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All Covid-19 measures are permanent, don't be a boiling frog!

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Comments

  • #702
    NaFirinne
    Registered Users Posts: 336 ✭✭NaFirinne


    silliussoddius wrote: »
    It's easy to make predictions about the past.


    Not when it was written thousands of years ago.


  • #703
    namloc1980
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 18,329 ✭✭✭✭namloc1980


    NaFirinne wrote: »
    Not when it was written thousands of years ago.

    Any examples?


  • #704
    NaFirinne
    Registered Users Posts: 336 ✭✭NaFirinne


    Israel becoming a nation again in 1948 is one example.

    A study into eschatology has many more examples.

    if you want to see the evidence for this there is plenty of studies on this.

    This is a very good one.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZQ0y2HqpP8g&list=PLspN3FLSM_nQwBPdOk0HS7bn4Zkt3IIIk


  • #705
    Timberrrrrrrr
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 25,646 ✭✭✭✭Timberrrrrrrr


    NaFirinne wrote: »
    Israel becoming a nation again in 1948 is one example.

    A study into eschatology has many more examples.

    if you want to see the evidence for this there is plenty of studies on this.

    This is a very good one.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZQ0y2HqpP8g&list=PLspN3FLSM_nQwBPdOk0HS7bn4Zkt3IIIk

    What is it with conspiracy theorists and youtube video's?


  • #706
    namloc1980
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 18,329 ✭✭✭✭namloc1980


    Timberrrrrrrr wrote: »
    What is it with conspiracy theorists and youtube video's?

    Extra long ones too.


  • #707
    Timberrrrrrrr
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 25,646 ✭✭✭✭Timberrrrrrrr


    namloc1980 wrote: »
    Extra long ones too.

    Yup, just finished a long day in work, last thing I want to watch is some hour long youtube vid from some random guy. I wish they would have the courtesy to timestamp the parts that are pertinent to the discussions.


  • #708
    NaFirinne
    Registered Users Posts: 336 ✭✭NaFirinne


    Timberrrrrrrr wrote: »
    What is it with conspiracy theorists and youtube video's?


    No not at all.



    That's not a conspiracy theorist



    That's the start of a very deep study with evidence.


    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZQ0y2HqpP8g&list=PLspN3FLSM_nQwBPdOk0HS7bn4Zkt3IIIk


  • #709
    Dohnjoe
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 18,193 ✭✭✭✭Dohnjoe


    NaFirinne wrote: »
    Bibical prophecies have been proven to be accurate.

    Are you suggesting book written thousands of years ago has magic powers that means it can predict the future..

    What kind of magic powers..


  • #710
    Timberrrrrrrr
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 25,646 ✭✭✭✭Timberrrrrrrr


    NaFirinne wrote: »
    No not at all.



    That's not a conspiracy theorist



    That's the start of a very deep study with evidence.


    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZQ0y2HqpP8g&list=PLspN3FLSM_nQwBPdOk0HS7bn4Zkt3IIIk

    An hour and 10 minute video, 1 of 26 of them! No thanks.


  • #711
    King Mob
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 25,327 ✭✭✭✭King Mob


    NaFirinne wrote: »
    Israel becoming a nation again in 1948 is one example.

    A study into eschatology has many more examples.

    if you want to see the evidence for this there is plenty of studies on this.

    This is a very good one.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZQ0y2HqpP8g&list=PLspN3FLSM_nQwBPdOk0HS7bn4Zkt3IIIk
    YouTube videos are not studies.


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  • #712
    harrylittle
    Registered Users Posts: 308 ✭✭harrylittle


    Timberrrrrrrr wrote: »
    What is it with conspiracy theorists and youtube video's?

    Its because main stream media wont cover the issues so it moves to the fringes and even utube is now banning the bulk of those


  • #713
    ShatterAlan
    Registered Users Posts: 2,807 ✭✭✭ShatterAlan


    NaFirinne wrote: »
    Israel becoming a nation again in 1948 is one example.

