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Are there any credible conspiracy theories?

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    #722
    McGinniesta
    Registered Users Posts: 4,402 ✭✭✭McGinniesta


    9/11 total set up.


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    #723
    Dohnjoe
    Registered Users Posts: 17,777 ✭✭✭✭Dohnjoe


    McGinniesta wrote: »
    9/11 total set up.

    Right, so what really happened?

    In your own words or a link to a text description of what alternatively occurred (no "open your eyes man", "watch this 3 hour Youtube video", etc please)


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    #724
    SafeSurfer
    Registered Users Posts: 6,415 ✭✭✭SafeSurfer


    The testimony given to the US senate committee prior to the Gulf War which contributed to the US going to war. Witness claimed Iraqi troops broke into Kuwaiti maternity hospitals and threw babies on the floor.
    Amnesty International and other NGOs. It was later revealed that the testimony was organised by a US public relations company and the witness was in fact the daughter of the then Kuwaiti ambassador to the US.

    Multo autem ad rem magis pertinet quallis tibi vide aris quam allis



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    #725
    Dr. Bre
    Registered Users Posts: 7,537 ✭✭✭Dr. Bre


    Dohnjoe wrote: »
    Right, so what really happened?

    In your own words or a link to a text description of what alternatively occurred (no "open your eyes man", "watch this 3 hour Youtube video", etc please)

    Watch loose change bro it will blow your mind lol


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    #726
    Dohnjoe
    Registered Users Posts: 17,777 ✭✭✭✭Dohnjoe


    Dr. Bre wrote: »
    Watch loose change bro it will blow your mind lol

    I have, it's a load of bull****. Like most all 9/11 conspiracy videos I've seen it doesn't even bother to lay out any coherent conspiracy.


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    #727
    cgcsb
    Registered Users Posts: 9,275 ✭✭✭cgcsb


    In 2003 some people said that the invasion of Iraq was based on false evidence and was just an excuse to artificially inflate the price of oil and effectively gift the local resource to certain oil companies. These people were dismissed as madsers at the time and it turns out they were 100% correct and the mainstream media has drip fed the truth over a number of years, but the world doesn't seem to actually care about it for some strange reason and these people continue to steal resources from one of the world's poorest countries.

    Nuclear weapons intelligence is false:

    https://www.washingtonpost.com/gdpr-consent/?next_url=https%3a%2f%2fwww.washingtonpost.com%2fpolitics%2f2019%2f03%2f22%2firaq-war-wmds-an-intelligence-failure-or-white-house-spin%2f

    David Kelly is permanently silenced:

    https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-13716127

    BP explores Iraqi oil:

    https://www.theguardian.com/business/2009/jun/30/bp-oil-contract-exploration-iraq#:~:text=A%20BP%2Dled%20consortium%20has,time%20in%20almost%2040%20years.

    Head of MI6 becomes CEO of BP:

    https://www.theguardian.com/business/2015/may/14/bp-hires-former-mi6-boss-john-sawers-oil

    The world shrugs it's shoulders.


    I wouldn't be mad surprised if a number of other conspiracy theories previously laughed at were slowly revealed to be true (or somewhat true) over a few years/decades. I think most people now accept that the US secret services killed a couple of high profile folks over the years, perhaps Marylin Munroe and JF Kennedy, and there remains no satisfactory public explanation for WTC7 collapse. A more recent example of the MSM dropping hints is the topic of aliens/ufos over the past year, just enough to get people used to the idea:

    Venus microbes:
    https://www.nytimes.com/2020/09/14/science/venus-life-clouds.html

    Oumuamua:
    https://edition.cnn.com/2018/11/06/health/oumuamua-alien-probe-harvard-intl/index.html

    USAF UFO footage:
    https://www.cnbc.com/2020/04/28/pentagon-declassifies-ufo-videos-taken-by-navy-pilots.html

