How big is too big?

Evil Phil · 05-04-2005 5:00pm

I don't care about sizes, fit does not equal thin. I like a firm bod on a woman but maybe that's just me.

simu · 05-04-2005 5:01pm

psi wrote:

The BMI you calculate yourself isn't true BMI.

In order to calculate your true BMI a variety of things need to be measured. Physically for instance, you'd need to measure pelvic width, shoulder width and in cases of women, cup size.

Fair enough then - I've never had such a thing measured by a pro because I don't appear to be unhealthy.

And indeed, I believe the answer to this thread lies there - you're too big/small if your health is being damaged by being too fat/thin. As for attractiveness of different sizes, it's totally subjective so not worth getting into arguments about.

GuanYin · 05-04-2005 5:08pm

simu wrote:

Fair enough then - I've never had such a thing measured by a pro because I don't appear to be unhealthy.

And indeed, I believe the answer to this thread lies there - you're too big/small if your health is being damaged by being too fat/thin. As for attractiveness of different sizes, it's totally subjective so not worth getting into arguments about.

Its not that clear cut. being clinically over or underweight can have implications for your health further down the line without you actually being unhealthy now.

rainbow kirby · 05-04-2005 5:37pm

Evil Phil wrote:

fit does not equal thin.

Amen.
I'm a size 14 at the moment, but I'm as fit as I've been in years (I'm about to go for TKD black belt). I'm never going to be a size 10, no matter how hard I try.

Wibbs · 05-04-2005 6:21pm

psi wrote:

Its not that clear cut. being clinically over or underweight can have implications for your health further down the line without you actually being unhealthy now.

Regardless of opinion on the merits of fat v thin, being underweight(within reason) is still better than being overweight. Less stress on the heart and skeletal system for a start.

In fact calorie restriction(with proper nutrition) is at the moment one of the few scientifically backed method of increased longevity.

http://archives.cnn.com/2000/HEALTH/diet.fitness/09/12/120.year.diet.wmd/

The General · 05-04-2005 6:48pm

beyonce or avril lavigne????????????

Id pick beyonce evertime!

Wibbs · 05-04-2005 6:51pm

Agreed and good example too. Though I would suspect that in the flesh Beyonce would be a very slim woman. Lovely eyes too. Damn, drool on the keyboard. Again........

banquo · 06-04-2005 1:01pm

I like 'em skinny.

and avril lavigne.

kittenkiller · 06-04-2005 1:04pm

banquo wrote:

I like 'em skinny.

and avril lavigne.

How skinny is skinny for you?

Zulu · 06-04-2005 1:06pm

If it rolls - it's too fat.
ie: you shouldn't be hanging over the top of your pants.

kittenkiller · 06-04-2005 1:10pm

but then you could just buy bigger pants!

that doesn't really hold as a measuring method!

Zulu · 06-04-2005 1:16pm

true - but if you're going up sizes after you've finished puberty, you know it's not your bones growing.

(sorry - I should make it clear that I'm fairly unforgiving about fatness. Some guys like it, it's one of my biggest turn offs though. That being said - I prefer a woman with a shape, too thin is equally unattractive)

kittenkiller · 06-04-2005 1:50pm

Zulu wrote:

(sorry - I should make it clear that I'm fairly unforgiving about fatness. Some guys like it, it's one of my biggest turn offs though.

Not being seen as attractive to someone ISN'T something people should be "forgiven" for!

I don't expect an apology from some random guy on the street just cuz i would go to bed with him based on his appearance!!!!

Zulu · 06-04-2005 2:30pm

kittenkiller wrote:

Not being seen as attractive to someone ISN'T something people should be "forgiven" for!

I don't expect an apology from some random guy on the street just cuz i would go to bed with him based on his appearance!!!!

Calm down. Jeez. Jump down my troat anyways... :rolleyes:
I don't expect an apology from anybody. The word "forgiving" can be used in different ways. (see below)

for·giv·ing ( P ) Pronunciation Key (fr-gvng, fôr-)
adj.
Inclined or able to forgive.
Providing a margin for error or shortcomings.