    A study into eschatology has many more examples.

    if you want to see the evidence for this there is plenty of studies on this.

    This is a very good one.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZQ0y2HqpP8g&list=PLspN3FLSM_nQwBPdOk0HS7bn4Zkt3IIIk


    It's very easy to take an event and massage it to fit in with a "prediction".


    You could probably take all of Iron Maiden's and Metallica's song lyrics and connect them to world events that happen in the future.



    (Cue treacly American accent on some lame Discovery Channel documentary)


    A worlld leader shall rise and rule over the planet. He will have come from humble beginnings. He shall make decisions solely of his own volition and other shall agree.


    As predicted in The Book of Metallica, Chapter "Wherever I May Roam", verse 2:


    "And the earth becomes my throne
    I adapt to the unknown
    Under wandering stars I've grown
    By myself but not alone
    I ask no one"


    :D


  • #714
    Dohnjoe
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 18,193 ✭✭✭✭Dohnjoe


    harrylittle wrote: »
    Its because main stream media wont cover the issues so it moves to the fringes and even utube is now banning the bulk of those

    It's always been on the fringe because it's represents fringe views. You do realise that flat-earthers, anti-vaxxers, etc use all the same excuses. Rather than face the reality that their beliefs are baseless, they pretend there is a global conspiracy against them, including the "mainstream media", social media and so on.


  • #715
    ShatterAlan
    Registered Users Posts: 2,807 ✭✭✭ShatterAlan


    Timberrrrrrrr wrote: »
    What is it with conspiracy theorists and youtube video's?


    Well, do you expect to find information that might be embarrassing to Western governments in mainstream media outlets?


    And if it does get out woe betide those who facilitated it.


  • #716
    King Mob
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 25,327 ✭✭✭✭King Mob


    ShatterAlan wrote: »
    Well, do you expect to find information that might be embarrassing to Western governments in mainstream media outlets?


    And if it does get out woe betide those who facilitated it.
    And where do you expect to find abject nonsense that isn't in the news because it's abject nonsense and it isn't true?
    Things like flat earth... Creationism... Holocaust denial...

    They all claim the same "oppression" too.


  • #717
    harrylittle
    Registered Users Posts: 308 ✭✭harrylittle


    Dohnjoe wrote: »
    It's always been on the fringe because it's represents fringe views. You do realise that flat-earthers, anti-vaxxers, etc use all the same excuses. Rather than face the reality that their beliefs are baseless, they pretend there is a global conspiracy against them, including the "mainstream media", social media and so on.

    So why the ban if its baseless


  • #718
    King Mob
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 25,327 ✭✭✭✭King Mob


    harrylittle wrote: »
    So why the ban if its baseless
    Because vulnerable people sometimes start believing false claims or the see issues as clouded when they aren't.

    Why allow obvious false claims and nonsense?
    Especially when you have cats like Alex Jones who make a mint out of them?

    Also "ban" is a bit disingenuous.
    Cranks are free to create their own platforms where they can spread whatever nonsense they like.
    Just that doesn't give them the easily accessible reach and profit of established, free to use platforms.


  • #719
    Timberrrrrrrr
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 25,646 ✭✭✭✭Timberrrrrrrr


    ShatterAlan wrote: »
    Well, do you expect to find information that might be embarrassing to Western governments in mainstream media outlets?


    And if it does get out woe betide those who facilitated it.

    But various people have cracked the secrets of these conspiracies and posted them all over the net? Isnt that the purest definition of it "getting out"?

    Has anything happened to these people?


  • #720
    King Mob
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 25,327 ✭✭✭✭King Mob


    Timberrrrrrrr wrote: »
    But various people have cracked the secrets of these conspiracies and posted them all over the net? Isnt that the purest definition of it "getting out"?

    Has anything happened to these people?
    Half of the time conspiracy theorists are pointing to clues that the conspirators put out themselves. (I.e. "they tweeted this one article, therefore that means that plan to turn the either world communist.")