    Signal from nearest solar system:
    https://www.theguardian.com/science/2020/dec/18/scientists-looking-for-aliens-investigate-radio-beam-from-nearby-star


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    #728
    Dohnjoe
    Registered Users Posts: 17,777 ✭✭✭✭Dohnjoe


    cgcsb wrote: »
    In 2003 some people said that the invasion of Iraq was based on false evidence and was just an excuse to artificially inflate the price of oil and effectively gift the local resource to certain oil companies. These people were dismissed as madsers at the time and it turns out they were 100% correct and the mainstream media has drip fed the truth over a number of years, but the world doesn't seem to actually care about it for some strange reason and these people continue to steal resources from one of the world's poorest countries.

    They weren't "dismissed as madsers"

    The US/UK couldn't get UN support, massive global protests took place, many traditional allies (e.g. France, Germany) openly opposed the war, many press and media outlets questioned and exposed the faulty and distorted claims.
    there remains no satisfactory public explanation for WTC7 collapse.

    Multiple investigations corroborated the findings. No credible alternative has ever been put forward.


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    #729
    ShatterAlan
    Registered Users Posts: 2,807 ✭✭✭ShatterAlan


    Dohnjoe wrote: »
    I have, it's a load of bull****. Like most all 9/11 conspiracy videos I've seen it doesn't even bother to lay out any coherent conspiracy.


    Was anything in Loose Change truthful or was the whole thing a pack of lies?


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    #730
    Dohnjoe
    Registered Users Posts: 17,777 ✭✭✭✭Dohnjoe


    ShatterAlan wrote: »
    Was anything in Loose Change truthful or was the whole thing a pack of lies?

    The whole video was designed to manipulate the viewer by casting doubt on the event. The points it raised have long been explained/debunked or shown to be irrelevant/out of context

    Have you watched it?
    What credible evidence-backed conspiracy theory does it put forward?
    What points do you think haven't been explained/debunked?


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    #731
    Samsonsmasher
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 610 ✭✭✭Samsonsmasher


    ShatterAlan wrote: »
    Was anything in Loose Change truthful or was the whole thing a pack of lies?

    The Loose Change idiots never explained who rigged the buildings with explosives which would have had to be sneaked into the building right under the noses of the NYPD and Port Authority and thousands of people who worked there and how they got away with it for almost 2 decades???


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    #732
    ShatterAlan
    Registered Users Posts: 2,807 ✭✭✭ShatterAlan


    Dohnjoe wrote: »
    The whole video was designed to manipulate the viewer by casting doubt on the event. The points it raised have long been explained/debunked or shown to be irrelevant/out of context

    Have you watched it?
    What credible evidence-backed conspiracy theory does it put forward?
    What points do you think haven't been explained/debunked?


    Well if it's so easy to cast doubt on the event then the event itself might just be questionable. What in the film do you think was untruthful?

    You're the one who said it was all bullshit, not me so I'm just asking you what lies or falsehoods were put forward?


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    #733
    Dohnjoe
    Registered Users Posts: 17,777 ✭✭✭✭Dohnjoe


    ShatterAlan wrote: »
    Well if it's so easy to cast doubt on the event then the event itself might just be questionable.

    It's simple to cast doubt on anything, e.g. there are thousands of hours of videos casting doubt on everything from the moon landings to whether the world is actually round
    What in the film do you think was untruthful?

    It's whole approach to the facts is dishonest. We know what happened, yet it uses all the usual tricks and techniques to cast doubt on the event in an attempt to manipulate viewers.

    To repeat my questions..

    Have you watched it?
    What credible evidence-backed conspiracy theory does it put forward?
    What points do you think haven't been explained/debunked?


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    #734
    ShatterAlan
    Registered Users Posts: 2,807 ✭✭✭ShatterAlan


    Samsonsmasher wrote: »
    The Loose Change idiots never explained who rigged the buildings with explosives which would have had to be sneaked into the building right under the noses of the NYPD and Port Authority and thousands of people who worked there and how they got away with it for almost 2 decades???


