many industries and societal practices.
There is no way that I could go to an engineering firm tomorrow, that had the same impact as farming, and have it be acceptable for them to carry on regardless or only offer a 10% CO2 reduction.

I don't want to destroy the livelihoods of farmers, my grandfather was a tillage farmer and another uncle a dairy farmer, I spent many summers doing everything from milking and harvesting to clearing around saplings. I have close friends and relatives still farming, one is elderly, lives in a stone house heated by an AGA running solid fuel and relies on farm income and I have no wish to see him suffer.

No one is asking to ban all farming, we need food after all. But farming practices along with the balance of meat and plants we eat need to be addressed, there is overwhelming evidence that we can supply food in a less damaging way.
If farmers don't come to the table with solutions they will have them forced on them through taxation and other policy changes just like the auto industry, manufacturing, power generation etc.

We have to address other impacts too:
Monocultures

Effluent Runoff

Forestry Clearing and Scrub Burning

Meat/Dairy Production CO2 and Methane Production

Destruction of Hedgerows

Killing of Raptors

Antibiotic resistance through poor dosing practices

Inhumain treatment and housing of animals

The vast majority of farmers are hard-working and conscientious, but the community often shields those who are responsible for damage and bad practice and has been resistant to change or acknowledgement of its impacts for a long time.
It needs to be give as well as take, in return we need to pay farmers a fair price for their goods, reward innovation and support transition.

Likewise, with cats and dogs, there is a balance to be found. Cats and dogs can provide social, physical and mental health benefits so I wouldn't advocate for a ban, I wouldn't have an issue with taxing their CO2/Environmental footprint.
You could argue that since cats killed more birds than all other human-related causes combined in 2016/2017. So there's a stronger case for banning them, a more logical step for the moment is for owners to put a bell on them!

You must appreciate not everyone likes the long winded style you yourself personally prefer.

You were asked a simple question about a topic you have given the impression you are greatly concerned about and well versed on.

mr potato head · 27-04-2021 5:06pm

Yellow_Fern wrote: »

Why dont we allow farms to profit from carbon storage ? Why does the gov own it? Seems like theft

I think it's coming, it was in the EU "Farm to Fork Strategy" that was published last year.

SeanW · 27-04-2021 5:18pm

Thelonious Monk wrote: »

I think there are a couple of billion dogs on the planet yes, they are a problem, as they have to be fed meat, and now they have superstores full of plastic devoted to them.
And there are plastic bags full of sh*te everywhere.
Just one of the many things we'd need to look at if we are to take living sustainably seriously although I can't see curtailing dog ownership ever gaining traction.

https://www.huffpost.com/entry/dogs-environment-cats-pets-food-meat_n_5be94743e4b0e84388999f40

I just love the blatant hypocrisy of stuff like this.

It's seemingly perfectly fine for so-called "environmentalists" to cause dozens, if not hundreds of gigatons of needless CO2 emissions with their asinine energy policies, like opposing technologies that avoid dozens of gigatons of CO2 emissions, or drive eagles and bats to extinction by carpet bombing the planet with windmills. It's OK for so-called "environmentalists" to cause ecological destruction on a scale unprecedented in human history, but we have to euthanise Fido and Fluffy because they eat meat or something.

You are probably right about one thing though, given how many people regard their pets as either part of their family, or at least a very positive aspect of their lives, there isn't likely to be much support for restricting the ownership of cats or dogs. Quite the opposite, I'd exepct.

Thelonious Monk · 27-04-2021 5:28pm

SeanW wrote: »

I just love the blatant hypocrisy of stuff like this.

It's seemingly perfectly fine for so-called "environmentalists" to cause dozens, if not hundreds of gigatons of needless CO2 emissions with their asinine energy policies, like opposing technologies that avoid dozens of gigatons of CO2 emissions, or drive eagles and bats to extinction by carpet bombing the planet with windmills. It's OK for so-called "environmentalists" to cause ecological destruction on a scale unprecedented in human history, but we have to euthanise Fido and Fluffy because they eat meat or something.

You are probably right about one thing though, given how many people regard their pets as either part of their family, or at least a very positive aspect of their lives, there isn't likely to be much support for restricting the ownership of cats or dogs. Quite the opposite, I'd exepct.