When I say I am "unforgiving" about fatness, I mean that I wouldn't really see a difference between 2 chins and 5 chins; I mean, that to me, fat is fat is fat.

*Angel* · 06-04-2005 4:36pm

Wez wrote:

I think too skinny is ugly on a girl. I'm no chicken myself (6 foot and 14 stone) although I'm planning a very active summer. I hate seeing girls that haven't got anything see wobble. I know it sounds weird, but my mates agree. If a girl is chubby (to an extent) it's much nicer than skinny imo. I'm gonna slim down/tone up this summer, but I don't wanna go too skinny as I don't think it's good looking. I'm aiming for maybe 12-13 stone (crosses fingers)

I disagree completely, I'm a girl and I think that skinny girls do generally look better. That's not to say that bigger girls don't look good, if a person is confident with her shape then that will improve the way she looks and carries herself. I like the idea of wearing whatever I want, my opinion is that short skirts only look good on thinner girls and I'm glad that I'm able to wear them.

4Xcut · 08-04-2005 12:34pm

Sangre wrote:

Fat people always say this.

I happen to know matt and can tell you that where as he has a bit of a belly (as i do) but neither of us are fat.

What poor argumentitive(sp?) skill. IS there any chance that you are twelve(And a stupid 12 year old at that)

Sangre · 08-04-2005 2:23pm

No I actually am 11. Yet at this tender young age I can hurt your feelings, isn't that cute.

I suspect you actually are a fat person in denial, they're always making excuses about weight.

'According to my BMI I'm overweight but pfffft, that doesn't include all my muscle and big penis, sure I must be really muscley to carry all this fat around'

grimloch · 08-04-2005 8:21pm

Sangre wrote:

No I actually am 11. Yet at this tender young age I can hurt your feelings, isn't that cute.

I suspect you actually are a fat person in denial, they're always making excuses about weight.

'According to my BMI I'm overweight but pfffft, that doesn't include all my muscle and big penis, sure I must be really muscley to carry all this fat around'

i know 4xcut personally and i can absolutely confirm he is not fat, so much for your little theory.

Johnson · 08-04-2005 8:24pm

*Angel* wrote:

my opinion is that short skirts only look good on thinner girls and I'm glad that I'm able to wear them.

Not so thin that they have chicken legs, hopefully. It's almost as horrible a sight as an overweight girl with huge legs in a miniskirt.

iguana · 09-04-2005 5:57pm

Zulu wrote:

true - but if you're going up sizes after you've finished puberty, you know it's not your bones growing.

A woman's body will continue to change shape and size all her life. It is preparing to carry a child and give birth. Then it does get pregnant and give birth, usually more than once. Then it shuts down these facilities and the body's hormone change usually mean more changes to the body. Body changes after puberty doesn't automatically = getting fat.

At 24 my breasts went from 32E to 32F, that was two years ago and it may not be the last change they make. I think my hips may still be widening. I know I'm not getting fat as I have maintained a 28 inch waist, a size 10, for my whole adult life. I also have pretty good muscle tone on my arms, stomach, legs and thighs. I suspect I am above the bmi average for my height(5"1') however, but I'm not really interested. I look and feel good, I don't care about a generalising index that indicates Russel Crowe and George Clooney as obese.

I don't think being over-weight is attractive. There are some who have a preference for it, but there are also those out there who have a sexual attraction to feet or elbows. It's a fetish. I also don't think that most people are hugely attracted to the incredibly skinny, my preference is for broad, reasonably muscular shoulders and chest, a well defined bum and firm thighs. Probably a genetic pre-programming that most of us share as we are all sub-consciously on the look out for a healthy mate to breed with, but I would choose skinny over fat any day.

I don't think anyone is happy to be fat, but I don't think that the whole movement to celebrate fat is a good thing. Just like I won't celebrate somebody's destructive alcohol or drug abuse. It is a self-inflicted condition which impairs their life and shortens their lifespan. It isn't an easy thing to change but it is possible, support and help are probably the most useful things any of us can offer to the overweight. Certainly better than insults or right-on justification.

