Why is there ever a debate about who was the best Irish Sports person ever? READ OP

El Tarangu · 03-08-2020 11:09am

ToddDameron wrote: »

Ultimately it's because Keane had a bigger influence on the team. Listen to any ex players in those United teams and they'll say he drove them on and got the best out of the them. Irwin was excellent, but Keane held the captaincy, was a respected leader and was a major driving force behind the success.

According to the visionary manager under whom all of this silverware was won, Irwin was the more reliable player.

ToddDameron wrote: »

Not really, you play an enormous amount of games when taking cups into consideration and have to consistently perform week in and week out (against players from all over the world) to keep your place, and at a top club you will be replaced if you don't. Constant international scrutiny and pressure from fans, management and media. To do all of that 5 or 6 times is remarkable, and the wages and prize money reflect that.

If this is a consideration when judging our greatest ever sportsperson, then soccer players would be out of the running altogether, as their calendar is dwarfed by that of any professional cyclist.

The wages and prize money is reflective of the popularity of the sport, nothing more.

Randy Archer · 03-08-2020 11:21am

teednab-el wrote: »

What happened in 2000 and 2004 Olympics to her? She was ill in 1996 fair enough but she didn't have to loose the rag with Tony Considine after she came last in the race. It sumed her up for me to be honest.

Her period of success in European and worlds was pretty much over by 2000-2004 , she wasn’t the same successful athlete as she was in the 1990s . How was she expected to win in 2000 and 2004 When her form wasn’t there ?

You get any highly strung athlete coming off a bad performance and they know it , the last thing they want to do is be asked stupid questions from a person who wouldn’t know his arse from his elbow and have the cameras shoved into her face

She won a silver medal in 2000 by the way , so what are you on a bout ? John Tracey Won less in the Worlds and Euros and has been able to dine on his silver medal for decades. 2004 was her swan song, she wasn’t expected to do much

Bridge93 · 03-08-2020 12:00pm

Gabriella Szabó who won gold in Sydney had drugs found in her car by French customs did she not? I thought there was a lot of bad feeling that Sonia was likely cheated in 2000

ToddDameron · 03-08-2020 12:18pm

El Tarangu wrote: »

According to the visionary manager under whom all of this silverware was won, Irwin was the more reliable

Read the post. Irwin was reliable and rarely made a mistake on the pitch. Keane was the captain who drove the team on, listen to any player testimonial and they'll talk about the impact of Keane. That, for me, is why Keane is ahead if him. Ferguson also supports that point:

https://youtu.be/cvied4Y_0Sk

"The reason why I say Keane is the best player I ever had was because he was the most influential, he was the driving force behind the club for a decade."

Also the amount of games is a consideration when you're playing the most popular sport in world week in and week out, where you'll be dropped if you don't maintain a certain level, and where clubs are always on the look out for someone better. Now imagine doing that for 12 years and excelling in the process. That point was also specifically a comparison to GAA, obviously, as evidenced by the post it was responding to.

OneLungDavy · 03-08-2020 12:22pm

Don't kill me, but Eoin Morgan must be up there.

The Lost Sheep · 03-08-2020 12:31pm

teednab-el wrote: »

What happened in 2000 and 2004 Olympics to her? She was ill in 1996 fair enough but she didn't have to loose the rag with Tony Considine after she came last in the race. It sumed her up for me to be honest.

How did it sum her up?
And she got silver in 2000 and was 35 in 2004. Wouldnt have expected her to be challenging then.

eagle eye · 03-08-2020 1:03pm

OneLungDavy wrote:

Don't kill me, but Eoin Morgan must be up there.

If Katie Taylor is it because my considered then Eoin Morgan certainly can't be. Like there's only a few countries that play top level cricket.
Also he plays for England so it's greatest English sportsperson that he'd be contending for.

eagle eye · 03-08-2020 1:19pm

Right I was trying to stay modern but then people bring in that even though somebody completely dominated a sport it's not major enough for her to be in contention.