Can you point out the hypocrisy? I didn't realise I was pushing for energy technologies or killing bats and eagles.

SeanW · 27-04-2021 5:30pm

I'm assuming you support the mainstream environmentalist policy of promoting renewable energy, like windmills. And opposing the use of other near-zero CO2 energy technologies.

Thelonious Monk · 27-04-2021 5:31pm

SeanW wrote: »

I'm assuming you support the mainstream environmentalist policy of promoting renewable energy, like windmills.

Assume away. Biggest threat to wildlife in recent days is Killarney national park going on fire, hen harrier nests were destroyed among lots of other wildlife.

SeanW · 27-04-2021 5:32pm

I'll happily stand corrected if I am wrong.

mr potato head · 27-04-2021 5:35pm

Rows Grower wrote: »

You must appreciate not everyone likes the long winded style you yourself personally prefer.

You were asked a simple question about a topic you have given the impression you are greatly concerned about and well versed on.

Apologies, my waffling style is a career hazard, as is a love of data!

Rows Grower · 27-04-2021 5:35pm

Thelonious Monk wrote: »

Assume away. Biggest threat to wildlife in recent days is Killarney national park going on fire, hen harrier nests were destroyed among lots of other wildlife.

Could they build another nest?

Thelonious Monk · 27-04-2021 5:47pm

Rows Grower wrote: »

Could they build another nest?

No likely they'll keep destroying the countryside

Rows Grower · 27-04-2021 5:55pm

Thelonious Monk wrote: »

No likely they'll keep destroying the countryside

Who will keep destroying the countryside?

lalababa · 27-04-2021 6:01pm

Changing Agri in Ireland from animal(cow) dominance to a bit of everything -forestry/natural habitat, cereals, veg, bio fuels and whatever you're having yourself would be easy enough. Beef farmers have been operating at cost for a long time now.
Farmers won't mind that much.. just edge them a little in the right direction. One of the best returns on wet/marginal ground ATM is forestry.
Also an good organic/extensive package aimed at Dairy/beef would cut numbers.
TBH most farmers wouldn't care asking as they get a few bob.

SlowBlowin · 27-04-2021 6:05pm

Thelonious Monk wrote: »

I don't eat beef or dairy, which is what nearly all our land is used for, and 90% of that is exported.
So why should food not eaten here be divided among everyone?

You dont eat imported stuff like rice, soya, and all that co2 overhead it carries do you - just spuds ?

Thelonious Monk · 27-04-2021 6:05pm

Rows Grower wrote: »

Who will keep destroying the countryside?

The Green party who set fires and blame it on farmers

Thelonious Monk · 27-04-2021 6:06pm

SlowBlowin wrote: »

You dont eat imported stuff like rice, soya, and all that co2 overhead it carries do you - just spuds ?

Course i do, like everyone else in Ireland. Some things are worse than others though, technically we dont even make bread in Ireland as no flour is produced here.

SlowBlowin · 27-04-2021 6:07pm

Thelonious Monk wrote: »

Course i do, like everyone else in Ireland.

Cottage pie for me tonight.

Rows Grower · 27-04-2021 6:07pm

Thelonious Monk wrote: »

The Green party who set fires and blame it on farmers

You're making no sense in your attempts to be sarcastic.

Graces7 · 27-04-2021 6:47pm

Banana Republic 1 wrote: »

Danny Healy Rae is stone cold ignorant!

or pretends to be for effect... and does it very well

Graces7 · 27-04-2021 6:56pm

John_Rambo wrote: »

I take it this is proving harder than you thought. When you "do the math" you realise that if everyone in cities upped sticks, ditched the DART, ditched the LUAS, ditched the buses and bikes, got themselves a one off house with an ICE car per person, drove to school, work, shops, college etc... you realise the country has turned in to one massive spread out housing estate that's impossible to service, difficult to heat and police, clogged with ICE cars and is very environmentally damaging.

Sometimes the big smoke is actually better than millions of little smokes. That's leaving aside the cultural epicentres of the country which are the cites and the advantages they bring to the country.

