How big is too big?

GuanYin

Sangre wrote:

And nobody 'can't' lose weight, only the weak-willed.

Thats true in every respect except the one based on scientific fact.

Wibbs

Posted by psi

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sangre
And nobody 'can't' lose weight, only the weak-willed.

Thats true in every respect except the one based on scientific fact.

Well science would suggest that if I get 10 overweight people in a room and give them smaller portions of food they will lose weight. They may not all end up the same size but they will lose weight. Basically you do not get clinically obese by eating lettuce(endecrine/mental disorders aside). How many obese people do you see in times of famine? If it's not down to food intake why are we getting fatter in the west?

Posted by Rozie

Err, Size 10 doesn't tend to be shapely

I would disagree. My girlfriend is a size 10 and 5 ft 6 and I would consider her shapely. She has a waist that's smaller than her hips for a start. I know many more size tens and only one isn't "shapely". If you look at how men would describe a woman with their hands, they make an hour glass figure in the air. They do not make the shape of a beach ball.

Bull****. You are a common male so you do not find it attractive. You lack the capacity to see anything beautiful which does not fit a certain mould.

Well it was "common" males who created those images of aphrodite, gaia and marlyn monroe et al that you find so inspiring.

diseases among fat people are much rarer than diet pushers would have you believe.

That must be why things like sleep apnea, high blood pressure and type 2 diabetes are reaching epidemic proportions then.

As for guys, I personally much prefer them thin because women have much more intersting places to put fat, but I don't think they HAVE to loose weight

So you prefer thin men. Fair enough. Well I prefer thin women. I dont think anyone has to lose weight to be with me either. I just personally find it sexually unattractive and I would be dishonest if I said it didn't make a difference.

*Page*

Ah something to think of!!

when you describe a 10 or a 12 guys what is it?

dress size..
trousers size
hippster size
english size
top size?


i say i'm a 14 but thats my hips and boobs my waist(trouser size) is a 10-2..

to a girl a dress size 10 is pretty straight and not so curvy..

its a beach ball(as mentioned above) when waist is either simulr or larger than either boobs or hips.

also you need to take into consideration that woman come in pear shape or apple shape ect(there are others i just cant think of right now)

Rozie

Well science would suggest that if I get 10 overweight people in a room and give them smaller portions of food they will lose weight. They may not all end up the same size but they will lose weight. Basically you do not get clinically obese by eating lettuce(endecrine/mental disorders aside). How many obese people do you see in times of famine? If it's not down to food intake why are we getting fatter in the west?

Of course if you shove a few people into a room and starve them they'll loose weight. But that's neither practical nor healthy. And even if it's a small amount, they'll put it back on again. There have been numerous documentaries and studies on this, and most agree that people very often tend to be fixed at a certain weight, and find it very difficult to change.
A common theme among those who can't loose weight, or can't find the nergy to loose weight, is that they become much, much happier when they accept themselves and stop trying to fit in with common ideals.

And famine is a state of constant suffering, that's a ridiculous example. And I'm pretty sure they'd get fat as soon as they got a decent amount of food going around. How can you imagine them not?

Err, Size 10 doesn't tend to be shapely
I would disagree. My girlfriend is a size 10 and 5 ft 6 and I would consider her shapely. She has a waist that's smaller than her hips for a start. I know many more size tens and only one isn't "shapely". If you look at how men would describe a woman with their hands, they make an hour glass figure in the air. They do not make the shape of a beach ball.

Well, if you consider it shapely, fine, but there's a lot more shape in a size 16, which is where I like girls to be. Those weights generally aren't hideously fat, they just have more shape. I don't see how more bone can make for more pleasant shapes than a woman of that weight.
And even fat women can have nice shapes. It's all about being open minded. Most people are too embarassed to be attracted to a fat woman.

Well it was "common" males who created those images of aphrodite, gaia and marlyn monroe et al that you find so inspiring.

How does that make a difference? The modern common man is the one with about as much appreciation for true beauty as a wilk.
And actually, those are not commen men, those were artists. People that appreciate beauty.

