Green card for driving in NI and UK

wonski · 21-03-2019 11:59am

They could cut down the cost by not taking payment and not checking the dates by giving it until the end of the policy. They can also pre x the countries as it is the UK part that needs to be added.

I don't mind paying admin fee if I decide to travel to countries like China or Belarus, but since UK is listed in my cover then taking additional payment makes the original premium more expensive. If they charge me 5 times a year that's 100 euro, I could be better off switching to company that doesn't charge for it.

josip · 21-03-2019 12:13pm

wonski wrote: »

They could cut down the cost by not taking payment and not checking the dates by giving it until the end of the policy. They can also pre x the countries as it is the UK part that needs to be added.

I don't mind paying admin fee if I decide to travel to countries like China or Belarus, but since UK is listed in my cover then taking additional payment makes the original premium more expensive. If they charge me 5 times a year that's 100 euro, I could be better off switching to company that doesn't charge for it.

Fully agree that charging to issue it multiple times isn't on.
Can anyone who knows how the industry works explain why they want to know the specific dates that you'll be abroad?
There wouldn't be any additional cost to them beyond what's already underwritten in the Ts&Cs of your policy.

If your Insurance Provider charges you for each request, rather than each trip, then ask them for a Green Card for the trips you'll be making on Week 1 and Week 52 of your policy.

Isambard · 21-03-2019 12:25pm

wonski wrote: »

They could cut down the cost by not taking payment and not checking the dates by giving it until the end of the policy. They can also pre x the countries as it is the UK part that needs to be added.

I don't mind paying admin fee if I decide to travel to countries like China or Belarus, but since UK is listed in my cover then taking additional payment makes the original premium more expensive. If they charge me 5 times a year that's 100 euro, I could be better off switching to company that doesn't charge for it.

The UK is listed now, but there's always the possibility they will change that on a No Deal Brexit or indeed a Brexit with a deal that doesn't allow for this area. We just don't know what's going to happen.

Tabnabs · 21-03-2019 12:31pm

AIG have changed their tune and have now confirmed that they will issue Greens Cards, on request, but no mention of a fee.

Perfect, I have just logged a request for a green card to be issued to you. Please allow up to two weeks for this to be recieved.

wassie · 21-03-2019 12:48pm

Kennco were initially going to charge, then sent out a mass email with PDF greencards. But their instructions were that it need to be printed in A4 & colour, double sided. Thats a lot of green ink assuming you even have one.

And before anyone suggests using green paper, the PDF is actually a green backround so that trick wont work. I requested a hard copy and they obliged.

Also I was aware that they had sent hard copies to other policy holders direct - I assume perhaps to those in the borderlands.

josip wrote: »

But the paper won't magic its way out to everyone who needs it.
There is a labour cost involved in providing this niche service.
We would have had to send a mail, follow up with a phone call outlining dates, provide payment details over the phone and then someone on the other end had to X off the countries we didn't want and post out the form.
You can't ignore that and say, "but the piece of paper only costs..."

I think you over estimate the cost.

It would make far more sense to automatically generate, print & mail out a single A4 piece of paper to all policy holders in a single batch lowering the unit cost to do such. The cost would not remotely be anywhere near the revenue generated by charging [€20 x all policy holders].

wonski · 21-03-2019 1:05pm

Well you just need a colour printer obviously. No different than printing your certificate in colour.

josip · 21-03-2019 1:54pm

wassie wrote: »

...

I think you over estimate the cost.

It would make far more sense to automatically generate, print & mail out a single A4 piece of paper to all policy holders in a single batch lowering the unit cost to do such. The cost would not remotely be anywhere near the revenue generated by charging [€20 x all policy holders].

I think you overestimate how many green cards were required before Brexit.
There's a significant upfront cost to automating manual processes and the number of Irish cars requiring it wouldn't have made a business case for it. Even now it wouldn't make sense to pay to automate the process in case the UK exit in an orderly manner and it's not required.

I don't know why this is the case, but the form has to be green, so emailing to people to print out may not work for all.
I don't know if green ink/paper is acceptable, but if I'm crossing a border at the other side of Europe I'd rather have paid the €20 and have the peace of mind knowing the form will be accepted.

I understand that for the UK situation people may be happy to take the chance that they can talk their way past the policeman at the border if they don't have it.