    Well the NYPD didn't guard the building so they wouldn't have had to be bypassed. Have you ever worked in an office block? I have, in New York City I might add and in several different high-rise buildings. There were teams in and out all the time doing work on something or other, elevators, heating, ventilation, aircon ducts, electricals, network cabling, watering the plants, servicing the coffee machines, etc. Nobody ever said boo to them. So your theory that they would have to somehow get past the thousands of people who worked there is nonsense. As if Stacy the secretary or Jose the mail room worker is going to have the slightest clue or interest in guys riding the freight elevators or rummaging around in the cable conduits.


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    #735
    ShatterAlan
    Registered Users Posts: 2,807 ✭✭✭ShatterAlan


    Dohnjoe wrote: »
    It's simple to cast doubt on anything, e.g. there are thousands of hours of videos casting doubt on everything from the moon landings to whether the world is actually round



    It's whole approach to the facts is dishonest. We know what happened, yet it uses all the usual tricks and techniques to cast doubt on the event in an attempt to manipulate viewers.

    To repeat my questions..

    Have you watched it?
    What credible evidence-backed conspiracy theory does it put forward?
    What points do you think haven't been explained/debunked?


    You're the one who said it's bullshit, not me and yet here you are trying to make me explain whether it's truthful or not. I asked you what was a falsification and you sidestepped the question talking about moon-landings and flat earth videos.


    Your MO is to take an end result and then state that that end result happened in a certain way and that the proof that it happened that way is because we have the end result. The way you argue is akin to stating that the giant statues on Easter Island were transported there on wooden canoes from 1000s of miles across the Pacific, even thought they weigh upwards of 10 to 15 tonnes. If someone were to cast doubt on this theory you would state that "how else could it have happened? The statues are there on the island right in front of your eyes. That's the proof." And then you'd launch into the "argument from incredulity" angle stating that if someone doesn't believe that they were transported that way then "it couldn't have happened."


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    #736
    Dohnjoe
    Registered Users Posts: 17,777 ✭✭✭✭Dohnjoe


    ShatterAlan wrote: »
    You're the one who said it's bullshit, not me and yet here you are trying to make me explain whether it's truthful or not. I asked you what was a falsification and you sidestepped the question talking about moon-landings and flat earth videos.

    It's approach is bull****, as explained. I didn't ask you to explain whether it's truthful or not, the questions are there if you want to address them.
    Your MO is to take an end result and then state that that end result happened in a certain way and that the proof that it happened that way is because we have the end result. The way you argue is akin to stating that the giant statues on Easter Island were transported there on wooden canoes from 1000s of miles across the Pacific, even thought they weigh upwards of 10 to 15 tonnes. If someone were to cast doubt on this theory you would state that "how else could it have happened? The statues are there on the island right in front of your eyes. That's the proof."

    Right. Another question, do you maintain that 9/11 was an inside job?


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    #737
    King Mob
    Registered Users Posts: 25,226 ✭✭✭✭King Mob


    ShatterAlan wrote: »
    What in the film do you think was untruthful?
    ?
    Pretty much all of it's conspiracy claims are untruthful and have been long debunked.
    For example it outright lies about things like how long it took WTC 7 to collapse.

    They have been so thoroughly debunked that most truthers don't even bother with the movie any more and ate kind of embarassed by it.
    There's a reason it's not brought up anymore.


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    #738
    ShatterAlan
    Registered Users Posts: 2,807 ✭✭✭ShatterAlan


    Dohnjoe wrote: »
    It's approach is bull****, as explained. I didn't ask you to explain whether it's truthful or not, the questions are there if you want to address them.



    Right. Another question, do you maintain that 9/11 was an inside job?


    I don't maintain anything about 9/11. I've in the past pointed to holes and contradictions in the narrative, you don't like them so rather than address them you try to turn it into a circular argument.