That must be why things like sleep apnea, high blood pressure and type 2 diabetes are reaching epidemic proportions then.

If you take exactly what's been fed to you by the latest anti-fat medical statistics, that's a fantastic point. Seriously, everything is an epidemic these days. Do you see people collapsing constantly in the street? No. People get sick a lot, that happens.
But for the most point, those diseases affect thinner people too very often. There are plenty of healthy fat people. Being "fat" isn't going to be the healthiest thing, but think of all the things you do every day that are unhealthy. Fat people don't have to be grossly unhealthy.
It's been shown that the healthiest weight to be is slightly overweight.
If you ask me, it's work that causes high blood pressure far more than anything else.
Perhaps our diets aren't quite as healthy as they should be, but if it's happening to well over half the population chances are it's not an individual fat person's fault.

So you prefer thin men. Fair enough. Well I prefer thin women. I dont think anyone has to lose weight to be with me either. I just personally find it sexually unattractive and I would be dishonest if I said it didn't make a difference.

But you're also arguing that being fat is a globaly completely undesirable state to be, just not in your opinion, whereas I am arguing for global acceptance of larger people.

I can't believe how that wonderful piece written by Laura Judd went right over your head. I also don't like how people judge things on statistics and believe they're more correct than a person actually living in that world.
I personally have a strong dislike for thin stomachs on women, I can't see why someone would find it attractive. But I don't think they "Have" to gain weight.

Seraphina

my personal opinion, like so many others, is its all about proportion.
the whole perfect 10 thing is a myth. i would consider myself to be in pretty good shape. i'm pretty fit and i go to the gym regularly. nothing jiggles (except my boobs), but there's no way i'd ever be a size ten. i have hips and an ass that just aint going anywhere. they're not fat, just curvy.
for a start the whole judging on sizes is stupid anyway, considering they vary so much and take very little into account. two girls at size 16 could look drastically different.
the important things are muscle tone, and how and where the weight is carried.
you can get size 10 women with bellies hanging out over their jeans.
with men, i like mine defined. the current bf is almost skinnier than me, which i find a bit odd, but he is much taller than me, muscular and very hot
that doesn't mean i want stick-like guys, but i cant say i like fat. size/weight is irrelevant, but wobbling is not on, i just dont find it attractive, in myself or others.
but each to their own, and i'm fully aware there are plenty of guys out there that would consider me either too fat or too skinny. that's their opinion and im fine with it.

GuanYin

Seraphina wrote:

my personal opinion, like so many others, is its all about proportion.
the whole perfect 10 thing is a myth. i would consider myself to be in pretty good shape. i'm pretty fit and i go to the gym regularly. nothing jiggles (except my boobs), but there's no way i'd ever be a size ten. i have hips and an ass that just aint going anywhere. they're not fat, just curvy.
for a start the whole judging on sizes is stupid anyway, considering they vary so much and take very little into account. two girls at size 16 could look drastically different.
the important things are muscle tone, and how and where the weight is carried.
you can get size 10 women with bellies hanging out over their jeans.
with men, i like mine defined. the current bf is almost skinnier than me, which i find a bit odd, but he is much taller than me, muscular and very hot
that doesn't mean i want stick-like guys, but i cant say i like fat. size/weight is irrelevant, but wobbling is not on, i just dont find it attractive, in myself or others.
but each to their own, and i'm fully aware there are plenty of guys out there that would consider me either too fat or too skinny. that's their opinion and im fine with it.

Nah, I wouldn't ever have said you were "fat".

Seraphina

edit: ahh syke.
hadn't a clue who you were for a minute and i was wondering how you knew me

i like your use of inverted comma's
very ambiguous

iguana

*Page* wrote:

Ah something to think of!!

when you describe a 10 or a 12 guys what is it?

dress size..
trousers size
hippster size
english size
top size?


i say i'm a 14 but thats my hips and boobs my waist(trouser size) is a 10-2..

to a girl a dress size 10 is pretty straight and not so curvy..

its a beach ball(as mentioned above) when waist is either simulr or larger than either boobs or hips.

also you need to take into consideration that woman come in pear shape or apple shape ect(there are others i just cant think of right now)

The size is generally governed by waist size. If your waist is 28" you are a size 10. If your waist is 30" you're a size 12. And so on.

