"dont give change to beggars please"

chillywilly · 11-12-2008 4:44pm #1

I came out of a newsagents in Rathmines yesterday. Anyone who knows Rathmines will know that theres always one or two homeless people around the Swan centre. I always see one in particular, i rememeber once he held open the door for me, i said thank you and i remember him saying "your welcome". The way he said "your welcome" was kind of an appreciative way of saying "thanks for acknowledging me".

Anyway, he mostly sits outside this newsagents, not doing much. I came out of the newsagents and noticed a sign in the window of the shop where he usually sits. The sign said "dont give change to beggars please".:eek:

I was pretty f*cking annoyed at this sign. To be honest, im no Mother Teresa, sometimes I give money to the homeless, sometimes I dont, but IMO the shop has no right to tell people to give them money or not. Maybe they had their reasons to put it up, but I dont think this was the solution and I found it very offensive.

I wasnt in a very confronational mood, so i didnt go into the shop(feel i should have looking back) so I just took out a marker and scribbled over the sign. The shop assistant clearly saw me do this, but I wasnt too bothered. I know that may seem stupid but it really pissed me off! I then went on my way, and on my way back the sign was gone!:rolleyes:

I wanted to see if people agreed with me, would you done things differently? Or did the shop have every right to put the sign up?

"rant over";)

Thomas_S_Hunterson · 11-12-2008 4:47pm

What shop wants a smelly beggar loitering around outside to be honest? It intimidates customers.

The fact that people are giving them money is encouraging it.

And correct me if I'm wrong but begging is illegal.

chillywilly · 11-12-2008 4:54pm

I personally dont find it intimidating.

If giving change to the homeless encourages others to give some too, then even better!

Im not sure if it is illegal, i know that a new law just came in to stop "aggressive begging". Im not sure how you define that term but the man is definetly not aggresive.

topper75 · 11-12-2008 5:04pm

OP, well done you!

You give money to the beggars, and they buy coffee and sandwiches.

This keeps the coffee and sandwich industry going.

Great. This is how the world should work.

Hey maybe the govt could also take some money from our salaries and redistribute it to the beggars as well?

chillywilly · 11-12-2008 5:10pm

Actually, yes. The government should be putting more money into getting homeless people off the street.

Also, thanks for you smug, sarcastic tone. It made me all warm and fuzzy inside:)

ham_n_mustard · 11-12-2008 5:11pm

they do, thats called income tax

jim o doom · 11-12-2008 5:15pm

Sean_K wrote: »

What shop wants a smelly beggar loitering around outside to be honest? It intimidates customers.

The fact that people are giving them money is encouraging it.

And correct me if I'm wrong but begging is illegal.

Yeah nothing like laws to force those who have been marginalised in society even further to the edge. And intimidating? if your intimidated by someone as pathetic as a beggar, walking to a shop must be a terrifying adventure every time.

topper75 · 11-12-2008 5:17pm

Sean_K wrote: »

And correct me if I'm wrong but begging is illegal.

It's actually legal now.

chillywilly wrote: »

Also, thanks for you smug, sarcastic tone. It made me all warm and fuzzy inside:)

OK apologies - I shouldn't have written in this tone. But I still feel strongly that giving money to beggars is wrong. We already supply welfare payments to people who are in a tough place. The beggars are spending this on heroin and then go begging for more. By giving money you are a/ supporting the drug trade and all the misery that entails b/ encouraging the begging behaviour. This is not India. It is a first world country and people out begging must not be responsible types if they can't make use of generous state support (your money and my money) to get back on their feet.

ITMissy · 11-12-2008 5:18pm

Actually i was in the big smoke for the first time in a long time lately, and the beggers at the Luas pay machine really did Intimidated me, and mumbled something not so nice under his breath when i didnt give him anything.

Davei141 · 11-12-2008 5:20pm

The OP is a sheltered goon, perhaps when the beggar is some junkie trying to intimidate or a gang of roma's grabbing your arm maybe you wont be so quick to keep those people hanging around. Would you give beggars who sit beside those luas machines change because they intimidate you by giving advice on how to use the machines when its not wanted or needed? Ah sure hes only looking for his next fix throw him a few coins...