So time to end it.

Ireland's greatest ever sportsperson was James Cecil Parke from Clones, County Monaghan.
In tennis this man won the silver medal at the 1908 Olympics, won the Australian open men's tennis championship, was twice a beaten semi-finalist at Wimbledon. He won an Australian open doubles title as well and was a beaten finalist at doubles in Wimbledon, he won the mixed doubles at Wimbledon and also won the Davis Cup.
That not enough for you?
Well he played 30 times for Ireland as a centre at rugby, he represented Ireland in golf, was a first class cricketer and was a multiple national track and field sprint champion.

Nobody comes close.

El Tarangu · 03-08-2020 1:22pm

ToddDameron wrote: »

Also the amount of games is a consideration when you're playing the most popular sport in world week in and week out, where you'll be dropped if you don't maintain a certain level, and where clubs are always on the look out for someone better. Now imagine doing that for 12 years and excelling in the process. That point was also specifically a comparison to GAA, obviously, as evidenced by the post it was responding to.

What does the the popularity of the sport have to with it; does the fact that the sport gets its own section in the newspapers mean that soccer players are more impressive athletes then (for example) ultra-Ironman competitors?

The bolded part is true for literally any professional athlete.

Sean Kelly, as others have pointed out, dominated his chosen sport in a more comprehensive way than Roy Keane did, and for just as long.

ToddDameron · 03-08-2020 1:24pm

eagle eye wrote: »

Right I was trying to stay modern but then people bring in that even though somebody completely dominated a sport it's not major enough for her to be in contention.

So time to end it.

Ireland's greatest ever sportsperson was James Cecil Parke from Clones, County Monaghan.
In tennis this man won the silver medal at the 1908 Olympics, won the Australian open men's tennis championship, was twice a beaten semi-finalist at Wimbledon. He won an Australian open doubles title as well and was a beaten finalist at doubles in Wimbledon, he won the mixed doubles at Wimbledon and also won the Davis Cup.
That not enough for you?
Well he played 30 times for Ireland as a centre at rugby, he represented Ireland in golf, was a first class cricketer and was a multiple national track and field sprint champion.

Nobody comes close.

Could he do it on a rainy night in Stoke though?

ToddDameron · 03-08-2020 1:33pm

El Tarangu wrote: »

What does the the popularity of the sport have to with it; does the fact that the sport gets its own section in the newspapers mean that soccer players are more impressive athletes then (for example) ultra-Ironman competitors?

The bolded part is true for literally any professional athlete.

Sean Kelly, as others have pointed out, dominated his chosen sport in a more comprehensive way than Roy Keane did, and for just as long.

Do you have any response to any of my other points? You've put forward Denis Irwin and Ferguson's comments about him as evidence of him being as equally as important as Keane. I've shown you Ferguson explaining why Keane was more influential. So any comment?

The popularity of the sport means more pressure because it means more people are invested and the competition to stay at the top is simply greater because the numbers of professionals involved internationally. You can't lose your place on team Ireland because there's someone better in China to fill the position, with club football you can.

The premier league, the champions league and the world cup are some of the most watched events in the world for example. The vast majority of players don't achieve anything in football, so for an Irish player to hold his own for 12 years on the biggest stage in the world is why the popularity of the sport is relevant, because mathematically he had more people to contend with.

I don't think anyone on the thread is saying Roy is a more impressive athlete than an ultra iron man so that comment is just stupid. Sport is about winning, and winning on the biggest stage. Keane has done that consistently.

And I've already acknowledged there are many other sports people deserving to be in the discussion, but for me it's Keane for the reasons stated.

El Tarangu · 03-08-2020 1:53pm

ToddDameron wrote: »

You can't lose your place on team Ireland because there's someone better in China to fill the position, with club football you can.

Again, this is true of any professional sport

ToddDameron wrote: »

Sport is about winning, and winning on the biggest stage. Keane has done that consistently.

