Uber

stonebob · 03-01-2018 6:20am #1

Just back from London where I used Airbnb and Uber with great success......Uber was half the price of a taxi and there seemed to be one around every corner ..everyone loves them ..I know there's an argument about regulation of drivers but there's a lot of dodgy taxi drivers too just read the papers ...the drivers were polite ..spotless cars..and they don't tap on..

usernamegoes · 03-01-2018 8:57pm

stonebob wrote: »

Just back from London where I used Airbnb and Uber with great success......Uber was half the price of a taxi and there seemed to be one around every corner ..everyone loves them ..I know there's an argument about regulation of drivers but there's a lot of dodgy taxi drivers too just read the papers ...the drivers were polite ..spotless cars..and they don't tap on..

There's a thread on here basically people want protectionism for taxis from competition.

I completely disagree and far prefer Uber. Use it all the time when travelling. The convenience of paying by card is also great.

GerardKeating · 03-01-2018 11:26pm

usernamegoes wrote: »

There's a thread on here basically people want protectionism for taxis from competition.

I completely disagree and far prefer Uber. Use it all the time when travelling.

If Uber want to compete with Taxi, it has to be fair, do Uber drivers have the same level of public liability insurance as Taxi's

usernamegoes wrote: »

The convenience of paying by card is also great.

Not paid cash for a taxi in a few years, many/most take cards now.

Cookie_Monster · 04-01-2018 12:29am

usernamegoes wrote: »

There's a thread on here basically people want protectionism for taxis from competition.

no, just a level playing field in terms of licensing, insurance and oversight.

Stephen15 · 04-01-2018 2:17am

The one thing I will give the UK credit for is the fact that the licensed taxis (not minicabs) there perform an excellent professional service with decent cars which are all wheelchair accessible and professional drivers that know where they're going.

A London taxi driver has to do 4 years of training to learn all the streets around the city so I can understand why they would be pissed with Uber drivers rocking up without any training or proper vetting.

end of the road · 04-01-2018 3:31am

usernamegoes wrote: »

basically people want protectionism for taxis from competition.

no, no we don't. taxis already have competition in the form of other taxis. uber is a taxi service and is able to be subject to the same regulations, and should have those regulations imposed on it as it's a taxi service.

Dravokivich · 04-01-2018 11:06am

People have been assaulted in fake taxis in this country to such a degree that about 10 / 12 years ago there was a big campaign to get people to check what they are getting into. NTA released an app within the last 3 years that people can check the Taxi Licence No. on the board against the driver in the car.

Was this hysteria?

Cookie_Monster · 04-01-2018 8:42pm

Stephen15 wrote: »

A London taxi driver has to do 4 years of training to learn all the streets around the city so I can understand why they would be pissed with Uber drivers rocking up without any training or proper vetting.

In the past that mattered but not any more with phone, mapping, traffic monitoring and GPS technology

Stephen15 · 04-01-2018 9:38pm

Cookie_Monster wrote: »

In the past that mattered but not any more with phone, mapping, traffic monitoring and GPS technology

But there were actual physical maps back in the day. A taxi driver is a professional driver and a professional driver should know where they are going without relying on GPS it would be like a plumber looking up how to fix a sink.

Losty Dublin · 04-01-2018 11:04pm

Stephen15 wrote: »

But there were actual physical maps back in the day. A taxi driver is a professional driver and a professional driver should know where they are going without relying on GPS it would be like a plumber looking up how to fix a sink.

Even today, most London cabbies won't use GPS as it's no better than their own know how.

shanec1928 · 04-01-2018 11:10pm

Cookie_Monster wrote: »

In the past that mattered but not any more with phone, mapping, traffic monitoring and GPS technology

Their was a show on ch4 around September time I think which was all about passing the exams to become a London cabbie. Looked crazy with people taking 4+ years to pass.

nilescraneo · 04-01-2018 11:10pm

Yes, Dublin needs MORE cars on the roads. That will solve our traffic and shoddy public transport problems!

bk · 05-01-2018 2:13am

Cookie_Monster wrote: »

no, just a level playing field in terms of licensing, insurance and oversight.