    But it seems as if some people knew it was coming and when, judging by the apparent volume of put options on various airline stocks in the days leading up to it. Maybe this was purely a coincidence, it's possible, but it's a lot more likely that some people had foreknowledge


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    #739
    Dohnjoe
    Registered Users Posts: 17,777 ✭✭✭✭Dohnjoe


    ShatterAlan wrote: »
    I don't maintain anything about 9/11. I've in the past pointed to holes and contradictions in the narrative, you don't like them so rather than address them you try to turn it into a circular argument.

    The "holes" and "contradictions" you've presented so far have been addressed. The only circular arguments here are your own.

    You've decided that your disbelief of something is an argument against that thing, it isn't. When asked for a counter explanation you never provide anything coherent, when asked for evidence you provide none.

    So far, with all of your 911 comments I've seen it's been one endless case of "I can't believe/understand it, therefore it didn't happen".


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    #740
    ShatterAlan
    Registered Users Posts: 2,807 ✭✭✭ShatterAlan


    Dohnjoe wrote: »
    The "holes" and "contradictions" you've presented so far have been addressed. The only circular arguments here are your own.

    You've decided that your disbelief of something is an argument against that thing, it isn't. When asked for a counter explanation you never provide anything coherent, when asked for evidence you provide none.

    So far, with all of your 911 comments I've seen it's been one endless case of "I can't believe/understand it, therefore it didn't happen".


    And with your comments it's a case of "I believe xyz happened in such a way, therefore it had to have happened that way." regardless of the improbabilities.



    I gave the Easter Island statues analogy and that's pretty much how you operate. If the kid said that the emperor was naked rather than wearing invisible robes you'd scream at him saying "but he's wearing invisible clothes, you can see that. Just because you don't believe or understand it doesn't mean it's not true."


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    #741
    Dohnjoe
    Registered Users Posts: 17,777 ✭✭✭✭Dohnjoe


    ShatterAlan wrote: »
    And with your comments it's a case of "I believe xyz happened in such a way, therefore it had to have happened that way." regardless of the improbabilities.

    Nope. My views are based on the supporting evidence.

    Your views on this aren't, you've never provided any supporting evidence, in fact you've never once provided any alternative explanation. It's purely "I can't believe it, so it didn't happen", over and over. Nothing of substance but that.
    I gave the Easter Island statues analogy and that's pretty much how you operate. If the kid said that the emperor was naked rather than wearing invisible robes you'd scream at him saying "but he's wearing invisible clothes, you can see that. Just because you don't believe or understand it doesn't mean it's not true."

    Absolute gobbledygook.


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    #742
    ShatterAlan
    Registered Users Posts: 2,807 ✭✭✭ShatterAlan


    Dohnjoe wrote: »
    Nope. My views are based on the supporting evidence.

    Your views on this aren't, you've never provided any supporting evidence, in fact you've never once provided any alternative explanation. It's purely "I can't believe it, so it didn't happen", over and over. Nothing of substance but that.



    Absolute gobbledygook.


    You address what you feel like addressing and ignore stuff that's inconvenient. Do you have an opinion on the 1000% increase in put option volumes? Do you think it was just a coincidence?


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    #743
    Timberrrrrrrr
    Registered Users Posts: 25,405 ✭✭✭✭Timberrrrrrrr


    ShatterAlan wrote: »
    Well the NYPD didn't guard the building so they wouldn't have had to be bypassed. Have you ever worked in an office block? I have, in New York City I might add and in several different high-rise buildings. There were teams in and out all the time doing work on something or other, elevators, heating, ventilation, aircon ducts, electricals, network cabling, watering the plants, servicing the coffee machines, etc. Nobody ever said boo to them. So your theory that they would have to somehow get past the thousands of people who worked there is nonsense. As if Stacy the secretary or Jose the mail room worker is going to have the slightest clue or interest in guys riding the freight elevators or rummaging around in the cable conduits.