Yeah nothing like laws to force those who have been marginalised in society even further to the edge. And intimidating? if your intimidated by someone as pathetic as a beggar, walking to a shop must be a terrifying adventure every time.

I take it you have never walked down the quays. Sheltered.

jim o doom · 11-12-2008 5:25pm

Davei141 wrote: »

The OP is a sheltered goon, perhaps when the beggar is some junkie trying to intimidate or a gang of roma's grabbing your arm maybe you wont be so quick to keep those people hanging around. Would you give beggars who sit beside those luas machines change because they intimidate you by giving advice on how to use the machines when its not wanted or needed? Ah sure hes only looking for his next fix throw him a few coins...

I take it you have never walked down the quays. Sheltered.

Whoa, sweeping generalisations and assumptions about me, you sure love to make judgements there, dontcha? Judgements also based on VERY little evidence. The OP mentionned a polite beggar, so clearly NOT intimidating - whatever experiences you have had with other beggars doesn't mean they are all the same, and that means they arn't all heroin users as another poster suggested. Also, I train in town & am on the quays regulairily, and NO homeless person has ever intimidated me, in fact I am rarely even asked for change (perhaps due to having headphones on). Anyway, if it makes you feel better sitting (like me) in a nice warm room behind a PC judging poor cnuts who have fallen to the roadside, go ahead and judge judge judge - it just makes you look like an idiot - you based assumptions on me on a single post, i.e. ZERO evidence. nice.

Rev Hellfire · 11-12-2008 5:29pm

If you want to help the beggars you're better of offering them a hot meal from somewhere.
The answers you get will soon sort out any misguided ideals about helping these people you may find yourself burdened with.

jim o doom · 11-12-2008 5:31pm

Rev Hellfire wrote: »

If you want to help the beggars you're better of offering them a hot meal from somewhere.
The answers you get will soon sort out any misguided ideals about helping these people you may find yourself burdened with.

This is true, because despite them not all being addicted to drugs/alcohol, most of em are

However, that doesn't mean it's going to kill you or them to give the odd one a few bob - even if it is just in a selfish attempt to alleviate a guilty conciensce for being a well adjusted member of society. Hell giving is giving.

topper75 · 11-12-2008 5:32pm

jim o doom wrote: »

and that means they arn't all heroin users as another poster suggested.... ....judging poor cnuts who have fallen to the roadside

Gee! I hope I don't just 'fall' out on the roadside! LOL - is that what you really think happened to them?

I contest that beggars in Irish towns are indeed all heroin users or alcholics. There are dole payments and shelters for those who are bone fide. A bone fide homeless individual does not need to beg. Poor people begging happens in Asia, Africa, and S. America. The ones begging here are addicts. What good are you really doing by throwing money in the paper cup apart from easing your own middle class guilt?

chillywilly · 11-12-2008 5:38pm

topper75 wrote: »

It's actually legal now.

OK apologies - I shouldn't have written in this tone. But I still feel strongly that giving money to beggars is wrong. We already supply welfare payments to people who are in a tough place. The beggars are spending this on heroin and then go begging for more. By giving money you are a/ supporting the drug trade and all the misery that entails b/ encouraging the begging behaviour. This is not India. It is a first world country and people out begging must not be responsible types if they can't make use of generous state support (your money and my money) to get back on their feet.

I agree, there are alot of heroin addicts on the streets and I dont want to feed an addiction, especially to a disgusting thing like that.

I think everyone makes instant judgements of someone just by looking at them. I do the same with homeless people to be honest. If I see a 25 year old man with his eyes barely open, very skinny, gaunt, and underweight who i think is clearly on heroin i dont give them money. I think most people can tell by looking at someone if they have fallen on hard times, or addicted to smack!

Yes, this is a 1st world country, this is why homelessness should be reduced.

Also you need a fixed address to claim benefits which is why it makes it very hard for the homeless to rebuild their lives

jim o doom · 11-12-2008 5:39pm

topper75 wrote: »

Gee! I hope I don't just 'fall' out on the roadside! LOL - is that what you really think happened to them?