- no he didn't, even within your own terms; won very little at European level, and nothing at international level. He won the English league a bunch of times as part of the the undisputed best team in the country at the time; again, so did John O'Shea and Dennis Irwin (though not as captain, it's true).

ToddDameron · 03-08-2020 2:10pm

El Tarangu wrote: »

Again, this is true of any professional sport

- no he didn't, even within your own terms; won very little at European level, and nothing at international level. He won the English league a bunch of times as part of the the undisputed best team in the country at the time; again, so did John O'Shea and Dennis Irwin (though not as captain, it's true).

True of what professional sport with the same or greater amount of registered professionals? As the greater number of professionals, the greater the competition.

That's it just ignore all the points again and mention John O' Shea and Irwin for all eternity and ignore that Keane was the biggest influence on the team as supported by the manager and his team mates.

He won the Champions League (very little?!) as part of an historic treble, more would be nice but something tells me even if he won 3 you'd say he should have won 4.

I mentioned the World Cup being the most watched event as proof of the sports popularity, I never said Keane won the World Cup. The premier league is the biggest stage in league football which is what I was referring to, and the champions league the biggest club tournament. You said earlier Keane and Saipan ruined any chance of him being considered the greatest Irish sports person for you personally, so we'll have to just agree to disagree I think.

The Tetrarch · 03-08-2020 2:20pm

Irish international caps (67)
Roy Keane is 22nd on the list

Irish international goals (9)
Roy Keane is 13th on the list (with 6 others).

Premier League appearances
Shay Given 451 [489 total incl other divisions]
John O'Shea 445 [515]
Richard Dunne 431 [515]
Damien Duff 392 [489]
Stephen Carr 377 [410]
Roy Keane 366 [473 incl 23 Cobh, 10 Celtic]
Rory Delap 359 [504]
Robbie Keane 349 [578]

English League appearances*
Denis Irwin 682
Owen Coyle 666
Dean Kiely 664
Frank Stapleton 618
Gerry Peyton 608
John Sheridan 606
David Kelly 600
Paul Butler 597
Ray Houghton 576

500 to 571
Tony Grealish; Sean O'Driscoll; David O'Leary; John Aldridge; Johnny Giles; Gary Breen; Matt Holland; Kevin Kilbane; Graham Kavanagh; Kenny Cunningham; Tommy Coyne; Gary Kelly; Tony Dunne; Mickey Evans; Alan McLoughlin.
Roy Keane 440

* incl First Division & lower divisions

ToddDameron · 03-08-2020 2:31pm

The Tetrarch wrote: »

Irish international caps (67)
Roy Keane is 22nd on the list

Irish international goals (9)
Roy Keane is 13th on the list (with 6 others).

Premier League appearances
Shay Given 451 [489 total incl other divisions]
John O'Shea 445 [515]
Richard Dunne 431 [515]
Damien Duff 392 [489]
Stephen Carr 377 [410]
Roy Keane 366 [473 incl 23 Cobh, 10 Celtic]
Rory Delap 359 [504]
Robbie Keane 349 [578]

English League appearances*
Denis Irwin 682
Owen Coyle 666
Dean Kiely 664
Frank Stapleton 618
Gerry Peyton 608
John Sheridan 606
David Kelly 600
Paul Butler 597
Ray Houghton 576

500 to 571
Tony Grealish; Sean O'Driscoll; David O'Leary; John Aldridge; Johnny Giles; Gary Breen; Matt Holland; Kevin Kilbane; Graham Kavanagh; Kenny Cunningham; Tommy Coyne; Gary Kelly; Tony Dunne; Mickey Evans; Alan McLoughlin.
Roy Keane 440

* incl First Division & lower divisions

Is there a point in there somewhere? I'm sure a lot of those players would trade some appearances for more trophies.

The Tetrarch · 03-08-2020 2:37pm

ToddDameron wrote: »

Is there a point in there somewhere? I'm sure a lot of those players would trade some appearances for more trophies.

Yes, there is a point in there somewhere.