Your hips and chest might mean that you don't fit in all size 10-12 clothing but that is what you are generally considered to be. If you have difficulty finding clothing this can be helped by being aware of the target age group of the manufacturer. Shops such as Top Shop and Miss Selfridge aim mainly at teenagers so normally their clothing is fairly "straight". Stores such as Wallaces are aimed at the 25-45 market so generally have more curvey clothing. This is why a size 10 is never just a size 10.

And rozie- A size 10 can be perfectly curvy, I wear size 8-10 clothing. I have a 27-28 inch waist, but my breasts and hips are both 38-39 inches. That's a more than obvious curve.

Wibbs

Of course if you shove a few people into a room and starve them they'll loose weight. But that's neither practical nor healthy. And even if it's a small amount, they'll put it back on again.

They put it on again because they go back to their old eating/exercise habits(for many different reasons).

The modern common man is the one with about as much appreciation for true beauty as a wilk.

Yes we're obviously all insensitive idiots. BTW what's a wilk?

There have been numerous documentaries and studies on this, and most agree that people very often tend to be fixed at a certain weight, and find it very difficult to change.

So if we are "fixed" at a certain weight why than are we getting fatter these days? what's your explanation? With rare exceptions humans in the "wild" are not fat.

If you take exactly what's been fed to you by the latest anti-fat medical statistics, that's a fantastic point. Seriously, everything is an epidemic these days./But for the most point, those diseases affect thinner people too very often.

Eh no they don't. Type 2 diabetes used to be known as late onset diabetes. Not any more. I personally know people in their teens and twenties with it and guess what, they're all overweight. Outside of genetic problems it's a rare disease outside of the west.

People get sick a lot, that happens

Ever wonder why? With many "modern" diseases it's down to diet and excess weight gain.

There are plenty of healthy fat people. Being "fat" isn't going to be the healthiest thing, but think of all the things you do every day that are unhealthy. Fat people don't have to be grossly unhealthy.

Certainly there are thin people who's lifestyle puts them at risk but being fat is still unhealthy.

It's been shown that the healthiest weight to be is slightly overweight.

By whom? Please post a link to back that one up. There was some research that showed that men who retained more muscle mass into middle age were healthier. Muscle not fat. If this were true then it wouldn't be called overweight it would be called normal.

Perhaps our diets aren't quite as healthy as they should be, but if it's happening to well over half the population chances are it's not an individual fat person's fault.

Our diets aren't as healthy as they used to be ergo we're fatter(sedentary lifestyle doesn't help either). I never said it was anyones fault, but if half a population smoked surely it would still be the individual's responsibility to give up smoking? People seem to have no problem with that logic. Why not extend that to overeating? In any case, a man or woman on a healthy diet would be thinner. As I pointed out before the only proven way to radically extend lifespan in higher animals is by adopting a low calorie/high nutrient diet.

I can't believe how that wonderful piece written by Laura Judd went right over your head.

It didn't. I say fair play to her. She comes across as a nice woman(a tad overdone in the self esteem dept, but our US cousins tend to go overboard for that sort o' thing), but that doesn't take away from the fact that she is generally more likely to suffer from heart disease, diabetes, arthritis, hypertension etc. I also find it interesting that she wears a corset in those photos. A piece of clothing designed to reduce the size of the belly and give the impression of an hourglass shape.

In the end I would be of the opinion that if you find fat people attractive, more power to you. If you don't (as I don't), then kindly extend the same courtesy of choice I extend to you.

*Page*

also you need to take into consideration that woman come in pear shape or apple shape

Pear is a better place to be health and attractive wise. TBH apple shape just turns me right off.

