Is this manipulation or am I wrong?

Hannibal_Smith · 15-01-2021 10:45am

If you think about it, without thinking of his response for a minute, how did you expect things to work out?

Given all the circumstances as they are, what are the actual practicalities of how you expect it to work out?

I completely get what you're saying and that you thought, given how well you're getting along, he'd wing it and see how things work out rather than calling it a day so suddenly without even trying.

However, maybe he's more practical and can't see how things would work. So rather than it being a form of manipulation, he feels he's being sensible and he's not willing to suffer the hardship of trying to wing it?

zoobizoo · 15-01-2021 11:58am

OP it reads to me like he's in a comfortable position in his life and he had a set of criteria (as we all do - looks, personality, age, outlook etc etc) prior to starting his relationship with you.

You fitted the bill but it's not just your availability that he's after by the sounds of it. He wouldn't travels long distance to meet you if he didn't genuinely like you.

I travelled to Cork from Dublin to date a girl before and also from very south Dublin to very north Dublin also. I ended it with both after a couple of weeks (they were at different times btw) because I just wasn't into them. Had I been into them, the distance wouldn't have mattered to me. I'd have made the effort and vice versa.

I guess if you changed jobs, that's a part of your attraction gone, and he's left in a different position and it is early days in your relationship.

It would be like someone who's about to retire and is looking forward to a lot of free time with their partner to be told "I've decided to go back to work so we're not going to be doing all those things that we had planned to do".

If the 2nd job isn't something you're seriously thinking about then I'd continue as is - as long as he doesn't have any other criteria that you;re not happy with.

Or, if the 2nd job is something that you really really want to do and you see yourself doing it for the foreseeable future and it's for your growth, your financial independence and your happiness, then aim for the job.

blarb · 15-01-2021 12:13pm

Hi OP, it really isn't manipulation from what I'm reading. He is being realistic. Granted, it sounds like he didn't deliver it very delicately, and that was disappointing as it sounds quite cold from your description of it.

I am also struck by the fact that you don't seem that keen on the new job anyway. If you prefer the job you're currently in, then stick with it and continue getting to know this guy and enjoying spending time with him. It does sound like he likes you or he wouldn't be spending so much time with you!

However if you truly do really want the new job, then go for it, it's still early days in relationship and there will be more men I'm sure, you just need to be patient.

Either way, make the best decision for yourself and what will make you happy. 3 months is quite soon to make big life changes based on a relationship, especially if you've been disappointed by his lack of openness to discussion. If the relationship is as lovely as it seems, and you're not too pushed on new job, then stay where you are and enjoy. But have a good think about your job and how you feel about staying in it.

If you lived nearby it would be a different story I'm sure, but that distance would be quite difficult with work and a child to work around if you take new job.

Best of luck, it's a tough one!

strandroad · 15-01-2021 12:31pm

Does the relationship have any future even if OP does not take the job though? I don't think so; the message is clearly "if you don't tick all boxes there's no point".

So any other change to her circumstances that has an impact on his list would trigger the same response. The job is a voluntary choice, but other circumstances like health, budget, family might not be, and he's made it clear that he wouldn't consider sticking around.

Mystery Egg · 15-01-2021 2:13pm

I am baffled by the hard line some posters are taking here.

OP I am very sympathetic to your position and you seem extremely reasonable to me.

In your shoes, I think this would be the end of the relationship for me.

If you love someone, you will make life work around their job schedule. Switching to a 9-5 job is hardly an extreme or outlandish thing to do. People are acting like you've asked something crazy of him but I just can't see what???

He is free most of the time with a business that runs itself.

That's not your position.

I would take the job or not as you see fit.

But I think I would also part ways because relationships built on ultimatums are going to be very shaky from the get go. I think the truth is that he does not love you. If he did, he would be willing to make sacrifices to make things work. But he's comfortable and he likes things as they are. That's understandable. But personally I would want a more flexible and supportive partner.

My partner wanted to do a PhD in another country. This meant I had to give up a job I loved and work in an area I hated on a low wage to support us while he studied. I did it in a heartbeat, and I'm 100% certain he'd do the same for me.

I don't think you've got someone who would go the extra mile for you. Maybe you can accept that, but I don't think I could.

Good luck with whatever you decide!

YellowLead · 15-01-2021 2:48pm

Mystery Egg - I don’t think they were at the I love you stage, after only 3 months - though OP can correct me if I’m wrong.

You might not have been so quick to follow your partner to another country if you had a teenager settled in school here. OPs guy has a kid and that can’t be undone so certian things have to suit.