Strongly disagree with this. That idea of " culture" is only one idea of culture. And a very limited and over idealised one.

as for " clogged with cars!; cities with "rush hour " traffic jams" all sitting there with engines running and air pollution choking pedestrians

Graces7 · 27-04-2021 7:00pm

TaurenDruid wrote: »

"The truth is out there! WAKE UP, SHEEPLE!" is what this sounds like!

"20 bags of peat can't melt steel beams!" (which is true).

Who in their right mind wants to melt steel beams!

Graces7 · 27-04-2021 7:05pm

TaurenDruid wrote: »

I've already discussed his video, maybe you missed it.

And what's this nonsense about "just going out and buying a pair of shoes emits more carbon than me burning peat for a few weeks". Do you go barefoot yourself, like?

Of course we all go barefoot out here! Or wellies from the local hardware shop..( seriously being housebound I get footwear by mail order. like most other things, using existing delivery services ie An Post.

Graces7 · 27-04-2021 7:08pm

Rows Grower wrote: »

Where are you getting this notion that rural houses need upgrading of insulation and sealing?

I live in a rural area, I can look outside my front door and literally not see another house for miles. If the youngfella ran down the hall he'd probably heat the house for a day or two.

Not everyone outside the city is living in a draughty cold house with a sheepdog sleeping in the bed to keep them warm.

I prefer 4 or 5 cats. Very needful many nights...

Graces7 · 27-04-2021 7:16pm

John_Rambo wrote: »

An apartment dweller in a city walks to the shoe shop, buys shoes and walks home. (Also lives close to a cobbler so the shoes last longer)

A rural dweller drives to the shoe shop or indeed the same shoe shop as above in the city... or gets it delivered by a van.

Which do you think is better for the environment?

So you disapprove of postal deliveries anywhere? Oh dear! My last shoes came by An Post with my ESB bill etc. Using existing essential services is the backbone of energy efficiency .

Do they still have cobblers? I wear wellies most of the time and one pair lasts forever; very energy efficient...

Graces7 · 27-04-2021 7:23pm

John_Rambo wrote: »

Urban dwellers use existing infrastructure. Even new builds are a couple of metres next to electricity, sewerage, wifi etc... Car dependent rural living is bad for the environment, more miles traveled in cars, impossible to serve with public transport, small journeys are in cars, not on foot and take Galway for example, rural people driving in to the city to use the offices, cinemas, restaurants etc... Very bad. We need people to start populating the dying rural towns and villages and support local.

Ah but we do not all have cars out here. Only one of my near neighbours has transport which he kindly lets us share in . And we do have rural buses. I could get to any of three or four nearby towns using existing resources.

Graces7 · 27-04-2021 7:27pm

magicbastarder wrote: »

the only good thing about burning peat is the smell.

Ah peat is lovely! I lived ten years on a small Orkney island and turf as we called it there was my only fuel. A backboiler heated water and radiator. One lorry load lasted me a whole year straight off the bog for £100. It is a clean fuel to handle. And buying it supports my neighbour who cuts it.

Graces7 · 27-04-2021 7:30pm

John_Rambo wrote: »

Except most of the peat heat goes up the chimney.

Solid fuel stove... even when just a hearth and a back boiler it was great heat.

Graces7 · 27-04-2021 7:39pm

SlowBlowin wrote: »

You do sound like Rambo though...

As I said I don't have time to innovate now, and even if I did the majority don't have that skill set. A carry home fuel is needed, I like the biomass briquette suggestion, but its too late now so people are burning coal, imported coal.

The combination of turf and smokeless coal eggs is perfection

Banana Republic 1 · 27-04-2021 11:11pm

Graces7 wrote: »

or pretends to be for effect... and does it very well

I do wonder that sometimes especially when the Healy Raes controll all the construction plant in Kerry. No wonder they call for roads and bridges to be built they hire all the machines to the council and the NTA and the opw.