    Have you ever worked in demolition with explosives in high rise buildings? I have an trust me you don't just stick bits of dynamite in air con ducts or lift shafts.

    Thousands of holes have to be drilled into the supporting walls, structural steel has to be cut in the correct places and miles of det cord has to link all of this together.

    Explain please how this was done without anyone noticing and then I'll explain why you are wrong.


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    #744
    King Mob
    Registered Users Posts: 25,226 ✭✭✭✭King Mob


    ShatterAlan wrote: »
    You address what you feel like addressing and ignore stuff that's inconvenient. Do you have an opinion on the 1000% increase in put option volumes? Do you think it was just a coincidence?
    A very old thing to accuse someone of given the hundreds of points and questions you've avoided in this thread alone.


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    #745
    Dohnjoe
    Registered Users Posts: 17,777 ✭✭✭✭Dohnjoe


    ShatterAlan wrote: »
    You address what you feel like addressing and ignore stuff that's inconvenient.

    I address what I can, if someone is incoherent or incomprehensible, that's their issue. You've ignored a large number of questions and points.
    Do you have an opinion on the 1000% increase in put option volumes? Do you think it was just a coincidence?

    It was investigated to death, no insider trading was found, one of investors who bought 95% of the puts also bought stock in the airline.

    Was it part of a conspiracy, if so, what conspiracy exactly?


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    #746
    ShatterAlan
    Registered Users Posts: 2,807 ✭✭✭ShatterAlan


    Dohnjoe wrote: »
    I address what I can, if someone is incoherent or incomprehensible, that's their issue. You've ignored a large number of questions and points.



    It was investigated to death, no insider trading was found, one of investors who bought 95% of the puts also bought stock in the airline.

    Was it part of a conspiracy, if so, what conspiracy exactly?


    So just one person placed 95% of the put options? Who was he?


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    #747
    Dohnjoe
    Registered Users Posts: 17,777 ✭✭✭✭Dohnjoe


    ShatterAlan wrote: »
    So just one person placed 95% of the put options? Who was he?

    On AA, that's the info I read, dunno the name. Google it perhaps.


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    #748
    ShatterAlan
    Registered Users Posts: 2,807 ✭✭✭ShatterAlan


    Timberrrrrrrr wrote: »
    Have you ever worked in demolition with explosives in high rise buildings? I have an trust me you don't just stick bits of dynamite in air con ducts or lift shafts.

    Thousands of holes have to be drilled into the supporting walls, structural steel has to be cut in the correct places and miles of det cord has to link all of this together.

    Explain please how this was done without anyone noticing and then I'll explain why you are wrong.


    No I haven't worked in demolition. I don't doubt that it's a pretty complicated procedure to rig a building. So in your expert opinion if these buildings were to be rigged for demolition how long would that process take?


    How long would it take to rig say and 30 floor tower block of flats that was slated for demolition?


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    #749
    McGinniesta
    Registered Users Posts: 4,402 ✭✭✭McGinniesta


    Dohnjoe wrote: »
    Right, so what really happened?

    In your own words or a link to a text description of what alternatively occurred (no "open your eyes man", "watch this 3 hour Youtube video", etc please)

    It's not so much what happened, It's what didn't happen.

    The official story appears to be as unlikely as any conspiracy that has been formulated.

    I don't know what happened. Frankly, nobody else knows for sure either.


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    #750
    McGinniesta
    Registered Users Posts: 4,402 ✭✭✭McGinniesta


    Dohnjoe wrote: »
    I have, it's a load of bull****. Like most all 9/11 conspiracy videos I've seen it doesn't even bother to lay out any coherent conspiracy.

    Do you believe everything in the official explanation. That's equally as implausible.


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    #751
    ShatterAlan
    Registered Users Posts: 2,807 ✭✭✭ShatterAlan


    Dohnjoe wrote: »
    On AA, that's the info I read, dunno the name. Google it perhaps.


    I have done and can't find anything on Mr. 95%


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