Eggs For Dinner · 21-03-2019 2:10pm

wonski wrote: »

This is the bit from my policy about being insured in the UK:

If the green card is required then they must provide it for free since my premium does include driving within UK. And I would expect, or even demand it, to be free for the duration of the policy. Some companies need to have their heads examined because they have no clue what they signed when they took the payment.

I don't think you get the point of the green card. You have the cover to drive to the UK now and you will have the cover to drive in the UK after Brexit. However, after Brexit, the UK authorities will insist that you're able to PROVE you are insured in the INTERNATIONALLY ACCEPTED FORMAT to drive in their territory., which is a green card.

wassie · 21-03-2019 2:11pm

josip wrote: »

There's a significant upfront cost to automating manual processes and the number of Irish cars requiring it wouldn't have made a business case for it.

What is this manual process you refer to? Simply extract the required info from a database, populate a template, print it and mail it. Not rocket science.

My insurer clearly was able to batch email out green card PDFs to all policy holders so the next step is to batch print & mail.

You may well be fine to cough up another twenty quid to your insurer. Personally I'm not so keen given we have been paying over the top for car insurance in this country for years.

wonski · 21-03-2019 2:18pm

Eggs For Dinner wrote: »

I don't think you get the point of the green card. You have the cover to drive to the UK now and you will have the cover to drive in the UK after Brexit. However, after Brexit, the UK authorities will insist that you're able to PROVE you are insured in the INTERNATIONALLY ACCEPTED FORMAT to drive in their territory., which is a green card.

I definitely do. If my insurer clearly offers me cover at that territory then he should provide me with green card if necessary. Not for 20 euro a pop, though.

If however I require a cover to drive to non EU country in Eastern Europe, then I accept they might charge me an admin fee as this is not a cover I was given at the start of the policy.

Hope you get my point.

It's like issuing a policy valid everywhere in the world but asking the Insured to pay extra premium whenever they want to go abroad

mikeecho · 21-03-2019 6:19pm

Brexit is on hold till June 30th

Let's see what July has in store for us.

josip · 21-03-2019 7:09pm

mikeecho wrote: »

Brexit is on hold till June 30th

Let's see what July has in store for us.

Where did you see that?

Isambard · 21-03-2019 8:09pm

looking like May 22nd, the day before the election

antodeco · 21-03-2019 8:16pm

clonesbabe wrote: »

Got the following email today

Dear Client....
Kind regards,

I was thinking about this. Surely this is First Ireland's charge? Could you (and I) just ring the insurance provider directly?

mikeecho · 21-03-2019 10:37pm

mikeecho :Brexit is on hold till June 30th

Let's see what July has in store for us.

josip wrote: »

Where did you see that?

https://www.google.com/search?q=brexit+june+30&oq=brexit+june+30&aqs=chrome..69i57.6000j0j7&client=ms-unknown&sourceid=chrome-mobile&ie=UTF-8

Isambard · 21-03-2019 10:38pm

mikeecho wrote: »

https://www.google.com/search?q=brexit+june+30&oq=brexit+june+30&aqs=chrome..69i57.6000j0j7&client=ms-unknown&sourceid=chrome-mobile&ie=UTF-8

old news, as I said, May22nd is being tipped, the day before the elections.

josip · 21-03-2019 10:53pm

mikeecho wrote: »

https://www.google.com/search?q=brexit+june+30&oq=brexit+june+30&aqs=chrome..69i57.6000j0j7&client=ms-unknown&sourceid=chrome-mobile&ie=UTF-8

Mike, in case you aren't aware the UK no longer have any control over the Brexit process, nor have they had for some time.
It's the EU that are calling the dates now.

clones1980 · 21-03-2019 11:27pm

antodeco wrote: »

I was thinking about this. Surely this is First Ireland's charge? Could you (and I) just ring the insurance provider directly?

Definitely. I'm not even sure who the provider is but I'll be checking it out. I cross border 20 times a day just going and coming from work.

mikeecho · 21-03-2019 11:29pm

josip wrote: »

Mike, in case you aren't aware the UK no longer have any control over the Brexit process, nor have they had for some time.
It's the EU that are calling the dates now.

TBH .. I've kinda zoned out of brexit.

I'm sick of it, it's out of our hands, what happens, happens.
We'll just have to deal with it, when/if it happens.