Bottom line is it’s not worth the effort for him for a lady he had just met to go rearranging his life. I don’t think you can expect this kind of commitment after only 3 months!

Mystery Egg · 15-01-2021 2:49pm

YellowLead wrote: »

Mystery Egg - I don’t think they were at the I love you stage, after only 3 months - though OP can correct me if I’m wrong.

You might not have been so quick to follow your partner to another country if you had a teenager settled in school here. OPs guy has a kid and that can’t be undone so certian things have to suit.

Bottom line is it’s not worth the effort for him for a lady he had just met to go rearranging his life. I don’t think you can expect this kind of commitment after only 3 months!

She hasn't asked him to do anything.

YellowLead · 15-01-2021 2:53pm

Mystery Egg wrote: »

She hasn't asked him to do anything.

I didn’t say she had

but clearly it’s expected or OP would not have started this thread.

Mystery Egg · 15-01-2021 3:00pm

YellowLead wrote: »

I didn’t say she had but clearly it’s expected or OP would not have started this thread.

Sorry but I just don't buy the idea that a change in when they can see each other is asking him to rearrange his life. I can't see where she's asking that of him.

From what I can see she expected a discussion on how the changes would impact them and what they could do to mitigate the changes and instead she got flatly told if you take this job we're over. He's entitled to say that but I cannot for the life of me see anything she's done wrong.

YellowLead · 15-01-2021 3:05pm

Mystery Egg wrote: »

Sorry but I just don't buy the idea that a change in when they can see each other is asking him to rearrange his life. I can't see where she's asking that of him.

From what I can see she expected a discussion on how the changes would impact them and what they could do to mitigate the changes and instead she got flatly told if you take this job we're over. He's entitled to say that but I cannot for the life of me see anything she's done wrong.

I don’t think anyone is saying she has done anything wrong. She asked is he being manipulative and we are just saying no he is not. Nobody is wrong in this scenario - being able to spend time with a partner is important to this guy (is it would be to most) and therefore the relationship is untenable. He knows he isn’t going to change his custody arrangements and he knows what 9 to 5 would mean, I dont see what there is to work out. That’s all. OP has done nothing wrong at all - except to consider the guy manipulative.

Mystery Egg · 15-01-2021 3:10pm

Well he sounds controlling to me. It's not manipulative to clearly state your needs as this guy has done. But he hasn't said, "You know honestly I think it would be very hard for us to survive if your job changes that much. We'll hardly see each other."

He's said, "If you take this job we're over."

Big difference.

I can understand 100% why she feels manipulated. She's been given a totally unexpected ultimatum. Sure, he's entitled to do that. But relationships aren't built on entitlement. They're built on compatibility AND sacrifice and compromise.

YellowLead · 15-01-2021 3:19pm

Mystery Egg wrote: »

I can understand 100% why she feels manipulated. She's been given a totally unexpected ultimatum. Sure, he's entitled to do that. But relationships aren't built on entitlement. They're built on compatibility AND sacrifice and compromise.

That’s the point though. They haven’t been together 3 years for example. I wouldn’t call it a relationship after 3 months - did they even have that conversation - you are my partner and I love you etc???.

I think it’s a fair call for somebody to cut something off before it turns into a relationship when they know they will barely get to see the other person. Nobody I know would get involved with somebody they could only see sparingly and I certainly wouldn’t. It’s not her fault and it’s not his fault, it’s circumstantial.

The long distance only works because of her current set up with work. Usually people only tolerate long distance if they are already entangled and one HAS to move for work etc and it’s only short term.

Yes, it shows he doesn’t love her - but why would anyone expect love/commitment so soon, and call out somebody as being manipulative because they didn’t see a future? I’m sure even OP even regrets the word manipulative at this stage.

Mystery Egg · 15-01-2021 3:28pm

I would have said spending 4-5 days a week together for 14 weeks was laying the foundation for something serious. Anyway I've made my point now. I wish the OP well

osarusan · 15-01-2021 8:40pm

When a person has such rigid criteria which they apply without exception, everybody will eventually fall foul of them somewhere along the line.

If it hadn't been this, it would have been something else.

It was only 3 months, but you've described it as the happiest time in your life, and he seems to have been very involved too. Given that, it's natural to expect that he would at least be open to mulling over how the relationship would work with your new schedule. The flat out, inflexible negative response is understandbly a shock.

YellowLead · 15-01-2021 9:22pm

The only way OP and her guy can see each other is if he changes his child custody agreement - because they live at opposite ends of the country and he sees his child at weekends. OP you would only be free at weekends should you take the role.

I dont mean to be harsh but I don’t understand the confusion.