    Again if the Shadowy They didn't give out so many clues, conspiracy theorists wouldn't have anything to talk about.


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  • #721
    ShatterAlan
    Registered Users Posts: 2,807 ✭✭✭ShatterAlan


    Timberrrrrrrr wrote: »
    But various people have cracked the secrets of these conspiracies and posted them all over the net? Isnt that the purest definition of it "getting out"?

    Has anything happened to these people?


    What I'm saying is if you get too close to the truth you will be silenced.


    If you actually manage to get information out with evidence your life will be made a living hell so as to discourage other who may think about growing a conscience and telling your story.


    E.g



    Assange
    Snowden
    Manning
    Sgrena


    And before people start harping on about conspiracy theorists as opposed to whistleblowers, a whistleblower is a conspiracy theorist up until he/she can produce the goods. Then they become a whistleblower. And a conspiracy theorist is just that until the conspiracy is exposed and then it becomes a scandal.


  • #722
    Dohnjoe
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 18,193 ✭✭✭✭Dohnjoe


    ShatterAlan wrote: »
    What I'm saying is if you get too close to the truth you will be silenced.


    If you actually manage to get information out with evidence your life will be made a living hell so as to discourage other who may think about growing a conscience and telling your story.


    E.g



    Assange
    Snowden
    Manning
    Sgrena


    And before people start harping on about conspiracy theorists as opposed to whistleblowers, a whistleblower is a conspiracy theorist up until he/she can produce the goods. Then they become a whistleblower. And a conspiracy theorist is just that until the conspiracy is exposed and then it becomes a scandal.

    Whistle-blowing is common, from workplaces, to industry, right up to government and national level. Snowden, Assange, Manning are all separate cases and are controversial because they broke laws to do it.

    Whistle-blowing isn't automatically justified in every case, each case can be different and has to be judged on it's own merit.

    In the case of e.g. Snowden, the NSA surveillance was already known about, but he just furnished the details which weren't so well known. He also confirmed he found no evidence of traditional "popular" conspiracies like moon landing hoax, aliens, etc.


  • #723
    King Mob
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 25,327 ✭✭✭✭King Mob


    ShatterAlan wrote: »
    And before people start harping on about conspiracy theorists as opposed to whistleblowers, a whistleblower is a conspiracy theorist up until he/she can produce the goods. Then they become a whistleblower. And a conspiracy theorist is just that until the conspiracy is exposed and then it becomes a scandal.
    No. This is disingenuous.
    Whistleblowers are not conspiracy theorists.
    They do not spend all day reading conspiracy websites, watching youtube videos and gathering clues to crack to conspiracy then post it to youtube or some rando blog or sell interviews to Alex jones..

    They start with the evidence they have. Then the go to the mainstream media with their evidence.

    This is what all the guys you pointed to did.


  • #724
    ShatterAlan
    Registered Users Posts: 2,807 ✭✭✭ShatterAlan


    Dohnjoe wrote: »
    Whistle-blowing is common, from workplaces, to industry, right up to government and national level. Snowden, Assange, Manning are all separate cases and are controversial because they broke laws to do it.

    Whistle-blowing isn't automatically justified in every case, each case can be different and has to be judged on it's own merit.

    In the case of e.g. Snowden, the NSA surveillance was already known about, but he just furnished the details which weren't so well known. He also confirmed he found no evidence of traditional "popular" conspiracies like moon landing hoax, aliens, etc.


    What law did Assange break? And we're not talking about moon landings or any of that gibberish, DJ, so please stop bringing it up.


  • #725
    Dohnjoe
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 18,193 ✭✭✭✭Dohnjoe


    ShatterAlan wrote: »
    What law did Assange break?

    He's indicted on 17 charges, he also broke bail.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indictment_and_arrest_of_Julian_Assange#:~:text=information%20about%20Assange.-,Charges%20under%20the%20Espionage%20Act,of%20170%20years%20in%20prison.