I do wonder though why it is acceptable for non-smokers to complain publically about the dangers of smoking and how socially inacceptable it is. Yet it isn't ok to critisise the over-weight on the dangers of being so fat and the ways in which it can aversely effect those around them?

Rozie · 10-04-2005 9:20pm

I absolutely love big girls, but I prefer my guys a little thinner. I think guys can only look like thin girls, but not big girls XD I like effeminite males.

Big girls are great if they carry the weight well. Some girls look so much better like that. It pains when whe na really hot plump girl wants to loose weight when she doesn't need to. It hurts her to do so but she's convinced she must to suceed in life. It's sickening.

Some people look good thin, some people look good wide.

I think weight is a nice variable just lke shape of face or colour of skin.

If you really want to, stuff yourself and become huge, though I'd recommend against going overboard with that one :P

We need more big girls that are also hot... goth girls often pull it off quite well

I myself am a little plump. I want to loose a bit of weight, but only a stone or so, if I don't I don't, though I must admit the diet bashers have gotten to my self confidence a little(Well, my Dad has). After that I'm fine with myself.

As for how fat is too fat, I don't know. I'd say around 280 pounds but it depends on height and where it goes to, and I've seen some massively fat women of 450 pounds who were still somewhat attractive because they wore themselves well.

But generally, when things start to sag too much, and you start getting fat person folds all over, you've overdone it a bit.

I will admit that I do have a fetish for wide hips and pudgy bellies, but I can find thin girls hot too (as long as they still have some meat on them, anorexic is ick). I think it's very arrogant to call it just a fetish and that nobody really finds larger girls attractive. That's exactly what's bringing big people down and making them feel like ****.

Why exactly can't big people be attractive? Because they're too fat? There isn't any reason why big people should be automatically ugly. I think anti-fat opinions are generally very bigoted and generally come from people who are either thin or lack self confidence, or both.

Zulu · 11-04-2005 10:11am

Rozie wrote:

I think it's very arrogant to call it just a fetish and that nobody really finds larger girls attractive.

Telling the truth may hurt some people - but it's not arrogant.

Why exactly can't big people be attractive?

Why can't excessively hairy women be attractive?
They can be - to a select few.

Because they're too fat?

Exactly

There isn't any reason why big people should be automatically ugly.

...and there isn't any reason why bearded ladies should be automatically ugly - but they are.

I think anti-fat opinions are generally very bigoted and generally come from people who are either thin or lack self confidence, or both.

I think denial isn't very helpful. Explain how "anti-fat opinions" are either bigoted or display a lack of confidence. People are being honest here - perhaps this is hitting a raw nerve for you, my suggestion would be: if you're going to let this get to you, or take it personally - don't read the thread.

Sangre · 11-04-2005 11:24am

Rozie wrote:

As for how fat is too fat, I don't know. I'd say around 280 pounds but it depends on height and where it goes to, and I've seen some massively fat women of 450 pounds who were still somewhat attractive because they wore themselves well.

Oh dear god no!

As a rule a girl better not weight more than me.

*Page* · 11-04-2005 11:38am

Fat?

my 2 female friends are sizes 8 at 5'4" and 5'2" 10 my friends want bodies like mine and i want ones like theirs.

Now i'm not thin but i'm fit i'm flexible and i can run with out being out of breath!
i'm only 5 foot and i'm a size 14! does this make me too fat?

the point is that no body is perfect everyone wants to be a little bit thinner/bigger have bigger/smaller boobs/bum/legs/arms/face have starighter/curlier natural hair! the list goes on.

Debating over whats Fat or not is silly! its all personal perference!

It's time people stoped looking at how fat/thin other people are and start seeing is this person happy/sad nice/ mean care/horrible! you can get fat over a few days! you can also get thin too but you will always be who you are!

GuanYin · 11-04-2005 12:09pm

I meant to post this up before.

Its basically a rough way of adjusting BMI for build bust size. Remember, BMI is not very accurate because it doesn't differentiate muscle from fat. The only real way to assess your body composition is with medical professionals.

I'm posting this for fun and maybe to cheer up people who were disappointed with the BMI they calculated before.