You mean exactly what all Uber drivers in London have, what with them all being fully licensed and insured hackneys.

Stephen15 wrote: »

But there were actual physical maps back in the day. A taxi driver is a professional driver and a professional driver should know where they are going without relying on GPS it would be like a plumber looking up how to fix a sink.

What is great about London is that you, the passenger have a choice:

You can select a hackney, which might have to use GPS, but is cheaper or a more expensive Taxi with a driver with "The Knowledge".

Choice is a good thing for consumers.

Uber in London is very different to the US. It is just hackneys ordered by app, like we use to have here pre-deregulation.

Even the US version of Uber is little different then the old hackney model we had here pre-deregulation, just with an app.

Cookie_Monster · 05-01-2018 2:21am

Stephen15 wrote: »

But there were actual physical maps back in the day. A taxi driver is a professional driver and a professional driver should know where they are going without relying on GPS it would be like a plumber looking up how to fix a sink.

we're those physical maps able to calculate routes for you in fraction of a second, were they able to access live traffic updates and road closures, were they able to auto update themselves with changing road layouts, we're they able to instantly tell you where you are already?

Plumbers look at instruction manuals when installing items, they don't just fire them into the benchtop willy nilly. Exactly the same way car mechanics now can access factory specs and diagrams on a laptop which is plugged into the vehicle reporting the errors rather than pulling apart the car trying to guess the problem these days

Dravokivich · 05-01-2018 1:58pm

hmm I don't have much invested in the discussion of Uber over Taxis, but local knowledge is a must. GPS should only be used as a suggestion. Both my Garmin GPS fully uptodate and Google maps on my phone prefer to send me to junctions i can't use, or the wrong way down roads around Fairview. I've seen people who followed pathways i was previously suggested by Google, who didn't seem to take the road signage into account.

So i wouldn't be eager to see GPS as a positive. Especially when i regularly see taxi drivers here have GPS devices or Apps present.

usernamegoes · 06-01-2018 12:29am

GerardKeating wrote: »

If Uber want to compete with Taxi, it has to be fair, do Uber drivers have the same level of public liability insurance as Taxi's

Not paid cash for a taxi in a few years, many/most take cards now.

Yes they have full public liability insurance, and I'd have no problem with a law saying all Uber-style operators must have insurance for their trips.

I take taxis almost daily, this is not my experience at all! Even if you do find one they will complain and moan if you ask to pay by card. Also what comfort do I have if I hail a cab on the street that it will have a card machine?

Cookie_Monster wrote: »

no, just a level playing field in terms of licensing, insurance and oversight.

So you'd be fine with an Uber London-style arrangement? Uber in london are licensed, insured, and under supervision.

end of the road wrote: »

no, no we don't. taxis already have competition in the form of other taxis. uber is a taxi service and is able to be subject to the same regulations, and should have those regulations imposed on it as it's a taxi service.

Yeah, that's not competition and if you don't know that there's little hope left.

end of the road · 06-01-2018 2:10am

usernamegoes wrote: »

Yes they have full public liability insurance, and I'd have no problem with a law saying all Uber-style operators must have insurance for their trips.

I take taxis almost daily, this is not my experience at all! Even if you do find one they will complain and moan if you ask to pay by card. Also what comfort do I have if I hail a cab on the street that it will have a card machine?

So you'd be fine with an Uber London-style arrangement? Uber in london are licensed, insured, and under supervision.

Yeah, that's not competition and if you don't know that there's little hope left.

yes, it is competition. taxis compete with other taxis, ubber is a taxi service, ergo competition

MJohnston · 06-01-2018 2:44am

What do people think is unfair or unsuitable about current Irish taxi regulation that they want Uber to bypass it?

Losty Dublin · 06-01-2018 4:45am

usernamegoes wrote: »

Yes they have full public liability insurance, and I'd have no problem with a law saying all Uber-style operators must have insurance for their trips.