  • #726
    Fodla
    Closed Accounts Posts: 281 ✭✭Fodla


    I hear Mr Ryan from WHO said we'd need to continue to socially distance after being vaccinated. All COVID-19 measures are indeed permanent.


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  • #727
    Timberrrrrrrr
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 25,646 ✭✭✭✭Timberrrrrrrr


    Fodla wrote: »
    I hear Mr Ryan from WHO said we'd need to continue to socially distance after being vaccinated. All COVID-19 measures are indeed permanent.

    Link to where he said this?


  • #728
    Dohnjoe
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 18,193 ✭✭✭✭Dohnjoe


    Fodla wrote: »
    I hear Mr Ryan from WHO said we'd need to continue to socially distance after being vaccinated. All COVID-19 measures are indeed permanent.

    (If) he said he would socially distance, how have you decided that all Covid-19 measures are permanent? explain your logic there..

    You do realise lockdown measures were drastically reduced over the summer right? how do you explain that?


  • #729
    ShatterAlan
    Registered Users Posts: 2,807 ✭✭✭ShatterAlan


    Dohnjoe wrote: »
    He's indicted on 17 charges, he also broke bail.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indictment_and_arrest_of_Julian_Assange#:~:text=information%20about%20Assange.-,Charges%20under%20the%20Espionage%20Act,of%20170%20years%20in%20prison.




    Now we're getting down to the heart of the matter.


    And the breach of bail was for?


    If it was that simple then why not simply issue a bench-warrant?


    Have you EVER encountered someone who has been locked in an embassy for 8 years because they breached a bail stipulation?

    Snowden has emphatically pronounced that he would return to the US to fce his accusers IF they could guarantee that he would face a a fair trial and not be tortured, like Chelsea Manning. Seems fair to me...except the nasties in Washington refuse to give that guarantee.

    Do you blame him?



    (this will all be moved to IMHO soon anyway) :-))


  • #730
    Fodla
    Closed Accounts Posts: 281 ✭✭Fodla


    Timberrrrrrrr wrote: »
    Link to where he said this?

    He said and so did his colleague:

    "Maria van Kerkhove, head of the WHO’s emerging diseases and zoonosis unit, said the vaccine will add another piece to a “toolkit” of public health measures that will be necessary to thwart the virus’ spread.

    Other tools include drugs to treat severely ill patients and adherence to recommended public health measures like social distancing, mask wearing, avoiding crowds and hand hygiene."

    Sounds permanent to me.


  • #731
    Timberrrrrrrr
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 25,646 ✭✭✭✭Timberrrrrrrr


    Fodla wrote: »
    He said and so did his colleague:

    "Maria van Kerkhove, head of the WHO’s emerging diseases and zoonosis unit, said the vaccine will add another piece to a “toolkit” of public health measures that will be necessary to thwart the virus’ spread.

    Other tools include drugs to treat severely ill patients and adherence to recommended public health measures like social distancing, mask wearing, avoiding crowds and hand hygiene."

    Sounds permanent to me.

    You have not answered the question I asked though, you have linked to something and someone totally different.

    Please link to where Ryan said what you claim he said.
    I hear Mr Ryan from WHO said we'd need to continue to socially distance after being vaccinated. All COVID-19 measures are indeed permanent.


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  • #732
    Fodla
    Closed Accounts Posts: 281 ✭✭Fodla


    Timberrrrrrrr wrote: »
    You have not answered the question I asked though, you have linked to something and someone totally different.

    Please link to where Ryan said what you claim he said.

    He didn't say they were permanent, but his talk of vaccines complementing the current measures suggests they are.


  • #733
    Timberrrrrrrr
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 25,646 ✭✭✭✭Timberrrrrrrr


    Fodla wrote: »
    He didn't say they were permanent, but his talk of vaccines complementing the current measures suggests they are.

    Jesus you lads are hard work!