BMI = weight in Kg /(height in metres squared)

For women subtract .36Kg for every cup size over A from your weight in Kg

The BMI index table is then adjusted as follows:
very slim/petite build +1.9 to your calculated BMI
slim build +1.1 to your calculated BMI
Athletic/muscular build -1.3 from calculated BMI
Stocky/broad build - 1.6 from calculated BMI
Heavy Build - 3 from calculated BMI

BMI Index:
Below 18.5 Underweight
18.5 – 24.9 Normal
25.0 – 29.9 Overweight
30.0 and Above Obese

iguana · 11-04-2005 4:42pm

*Page* wrote:

the point is that no body is perfect everyone wants to be a little bit thinner/bigger have bigger/smaller boobs/bum/legs/arms/face have starighter/curlier natural hair! the list goes on.

While I am aware that I am by no means perfect, I have no real desire to change much, I had a large purple facial birthmark reduced when I was a teenager, partly because it threatened my eyesight in one eye. And I sometimes wish I hadn't broken my nose, but that is mostly because of the recurring sinus problems I have since it broke.

I don't think that everyone feels unhappy with some part of them, I think that is a myth. I don't feel that way, nor does my mother. I've not asked them, but I have some friends in mind that I doubt give it a lot of thought either. If I see some one pretty in a way that I am not, for example some one with long legs, dark skin or blonde hair I don't envy them. I just think they are pretty, it doesn't make me wish I wasn't short, pale skinned and dark haired. It doesn't make me question my confidence in myself or make me a little unhappy in myself.

I am me, I look like me, that is all I want to look like.

Rozie wrote:

I will admit that I do have a fetish for wide hips and pudgy bellies, but I can find thin girls hot too (as long as they still have some meat on them, anorexic is ick). I think it's very arrogant to call it just a fetish and that nobody really finds larger girls attractive.

You just called it a fetish in the sentence before you said it was arrogant to call it a fetish!

Rozie · 11-04-2005 8:16pm

Zulu wrote:

Telling the truth may hurt some people - but it's not arrogant.

Why can't excessively hairy women be attractive?
They can be - to a select few.

Exactly

...and there isn't any reason why bearded ladies should be automatically ugly - but they are.

That's a ****ing ridiculous thing to say. You can't compare the two. Having hair is a very masculine thing to have, which is why it isn't attractive. Being slightly large isn't, in fact, it's very womanly.

That's your precise explanation. Now, offer one for fat people, please.

Look at Marylin Monroe, or going back, most godesses - Aphrodite and even more so Gaia were depicted as being rather shapely, some even large.
What ever happened to the large mistress figure?

Why the change? Why are shapely women no longer attractive? Why is having a

It's not "the truth" - it's your personal opinion, dear

Mine isn't so much of a personal opinion as a little push for global acceptance.

I think denial isn't very helpful. Explain how "anti-fat opinions" are either bigoted or display a lack of confidence. People are being honest here - perhaps this is hitting a raw nerve for you, my suggestion would be: if you're going to let this get to you, or take it personally - don't read the thread.

How is it denial? Denying that they're big? WHAT are they denying? Should they just accept they're ugly and need to loose weight?

They sap confidence by making fat people out to be ugly. How can that not damage as shape

And while I quite like larger women, it's not just because of my personal like that I think my opinion is valid. It's because well, it's ****ing cruel on people that just can't loose weight, or people that don't want to.

And should I not post in the thread if it's personal? Exactly what a thread like this needs is people talking from real personal experience not just "I Like Anorexic girls because they're thin".

Sangre · 11-04-2005 8:28pm

Rozie wrote:

That's a ****ing ridiculous thing to say. You can't compare the two. Having hair is a very masculine thing to have, which is why it isn't attractive. Being slightly large isn't, in fact, it's very womanly.

He never said slightly large, stop exaggerating. What about women with hairy legs, armpits and lips. Women who go completely unshaved? What is your opinion of this natural 'beautiful' state of womanhood? Do you find it just as appealing?

Rozie wrote:

Look at Marylin Monroe, or going back, most godesses - Aphrodite and even more so Gaia were depicted as being rather shapely, some even large.
What ever happened to the large mistress figure?