Rows Grower · 28-04-2021 9:42am

Thelonious Monk wrote: »

The Green party who set fires and blame it on farmers

If you know for a fact it was members of The Green Party who started the fire and who they are you should report it to the Gardaí.

https://www.independent.ie/business/farming/forestry-enviro/environment/blame-game-begins-in-kerry-over-wildfire-40364446.html

https://www.irishexaminer.com/news/munster/arid-40275851.html

TaurenDruid · 28-04-2021 10:19am

Graces7 wrote: »

Who in their right mind wants to melt steel beams!

Do me a favour? Go do a google image search for "tumbleweed". Find an animated one. Look at it for a few minutes.

Or maybe the one of a stick figure standing there while an animated "the point" flies over his head. That'd work too.

John_Rambo · 28-04-2021 12:49pm

Graces7 wrote: »

Strongly disagree with this. That idea of " culture" is only one idea of culture. And a very limited and over idealised one.

Culture is the arts and other manifestations of human intellectual achievement regarded collectively.

A city is a large human settlement. It can be defined as a permanent and densely settled place with administratively defined boundaries whose members work primarily on non-agricultural tasks. Due to the efficiency of transportation and the smaller land consumption, dense cities hold the potential to have a smaller ecological footprint per inhabitant than more sparsely populated areas.

Now, if you're going to tell me the museums, galleries, restaurants, bars, historical buildings, theatres, libraries, cathedrals, venues, festivals and creative food scene doesn't make up the cultural centre of a country you're deluded. Just look at the music acts to come out of Ireland in the last few decades and were they're coming from.

Rows Grower · 28-04-2021 1:10pm

John_Rambo wrote: »

Culture is the arts and other manifestations of human intellectual achievement regarded collectively.

A city is a large human settlement. It can be defined as a permanent and densely settled place with administratively defined boundaries whose members work primarily on non-agricultural tasks. Due to the efficiency of transportation and the smaller land consumption, dense cities hold the potential to have a smaller ecological footprint per inhabitant than more sparsely populated areas.

Now, if you're going to tell me the museums, galleries, restaurants, bars, historical buildings, theatres, libraries, cathedrals, venues, festivals and creative food scene doesn't make up the cultural centre of a country you're deluded. Just look at the music acts to come out of Ireland in the last few decades and were they're coming from.

https://www.facebook.com/rsvpmagazine/videos/who-knew-michael-healy-rae-was-a-three-time-all-ireland-champion-whistler/324324505048948/

SlowBlowin · 28-04-2021 1:36pm

John_Rambo wrote: »

Culture is the arts and other manifestations of human intellectual achievement regarded collectively.

A city is a large human settlement. It can be defined as a permanent and densely settled place with administratively defined boundaries whose members work primarily on non-agricultural tasks. Due to the efficiency of transportation and the smaller land consumption, dense cities hold the potential to have a smaller ecological footprint per inhabitant than more sparsely populated areas.

Now, if you're going to tell me the museums, galleries, restaurants, bars, historical buildings, theatres, libraries, cathedrals, venues, festivals and creative food scene doesn't make up the cultural centre of a country you're deluded. Just look at the music acts to come out of Ireland in the last few decades and were they're coming from.

So you have gone from "urban dwellers are much kinder on the environment than rural dwellers" to "dense cities hold the potential to have a smaller ecological footprint per inhabitant than more sparsely populated areas."

Nicely adjusted.

From all the reading I have done in the last few days it does not matter whether you are in the country or city, its down to the way you lead your life. Most people I know in the country are not wasteful and good to the environment, obviously there are exceptions..

MHR's speech was valid in my eyes, he was calling for planning and solutions as opposed some of the ill thought-out green policies we have recently seen.

Graces7 · 28-04-2021 2:37pm

John_Rambo wrote: »

Culture is the arts and other manifestations of human intellectual achievement regarded collectively.

A city is a large human settlement. It can be defined as a permanent and densely settled place with administratively defined boundaries whose members work primarily on non-agricultural tasks. Due to the efficiency of transportation and the smaller land consumption, dense cities hold the poof aparticulrtential to have a smaller ecological footprint per inhabitant than more sparsely populated areas.

Now, if you're going to tell me the museums, galleries, restaurants, bars, historical buildings, theatres, libraries, cathedrals, venues, festivals and creative food scene doesn't make up the cultural centre of a country you're deluded. Just look at the music acts to come out of Ireland in the last few decades and were they're coming from.