ToddDameron · 03-08-2020 2:38pm

The Tetrarch wrote: »

Yes, there is a point in there somewhere.

Is it that appearances trump titles? Because that's a fairly stupid point isn't it?

The Tetrarch · 03-08-2020 2:44pm

ToddDameron wrote: »

Is it that appearances trump titles? Because that's a fairly stupid point isn't it?

Using the word "stupid" is a very solid point to support your case.

ToddDameron · 03-08-2020 2:47pm

The Tetrarch wrote: »

Using the word "stupid" is a very solid point to support your case.

Posting a list of appearances with no commentary is also a very solid point. Anyway, congrats to Shay Given on being Ireland's greatest ever footballer.

Tuco88 · 03-08-2020 3:18pm

I think people forget just how good D.Irwin was. One of best things about Denis was his fitness, Excellent with F.Ks/Pen his manner was his best part.

He could be put into any team of the moden game today with no issue. I like Roy Keane (Reality is he probably is Irelands greatest sports person)

But for me id take Denis all day every day. Keane suited the 90s/00s style English football. Tough and a mouth on the pitch. I'm not sure he would gel so much in todays game. Unlike Denis Mr consistent.

ToddDameron · 03-08-2020 3:28pm

Tuco88 wrote: »

I think people forget just how good D.Irwin was. One of best things about Denis was his fitness, Excellent with F.Ks/Pen his manner was his best part.

He could be put into any team of the moden game today with no issue. I like Roy Keane (Reality is he probably is Irelands greatest sports person)

But for me id take Denis all day every day. Keane suited the 90s/00s style English football. Tough and a mouth on the pitch. I'm not sure he would gel so much in todays game. Unlike Denis Mr consistent.

He's probably my favourite Irish player ever along with Brady. No idea how to post links. But this is fun:

https://youtu.be/H_uzU85htH4

partyguinness · 04-08-2020 9:48am

Mysterypunter wrote: »

He left to further his career, it's a higher standard which he would not have been able to play, as Ireland were not a test nation, by that reasoning, Roy Keane should never have left Cobh Ramblers

I get that he left to further his career and for the money. Quite happy to ditch Ireland and line out for another country under another anthem and flag to "further his career". No morals or scrupples. Never has the term a sporting traitor seemed more appropriate. Then again he is half English anyway.

Your rather feeble comparison with Roy Keane and Cobh Ramblers is just utter nonsense.

Mysterypunter · 04-08-2020 3:32pm

Ed Joyce is my next nomination, its Irish sportsperson, not Irish person who played for someone else, read the title, even if you hate Eoin Morgan, he is Irish. Rory McIlroy has to be the answer, 4 majors at a young age, and will contend for more.

Mysterypunter · 04-08-2020 3:35pm

Arkle would be in contention, but he doesn't meet the criteria of this thread, but Irish is 32 counties, and any person who has represented Ireland, eg Ray Houghton, born in Scotland, Mick McCarthy born in Barnsley, Jack Charlton got honorary citizenship so ge would be near the top.

eagle eye · 04-08-2020 3:38pm

All this Roy Keane chat when it doesn't matter. He's not even close to James Cecil Parke.
Parke is far and away Ireland's greatest ever sportsman.

Chalk McHugh · 04-08-2020 3:40pm

1 Stephen Cluxton
2 Christy Ring
3 Jack O Shea
4 Johny Giles
5 P Harrington

* a man that walks out on his country on the eve of our biggest moment doesnt deserve inclusion.

Ten of Swords · 04-08-2020 3:58pm

Closed for review, will reopen shortly

Necro · 04-08-2020 6:01pm

Mod:

partyguinness and Randy Archer do not post in this thread again.

Constant back and forth bickering cleaned up

Thread re-opened, keep it clean, on-topic and civil. Thanks

The Lost Sheep · 04-08-2020 6:11pm

Chalk McHugh wrote: »

1 Stephen Cluxton
2 Christy Ring
3 Henry Shefflin
4 Johny Giles
5 Jack O Shea
6 P Harrington

* a man that walks out on his country on the eve of our biggest moment doesnt deserve inclusion.