Why the change? Why are shapely women no longer attractive?

Marilyn Monroe or Aphrodite were fat or even slightly large, they were curvy. Stop trying to manipulate words with different meanings to convince people of your point.

Who said shapely women are no longer attractive?
No one, in fact the trend on this thread has been quite the opposite.

Rozie wrote:

It's not "the truth" - it's your personal opinion, dear

Mine isn't so much of a personal opinion as a little push for global acceptance.

It is the truth, read the sentence. It is the truth of his opinion on fat women.
And try not to be a patronising moron by saying dear.

Why are you trying to push your personal opinion on the world. Why do you care what others find beautiful?

Rozie wrote:

How is it denial? Denying that they're big? WHAT are they denying? Should they just accept they're ugly and need to loose weight?

They are denying being fat is an unhealthy state and considered unattractive by most.
Yes they should.

Rozie wrote:

And while I quite like larger women, it's not just because of my personal like that I think my opinion is valid. It's because well, it's ****ing cruel on people that just can't loose weight, or people that don't want to.

Wow you've an personal opinion, get over yourself. Everybody does.
Its not cruel, its people saying what like. If you don't want to lose weight you have to accept some people won't find you attractive.

And nobody 'can't' lose weight, only the weak-willed.

Rozie wrote:

And should I not post in the thread if it's personal? Exactly what a thread like this needs is people talking from real personal experience not just "I Like Anorexic girls because they're thin".

Where are you spouting this nonsense from?

Rozie · 11-04-2005 10:49pm

Sangre wrote:

He never said slightly large, stop exaggerating. What about women with hairy legs, armpits and lips. Women who go completely unshaved? What is your opinion of this natural 'beautiful' state of womanhood? Do you find it just as appealing?

What I consider "slightly large", he'd consider ****ing huge. I consider "slightly large" to be 16+

Marilyn Monroe or Aphrodite were fat or even slightly large, they were curvy. Stop trying to manipulate words with different meanings to convince people of your point.

Who said shapely women are no longer attractive?
No one, in fact the trend on this thread has been quite the opposite.

Err, Size 10 doesn't tend to be shapely.

It is the truth, read the sentence. It is the truth of his opinion on fat women.
And try not to be a patronising moron by saying dear.

Why are you trying to push your personal opinion on the world. Why do you care what others find beautiful?

I care how other people feel about themselves. And this bull**** is exactly what makes eating disorders all the more painful, anorexic and overeating.

They are denying being fat is an unhealthy state and considered unattractive by most.
Yes they should.

Bull****. You are a common male so you do not find it attractive. You lack the capacity to see anything beautiful which does not fit a certain mould.

I can find a fat girl just as attractive as a thin girl. You, cannot, because you are closed minded, or just do not like larger women. The way you put across your point leads me to believe you've set up camp on the closed minded end of the spectrum.
As for guys, I personally much prefer them thin because women have much more intersting places to put fat, but I don't think they HAVE to loose weight, to be with me or in general, I think they should be all sizes just to blow up the whole "It's just a fetish" point.

I'm not arguing that girls should be bigger because I like them that way, I'm arguing that there's no dire need for them to loose weight unless it's essential to their health(which it ISN'T, diseases among fat people are much rarer than diet pushers would have you believe).

It's opinions like yours that make fat people depressed in the first place. "Most people think they're unattractive, so I think they are too". Do you not see yourself working with the flock?

Wow you've an personal opinion, get over yourself. Everybody does.
Its not cruel, its people saying what like. If you don't want to lose weight you have to accept some people won't find you attractive.

And nobody 'can't' lose weight, only the weak-willed.

You're not saying you prefer thinner girls, you're saying that fat girls are ugly and undesirable, and absolutely have to loose weight because you say so.

I'm saying that people should be whatever weight they're truly happy at.

Oh, and THAT was rich. What about eating disorders? What about severe depression? *YOU* have not lived in a world where *YOU* have had to deal with being overweight, and not being able to use it. No doubt you put on a few pounds and lost them after some excerising effort, that's nowhere near the same thing. I suffer from major self image issues and I don't need this crap just because I weigh a little more.
It's easy to look down on others as "weak willed" when you haven't been through what they've been through. Usually, there's a reason for someone being "weak willed" that's beyond their control.

