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Renting with pets

124

Comments

  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    No,I mean like asking nicely for the tenant to find a more suitable apartment and compensating the tenant for any costs arising.

    Has the RTB ever let a landlord away with "ah sure it was the agent that said it, don't blame me ".

    The landlord can then come to an appropriate arrangement with the agent that caused the cock up.

    Agent seems to have cocked up for sure and will no doubt get a bollocking from LL, but it’s hard to see how RTB would get involved here if the lease states the tenant needs written consent from the LL (rather than an email from the agent) and the MC rules prohibit pets. I have some sympathy for the tenant, but not enough to think she is due any form of compensation.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,367 ✭✭✭JimmyVik


    Meathman12 wrote: »
    What happens if the decoration fee and deposit do not cover any damage?

    What duration do people live in rented accommodation in Germany? I've heard in media that its seen as a long term option.


    Usually the deposit is for damage.
    All of the decoration fee is for the redecoration. You dont get any of that back.
    In Germany if you damage a house more than your deposit you will pay the difference one way or the other. Its not like Ireland at all.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,367 ✭✭✭JimmyVik


    I've seen some places charge rent per pet (like thirty to fifth euro a month). You could ask can you pay extra rent or give an extra deposit.


    That would be an option alright but its Ireland. Legislation has tied people up, so it cant be done.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,367 ✭✭✭JimmyVik


    No,I mean like asking nicely for the tenant to find a more suitable apartment and compensating the tenant for any costs arising.

    Has the RTB ever let a landlord away with "ah sure it was the agent that said it, don't blame me ".

    The landlord can then come to an appropriate arrangement with the agent that caused the cock up.


    At the end of the day this is a text message (which im betting isnt in anyway binding) against a lease.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 29,436 ✭✭✭✭AndrewJRenko


    JimmyVik wrote: »
    At the end of the day this is a text message (which im betting isnt in anyway binding) against a lease.

    It's an email, not a text message.


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  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    It's an email, not a text message.

    Neither is written.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 29,436 ✭✭✭✭AndrewJRenko


    Dav010 wrote: »
    Neither is written.

    That doesn't mean much, tbh. There are huge transactions taking place entirely electronically every day.

    The more interesting question is how the email commitment stands against the lease agreement. I'd guess that would require specialist expertise to assess.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 489 ✭✭grassylawn


    I rented an apartment and two houses with a lab sized dog without issue


  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    That doesn't mean much, tbh. There are huge transactions taking place entirely electronically every day.

    The more interesting question is how the email commitment stands against the lease agreement. I'd guess that would require specialist expertise to assess.

    It does when the lease says written permission must be obtained from the LL, early in the piece it says she got “written” permission from the Agent, but further down it says it was an email.

    As I’m sure you know, the RTB distinguishes between “written” and other forms of communication in relation to notices, so they have a clear interpretation of what “written” constitutes.


  • Registered Users Posts: 254 ✭✭forestgirl


    Any animal inside a house and the place will have a smell,I have a very large outside dog that comes in but I find myself washing the floors very frequently and he is only in a very short time I'd use dettol in the boiling water to ,I think a lot of pet owners can not get the smell as they are so used to it


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  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    forestgirl wrote: »
    Any animal inside a house and the place will have a smell,I have a very large outside dog that comes in but I find myself washing the floors very frequently and he is only in a very short time I'd use dettol in the boiling water to ,I think a lot of pet owners can not get the smell as they are so used to it
    Febreze built a whole ad campaign around it ...



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Question for landlords.

    What is the position on assistance dogs? e.g. guide dogs.

    Can you refuse them?

    Can MCs ban them?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 342 ✭✭Lesalare


    forestgirl wrote: »
    Any animal inside a house and the place will have a smell,I have a very large outside dog that comes in but I find myself washing the floors very frequently and he is only in a very short time I'd use dettol in the boiling water to ,I think a lot of pet owners can not get the smell as they are so used to it

    A very large dog will have a very different smell to a 3.5kg cat, or a small Jack Russell or Pug etc... All dogs need to be bathed regularly. If you keep your animal clean you house does not smell.

    I have asked numerous mates if they smell any semblance of my cat in my apartment and every single one has said no.