I contest that beggars in Irish towns are indeed all heroin users or alcholics. There are dole payments and shelters for those who are bone fide. A bone fide homeless individual does not need to beg. Poor people begging happens in Asia, Africa, and S. America. The ones begging here are addicts. What good are you really doing by throwing money in the paper cup apart from easing your own middle class guilt?

You can contest all you want, but without EVIDENCE all you are doing is making another SWEEPING generalisation. And all charity is selfish ultimately, either immidiate releif from "middle class guilt" which I mentionned in my 2nd last post from this one or the abilitity to be happy in heavan (HAH) for devoting "this" life (as if we had any other). And really - who cares if the beggar goes and buys themself some booze - their life is going to be unhappy, and most likely have an untimely end - if they get their very few remaining jollies through substance abuse, why not facilitate them.

jim o doom · 11-12-2008 5:42pm

Another point RE income tax & what the Govt SHOULD be doing for the homeless; this is the government that more or less NOBODY on boards.ie (that I have seen so far anyway) trusts to be capable of even finding their ar$e with 2 hands, a map, several civial servants & an ar$e finding expert.. and yet when it comes to the homelss, suddenly the government is doing all they can to help these cnuts, because the government does what is right for all of us? don't they?

havana · 11-12-2008 5:50pm

Yes a number of homeless are drug or alcohol users. This thread is not the place to get into the difficulties of trying to get clean while living on the streets or in a hostel.

On the issue of giving money to those begging. Yes it will often be used to buy drugs. I for one would see that as a much better option than the alternatives they might otherwise consider.
fair play to the op!

11-12-2008 8:32pm

chillywilly wrote: »

Anyway, he mostly sits outside this newsagents, not doing much. I came out of the newsagents and noticed a sign in the window of the shop where he usually sits. The sign said "dont give change to beggars please".:eek:

I was pretty f*cking annoyed at this sign. To be honest, im no Mother Teresa, sometimes I give money to the homeless, sometimes I dont, but IMO the shop has no right to tell people to give them money or not.

From your post, they said please. The shop didn't say "Don't you dare give money to beggars!!". Personally I find nothing wrong with such a sign, since beggars can be an inconvenience to a place of business especially during their more busy hours, and there are many potential customers who will go elsewhere rather than have to pass by the beggars to get in.

Maybe they had their reasons to put it up, but I dont think this was the solution and I found it very offensive.

I suppose it would have been better if they had the beggar arrested for being on their property, or for loitering. Or trumping up some other charge to get them away.... Nope. They just asked you not to give them change.

I wasnt in a very confronational mood, so i didnt go into the shop(feel i should have looking back) so I just took out a marker and scribbled over the sign. The shop assistant clearly saw me do this, but I wasnt too bothered.

Well, if they've bothered to put up a sign then clearly its an issue to the shop, and its likely that you defacing their property won't stop them from having it up there. But hey, I guess you can't go back and voice your opinion because you broke the law by destroying their sign.. Wonderful.

So in their eyes, some random yob came along and scribbled over one of their signs for no reason... awesome. :rolleyes:

I know that may seem stupid but it really pissed me off! I then went on my way, and on my way back the sign was gone!:rolleyes:

Yup. It was gone because some poor employee had in the back and was trying to erase your scribbles. Or maybe they decided they should make a new sign altogether. Maybe one that says "don't give change to beggars, please" and below that "The money taken to pay for this sign was taken from our monthly contribution to the local charity".

I wanted to see if people agreed with me, would you done things differently? Or did the shop have every right to put the sign up?

"rant over";)

I disagree completely with you, and believe the shop had the right.

its funny really. In your post you don't mention if you actually gave any money to the beggar. Did you or were you too busy being so righteous?

Actually, yes. The government should be putting more money into getting homeless people off the street.

I'm curious but where is the government going to get this extra money to do this? From what i gather our economy isn't exactly doing so well, and to be clear, all my life I've heard that the government should be putting more money into education, health care, welfare, infrastructure etc. Where would this money come from?

When our economy was booming Ireland didn't have enough money to fix all its problems. Hell, it didn't even come close. Get my drift? The government isn't in any real position to be offering more money to fix this. What Will you do to help fix the problem, or is this just a subject for abstract discussion?