    You said
    I hear Mr Ryan from WHO said we'd need to continue to socially distance after being vaccinated.

    Please link to where he said this, its not rocket science.


  • #734
    Ted_YNWA
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 71,799 ✭✭✭✭Ted_YNWA


    Fodla - There is a restriction on people who have made less than 50 posts & they cannot post links. At the start this was a valid reason for not posting one.

    Now you are able to do it & please do so, or it makes your proof "they are doing something" meaningless.

    I could easily say that I heard Mike Ryan has invested in Pfizer & will be pushing this as the Number 1 vaccine, but the price will be doubled.

    But this is a load of rubbish if I don't back it up in someway.


  • #735
    Fodla
    Closed Accounts Posts: 281 ✭✭Fodla


    Timberrrrrrrr wrote: »
    Jesus you lads are hard work!

    You said



    Please link to where he said this, its not rocket science.

    https://www.rte.ie/news/ireland/2020/1126/1180639-mike-ryan/

    From 4 minutes on.


  • #736
    Tea drinker
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,817 ✭✭✭Tea drinker


    Dohnjoe wrote: »
    In the case of e.g. Snowden, the NSA surveillance was already known about, but he just furnished the details which weren't so well known. He also confirmed he found no evidence of traditional "popular" conspiracies like moon landing hoax, aliens, etc.
    I thought the mass surveillance wasn't known about, in fact NSA director Clapper lied to congress about it, in itself a crime he should have been convicted for.
    Accepting this behaviour leads to more of it.
    https://mashable.com/2014/06/05/edward-snowden-revelations/?europe=true


  • #737
    Dohnjoe
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 18,193 ✭✭✭✭Dohnjoe


    Tea drinker wrote: »
    I thought the mass surveillance wasn't known about

    It was known about, but we didn't know the full extent and details, which were furnished directly by an insider. Likewise Extraordinary Rendition was known about post 9/11 and reported on, but more concrete details only came out later.


  • #738
    ShatterAlan
    Registered Users Posts: 2,807 ✭✭✭ShatterAlan


    Fauci predicts higher Covid levels after thanksgiving dinners.


    https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-55126003


    So why didn't this dildo cancel Thanksgiving?


    He predicted a pandemic in 2018 .....the man obviously has a crystal ball.


  • #739
    Dohnjoe
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 18,193 ✭✭✭✭Dohnjoe


    ShatterAlan wrote: »
    Fauci predicts higher Covid levels after thanksgiving dinners.


    https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-55126003


    So why didn't this dildo cancel Thanksgiving?

    He doesn't have any such power. He did issues warnings and guidelines about it.


  • #740
    King Mob
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 25,327 ✭✭✭✭King Mob


    ShatterAlan wrote: »
    Fauci predicts higher Covid levels after thanksgiving dinners.


    https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-55126003


    So why didn't this dildo cancel Thanksgiving?


    He predicted a pandemic in 2018 .....the man obviously has a crystal ball.
    Again what's your explanation for this?

    Are you implying that he is incompetent?
    Or are you implying that this is part of a conspiracy somehow?


  • #741
    ShatterAlan
    Registered Users Posts: 2,807 ✭✭✭ShatterAlan


    Dohnjoe wrote: »
    He doesn't have any such power. He did issues warnings and guidelines about it.




    I guess you missed the sarcasm.


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  • #742
    Caraibh
    Closed Accounts Posts: 140 ✭✭Caraibh


    I agree with the OP that they are all permanent. The Health Minister of France said as much the other day when he said that he couldn't say whether masks and social distancing would have to continue post-vaccine or not.


  • #743
    Dohnjoe
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 18,193 ✭✭✭✭Dohnjoe


    Caraibh wrote: »
    I agree with the OP that they are all permanent. The Health Minister of France said as much the other day when he said that he couldn't say whether masks and social distancing would have to continue post-vaccine or not.

    Masks and social distancing are likely to continue for a period after the vaccine comes out. Measures aren't permanent, many were removed or reduced this summer.