Thats very GAA orientated and ignores so much of what irish athletes have contributed on european/global scale.
And what Keane did in 02 cant simply overshadow every single other thing in his career.

Chalk McHugh · 04-08-2020 6:36pm

The Lost Sheep wrote: »

Thats very GAA orientated and ignores so much of what irish athletes have contributed on european/global scale.
And what Keane did in 02 cant simply overshadow every single other thing in his career.

GAA is by far the most important sport in this country and my list reflects that.

And as for keane i wouldn't have him near any list. A wannabe hard man who only a few weeks ago said somebody should be swinging punches at de gea because of a mistake live on Sky ,and all the clowns laugh and think he's hilarious. Always the hard angry man. Pathetic. Character is part of any player/sports person for me and that lad is so far lacking in any class he doesn't even enter the equation.

But hey you have your own list thats fair enough.

Water John · 05-08-2020 8:49pm

This is the Caravaggio argument. He was a skilled painter but he murdered a man, does it take from his craft?

Really liked Cantona U tube. That's because I'm from Cork but seriously Irwin was one of the greatest full backs of all time.
Make the German, Lamb the other full back on the greatest team.

The Lost Sheep · 05-08-2020 9:18pm

Chalk McHugh wrote: »

GAA is by far the most important sport in this country and my list reflects that.

And as for keane i wouldn't have him near any list. A wannabe hard man who only a few weeks ago said somebody should be swinging punches at de gea because of a mistake live on Sky ,and all the clowns laugh and think he's hilarious. Always the hard angry man. Pathetic. Character is part of any player/sports person for me and that lad is so far lacking in any class he doesn't even enter the equation.

But hey you have your own list thats fair enough.

GAA may be the biggest and most cultural irish sporting organisation but to have 2/3 of a list of best irish sportspeople of all time. no.
And Keane was far from a wannabe hard man. His actual ability as a footballer is often forgotten with people simply focusing on his determination, anger or whatever else.

irishguitarlad · 05-08-2020 9:56pm

Its all subjective anyways in the end, I will say though that the premier league marketing machine has worked brilliantly judging by some of the pósters around here.

paul71 · 06-08-2020 3:51am

irishguitarlad wrote: »

Its all subjective anyways in the end, I will say though that the premier league marketing machine has worked brilliantly judging by some of the pósters around here.

This ^^^^ at NO stage has the premier league been clearly the best, at most it was joint top for a couple of years. More often it is a distant 3rd or 4th behind varying combinations of the Bundesliga, Serie A, and/or La Liga. In fact the period of time that I would have ranked an English football league as consistantly 1 or 2 was the 70s and early 80s, prior to the ban due to Heysel stadium and pre-existing the premier league.

Nesta99 · 06-08-2020 4:32am

This is such a subjective subject. I'm cant read through all the posts but my own thinking is that you cant have one greatest Irish sports person ever. Many have contributed to the wonderful experiences us sports fans occasionally get to experience. Internationally in team sports but quite contemporary is yer Keane, McGrath, Brady examples. Boxing, McGuigan, Taylor, Collins. Athletics its Sonia O'Sullivan. We have had world class athletes in other sports, incredible results against the odds (cricket and hockey examples).

But looking back over a whole era of Irish sporting legends you have to rank Ronnie Delaney's Olympic gold. People should look up Tom Coneff, a runner. Tom Sharkey boxer. Achieving what they did without nutritionists, sports science, no PED question marks! Achievements, especially Coneff, that would still be impressive today.

Include GAA greats like Christy Ring, the more modern legends for those in certain counties. Managers that made the players.

We should never look for one best ever sports person as there are many. They would likely tell ye where to go if ye tried to say they were THE best ever. Wind up type OP, Keane is one sporting legend among many many greats from a small country that has always punched above its weight. Just imagine the legacy if there had been proper funding of our elite athletes over he years, John Tracey may have had Olympic gold in the marathon, Eamonn Coughlan turning indoor records to compete with Coe, Cram and Ovett.