Macha · 11-12-2008 10:11pm

Research has shown that for the majority of individuals, it is personal reasons that lead to homelessness (drug addiction, alcoholism, abuse at home, job loss, divorce) but that it is institutional factors that prevent individuals from leaving homelessness.

Ireland has one of the lowest levels of social welfare spending per capita in Europe (no doubt linked to our lower levels of taxation). There are over 44,000 families on waiting lists for social housing (multiply by 4 to get the number of individuals on average). Policies over the last 15 years have displayed a philosophy towards housing as a commodity, rather than as a human right. So more and more people are unable to enter the housing market - either as renters or buyers.

The attitudes of these businesses are shocking. Profits before people, it seems.

It may be a cliche but it's the measure of a society how it treats its young, elderly and infirm. We do not measure up well.

Davei141 · 11-12-2008 10:51pm

jim o doom wrote: »

Whoa, sweeping generalisations and assumptions about me, you sure love to make judgements there, dontcha?

Yes i do. They are usually correct too. Which leafy part of dublin would you happen to reside in? Get many junkies or alco's around your area do we?

jim o doom wrote: »

Judgements also based on VERY little evidence.

jim o doom wrote: »

The OP mentionned a polite beggar, so clearly NOT intimidating - whatever experiences you have had with other beggars doesn't mean they are all the same,

OP finds a polite beggar and decides to get morally outraged. Show me a polite beggar and ill show you 10 strung out junkies, deal? Experience teaches you to be on your guard you dont have time to evaluate if they are salt of the earth or a junkie, treat em the same. If i see a bunch of travelers experience says get the hell out of there. I couldnt care less how nice they are. Thats life in the real world.

and that means they arn't all heroin users as another poster suggested.

Most are junkies or alco's. If their family wont help them on a freezing cold night you can be damn ****ing sure there is a reason for that.

Also, I train in town & am on the quays regulairily, and NO homeless person has ever intimidated me, in fact I am rarely even asked for change (perhaps due to having headphones on).

Pull the other one please, i walk up the quays a few times a week and there is always a groups of alco's or junkies about the place wanting their next fix or another can of druids. Must be great never getting asked for change or being intimidated by junkie scum. It's a bit like the people saying ah leave the travelers alone its only a minority who are scum, when to any sane person who lives near them or deals with them knows that's not the case. Live it then form an opinion.

Anyway, if it makes you feel better sitting (like me) in a nice warm room behind a PC judging poor cnuts who have fallen to the roadside, go ahead and judge judge judge - it just makes you look like an idiot - you based assumptions on me on a single post, i.e. ZERO evidence. nice.

I would have a guess that most of the people who have read that above quote probably laughed to themselves maybe even grinned. It's you who looks the idiot mate. "poor ***** who have fallen on the way side" Dear god. How many times have they let their family down for the family to turn their back on them? Feck load more than you've experienced the real world my friend.

Davei141 · 11-12-2008 11:18pm

taconnol wrote: »

Research has shown that for the majority of individuals, it is personal reasons that lead to homelessness (drug addiction, alcoholism, abuse at home, job loss, divorce) but that it is institutional factors that prevent individuals from leaving homelessness.

Job loss leads to homelessness? Divorce? are we still talking about the same country?

Ireland has one of the lowest levels of social welfare spending per capita in Europe (no doubt linked to our lower levels of taxation). There are over 44,000 families on waiting lists for social housing (multiply by 4 to get the number of individuals on average). Policies over the last 15 years have displayed a philosophy towards housing as a commodity, rather than as a human right. So more and more people are unable to enter the housing market - either as renters or buyers.

See many families out on the streets do we? What a load of sensationalist nonsense.

The attitudes of these businesses are shocking. Profits before people, it seems.

It may be a cliche but it's the measure of a society how it treats its young, elderly and infirm. We do not measure up well.

You talk like these problems are irish only.

havana wrote:

On the issue of giving money to those begging. Yes it will often be used to buy drugs. I for one would see that as a much better option than the alternatives they might otherwise consider.
fair play to the op!