Scarinae

iguana wrote:

The size is generally governed by waist size. If your waist is 28" you are a size 10. If your waist is 30" you're a size 12. And so on.

No, I don't go with that theory... Cos that would make me a size 10 in general, which I'm not... I'm one of those girls who has that annoying shape where I have a tiny waist and relatively flat stomach, but I have wide hips... Makes jeans almost impossible to find, because they're either too big for my waist or two small for my hips - people always say "you'll have no problem giving birth!" but somehow I don't find that comforting when I'm despairing at ever finding anything to fit me

Sangre

God Rozie, you just have way too many points too rebutt...its too easy.
Wibbs can do it for me

Anyway, lets clear some stuff up and stop using weight as a gauge.

Lets try body fat percentage or bf% - the real wibbly indicator.

Rozie why are you claiming people don't like curvy women? Nearly every man does but you can by curvy and not overweight.

WhiteWashMan

i think the important thing is that men love curvey women.
after all, 99% of blokes here have looked at porn, and they arent exactly boyish now.

on the other hand, no one likes a fattie. and im not talking Rubinesk here. im not talking chubby, im talking plain out 'my tits go down to my ankles and my belly overshadows my feet, and you can play olympic handball on my ass' fat.

now thats just fetish territory.

as for what rozie is saying, who fúcking knows...
as for marylin monroe, come on now, one of the sex icons of last cetnury? hell, id do her twice!

but it is true that the shape of clothes doesn not accurately reflect the size of a person. i know people who wear a size 16, which is considered on the large side, but only becuase they cant get their boobs into anything smaller from certain shops. it appears that half of the fashion houses on the main street are designed for the teeny waifs that now roam the streets waiting for any breeze to come and blow them up into the sky.

peckerhead

[HTML]I have a 27-28 inch waist, but my breasts and hips are both 38-39 inches[/HTML]

Any chance of a pic...?

Aurther Hugh

WhiteWashMan wrote:

i think the important thing is that men love curvey women.

Well, whatever a man likes is what a woman should be afterall. In reality most bloke I know fancy the skinnier girls and girls want to be the skinnier girls and in between that there is a lot of jealousy.

Sangre

Not fat doesnt mean not curvy
Get that into you people!

Zulu

Rozie wrote:

That's a ****ing ridiculous thing to say. You can't compare the two.

I can, and I just did.

Having hair is a very masculine thing to have, which is why it isn't attractive. Being slightly large isn't, in fact, it's very womanly.

having hairy arm pits is human, but very unattractive. Being "slightly large" means nothing; being FAT isn't womanly, it's ugly.

That's your precise explanation. Now, offer one for fat people, please.

"Precise explination"? What the hell are you babbling on about now? You want me to explain fat people? - Ok, the eat too much and don't exercise.

Look at Marylin Monroe, or going back, most godesses - Aphrodite and even more so Gaia were depicted as being rather shapely, some even large.
What ever happened to the large mistress figure?

Indeed. Most women dipicted in earlier pictures (Pre/post renaissance) appear "chubby" (not FAT). Why? because that was attractive then. Famine and desiese were rife. People were chubby because the could afford food. There were considered more attractive, and could afford paintings of themselves etc..

Why the change? Why are shapely women no longer attractive?

Shapely women are attractive. FAT women aren't.

It's not "the truth" - it's your personal opinion, dear

It is the truth. Get over it dear.

Mine isn't so much of a personal opinion as a little push for global acceptance.

How noble. Now if only you could lose the condescending tone, we could push for a Nobel peace prize.

How is it denial? Denying that they're big? WHAT are they denying?

I was sugesting that YOU may be in denyal.

Should they just accept they're ugly and need to loose weight?

Ughy is a harsh word, but if they are fat, and they wish to be attractive - Yes.

And while I quite like larger women, it's not just because of my personal like that I think my opinion is valid. It's because well, it's ****ing cruel on people that just can't loose weight, or people that don't want to.

The truth can hurt people. My advice to them is to deal with it. You can't live your life ignoring problems just because it might upset somebody.