But they are not insured to carry fare paying passengers. No insurance company operating in the Irish market will issue a PSV policy on a car or to a driver that has not got a PSV. There is no way around this no matter what way Uber will try to word it.

Cookie_Monster · 06-01-2018 5:40am

usernamegoes wrote: »

So you'd be fine with an Uber London-style arrangement? Uber in london are licensed, insured, and under supervision.

yes, as long as the income earned is also being recorded and taxed correctly.

usernamegoes · 06-01-2018 9:36am

Losty Dublin wrote: »

But they are not insured to carry fare paying passengers. No insurance company operating in the Irish market will issue a PSV policy on a car or to a driver that has not got a PSV. There is no way around this no matter what way Uber will try to word it.

Uber insure the trips. You are spreading a myth. Even if they didn't I'd have no problem with a law requiring them to insure the trip.

listermint · 06-01-2018 9:42am

Ah Uber the great race to the bottom for wages, Uber they company that wants to drive everyone else out of the business and then hike prices once it had the monopoly.

This is the future folks I'm sure everyone wants an Uberesque company moving into their job sector forcing form wages and pushing automation.

Superb

Cookie_Monster · 06-01-2018 11:25am

usernamegoes wrote: »

Uber insure the trips. You are spreading a myth. Even if they didn't I'd have no problem with a law requiring them to insure the trip.

so how are you covered for the rest of the time?, not working etc because your insurance policy won't cover you full stop if you are at any point using the vehicle for reward...

usernamegoes · 06-01-2018 12:59pm

Cookie_Monster wrote: »

so how are you covered for the rest of the time?, not working etc because your insurance policy won't cover you full stop if you are at any point using the vehicle for reward...

Well then they're breaking the law. No one is arguing for no insurance. Have a law which requires proper insurance. I don't see the problem

Amirani · 06-01-2018 1:01pm

MJohnston wrote: »

What do people think is unfair or unsuitable about current Irish taxi regulation that they want Uber to bypass it?

I think it's pretty poor that taxis here haven't been mandated to accept electronic payment yet as they have been in London.

howiya · 06-01-2018 1:41pm

Amirani wrote: »

I think it's pretty poor that taxis here haven't been mandated to accept electronic payment yet as they have been in London.

It's an even poorer reflection on taxi drivers that they would have to be mandated to accept electronic payments.

Self employed business people turning away customers because they can't facilitate their method of payment..

You can get a sum up card reader for €39 and taxi drivers are even allowed pass on the transaction fee up to a maximum of 5% of the fare.

That being said there are plenty of options to ensure you get a taxi that can accept card payments with all the apps these days. I use mytaxi coming home from work every night for that very reason.

markodaly · 06-01-2018 1:57pm

MJohnston wrote: »

What do people think is unfair or unsuitable about current Irish taxi regulation that they want Uber to bypass it?

The 6,300 euro fee for the 'privilege' of operating a taxi?

markodaly · 06-01-2018 2:01pm

Cookie_Monster wrote: »

so how are you covered for the rest of the time?, not working etc because your insurance policy won't cover you full stop if you are at any point using the vehicle for reward...

This was dealt with already in another thread which you ignored. Uber in the UK insure the vehicle and passengers. The same in Australia. In fact it appears to be the case generally. In the US, it is different but there are specific insurance policies available which one can purchase to add ride-sharing capabilities to your own personal policy as just one example.

markodaly · 06-01-2018 2:03pm

listermint wrote: »

Ah Uber the great race to the bottom for wages, Uber they company that wants to drive everyone else out of the business and then hike prices once it had the monopoly.

This is the future folks I'm sure everyone wants an Uberesque company moving into their job sector forcing form wages and pushing automation.

Superb

Even though companies like Lyft who are doing better in the US than Uber would just come in and keep prices down? Yes, scaremongering is strong in this one.

Peer to peer economy is here to stay, good luck putting that genie back in the bottle. Maybe we should go back to basket weaving?

markodaly · 06-01-2018 2:06pm

As an aside, if people think that regular taxis are safer than ride-sharing.