Give them money in case they decide to violently rob somebody? Brilliant. Yeah that's not intimidating. Sounds like appeasement, thats really going to fix the problem.

jim wrote:

Another point RE income tax & what the Govt SHOULD be doing for the homeless; this is the government that more or less NOBODY on boards.ie (that I have seen so far anyway) trusts to be capable of even finding their ar$e with 2 hands, a map, several civial servants & an ar$e finding expert.. and yet when it comes to the homelss, suddenly the government is doing all they can to help these cnuts, because the government does what is right for all of us? don't they?

Done much lately to help the homeless have we? What have you done lately?

jim wrote:

You can contest all you want, but without EVIDENCE all you are doing is making another SWEEPING generalisation.

If you could bet your nice house on it what would you say the majority are? Alco's and junkie's or just "poor sods who fell on the way side"?

And all charity is selfish ultimately, either immidiate releif from "middle class guilt" which I mentionned in my 2nd last post from this one or the abilitity to be happy in heavan (HAH) for devoting "this" life (as if we had any other).

You didn't challenge his assumption, you like to challenge the assumption's about beggars but wouldn't challenge the one above. A correct one maybe? Listen, it's easy preaching from the ivory tower. You are sheltered, your opinion isn't based on any kind of experience. Easy to rally for what you haven't experienced.

And really - who cares if the beggar goes and buys themself some booze - their life is going to be unhappy, and most likely have an untimely end - if they get their very few remaining jollies through substance abuse, why not facilitate them.

What a solution. Hooked on gear out on the streets everyone lining up to chuck some money into your gear box. Its like junkie heaven.

jim wrote:

This is true, because despite them not all being addicted to drugs/alcohol, most of em are However, that doesn't mean it's going to kill you or them to give the odd one a few bob - even if it is just in a selfish attempt to alleviate a guilty conciensce for being a well adjusted member of society. Hell giving is giving.

Well adjusted member of society? Is that what you are? Because you feel guilty about smack heads begging. Is that really the criteria to be a well adjusted member of society? Ever given the roma a few quid as well? The poor woman has a baby you must feel god awful guilty when you walk past them. Your not a well adjusted member of society mate, your just an easily manipulated member of society who when he gets a hard dose of the real world, wont be singing the same tune.

Macha · 11-12-2008 11:20pm

Davei141 wrote: »

Most are junkies or alco's. If their family wont help them on a freezing cold night you can be damn ****ing sure there is a reason for that.
times have they let their family down for the family to turn their back on them? Feck load more than you've experienced the real world my friend.

That's it? That's your reason for not helping homeless people? Because you make some insane assumptions like their relationship with their family??

And then if their family turns their back on them, so should the rest of society? What sort of warped logic is that? For a start, families don't have the same tools to help with addictions that social services do.

You're a bit too trigger-happy with the "naive" label.

Davei141 · 11-12-2008 11:46pm

taconnol wrote: »

That's it? That's your reason for not helping homeless people? Because you make some insane assumptions like their relationship with their family??

Its one of the reasons. Do you really consider throwing a 2 euro coin helping? My point was you dont just happen to be homeless someday for no reason. You think its insane to think they must of really been ***** to get no help from their family? Not even a room? thats insane?

And then if their family turns their back on them, so should the rest of society? What sort of warped logic is that? For a start, families don't have the same tools to help with addictions that social services do.

If the family cant help your meaningless gesture in the form of a few coins to make yourself feel better most certainly wont. If they want to get help how on earth is you chipping in for their next fix going to help that? And you accuse me of warped logic?

You're a bit too trigger-happy with the "naive" label.

Maybe, but i think its justified.

Macha · 11-12-2008 11:54pm

Davei141 wrote: »

Its one of the reasons. Do you really consider throwing a 2 euro coin helping? My point was you dont just happen to be homeless someday for no reason. You think its insane to think they must of really been ***** to get no help from their family? Not even a room? thats insane?