I have a son and for me he comes first before myself or any man. I fail to see how this guy is being a bad person here - he is just being practical. You can’t realistically expect a person you’ve known for 3 months to change their child custody or move for you...and if you don’t expect that then how can you see each other?

I hope you talk it out with him some more and have a deeper conversation about it and maybe you will realise it’s not him, it’s not you, it’s just practicality.

wiggle16 · 15-01-2021 9:42pm

Mod:

That's enough back and forth in the thread please. Please have advice for the OP when you post.

Thanks.

seasidedub · 15-01-2021 11:23pm

Back from a 13 hour shift so only replying now. Thank you to all posters. I will try to respond to some issues:

I was interested in the job because while I love the time off with my current one, it is very physical and I don't know how long I can do it for. The other one would not be physical and might be better moving forward as we will all be working longer into the future. I have not decided, but I am simply not with him long enough to delve deeper into his psyche in terms of why he needs a woman with so much time etc. I mean, average couples with jobs probably see each other mainly on weekends. But we are just not there yet for a really deep discussion

Children are a priority and I would never seek to change arrangements. I just queried as to whether IF his arrangement was different would he still feel the same.

Perhaps "manipulative" was a bad word choice, but it did seem slightly controlling and if we stayed together, would he try to control other things down the line. And, importantly, if my circumstances change, as posters pointed out - money, health etc., would he be gone anyway. It appears I really "suit" his particular needs - right now........

Finally, today he texted to say he would see me soon for 6 days, as I have a long stretch off. However there is a Wednesday in between which is when he has his child. I queried this and he said he would try to arrange a different day to "prioritise" me...... Interesting. Is this subtle control or manipulation, ie. 'look how I prioritize you, so you should do the same".......

Sonic the Shaghog · 15-01-2021 11:50pm

seasidedub wrote: »

I mean, average couples with jobs probably see each other mainly on weekends. But we are just not there yet for a really deep discussion

Except that for the vast vast majority they probably live anywhere from 5 mins to an hour from each other and again wouldn't be driving a 6 hour round trip for one day together

seasidedub wrote: »

Finally, today he texted to say he would see me soon for 6 days, as I have a long stretch off. However there is a Wednesday in between which is when he has his child. I queried this and he said he would try to arrange a different day to "prioritise" me...... Interesting. Is this subtle control or manipulation, ie. 'look how I prioritize you, so you should do the same".......

Or he is just ya know trying to organise a once off change? Jesus you sound so paranoid

While you've been "taking on board" all opinions I'm convinced at this stage you just want to hear you are right and he's in the wrong. It's just constantly going in circles with it being spelt out you taking the job means only 1 day together a week unless he changes his custody agreement, that's it there's no other options. But it's non stop "I haven't asked him to change anything just discuss it...."

It's also plain as day at this stage you are miffed and have a dented ego that he won't change things around to suit your new timetable despite all protests otherwise.

No one is a bad guy here, but theres a reality to this situation that just doesn't seem to be accepted.

I'm out, best of luck with it.

wiggle16 · 15-01-2021 11:55pm

"I am simply not with him long enough to delve deeper into his psyche in terms of why he needs a woman with so much time etc"

Yet you are clearly trying to.

I'm very sorry if that's brash, but I think you're seeing motives where there are none - that does not sound manipulative or controlling to me in the slightest. With respect, you have taken the word "prioritise" and you're drawing an inference from it that, in my view, almost certainly does not exist.

I read your OP and I thought there must be something else at play that was making you think he is being manipulative but I'm kind of seeing the opposite to be honest. You put your cards on the table about being less available if you change jobs. He said that wouldn't suit him and it might be better for yous to split in that case as he knows what he wants, for himself, in a relationship at the moment, and that's fair enough I think.

Him telling you that your change of job would not suit him and it would be better to split is not manipulation. It doesn't bode well for a future with him but it's not manipulative.

I think you've found a man who has been straighforward with you and has a pretty clear and open agenda about what he is looking for and what he's not looking for - that might suggest a lack of commitment on his part but that's also reasonable: it's only been a couple of months, and he has a child who you acknowledge is always going to come first. He's being straightforward about the fact that he does not want to compromise. It's up to you what you do with that.

With the utmost respect, OP, I wonder if you are reading into things because you are smarting still from getting an answer you didn't expect? And now he is, after all, changing his arrangements to "prioritise you" for that week, suggesting that he knows you're off with him at the moment but you've not been overt about what you think.