That is one part only of the true meaning of "culture". And so I do deny that all the frills you list are the " cultural centre"; if there is delusion is it not in me.

Another definition of "culture" that is far more vital is. " The ideas, customs and social behaviour of a particular people or society" which of course can include the frills that you like.

And they are frills. Not vital or essential.

What we have out here is true culture.

Graces7 · 28-04-2021 2:39pm

Banana Republic 1 wrote: »

I do wonder that sometimes especially when the Healy Raes controll all the construction plant in Kerry. No wonder they call for roads and bridges to be built they hire all the machines to the council and the NTA and the opw.

Indeed.. But my views are well known on this family.

John_Rambo · 28-04-2021 2:42pm

Rows Grower wrote: »

https://www.facebook.com/rsvpmagazine/videos/who-knew-michael-healy-rae-was-a-three-time-all-ireland-champion-whistler/324324505048948/

See, nobody knew. And, he's ****e.

Look at U2, The Cranberries, The Dubliners, Them, Stiff Little Fingers, Thin Lizzy, The Horslips, The Undertones, The Chieftains, The Boomtown Rats... All formed in cities.

sebdavis · 28-04-2021 2:48pm

What the Healy Rae hate
Not building roads: because they are the ones building the roads
Not drinking pints: well one of them owns a pub and needs the cash, especially when he can hide it from the tax man
Driving alcohol limits: sure who cares about a few dead people when they can shove a few extra pints in and send them off in the car
Electric cars: sure that would stop the locals filling up with diesel/petrol at the Healy Rae garage
Changes to house rentals: sure they are the biggest landlords knocking around
Anything than is environmental friendly: well every business they have is not environmentally friendly

We can continue but you will notice a common theme here. Anything that doesn't line the Healy Rae pockets is bad and should be stopped. The local lap it up. Let them off.

John_Rambo · 28-04-2021 2:50pm

Graces7 wrote: »

And they are frills. Not vital or essential.

The arts may not be essential to you, but to others, the written and spoken word, architecture, music, visual arts and collaborations are what makes people happy. And they are loved throughout the world.

Graces7 wrote: »

What we have out here is true culture.

Agriculture is a true culture, there's no doubt about that. There's also subcultures, music, the arts on your island.. what you'd consider the "frills" but you obviously don't have an interest in these.

Graces7 · 28-04-2021 2:57pm

What neither "side here says is that it is for each of us to choose and decide how we live and what is right and of value to each of us with our individual values etc.

I choose to live deep rural. actually offshore, for many reasons. I have no car, use almost no electricity, little fuel, grow as much of my own food as I can. Would be happy offgrid but it is not feasible with other needs .

Heating is minimal; being a pensioner is a great aid to simplicity, No TV.

With a high level university education I value what we call culture. Not in luxuries , costly venues or with posh expensive food. Not in cities. Which are loud, smelly places! And for the well to do . Cathedrals that are show places, not Houses of Prayer.

Literature accessible to all. Everywhere.

But out here in these simple, beautiful surroundings. A love of creation and a deep respect for it and for the folk around me. There is no value in fine buildings which will become monuments only.

Oh I love monuments too; telling of past ages. The settlement at Riesk. All the ancient abbeys and priories; that were lived in centuries ago. Ross Errilly.

And caring for the environment is part of this. As we are so near to the heart of it

This is culture as it has been here for centuries.

Graces7 · 28-04-2021 2:59pm

John_Rambo wrote: »

See, nobody knew. And, he's ****e.

Look at U2, The Cranberries, The Dubliners, Them, Stiff Little Fingers, Thin Lizzy, The Horslips, The Undertones, The Chieftains, The Boomtown Rats... All formed in cities.

Never heard of them! Thankfully. Sound gross

Tell you what; you keep em and I will enjoy ocean melodies.

Graces7 · 28-04-2021 3:03pm

John_Rambo wrote: »

The arts may not be essential to you, but to others, the written and spoken word, architecture, music, visual arts and collaborations are what makes people happy. And they are loved throughout the world.