You're assuming that
a) they have any family
b) the family are kind enough to want to help
c) the family feel that they can help
d) the family are actually able to help
e) the family aren't the reason they're homeless in the FIRST place

As I mentioned earlier many homeless people leave home because of bad situations, abuse, divorce, etc. You take one look at a person, make a whole raft of assumptions and in my book, that's called being prejudiced.

I also mentioned that research has shown that it is institutional factors that keep homeless people on the streets.

For me, it isn't the €2 that I give them that is the most important, part of it is acknowledging they exist and acknowledging that they are in need. The worst thing for a homeless person must be for someone to walk past and not even acknowledge their existence. I do also give to charities to support the homeless.

Davei141 wrote: »

Maybe, but i think its justified.

Unfortunately, I think you're displaying the most naitivite on here on the subject of homelessness. Taking a tough stance doesn't automatically mean that everyone else is naive.

havana · 12-12-2008 12:01am

How many people on here have ever actually spoken to a homeless person or drug user. I'd imagine not too many. Hence the sweeping generalisations. I love the assumption that the 'polite' begger must not have been a 'junkie' because he was polite.

i meet polite 'junkies' every day of my life. And i meet 'scum' ones too. And i also meet polite and scum from every other walk of life in this city.

Whoever put down the 'and i'll show you 10 junkies' challenge i'll see you challenge and raise it. You show me 10 scum i'll show you 50 polite.

JohnGalt · 12-12-2008 12:01am

chillywilly wrote: »

I came out of a newsagents in Rathmines yesterday. Anyone who knows Rathmines will know that theres always one or two homeless people around the Swan centre. I always see one in particular, i rememeber once he held open the door for me, i said thank you and i remember him saying "your welcome". The way he said "your welcome" was kind of an appreciative way of saying "thanks for acknowledging me".

Anyway, he mostly sits outside this newsagents, not doing much. I came out of the newsagents and noticed a sign in the window of the shop where he usually sits. The sign said "dont give change to beggars please".:eek:

I was pretty f*cking annoyed at this sign. To be honest, im no Mother Teresa, sometimes I give money to the homeless, sometimes I dont, but IMO the shop has no right to tell people to give them money or not. Maybe they had their reasons to put it up, but I dont think this was the solution and I found it very offensive.

I wasnt in a very confronational mood, so i didnt go into the shop(feel i should have looking back) so I just took out a marker and scribbled over the sign. The shop assistant clearly saw me do this, but I wasnt too bothered. I know that may seem stupid but it really pissed me off! I then went on my way, and on my way back the sign was gone!:rolleyes:

I wanted to see if people agreed with me, would you done things differently? Or did the shop have every right to put the sign up?

"rant over";)

Well I am glad you are no Mother Theresa to begin with anyway:

http://www.secularhumanism.org/library/fi/hitchens_16_4.html

I can understand fully why a sign such as this would be in place. If I was a shop owner I certainly would not want homeless people congregating outside my front door, it is pretty obvious that this could discourage customers from entering my shop. Whether I would actually put one in place is a different question however, as I don't think it would have the desired effect and may in fact discourage others from entering the premises.

Zombrex · 12-12-2008 12:17am

chillywilly wrote: »

Yes, this is a 1st world country, this is why homelessness should be reduced.

I heard a statistic a while back (from a social worker) that half of the homeless people in Dublin are addicts (alcohol or drugs) and the other half have mental health problems.

These unfortunately are the two groups that it is very difficult to help. The addicts won't go into programs that require that they stop using (though "wet" shelters, ones that allow drug use, are becoming more common), and those with mental health problems are just difficult to help in general.

I agree 100% with not giving money to beggers, if someone feels bad for them they should give the money to a charity that they know will spend the money wisely.

I also say I have to agree with the sign. I pass through the city centre every day to work and while the vast majority of homeless don't give any hassle beyond asking for money, some do try to block you and can get aggressive. People don't need to feel guilty about not giving money to beggers, as someone else said this isn't India, or even America. Very few people have no option but to be living on the street begging, they are there because of the issues I mentioned above and the way to help them is to give money to charities that know what they are doing and will spend the money trying to get them off the street and back to normal lives.

matrim · 12-12-2008 12:17am

chillywilly wrote: »

I came out of a newsagents in Rathmines yesterday. Anyone who knows Rathmines will know that theres always one or two homeless people around the Swan centre. I always see one in particular, i rememeber once he held open the door for me, i said thank you and i remember him saying "your welcome". The way he said "your welcome" was kind of an appreciative way of saying "thanks for acknowledging me".