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/world/uk/concern-over-release-of-london-black-cab-rapist-john-worboys-1.3347256

Last night Britain’s Crown Prosecution Service revealed that while it had prosecuted Worboys for attacks on 14 women, it had dropped cases involving three other women, even though it assessed they “passed the evidential test”, because there were sufficient counts “to enable the judge to impose an appropriate sentence”.

After he was jailed in 2009, police also told prosecutors about another 19 alleged victims, but the CPS advised that it would be in the public interest only to prosecute allegations of rape.

Some sources suggest his list of victims could be as high as 102.

Think Ireland is different?

https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/criminal-taxi-drivers-could-lose-licences-within-weeks-30216696.html

It's believed that 6,000 taxi drivers have a criminal conviction. The legislation will attempt to remove murderers, rapists and former IRA members from the industry.

MJohnston · 06-01-2018 2:15pm

markodaly wrote: »

As an aside, if people think that regular taxis are safer than ride-sharing.

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/world/uk/concern-over-release-of-london-black-cab-rapist-john-worboys-1.3347256

Some sources suggest his list of victims could be as high as 102.

Think Ireland is different?

https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/criminal-taxi-drivers-could-lose-licences-within-weeks-30216696.html

You're making an argument for more regulation, not less.

howiya · 06-01-2018 2:22pm

markodaly wrote: »

The 6,300 euro fee for the 'privilege' of operating a taxi?

I assume you're referring to the entry cost rather than the annual operating cost of the licence.

Since the NTA aren't currently accepting new licence applications in this category the €6,300 fee isn't relevant to the argument. The only new taxi licences available cost €170.

So to repeat the question that you gave the above answer to,

What do people think is unfair or unsuitable about current Irish taxi regulation that they want Uber to bypass it?

markodaly · 06-01-2018 2:30pm

howiya wrote: »

I assume you're referring to the entry cost rather than the annual operating cost of the licence.

Since the NTA aren't currently accepting new licence applications in this category the €6,300 fee isn't relevant to the argument. The only new taxi licences available cost €170.

Which means you need to have a wheelchair accessible car to avail of this taxi license, you left out that bit. Such a car would cost well north of 20,000 euro if not more.

So to repeat the question that you gave the above answer to,

What do people think is unfair or unsuitable about current Irish taxi regulation that they want Uber to bypass it?

You answered this yourself, the fact that its a closed shop, that even if there was a license available you had to fork out €6,300 but alas even these are not available anymore. If someone wants to drive a taxi or operate a ride sharing car, they should be allowed to once they have a full clean license, their car is road worthy and they don't have a criminal record. Such a license could be granted for €100.

markodaly · 06-01-2018 2:37pm

MJohnston wrote: »

You're making an argument for more regulation, not less.

Not at all. People use regulation as a way to justify existing market practice that remain inefficient, old and out of date. The argument against uber or similar ride sharing services I hear is often one about passenger safety yet, no one questions how safe are our existing taxi's and has there been some proper research into if one is actually safer then the other.

Tell me this, it is safer for a woman on their own to hail a cab on a street corner at 2:30 am, or is it safer for them to use a ride sharing app to order a ride, whereby the driver, the car and the journey itself is completely mapped, logged and recorded.

Ridesharing apps like Uber have made taxi's think more about leveraging technology to increase passenger safety. Let me put it this way, would a mytaxi app be used as much if Uber or Lyft had not made the idea of it mainstream?

MJohnston · 06-01-2018 2:57pm

markodaly wrote: »

Not at all. People use regulation as a way to justify existing market practice that remain inefficient, old and out of date. The argument against uber or similar ride sharing services I hear is often one about passenger safety yet, no one questions how safe are our existing taxi's and has there been some proper research into if one is actually safer then the other.

For me it's only a small bit about passenger safety, but mostly it's about fairness of competition. You either deregulate all taxis, or Uber must adhere to regulations also. There is no middle ground that works here.

Tell me this, it is safer for a woman on their own to hail a cab on a street corner at 2:30 am, or is it safer for them to use a ride sharing app to order a ride, whereby the driver, the car and the journey itself is completely mapped, logged and recorded.