Some incredible stuff and no one single great but many greats!!

YFlyer · 06-08-2020 5:06am

paul71 wrote: »

This ^^^^ at NO stage has the premier league been clearly the best, at most it was joint top for a couple of years. More often it is a distant 3rd or 4th behind varying combinations of the Bundesliga, Serie A, and/or La Liga. In fact the period of time that I would have ranked an English football league as consistantly 1 or 2 was the 70s and early 80s, prior to the ban due to Heysel stadium and pre-existing the premier league.

Last season four English clubs got to European finals.

Nesta99 · 06-08-2020 5:52am

paul71 wrote: »

This ^^^^ at NO stage has the premier league been clearly the best, at most it was joint top for a couple of years. More often it is a distant 3rd or 4th behind varying combinations of the Bundesliga, Serie A, and/or La Liga. In fact the period of time that I would have ranked an English football league as consistantly 1 or 2 was the 70s and early 80s, prior to the ban due to Heysel stadium and pre-existing the premier league.

Again subjective - best league in the world depends on what people class as 'best'. Technical ability over all sides its behind a number of leagues, Spain and Germany and maybe even smaller leagues like Portugal. Most difficult to win? Probably yes as there are a number of clubs that can compete for the title (usually) compared to Bayern's domination or Barce, Real Madrid. Most entertaining? I would say yes, certainly in comparison to the slow build up style associated with Serie A. The EPL is frenetic, high tempo, often fiesty, good number of derbys. If being the best is based on European success then like ever other league it has had its dominant periods. Wealthiest - no doubt about that when worldwide TV deals and demand are taken in to conideration. Top few clubs in Spain, Germany can splash out but not too many leagues have mid table sides that could splash 100mil ala Fulham, Everton with no obvious jump in lgue position.

All that said I do like watching lower league games, smaller leagues, League of Ireland as ye dont have some state sponsored bankrolled sides or oil tycoons with a play thing.

paul71 · 06-08-2020 7:42am

Nesta99 wrote: »

This is such a subjective subject. I'm cant read through all the posts but my own thinking is that you cant have one greatest Irish sports person ever. Many have contributed to the wonderful experiences us sports fans occasionally get to experience. Internationally in team sports but quite contemporary is yer Keane, McGrath, Brady examples. Boxing, McGuigan, Taylor, Collins. Athletics its Sonia O'Sullivan. We have had world class athletes in other sports, incredible results against the odds (cricket and hockey examples).

But looking back over a whole era of Irish sporting legends you have to rank Ronnie Delaney's Olympic gold. People should look up Tom Coneff, a runner. Tom Sharkey boxer. Achieving what they did without nutritionists, sports science, no PED question marks! Achievements, especially Coneff, that would still be impressive today.

Include GAA greats like Christy Ring, the more modern legends for those in certain counties. Managers that made the players.

We should never look for one best ever sports person as there are many. They would likely tell ye where to go if ye tried to say they were THE best ever. Wind up type OP, Keane is one sporting legend among many many greats from a small country that has always punched above its weight. Just imagine the legacy if there had been proper funding of our elite athletes over he years, John Tracey may have had Olympic gold in the marathon, Eamonn Coughlan turning indoor records to compete with Coe, Cram and Ovett.

Some incredible stuff and no one single great but many greats!!