Anyway, he mostly sits outside this newsagents, not doing much. I came out of the newsagents and noticed a sign in the window of the shop where he usually sits. The sign said "dont give change to beggars please".:eek:

I was pretty f*cking annoyed at this sign. To be honest, im no Mother Teresa, sometimes I give money to the homeless, sometimes I dont, but IMO the shop has no right to tell people to give them money or not. Maybe they had their reasons to put it up, but I dont think this was the solution and I found it very offensive.

I wasnt in a very confronational mood, so i didnt go into the shop(feel i should have looking back) so I just took out a marker and scribbled over the sign. The shop assistant clearly saw me do this, but I wasnt too bothered. I know that may seem stupid but it really pissed me off! I then went on my way, and on my way back the sign was gone!:rolleyes:

I wanted to see if people agreed with me, would you done things differently? Or did the shop have every right to put the sign up?

"rant over";)

I haven't read the rest of the thread and this is a bit off topic, but if it's the guy I think it is that you are talking about, I once saw someone come out of the shop and offer him an unopened sandwich they had just bought for him.

He promptly told them to **** off that he didn't want a sandwich. Since then I never gave the guy any change (I used to once every couple of weeks), and because of that don't blame the shop for not wanting him outside.

Davei141 · 12-12-2008 12:37am

taconnol wrote: »

You're assuming that
a) they have any family
b) the family are kind enough to want to help
c) the family feel that they can help
d) the family are actually able to help
e) the family aren't the reason they're homeless in the FIRST place

Yeah im making assumptions, I don't want to get to know them all. Do you?

As I mentioned earlier many homeless people leave home because of bad situations, abuse, divorce, etc. You take one look at a person, make a whole raft of assumptions and in my book, that's called being prejudiced.

Divorce? Seriously stop adding things in for the sake of it. Yes im prejudice. Ever pre judge somebody? A gang of youths coming towards you? A traveler wanting to tarmac your drive? A bunch of roma? People prejudge all the time for their own safety.

I also mentioned that research has shown that it is institutional factors that keep homeless people on the streets.

Homelessness isn't an irish only issue. Blame whatever you want there will always be homeless.

For me, it isn't the €2 that I give them that is the most important, part of it is acknowledging they exist and acknowledging that they are in need. The worst thing for a homeless person must be for someone to walk past and not even acknowledge their existence. I do also give to charities to support the homeless.

Seriously, are you taking the piss. The whole point of not acknowledging them is that once you make eye contact they start asking. Same principle with chuggers, dont make eye contact and the chances of being hassled are less. Do you make eye contact and give money to all them or just the one to stop your guilt?

Unfortunately, I think you're displaying the most naitivite on here on the subject of homelessness. Taking a tough stance doesn't automatically mean that everyone else is naive.

Of course it doesn't. But when people have to put up with constant intimidation whether its someone sitting at an ATM or somebody sitting at a luas ticket machine, they tend not to be so apologetic. Or some junkie asked for a euro for the bus, "come on its only a ****in euro" You get me...

Davei141 · 12-12-2008 12:46am

havana wrote: »

How many people on here have ever actually spoken to a homeless person or drug user. I'd imagine not too many. Hence the sweeping generalisations. I love the assumption that the 'polite' begger must not have been a 'junkie' because he was polite.

Im sure he had great views on the recent pork scandal too.

i meet polite 'junkies' every day of my life. And i meet 'scum' ones too. And i also meet polite and scum from every other walk of life in this city.

The "polite" junkies are nice till you say you have no money or no smokes. Then see how nice they are, if you always give them money im sure they will even be your best friend...

Whoever put down the 'and i'll show you 10 junkies' challenge i'll see you challenge and raise it. You show me 10 scum i'll show you 50 polite.

A walk up the quays for me and you'll be spending a few weeks in town.

"dont give change to beggars please"

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