I think he's been open and honest with you so I think you should do likewise.

seasidedub · 15-01-2021 11:59pm

Sonic the Shaghog wrote: »

Except that for the vast vast majority they probably live anywhere from 5 mins to an hour from each other and again wouldn't be driving a 6 hour round trip for one day together

Or he is just ya know trying to organise a once off change? Jesus you sound so paranoid

While you've been "taking on board" all opinions I'm convinced at this stage you just want to hear you are right and he's in the wrong. It's just constantly going in circles with it being spelt out you taking the job means only 1 day together a week unless he changes his custody agreement, that's it there's no other options. But it's non stop "I haven't asked him to change anything just discuss it...."

It's also plain as day at this stage you are miffed and have a dented ego that he won't change things around to suit your new timetable despite all protests otherwise.

No one is a bad guy here, but theres a reality to this situation that just doesn't seem to be accepted.

I'm out, best of luck with it.

You could be right it could be a one off.

I'm not miffed, or dented, and I'm genuinely grateful for responses - save me a fortune in therapy......

I'm genuinely trying to determine as to whether he's just straightforward and practical or did I by any chance meet someone who might potentially be controlling. Most responders feel he's just straightforward so, I'll that heavily on board.

wiggle16 · 16-01-2021 12:10am

seasidedub wrote: »

I'm genuinely trying to determine as to whether he's just straightforward and practical or did I by any chance meet someone who might potentially be controlling. Most responders feel he's just straightforward so, I'll that heavily on board.

Okay, well let's take that then:

Do you feel guilty or feel bad for him because you don't feel like doing what would suit him best?
And:
Has he said anything overtly to make you feel bad or feel unreasonable for wanting more flexibility in when and what context you see him?

If the answer to either of those questions is "no" then you have no reason to think he might be potentially controlling.

And again I'm sorry if the above comes off snide or brash, it's not intended to be. There is a difference between feeling dismayed because you're realising there may not be a future with him even though it seemed to be going so well, and feeling bad/guilty because you've been made to feel that way by someone who wants you to fall into line with his wishes.

It does not sound like the latter at all.

zoobizoo · 16-01-2021 10:23am

seasidedub wrote: »

why he needs a woman with so much time. I mean, average couples with jobs probably see each other mainly on weekends.

to "prioritise" me...... Interesting. Is this subtle control or manipulation, ie. 'look how I prioritize you, so you should do the same".......

A. He has time off - he wants to spend time with a partner doing things that he and they enjoy.

You're looking at this from an average couple who are working 9-5 Monday to Friday. He doesn't work 9-5. You don't currently work 9-5. You have free time. He wants to spend that time with you.

He knew you weren't working in a Mon-Fri 9-5 when he met you and therefore this suited him.

It would be the same as a retired person meeting another retired person. Then one decides to go back to work and the plans to travel / enjoy pursuits together go out the window.

B. Subtle control or manipulation? Really?!

The man is attempting, from what I can gather from your post, to put you ahead of his child on this occasion. He could be trying to make up for how he made you feel regarding his previous comments. He might be trying to reassure you.

If you're that distrustful of his intentions.....

osarusan · 16-01-2021 10:41am

seasidedub wrote: »

I queried this and he said he would try to arrange a different day to "prioritise" me...... Interesting. Is this subtle control or manipulation, ie. 'look how I prioritize you, so you should do the same".......

I think you are reading way too much into things like this.

seasidedub · 16-01-2021 10:53am

I'm grateful to posters.

Majority feel there's no manipulation or evidence of controlling/potentially controlling behaviour and that he's simply being practical and straightforward in communicating his preferences/needs for any potential relationship (presumably with any woman)

Ultimately, no matter how much I like him - and I love his company- I can't make a decision regarding work on a 15 week thing which might not last anyway. So, I suspect I either will or won't take the job based on what is best for me longer term. No, I didn't like what I heard as an ultimatum - but as posters have pointed out, that was my interpretation of what I heard and may not be accurate.

He's (so far) a truly lovely man and I think I could definitely have loved him. But logistics do come into things, and at early stages I accept that you can't move goalposts. However, in life, situations do change and in longer term partnerships I'd feel people should try to work around things. We're not there yet, so I'll just have to do what I think is best based on the here and now.

Thanks to all who posted.

Antares35 · 16-01-2021 10:55am

Sorry if this has already been asked but in relation to him having custody of his child theweekend, why does this mean he can't see OP? I understand at 15weeks in, this is premature and best to wait until relationship is firmly established before introducing to the child, but do neither of you envisage a shared future where you and the child will at least be a part of each others lives? If he's planning to keep you segregated long term, that would be a red flag for me, and would make me feel like a side thing to be honest.

LilacNails · 16-01-2021 12:34pm

osarusan wrote: »

When a person has such rigid criteria which they apply without exception, everybody will eventually fall foul of them somewhere along the line.