I think it's safest, out of all the taxi options, to use a regulated taxi hailed through an app like MyTaxi where the journey is mapped, logged, and recorded.

Ridesharing apps like Uber have made taxi's think more about leveraging technology to increase passenger safety. Let me put it this way, would a mytaxi app be used as much if Uber or Lyft had not made the idea of it mainstream?

Given that MyTaxi, aka Hailo, launched in Ireland at least 2 years prior to Uber, I can answer "yes" to that with absolute certainty.

markodaly · 06-01-2018 3:23pm

MJohnston wrote: »

For me it's only a small bit about passenger safety, but mostly it's about fairness of competition. You either deregulate all taxis, or Uber must adhere to regulations also. There is no middle ground that works here.

Yet you fully support the status quo where by a would be taxi operator or ride sharer has to pay €6,300 for a taxi license, which at the moment does not even exist. Its extortion, dressed up as regulating the taxi industry for the betterment of well existing taxi drivers.

I think it's safest, out of all the taxi options, to use a regulated taxi hailed through an app like MyTaxi where the journey is mapped, logged, and recorded.

Well, that is traditional taxis jumping on technology and innovation pioneered by the likes of Uber and Lyft. If you have stats or peer reviewed research that says using an app to hail a taxi over an uber is safer then by all means post it. I have never found evidence to suggest this is the case, and I have looked.

Given that MyTaxi, aka Hailo, launched in Ireland at least 2 years prior to Uber, I can answer "yes" to that with absolute certainty.

Ah yes, Ireland lives in a vacuum and your comment here is a perfect illustration of the same. You are also wrong.

Uber was founded in 2009
MyTaxi app was first introduced in Hamburg in 2010
Lyft started in 2012
Hailo was founded in 2011 in London.

Uber was the first out of the blocks with this technology and others quickly followed.

The Irish taxi industry just piggybacked on this tech, there was no innovation necessary or needed. They did know however, if they did not started to use this tech, then someone or Uber or Lyft would have seen Ireland as fertile grounds for market share capture. The taxi industry here thinks they are great and modern of course that they use this tech now but it was done to stave off competition and of course give some PR as if they are the paragons of innovation.

Dont piss on my leg and tell me its raining.

LuckyLloyd · 06-01-2018 3:39pm

The last point is immaterial to what you originally said. In the Irish context, Hailo was their introduction to the whole thing. Uber had nothing to do with its widespread adoption here.

MJohnston · 06-01-2018 3:39pm

markodaly wrote: »

Yet you fully support the status quo where by a would be taxi operator or ride sharer has to pay €6,300 for a taxi license, which at the moment does not even exist. Its extortion, dressed up as regulating the taxi industry for the betterment of well existing taxi drivers.

I made no argument one way or the other about the current licensing requirements or costs. I simply said that they exist, and Uber must follow them too, otherwise they create illegally unfair competition in the marketplace.

Well, that is traditional taxis jumping on technology and innovation pioneered by the likes of Uber and Lyft. If you have stats or peer reviewed research that says using an app to hail a taxi over an uber is safer then by all means post it. I have never found evidence to suggest this is the case, and I have looked.

It's an educated assumption - you claim that an app that tracks journeys and logs everything is safer than not having an app, I agree with that.

You also say that it costs €6300 to get a taxi license, which in and of itself is a barrier to becoming a taxi driver, and it seems to me that this cannot be less safe than a situation where you're getting into a car with a person who has paid 0 to become an Uber driver (note that I'm not saying that cost barrier makes things completely safe, just at least equally safe, or perhaps even slightly more safe, than without).

Ah yes, Ireland lives in a vacuum and your comment here is a perfect illustration of the same. You are also wrong.

Uber was founded in 2009
MyTaxi app was first introduced in Hamburg in 2010
Lyft started in 2012
Hailo was founded in 2011 in London.

Uber was the first out of the blocks with this technology and others quickly followed.

That's all well and good, but you specifically asked "would a mytaxi app be used as much if Uber or Lyft had not made the idea of it mainstream".