    Please explain why these measures will be permanent, hundreds of pages of posts on this and still no one has explained that.


  • #744
    Caraibh
    Closed Accounts Posts: 140 ✭✭Caraibh


    Dohnjoe wrote: »
    Masks and social distancing are likely to continue for a period after the vaccine comes out. Measures aren't permanent, many were removed or reduced this summer.

    Please explain why these measures will be permanent, hundreds of pages of posts on this and still no one has explained that.

    From an article in the Irish Examiner:

    "France’s health minister says his country is readying to start administering Covid-19 vaccines in late December.

    But Olivier Veran has warned that people will still have to wear masks and keep their distance even after vaccines are widely available.

    Mr Veran said he cannot say yet whether mass vaccination “will allow us to get rid of this virus and totally return to our past lives”, because it is not clear exactly how long protection from the eventual vaccines will last."

    That sounds permanent to me.


  • #745
    Trigger
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,557 ✭✭✭✭Trigger


    Caraibh wrote: »
    From an article in the Irish Examiner:

    "France’s health minister says his country is readying to start administering Covid-19 vaccines in late December.

    But Olivier Veran has warned that people will still have to wear masks and keep their distance even after vaccines are widely available.

    Mr Veran said he cannot say yet whether mass vaccination “will allow us to get rid of this virus and totally return to our past lives”, because it is not clear exactly how long protection from the eventual vaccines will last."

    That sounds permanent to me.

    No, that sounds like he is unsure as there is no data to work on at the moment until the vaccine has been put out there on a big enough scale to allow data to show if these will be needed going forward


  • #746
    Caraibh
    Closed Accounts Posts: 140 ✭✭Caraibh


    Trigger wrote: »
    No, that sounds like he is unsure as there is no data to work on at the moment until the vaccine has been put out there on a big enough scale to allow data to show if these will be needed going forward

    But imagine taking a vaccine and still having to cover your face everywhere and keep your distance from people. It'd be awful.


  • #747
    Dohnjoe
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 18,193 ✭✭✭✭Dohnjoe


    Caraibh wrote: »
    From an article in the Irish Examiner:

    "France’s health minister says his country is readying to start administering Covid-19 vaccines in late December.

    But Olivier Veran has warned that people will still have to wear masks and keep their distance even after vaccines are widely available.

    Mr Veran said he cannot say yet whether mass vaccination “will allow us to get rid of this virus and totally return to our past lives”, because it is not clear exactly how long protection from the eventual vaccines will last."

    That sounds permanent to me.

    To translate for you: We may never get rid of the virus fully (like the seasonal flu) and we may not return to our past lives fully (e.g. more working from home)


  • #748
    Timberrrrrrrr
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 25,646 ✭✭✭✭Timberrrrrrrr


    Caraibh wrote: »
    But imagine taking a vaccine and still having to cover your face everywhere and keep your distance from people. It'd be awful.

    Why? Its what people do at the moment, if we have to do it for another 6 months or so then so be it.


  • #749
    Dohnjoe
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 18,193 ✭✭✭✭Dohnjoe


    Caraibh wrote: »
    But imagine taking a vaccine and still having to cover your face everywhere and keep your distance from people. It'd be awful.

    You will still have to do this for awhile. Not everyone will get the vaccine on day 1, it will takes many months.


  • #750
    Caraibh
    Closed Accounts Posts: 140 ✭✭Caraibh


    Trigger wrote: »
    No, that sounds like he is unsure as there is no data to work on at the moment until the vaccine has been put out there on a big enough scale to allow data to show if these will be needed going forward

    Yes, but needed for how long? Don't forget that this was supposed to be a two week lockdown. There's nothing in what he said to suggest that he doesn't mean forever.


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  • #751
    The Nal
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,024 ✭✭✭✭The Nal


    Where is the logic for "them" in a permanent lockdown?

    Again, the fear and paranoia based on wild speculation is baffling.


This discussion has been closed.
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