I think you may have been the first to bring up a boxer other than Katie Taylor, I have seen mention of Eddie Irvine, but I find odd i that there has been almost no mention of a sport where we are amoung the World leaders. No Pat or Paul Eddery, or Mick Kinane.

irishguitarlad · 06-08-2020 9:04am

Nesta99 wrote: »

Again subjective - best league in the world depends on what people class as 'best'. Technical ability over all sides its behind a number of leagues, Spain and Germany and maybe even smaller leagues like Portugal. Most difficult to win? Probably yes as there are a number of clubs that can compete for the title (usually) compared to Bayern's domination or Barce, Real Madrid. Most entertaining? I would say yes, certainly in comparison to the slow build up style associated with Serie A. The EPL is frenetic, high tempo, often fiesty, good number of derbys. If being the best is based on European success then like ever other league it has had its dominant periods. Wealthiest - no doubt about that when worldwide TV deals and demand are taken in to conideration. Top few clubs in Spain, Germany can splash out but not too many leagues have mid table sides that could splash 100mil ala Fulham, Everton with no obvious jump in lgue position.

All that said I do like watching lower league games, smaller leagues, League of Ireland as ye dont have some state sponsored bankrolled sides or oil tycoons with a play thing.

You clearly haven't watched serie a in a long time, sure Juventus have dominated the last decade but the league has definitely shaken off the moniker of being slow and boring.

Nesta99 · 06-08-2020 9:17am

The list could go on and on - rowing and sailing are in a golden era. Snooker wth Doherty as world champions (Higgins and Taylor also if Ervine is in the mix, obviously George Best too). The future is bright with Thomas Barr, Gina Apke Moses, Kate o'Connor all potential medalists at senior levels if they continue to develop beyond student/youth levels.

There are probably more boxers that deserve a mention eg Carruth but the ones mentioned are truly in the world class greats categories.

Nesta99 · 06-08-2020 9:23am

irishguitarlad wrote: »

You clearly haven't watched serie a in a long time, sure Juventus have dominated the last decade but the league has definitely shaken off the moniker of being slow and boring.

Fair enough. Would it compete with the EPL as a particularly competitive and at times physical league? I find the Championship far more interesting and super competitive. Serie A has struggled to gain world-wide viewership on the level of England, where it's highly unlikely that a 10 in a row could happen.

Edgware · 06-08-2020 9:55am

If the Olympics had gone ahead we might be highlighting the O Donovan brothers or Sanita Puspure as they were in with good medal chances. I know Puspure is Latvian born but rows for Ireland.
I dont know any other female who rowed for Ireland.

06-08-2020 11:10am

Keane is disallowed for not qualifying as a sportsman:

Sportsman: a person who exhibits qualities especially esteemed in those who engage in sports, as fairness, courtesy, good temper, etc.

Keane was forthright about his motivations for wanting to inflict some pain on Haaland.

“I’d waited long enough. I ****ing hit him hard. The ball was there (I think). Take that you c*nt."

IAMAMORON · 06-08-2020 12:08pm

Simon Geoghegan, carried the Irish rugby team during a very fallow epoch. He brought a new dimension to the side step and rarely kicked for touch. A true Corinthian, his likes may never be seen again.

Maurice Fitzgerald is probably still the king of Cahirsiveen. One of the most skillful footballers from south Kerry - with respect to Jack O'Shea.

Roy Keane was a great soccer player, but he really is a terribly shallow entry in greatness. His association with television punditry has really highlighted the limits of his charisma. He is slowly becoming the pub bore of soccer punditry. He could at least take a leaf out of the books of Brady, Giles and Dunphy - who are all sadly missed on my gogglebox. It is ironic that television producers have ignored his disability to motivate dressing rooms, he is hardly quality TV either. I would rather watch a balding Alan Shearer gurning on the couch dishing out bland Geordy platitudes to ex professional nobodies. Even Gary Neville is a better watch then Roy Keane, that is his level now really. Good luck Roy.

Professional boxing is not technically a sport, it is known in business circles as " a racket ". I can stomach amateur boxing, although it has been proven to be just as corrupt - I am an avid gambler but bookmakers should not be permitted to open markets on amateur boxing - think about it.

I think Paul Kimmage has never properly received the Kudos he deserves for challenging the very ethics of a sport he loved and cared about. I am sure that chemists will always have a home on the Alps and the Pyrenees come July, but it takes proper bottle to thread a thin line on your career for the pursuit of truth. He was heckled, laughed at and despised by his former contemporaries, but he reached the finish line and uncovered a deep tumor in cycling. He should be respected and remembered for that. In my eyes he is a bigger man than Roche or Kelly, despite his love of the sticky bottle.