If it hadn't been this, it would have been something else.

It was only 3 months, but you've described it as the happiest time in your life, and he seems to have been very involved too. Given that, it's natural to expect that he would at least be open to mulling over how the relationship would work with your new schedule. The flat out, inflexible negative response is understandbly a shock.

Hi OP IV quoted this post because the 1st paragraph i feel is very true. He really does sound rigid. It's such a pity when something that's feels so good and right, something like this creeps up and fcuks it up. I've been there. So frustrating.

Choose what u want to go for, weather u really what the job or if u would rather stay put where u are. But don't do it for him. It sounds as if your more invested in the relationship than he is, sorry it's hard to hear. You sound like an intelligent person, choose what u deserve, and I think u deserve better than him.

Big Bag of Chips · 16-01-2021 3:57pm

I suppose I can see his point. At this stage of your relationship you'd be starting to make decisions on whether or not it's going to progress and go anywhere. Your proposal is that it takes a step back and you both see an awful lot less of each other.

Even in the hypothetical situation of an access agreement every second weekend you are proposing that seeing each other 3-5 days every week now gets dropped to 3/4 days every month. I can see why he'd be looking for more than that from a relationship.

The reality is he really likes you. Has said as much. But he wants more than a few days a month, and if you are not in a position to offer that type of relationship he will find someone who is. The big factor here is the distance between you. He could meet a woman who works 5 days a week but lives closer to him and he could still see her 5 or 6 evenings a week if that's what they wanted.

I'd imagine he'd be disappointed if your relationship was to end, but I'd also imagine he'd see it as you making your decision and he making his.

Relationships can be lovely and romantic, of course. But they also need to be practical and workable. What you're suggesting isn't workable for him. You're offering a part time relationship. He wants a full time one. In a longer term relationship it would be something to make work if necessary.

seenitall · 16-01-2021 5:19pm

seasidedub wrote: »

Ultimately, no matter how much I like him - and I love his company- I can't make a decision regarding work on a 15 week thing which might not last anyway. So, I suspect I either will or won't take the job based on what is best for me longer term.

I think this is the best attitude to adopt regarding this situation. You should suit yourself (to me, a 13 hour shift, physical job sounds like something to get out of if possible, at a certain age), because your man certainly sounds like he would suit himself in a blink of an eye if it came to it.

Personally, a man making such a remark about the availability of other women to him, after the relationship has shown so much potential for happiness in the early days, would be a big red flag and I can’t see a situation where a pronouncement like that wouldn’t make me become less trusting of him and more doubtful about whether the two of us were trying to get some entirely different things from the relationship. Let’s face it, what it means is: you’re nothing special, missus - I could be with your replacement in the morning. You’d never say something so hurtful to him, would you? So I’d be very careful at how this develops going forward, and that the balance of how ye feel about each other isn’t too skewed towards one side.

strandroad · 16-01-2021 5:24pm

Big Bag of Chips wrote: »

Even in the hypothetical situation of an access agreement every second weekend you are proposing that seeing each other 3-5 days every week now gets dropped to 3/4 days every month. I can see why he'd be looking for more than that from a relationship.

I think that it could easily be more than that. He is completely free during the week so what's stopping him driving up Sunday morning and staying with the OP until Wednesday or Thursday? She's be at work during the day but after Sunday they would still have afternoons and evenings.

The OP should also acknowledge how gracious she is to host him 3 to 5 days a week in a lovely area with amenities. They basically had a part time living arrangement, at her expense. Now when she's trying to make adjustments to maybe future proof her job, she's told he has no flexibility at all.

I don't think he's manipulative or controlling in that he's not trying to change her mind. He's just unwilling to invest in a relationship that is less than 100% his way.

Augme · 16-01-2021 7:33pm

strandroad wrote: »

I think that it could easily be more than that. He is completely free during the week so what's stopping him driving up Sunday morning and staying with the OP until Wednesday or Thursday? She's be at work during the day but after Sunday they would still have afternoons and evenings.

The OP should also acknowledge how gracious she is to host him 3 to 5 days a week in a lovely area with amenities. They basically had a part time living arrangement, at her expense. Now when she's trying to make adjustments to maybe future proof her job, she's told he has no flexibility at all.

I don't think he's manipulative or controlling in that he's not trying to change her mind. He's just unwilling to invest in a relationship that is less than 100% his way.

I can't imagine anyone being happy sitting in their OH house all day long twiddling their thumbs while they patiently wait to spend time with their OH after they decided to switch jobs to suit themselves.

Is this manipulation or am I wrong?

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