My response is simply that Uber did not make the idea mainstream in Ireland, because a lot of people have still not now even heard of Uber long after it has launched here, and certainly most had never heard of it before it launched.

The Irish taxi industry just piggybacked on this tech, there was no innovation necessary or needed. They did know however, if they did not started to use this tech, then someone or Uber or Lyft would have seen Ireland as fertile grounds for market share capture. The taxi industry here thinks they are great and modern of course that they use this tech now but it was done to stave off competition and of course give some PR as if they are the paragons of innovation.

Dont piss on my leg and tell me its raining.

This just seems like a rant - I'm not in the taxi industry whatsoever, nor do I particularly like taxis, but I can only say what I see from the outside.

markodaly · 06-01-2018 4:01pm

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

The last point is immaterial to what you originally said. In the Irish context, Hailo was their introduction to the whole thing. Uber had nothing to do with its widespread adoption here.

Apart from being the world leaders in app based taxi/ride-sharing ordering, nothing at all.
:pac:

end of the road · 06-01-2018 4:01pm

markodaly wrote: »

Which means you need to have a wheelchair accessible car to avail of this taxi license, you left out that bit. Such a car would cost well north of 20,000 euro if not more.

such cars are very likely going to eventually become mandatory so your argument isn't valid.

markodaly wrote: »

You answered this yourself, the fact that its a closed shop, that even if there was a license available you had to fork out €6,300 but alas even these are not available anymore. If someone wants to drive a taxi or operate a ride sharing car, they should be allowed to once they have a full clean license, their car is road worthy and they don't have a criminal record. Such a license could be granted for €100.

there is no closed shop. there is a licence availible with a fee of 170 euro. perfectly fine and affordible.

markodaly · 06-01-2018 4:21pm

MJohnston wrote: »

I made no argument one way or the other about the current licensing requirements or costs. I simply said that they exist, and Uber must follow them too, otherwise they create illegally unfair competition in the marketplace.

Yes, we are so concerned with unfair competition, you have no problem or comment to make on unfair regulation with makes the entire industry unfair from the get go. Funny that.

It's an educated assumption - you claim that an app that tracks journeys and logs everything is safer than not having an app, I agree with that.

An assumption does not make it true or correct.

You also say that it costs €6300 to get a taxi license, which in and of itself is a barrier to becoming a taxi driver, and it seems to me that this cannot be less safe than a situation where you're getting into a car with a person who has paid 0 to become an Uber driver (note that I'm not saying that cost barrier makes things completely safe, just at least equally safe, or perhaps even slightly more safe, than without).

The cost barrier is just that, a barrier. It is well known that for years, Dublin gangs used taxi's to launder their drug money. Having no barrier or a reasonable barrier of say €100 to cover administration, would just be as safe as a barrier of €100,000. Remember the pre-deregulation days of the 90's. Taxi drivers gave us that yarn as well, stating that people wouldn't use these newer taxi drivers as they would be 'all sorts of people' (a sly dig of non nationals, Irish Taxi drivers are quite racist in my experience). The issue should be centered about proper background checks, not stupid random fees on who can afford to be a taxi driver.

That's all well and good, but you specifically asked "would a mytaxi app be used as much if Uber or Lyft had not made the idea of it mainstream".

My response is simply that Uber did not make the idea mainstream in Ireland, because a lot of people have still not now even heard of Uber long after it has launched here, and certainly most had never heard of it before it launched.

Ireland is a small market, hence why Uber probably could not have been bothered to come here earlier. Ireland also deregulated the taxi industry many years ago, so although the €6,300 fee is stupid and unwarranted it is not as bad as those elsewhere like in NY, or London or Sydney, where a taxi licences costs up to $500,000. These were the markets that Uber wanted to crack and crack they did.

However, my main point was that innovation originated by the likes of Uber, Lyft and developers in myTaxi/Halio. The Irish taxi industry just piggy backed on this.

Put it another way, was the NTA or the Irish Taxi Federation or whomever they are called involved back in 2009 or 2010 in developing an app like myTaxi or Halio?