Agriculture is a true culture, there's no doubt about that. There's also subcultures, music, the arts on your island.. what you'd consider the "frills" but you obviously don't have an interest in these.

lol... We have no artificial arts out here

And I have said that each to their own so why are you going on and on insisting that all like and value the same things?

If that is for you then fine. But here you are again! Mithering! lol … We are not clones.

Graces7 · 28-04-2021 3:08pm

sebdavis wrote: »

What the Healy Rae hate
Not building roads: because they are the ones building the roads
Not drinking pints: well one of them owns a pub and needs the cash, especially when he can hide it from the tax man
Driving alcohol limits: sure who cares about a few dead people when they can shove a few extra pints in and send them off in the car
Electric cars: sure that would stop the locals filling up with diesel/petrol at the Healy Rae garage
Changes to house rentals: sure they are the biggest landlords knocking around
Anything than is environmental friendly: well every business they have is not environmentally friendly

We can continue but you will notice a common theme here. Anything that doesn't line the Healy Rae pockets is bad and should be stopped. The local lap it up. Let them off.

Many of the locals do not " lap it up" as I learned very swiftly as I was preparing to move to near Kenmare. They are not universally loved. Far from it.

sebdavis · 28-04-2021 3:12pm

Graces7 wrote: »

Many of the locals do not " lap it up" as I learned very swiftly as I was preparing to move to near Kenmare. They are not universally loved. Far from it.

you would be classed as a "blow in", probably not in the category of having one of them at every religious occasion in your life, including your funeral of course :P

Graces7 · 28-04-2021 3:19pm

John_Rambo wrote: »

The arts may not be essential to you, but to others, the written and spoken word, architecture, music, visual arts and collaborations are what makes people happy. And they are loved throughout the world.

Agriculture is a true culture, there's no doubt about that. There's also subcultures, music, the arts on your island.. what you'd consider the "frills" but you obviously don't have an interest in these.

Why do all your posts sound as if you are attacking me!

I think you need to come over here for a while. Please do. It would be a revelation to you. Bring a tent out for a month?

I live here simply as do the local folk. Oh they love Mayo football team; I knitted then all red and green hats to wear at matches.

They work so hard out here.

No music or arts. Winkle picking is very popular...

unless at home like my own occupations,
Knitting, writing, growing,,, caring for rescued cats..

All of which are true culture, relevant to reality. Deeply fulfilling .

Be happy as I am. Very different but that is OK . I do not need to live s you do and vice versa and no need to value the same things.. WHy does that worry you>

Oh let me know which ferry you are coming on... You will need a tent.

Graces7 · 28-04-2021 3:22pm

sebdavis wrote: »

you would be classed as a "blow in", probably not in the category of having one of them at every religious occasion in your life, including your funeral of course :P

lol... The day I moved in MHR arrived at my gate way up atop a mountain. With papers on how to register for voting !

Then he offered me a house.

John_Rambo · 28-04-2021 3:35pm

Graces7 wrote: »

[/B]Why do all your posts sound as if you are attacking me!

Correcting you and your blind ignorance to the arts and culture! Seriously, modern music isn't culture?

I've been & stayed on the island you live on plenty of times under my own steam Graces! No need for the subsidised ferry!

sebdavis · 28-04-2021 3:40pm

Graces7 wrote: »

lol... The day I moved in MHR arrived at my gate way up atop a mountain. With papers on how to register for voting !

Then he offered me a house.

That's why I find it is always best to have a large slurry tank full of pig poo. As soon as he arrives spread it over him and his car. :P He was in your way

TaurenDruid · 28-04-2021 3:42pm

Graces7 wrote: »

lol... The day I moved in MHR arrived at my gate way up atop a mountain. With papers on how to register for voting !

Then he offered me a house.

What, one of his, that he rents out? Sure why wouldn't he - profit for him.

Or do you perhaps mean a council house? In which case, he was offering you something he had no right to, as allocation is done on the basis of need, by council officials. Well. It's supposed to be, but corruption, and buying votes with other people's money...

Hoof Hearted2 · 28-04-2021 3:45pm

Graces7 is gas, she harps on about how wonderful, remote and peaceful rural life is and then spends all her time on d'internet......

The Healy Raes

Comments