Exactly what a thread like this needs is people talking from real personal experience not just "I Like Anorexic girls because they're thin".

"Real personal experience" but without being "****ing cruel on people that just can't loose weight, or people that don't want to".
Let me get this straight, be open and honest about real life, but tip-toe around sensitive subjects? ....or is it that you just want me to apologise for not having the same opinion as you and shut up?

Zulu

Rozie wrote:

What I consider "slightly large", he'd consider ****ing huge. I consider "slightly large" to be 16+

I'm not "up" on womens sizes, but your probably right judging by the rest of your post.

This is halarious - I almost fell off my seat laughing:

I care how other people feel about themselves.

Bull****. You are a common male so you do not find it attractive. You lack the capacity to see anything beautiful which does not fit a certain mould.

You care alright.

I can find a fat girl just as attractive as a thin girl. You, cannot, because you are closed minded, or just do not like larger women.

He's being open and honest about what he finds attractive. Fat girls don't do it for him. That's not being closed minded. I don't find men attractive, but I'm open minded, and accept homosexuality. I don't find fat women attractive, but I accept that some men do.

unless it's essential to their health(which it ISN'T, diseases among fat people are much rarer than diet pushers would have you believe).

That's just a lie.

"Most people think they're unattractive, so I think they are too". Do you not see yourself working with the flock?

...ahh now I see. :rolleyes: In life, living "outside" the flock isn't cool. Being yourself is cool.
If you happen to think in a way that differs to everyone else - good for you. If everyone else agrees with you - good for you. Trying to be someone/something your not, just because you don't want to appear to be "one of the crowd" is pathetic. You'll believe me when you've gone through puberty.

I suffer from major self image issues and I don't need this crap just because I weigh a little more.

...as I said earlier "perhaps this is hitting a raw nerve for you, my suggestion would be: if you're going to let this get to you, or take it personally - don't read the thread"

Leave behind the weak of the pack. Even most animals have evolved beyond that.

emmm this is going OT, but again you're wrong. Most animals live by that one golden rule. (I say most, because there is probaby one instance. Dolphin's prehaps. I'd be amazed if there were any others.)

I don't need to be told I'm ugly because I'm large. I can be. I'm not entirely unfit, and I'm surprisingly agile for my weight. Damn, now you're making me feel fat when I'm only pudgy. This is exactly what happens.

This is supposed to be a discussion about "how big is too big? in terms of fashion etc." don't take it personally.

I think that woman is beautiful. A little too foldy and perhaps a little too large for my liking, but in general, still beautiful.

I find her very unattractive. Ugly is harsh - but I never would want to see her naked. Ever.

kittenkiller

I think Zulu & Rozie'd make such a cute couple!

kittenkiller

Until they killed each other!

koneko

Marilyn Monroe was curvy, not fat, so stop using her as your example for everything:

http://www.snopes.com/movies/actors/mmdress.htm

At her "worst" she was 140lbs, so 200lbs+ people can stop using her as an example now.

ARGINITE

Marilyn Monroe was kinda curvy but more on the thin side of things tho.

Zulu

kittenkiller wrote:

I think Zulu & Rozie'd make such a cute couple!

Something tells me I'm not his/her type.

*Page*

seen some of Marilyn's dresses yesterday on the telly, some shots of her wearing them and then this hidious girl wearing one! now the girl in the dress was "fat" Marilyn was of a slender build with a wide a$$.

she's the most beautiful woman ever!

iguana

Zulu wrote:

emmm this is going OT, but again you're wrong. Most animals live by that one golden rule. (I say most, because there is probaby one instance. Dolphin's prehaps. I'd be amazed if there were any others.)

Umm, I think most kinds of dogs (maybe not all) tend to look after the weak members of their packs. It's one of the traits which makes them a good companion for elderly or disabled humans. They tend toward loyalty to their packs.