This just seems like a rant - I'm not in the taxi industry whatsoever, nor do I particularly like taxis, but I can only say what I see from the outside.

Fine, but don't give them credit for innovating in their industry when it was forced on them by the PD's in the 2000 and spoon feed to them by the tech revolution.

Manner of the old heads are still crying about it.

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/crime-and-law/courts/high-court/taxi-drivers-face-multimillion-euro-legal-bill-in-deregulation-case-1.2506103

markodaly · 06-01-2018 4:26pm

end of the road wrote: »

such cars are very likely going to eventually become mandatory so your argument isn't valid.

Do you have a source for this? I can understand a certain % but all? No taxi industry in the world has this requirement as far as I know.

there is no closed shop. there is a licence availible with a fee of 170 euro. perfectly fine and affordible.

Yes, €170 is fine, until you realise you need a wheelchair accesable car to avail of it. Which would be €20,000 min.

Kinda like how we in Ireland have free third level University if you ignore the €3,000 registration fee every year.:pac: But yea its free....:rolleyes:

howiya · 06-01-2018 4:37pm

markodaly wrote: »

Which means you need to have a wheelchair accessible car to avail of this taxi license, you left out that bit. Such a car would cost well north of 20,000 euro if not more.

The reason the restriction was introduced is that the number of wheelchair accessible taxis in Ireland fell by 40% since 2008.

In case you hadn't noticed the number of people in wheelchairs is increasing. Should Uber drivers be allowed discriminate against people in wheelchairs?

howiya · 06-01-2018 4:40pm

markodaly wrote: »

Yes, €170 is fine, until you realise you need a wheelchair accesable car to avail of it. Which would be €20,000 min.

Kinda like how we in Ireland have free third level University if you ignore the €3,000 registration fee every year.:pac: But yea its free....:rolleyes:

That's a bit like you suggesting a rideshare driver should pay a licence fee of €100 and then he/she realises they need a car :rolleyes:

markodaly · 06-01-2018 4:44pm

howiya wrote: »

The reason the restriction was introduced is that the number of wheelchair accessible taxis in Ireland fell by 40% since 2008.

In case you hadn't noticed the number of people in wheelchairs is increasing. Should Uber drivers be allowed discriminate against people in wheelchairs?

So, how is restricting would be Taxi drivers from driving a normal car help wheelchair users. Is there data available that shows us the optimal number of wheel chair accesible taxis? Maybe that 40% drop was warranted?

Uber had this covered as well by the way.
https://www.uber.com/en-IE/ride/uberwav/

howiya · 06-01-2018 4:54pm

markodaly wrote: »

So, how is restricting would be Taxi drivers from driving a normal car help wheelchair users. Is there data available that shows us the optimal number of wheel chair accesible taxis? Maybe that 40% drop was warranted?

Uber had this covered as well by the way.
https://www.uber.com/en-IE/ride/uberwav/

Uber doesn't have this covered since any uberwav you get in Ireland will also be a taxi. But sure let's pretend they are the ones responsible.

If you can't see how making new entrants buy a wheelchair accessible vehicle over a normal vehicle would help wheelchair users then I don't know how to explain it any clearer.

I doubt the NTA would have introduced the restriction or the grant aid to help people buy wheelchair accessible vehicles if they didn't have data to support their policy.

MJohnston · 06-01-2018 4:55pm

markodaly wrote: »

Yes, we are so concerned with unfair competition, you have no problem or comment to make on unfair regulation with makes the entire industry unfair from the get go. Funny that.

An assumption does not make it true or correct.

The cost barrier is just that, a barrier. It is well known that for years, Dublin gangs used taxi's to launder their drug money. Having no barrier or a reasonable barrier of say €100 to cover administration, would just be as safe as a barrier of €100,000. Remember the pre-deregulation days of the 90's. Taxi drivers gave us that yarn as well, stating that people wouldn't use these newer taxi drivers as they would be 'all sorts of people' (a sly dig of non nationals, Irish Taxi drivers are quite racist in my experience). The issue should be centered about proper background checks, not stupid random fees on who can afford to be a taxi driver.