National Hunt jockeys are the most under respected sports professionals in the country. Jumping 7 foot high fences at 35 mph on a half tonne mammal with a brain the size of an apple takes some doing. Roy Keane should stick to breaking his opponents knees, different league.

Honorable mentions to Owen Mulligan - scorer of one of Croke Park's great goals, it needs to be seen to be believed. Davy Fitzgerald - not just for his sublime accent but for his pastime as a publican, the man has substance and can run a mile around Clarecastle in under 4 minutes- allegedly. Padraig Harrington - might never get to many celebrity dinner party invites, but 2 back to back Open Championships takes some doing, a remarkable achievement.

Finally the dignity with which Sonia O'Sullivan carried herself throughout her career should never be forgotten. She is the best thing to come out of Cork, city or county , since time began.

irishguitarlad · 06-08-2020 12:59pm

Nesta99 wrote: »

Fair enough. Would it compete with the EPL as a particularly competitive and at times physical league? I find the Championship far more interesting and super competitive. Serie A has struggled to gain world-wide viewership on the level of England, where it's highly unlikely that a 10 in a row could happen.

The EPL has an illusion of competitiveness, you have the top six and then the rest are pretty poor, Leicester(whose winning of the league will never happen again for a team outside the top 6) and Wolves had a good year this year but this is an anomaly, I can guarantee you that the big six will be re-established again next year.

Also, La Liga and Serie A struggle with viewers partly because they don't have the marketing power of the EPL and also the EPL has an advantage that English is its main language which lets be honest is the Lengua franca nowadays of the world so much more people can understand the commentary, interact with websites and news articles about the EPL.

Furthermore EPL has the money but does this work in its favour? I think a lot of players don't give a **** when they go there as they are on massive money and they have it made, they are mercenaries. That's why you often see smaller Spanish teams beat EPL teams with massive wage bills. I'd say they train harder as they are hungrier and work more on technique. I prefer La liga anyways, I think the PL is the McDonalds of football.

eagle eye · 06-08-2020 1:37pm

Amazing the amount of you just ignoring that this thing is over. No doubt that James Cecil Parke is our greatest ever sportsman.

mrkiscool2 · 06-08-2020 2:27pm

eagle eye wrote: »

Amazing the amount of you just ignoring that this thing is over. No doubt that James Cecil Parke is our greatest ever sportsman.

Because he played a lot of sports at a high level? That wasn't uncommon in the early 20th century. Would never happen today.

EmmetSpiceland · 06-08-2020 3:10pm

eagle eye wrote: »

Amazing the amount of you just ignoring that this thing is over. No doubt that James Cecil Parke is our greatest ever sportsman.

Honourable mentions to Martin Sheridan and Mabel Esmonde Cahill, of course.

eagle eye · 07-08-2020 3:03am

mrkiscool2 wrote:

Because he played a lot of sports at a high level? That wasn't uncommon in the early 20th century. Would never happen today.

Name another Irish sportsman that came close to what Parke did.
I can tell you here and now that you won't find one.

Mysterypunter · 07-08-2020 4:55am

eagle eye wrote: »

Name another Irish sportsman that came close to what Parke did.
I can tell you here and now that you won't find one.

His biography is dodgy out, it said he played first class cricket, for who? Samuel beckett played first class cricket, for trinity college. One game donkeys years ago, this parke dude doesn't register as a cricketer, won a few tap around tennis matches where only Toffs played, and headed off at the weekend to shoot pheasant, that's what the upper classes did in them times, anyway on the subject of contenders being ignored I nominate Sean Drea, again.

Why is there ever a debate about who was the best Irish Sports person ever? *READ OP*

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Why is there ever a debate about who was the best Irish Sports person ever? READ OP