Ok, back on topic.

iguana

Fishie wrote:

No, I don't go with that theory... Cos that would make me a size 10 in general, which I'm not... I'm one of those girls who has that annoying shape where I have a tiny waist and relatively flat stomach, but I have wide hips... Makes jeans almost impossible to find, because they're either too big for my waist or two small for my hips - people always say "you'll have no problem giving birth!" but somehow I don't find that comforting when I'm despairing at ever finding anything to fit me

I'm not trying to be funny I'm genuinely curious, but what size do you wear and where do you shop? I was thinking about this thread yesterday and I decided to measure myself and I measure 40-28-40. But despite the fact that my hips and chest are a lot bigger than my waist I can only wear size 8-10 clothing, anything else looks ridiculous on me. If I try a size 12 pants the waist falls down and the crotch hangs between my thighs and the thighs hang off me and the whole bottom gathers around my shins. I think you are quite tall, aren't you? So maybe that is why you can wear wider clothes and I can't, as on me if it doesn't fit properly on the waist it just falls down too much.

I don't think I have a huge amount of problems finding clothing. Height is normally the most difficult factor. I just bought a pair of size 10 jeans which if anything are a little loose. Everyone has problems finding clothes to fit them exactly right. I don't think I have any extra difficulty. Lots of size 10 jeans will not get past my thighs but plenty do, I just choose a baggier leg.

As for tops most slightly stretchy 8-10 tops fit me. They stretch around the chest and cling to my waist. If I wear baggy/too-big tops I tend to look fat and shorter, so I choose clothes that emphasise my waist. If I want to wear something made of non-stretchy material I wear a very supportive bra, as opposed to my usual balconette, this doesn't always work but there are shirts and other tops that are made for people with large busts.

Bottle_of_Smoke

Keira Knightly - slim
Rachael Stevens - curvy
Bridget Jones - fat

4Xcut

Correction:Rachel Stevens-Perfect

*Page*

Bridget Jones - fat

nah she getting there but shes not fat!!!

*Page*

iguana wrote:

I'm not trying to be funny I'm genuinely curious, but what size do you wear and where do you shop? I was thinking about this thread yesterday and I decided to measure myself and I measure 40-28-40. But despite the fact that my hips and chest are a lot bigger than my waist I can only wear size 8-10 clothing, anything else looks ridiculous on me. If I try a size 12 pants the waist falls down and the crotch hangs between my thighs and the thighs hang off me and the whole bottom gathers around my shins. I think you are quite tall, aren't you? So maybe that is why you can wear wider clothes and I can't, as on me if it doesn't fit properly on the waist it just falls down too much.

I don't think I have a huge amount of problems finding clothing. Height is normally the most difficult factor. I just bought a pair of size 10 jeans which if anything are a little loose. Everyone has problems finding clothes to fit them exactly right. I don't think I have any extra difficulty. Lots of size 10 jeans will not get past my thighs but plenty do, I just choose a baggier leg.

As for tops most slightly stretchy 8-10 tops fit me. They stretch around the chest and cling to my waist. If I wear baggy/too-big tops I tend to look fat and shorter, so I choose clothes that emphasise my waist. If I want to wear something made of non-stretchy material I wear a very supportive bra, as opposed to my usual balconette, this doesn't always work but there are shirts and other tops that are made for people with large busts.

My waist is a 10 my chest and hips/bum are a 14. i cannot fit into size 10 jeans because my but is a 14 not a 10!

this use to be a big problem! my tshirts were out of shape a round the chest area if i wore a 10 or i'd look huge in a 14.

my fashion now means i have to wear t shirts with fitted shirts over then to show my figure!
and in trousers forget it unless it a 14 and sits on my hips... i cant wear jeans at all they look stupid!!

for years all i wore was baggys t's baggy jeans and hoodies..

not all girls.

dar83

Ok, I've read practically all of this topic and refrained from posting, but now I'm interested in this.
I did a google image search for "curvy" and the second piicture that came up was of a certain *ahem* escorts site. She calls herself "Curvy Cassandra" but to be honest, I dont find this curvy, I find it fat, and its also fairly unattractive.
What do other people think, does this woman fit the "curvy" bracket, or is she fat?