The world will keep turning.

Charles Babbage · 21-03-2019 11:39pm

josip wrote: »

I think you overestimate how many green cards were required before Brexit.
There's a significant upfront cost to automating manual processes and the number of Irish cars requiring it wouldn't have made a business case for it. Even now it wouldn't make sense to pay to automate the process in case the UK exit in an orderly manner and it's not required.

I don't know why this is the case, but the form has to be green, so emailing to people to print out may not work for all.
I don't know if green ink/paper is acceptable, but if I'm crossing a border at the other side of Europe I'd rather have paid the €20 and have the peace of mind knowing the form will be accepted.

I understand that for the UK situation people may be happy to take the chance that they can talk their way past the policeman at the border if they don't have it.

As I posted in post #55, the NI authorities have said you don't need it. Now of course Britain may be a different case.

Esel · 21-03-2019 11:42pm

clonesbabe wrote: »

Definitely. I'm not even sure who the provider is but I'll be checking it out. I cross border 20 times a day just going and coming from work.

20 times a day?

CiniO · 21-03-2019 11:48pm

Esel wrote: »

20 times a day?

Driving from Cavan to Armagh you're crossing border 5 times.
So trip Cavan-Armagh-Cavan, and another Cavan-Armagh-Cavan after lunch is already 20 times border crossing.

Isambard · 21-03-2019 11:49pm

Charles Babbage wrote: »

As I posted in post #55, the NI authorities have said you don't need it. Now of course Britain may be a different case.

I don't think it matters what the NI authorities think is the case, your Insurance won't be valid if you drive abroad without a green card in those circumstances. They and everyone else don't actually know what the situation will be.

Eggs For Dinner · 22-03-2019 12:12am

wonski wrote:

If however I require a cover to drive to non EU country in Eastern Europe, then I accept they might charge me an admin fee as this is not a cover I was given at the start of the policy.

. Your insurer has no problem in covering you in Britain under the current terms of your policy, it is just that the British police will no longer recognise your paperwork as being proof that you are insured. It's a problem they have created, not your insurer

wonski · 22-03-2019 12:18am

Eggs For Dinner wrote: »

. Your insurer has no problem in covering you in Britain under the current terms of your policy, it is just that the British police will no longer recognise your paperwork as being proof that you are insured. It's a problem they have created, not your insurer

Why always we have to pick up the tab, though?

3 levies already added to policies and now this...

We are just looking at this from different angle.

Luckily most insurers are just going to issue it for free and I guess the rest will follow. Unless they won't be necessary in the end, but that's up to UK really.

Charles Babbage · 22-03-2019 1:35am

Isambard wrote: »

I don't think it matters what the NI authorities think is the case, your Insurance won't be valid if you drive abroad without a green card in those circumstances. They and everyone else don't actually know what the situation will be.

As pointed above in the thread, people's policies state where they are valid. Irish policies have been required to be valid in NI for over 60 years. NI authories are happy to accept your policy without any green card. What exactly is the problem?

CiniO · 22-03-2019 2:21am

Charles Babbage wrote: »

As pointed above in the thread, people's policies state where they are valid. Irish policies have been required to be valid in NI for over 60 years. NI authories are happy to accept your policy without any green card. What exactly is the problem?

But do you know the details?
Do you know exactly which law act requires Irish policies to be valid in NI for last 60 years, and are you sure it hasn't been revoked?
And are you sure NI authorities are happy to accept policy without green card?

ednwireland · 22-03-2019 9:02am

Allianz sent me my green card today, I just emailed them asking if I needed one as I live 10 miles from the border.

ednwireland · 22-03-2019 9:04am

Charles Babbage wrote: »

As pointed above in the thread, people's policies state where they are valid. Irish policies have been required to be valid in NI for over 60 years. NI authories are happy to accept your policy without any green card. What exactly is the problem?

I know people who had Quinn policies that didn't cover them in the north so I don't think you're right. They had to go back and ask. Which from a company in Cavan insuring people in a border area was surprising.

clones1980 · 22-03-2019 12:39pm

Esel wrote: »

20 times a day?

Yes. There is 208 border crossings approx or one for every two and a half km. Of the 8 roads in and out of my home town 5 run into fermanagh.

Green card for driving in NI and UK

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