Ireland is a small market, hence why Uber probably could not have been bothered to come here earlier. Ireland also deregulated the taxi industry many years ago, so although the €6,300 fee is stupid and unwarranted it is not as bad as those elsewhere like in NY, or London or Sydney, where a taxi licences costs up to $500,000. These were the markets that Uber wanted to crack and crack they did.

However, my main point was that innovation originated by the likes of Uber, Lyft and developers in myTaxi/Halio. The Irish taxi industry just piggy backed on this.

Put it another way, was the NTA or the Irish Taxi Federation or whomever they are called involved back in 2009 or 2010 in developing an app like myTaxi or Halio?

Fine, but don't give them credit for innovating in their industry when it was forced on them by the PD's in the 2000 and spoon feed to them by the tech revolution.

Manner of the old heads are still crying about it.

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/crime-and-law/courts/high-court/taxi-drivers-face-multimillion-euro-legal-bill-in-deregulation-case-1.2506103

You're just moving the goalposts on every single point here. I'll leave to argue with yourself, as I smell some vested interests/bitterness here that I can't be arsed with.

end of the road · 06-01-2018 5:10pm

markodaly wrote: »

Do you have a source for this? I can understand a certain % but all? No taxi industry in the world has this requirement as far as I know.

i said it's likely to become mandatory. not that it will definitely be come mandatory.

markodaly wrote: »

Yes, €170 is fine, until you realise you need a wheelchair accesable car to avail of it. Which would be €20,000 min.

yeah it's a non-issue. the fee is low as an incentive to buy a wheelchair accessible car. a good car suitable for a high quality taxi is going to cost around 15-20000 euro anyway so you may as well buy a wheelchair accessible one and be fully accessible and future proof. any taxi driver is going to have to buy a car anyway whether it's replacing their old taxi or buying a car specially for taxiing in the first place as they are starting out.

ted1 · 06-01-2018 5:12pm

stonebob wrote: »

Just back from London where I used Airbnb and Uber with great success......Uber was half the price of a taxi and there seemed to be one around every corner ..everyone loves them ..I know there's an argument about regulation of drivers but there's a lot of dodgy taxi drivers too just read the papers ...the drivers were polite ..spotless cars..and they don't tap on..

I used them to Malaysia, 3 people 6km 25c. It’s business model is s race to the bottom. Half the price of taxis , with similar overheads and about 30% of the fate going to UBER. There is no way a driver could support a family.

markodaly · 06-01-2018 5:24pm

end of the road wrote: »

i said it's likely to become mandatory. not that it will definitely be come mandatory.

So, you just made that up then. OK

yeah it's a non-issue. the fee is low as an incentive to buy a wheelchair accessible car. a good car suitable for a high quality taxi is going to cost around 15-20000 euro anyway so you may as well buy a wheelchair accessible one and be fully accessible and future proof. any taxi driver is going to have to buy a car anyway whether it's replacing their old taxi or buying a car specially for taxiing in the first place as they are starting out.

A wheelchair accessable taxi, €35,000 please
http://www.freedommobility.ie/viewanad.php?ad_id=1852433

Yea, its a non issue of course. Claiming that anyone can become a taxi driver for €170, when you have to fork out €35,000 in capital to avail of it.
What is your next point of economic wisdom? Claiming we already pay for water? :rolleyes:

markodaly · 06-01-2018 5:26pm

howiya wrote: »

Uber doesn't have this covered since any uberwav you get in Ireland will also be a taxi. But sure let's pretend they are the ones responsible.

If you can't see how making new entrants buy a wheelchair accessible vehicle over a normal vehicle would help wheelchair users then I don't know how to explain it any clearer.

I doubt the NTA would have introduced the restriction or the grant aid to help people buy wheelchair accessible vehicles if they didn't have data to support their policy.

You give too much credence to the NTA then. The NTA are a public body, would they not release this data or maybe they have no data to begin with.

Uber

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