But they lack determination, so you don't have to care about them. They're weak. Leave behind the weak of the pack. Even most animals have evolved beyond that.

I don't need to be told I'm ugly because I'm large. I can be. I'm not entirely unfit, and I'm surprisingly agile for my weight. Damn, now you're making me feel fat when I'm only pudgy. This is exactly what happens.

I still have a decent figure and I can be attractive. I've seen girls larger than me who are even more attractive. They are PRETTY. I don't see how being large makes them ugly, unless they are hideously/unmanagably so, and there's even some who like that.

I found this wonderful piece while searching for relevant material - http://www.moonspheres.com/moonbubbles/

Laura Judd wrote:

A man spoke to me online the other night and sort of gave me a lecture about weight. He was talking from his own perspective and basically said that the woman who carried more weight was of less value than the woman who was thin. In saying this, he implied that my own value was lessened by my weight as if that element alone was enough to judge me by.

He continued to say that he was envied for his wife because she had such a desirable figure and that she "took care of herself" so well. That she wasn't lazy or unhealthy.

I lay awake last night and pondered this as at the time I was too blown away to even respond with anything intelligent.

I thought long and hard about my self-worth and my value to others and how when it came to people who were truly important in my life, my weight has never really been an issue.

Now I wish I could have that man's ear so I could tell him what I should have said last night.

I would say:

I have value. I am, in fact priceless.

Aside from the fact that I have spent years broadening my skills and talents in playing piano, guitar, percussion and bass, singing, drawing, painting, writing fiction, prose, and poetry - Aside from the fact that I am an extraordinarily intelligent and articulate woman, talented photographer, make-up artist, hairdresser, 9-ball player, interior decorator, jewelry craftsman, business owner, and basketball player - Not even counting the fact that I am an accomplished gourmet cook, have a broad and eclectic knowledge and appreciation for art & music and that I can make 50.00 last for 2 weeks - above ALL of these things, I love without reservation and am loved a thousand fold in return. I kiss away the pain and hurt of my children and with my voice, my hands, and my love, I can soothe away the stresses of my husband's day. I can make my friends and family laugh in a heartbeat and I can do this even in their darkest hours. I make sure that both my ear and my shoulder are there for those I love at all times - even when I am not at my best. I am honest and forthright in my dealings with people and I value things like integrity, respect, and honor. I give whatever I don't need to those who are in need. I put the lives and love of my children and my man before my own and I do all of this because of who I am - not the package that carries my psyche or my spirit.

You say that because I am "fat" I am not beautiful. I tell you to speak with my husband, my sons, my mother & father, my family, and my friends. Ask them if I am beautiful.

You say that your wife has more value because she "takes care of herself." I take care of myself. I take pride in the way I carry and present myself to others even if it doesn't match up to what others find beautiful. I take care of myself by being all of those things I stated above.

You say she has more value because the shell that is the vessel for her spirit fits the media's criteria for what is considered attractive. Sex is only one thing. I am an infinite number of things - some of these things are flaws, some of them assets. Some of these give me value but all of them make me unique.

You devalue me because of what you see as one flaw without even stopping to think for a moment that there just might be more to me than your narrow-minded, stereotypical vision of a lazy, unhealthy, fat slob who doesn't take care of herself.

I am far from perfect, but I am more than flesh. I am so many things to so many people and they love me for each and every facet of who I am - both good and bad.

Maybe some day someone will look at you the same way you looked at me and you'll see what I mean. Until then, I wish you a broader mind, a kinder tongue, and clearer more compassionate vision.

I think that woman is beautiful. A little too foldy and perhaps a little too large for my liking, but in general, still beautiful. She has a very heartfelt piece on "i.html", but I wouldn't recommend fat haters to look at it without wanting to give a pre-programmed hurl.

Confidence is a very important thing.

NinjaBart · 12-04-2005 12:39am

says you

How big is too big?

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