    Houses only smell of dog if the owners don't wash their dogs regularly. I know this as my sister's house stinks of dog at time when she brings them out walking, they get wet and she doesn't bathe them.


  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Question for landlords.

    What is the position on assistance dogs? e.g. guide dogs.

    Can you refuse them?

    Can MCs ban them?

    Isn’t a guide dog still a dog?


  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Dav010 wrote: »
    Isn’t a guide dog still a dog?

    It is, but assistance dogs like guide dogs are not pets.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 29,436 ✭✭✭✭AndrewJRenko


    Question for landlords.

    What is the position on assistance dogs? e.g. guide dogs.

    Can you refuse them?

    Can MCs ban them?

    There was a blind nun who won a case against the Wicked Wolf in Blackrock some years back when they refused her entry with her guide dog. I'd imagine the same non-discrimination principle applies to property letting.


  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    A quick google and I answered my own question - it says it is indeed covered by the Equal Status Act 2010, and a landlord can't deny or evict someone on the grounds of owning an assistance dog.

    But I guess like anything else, they will find another way to avoid renting to the person with one.


  • Registered Users Posts: 254 ✭✭forestgirl


    Lesalare wrote: »
    A very large dog will have a very different smell to a 3.5kg cat, or a small Jack Russell or Pug etc... All dogs need to be bathed regularly. If you keep your animal clean you house does not smell.

    I have asked numerous mates if they smell any semblance of my cat in my apartment and every single one has said no.

    Houses only smell of dog if the owners don't wash their dogs regularly. I know this as my sister's house stinks of dog at time when she brings them out walking, they get wet and she doesn't bathe them.

    I understand all that and my house has no smell of dog but not everyone is as clean as the next person so a landlord has to have one rule for all and quite rightly,I wonder would the renters be as quick to put a dog in the house if it was their own?


  • Registered Users Posts: 254 ✭✭forestgirl


    forestgirl wrote: »
    I understand all that and my house has no smell of dog but not everyone is as clean as the next person so a landlord has to have one rule for all and quite rightly,I wonder would the renters be as quick to put a dog in the house if it was their own?

    Anyway its so unfair to have a pet in a house they want and need fresh air all the time,how about what a pet needs


  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    forestgirl wrote: »
    Anyway its so unfair to have a pet in a house they want and need fresh air all the time,how about what a pet needs

    My (now deceased) cocker spaniel would argue with you about that. She hated going outside if it was cold, or wet! She loved her nice warm cosy basket.


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 342 ✭✭Lesalare


    forestgirl wrote: »
    Anyway its so unfair to have a pet in a house they want and need fresh air all the time,how about what a pet needs

    By reading your posts, I am gathering your dog lives outside for most of the time?


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,845 ✭✭✭Antares35


    Dav010 wrote: »
    It does when the lease says written permission must be obtained from the LL, early in the piece it says she got “written” permission from the Agent, but further down it says it was an email.

    As I’m sure you know, the RTB distinguishes between “written” and other forms of communication in relation to notices, so they have a clear interpretation of what “written” constitutes.

    An email is legally binding and constitutes "in writing" for the purposes of the law.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 342 ✭✭Lesalare


    forestgirl wrote: »
    Anyway its so unfair to have a pet in a house they want and need fresh air all the time,how about what a pet needs

    Domesticated animals such as cats and dogs should be kept inside for a larger % than they should be outside. Personally I cannot stand folk who get such 'pets' and say "They live outside!".. It's just not part of my make up to leave a cat or a dog outside for 90% of its life.

    If I had a dog I'd walk it 2 - 3 times per day but other than that it lives inside.
    My cat is an indoor cat for a plethora of reasons, but goes outside on my very large balcony.


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,845 ✭✭✭Antares35


    Dav010 wrote: »
    Isn’t a guide dog still a dog?

    Bus drivers can refuse a dog but not a guide dog. Go figure.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 342 ✭✭Lesalare


    forestgirl wrote: »
    Anyway its so unfair to have a pet in a house they want and need fresh air all the time,how about what a pet needs

    I think it's much more unfair to leave these pets out in the pouring rain and cold. Why bother getting a pet if one sticks it outside all the time?


  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Antares35 wrote: »
    An email is legally binding and constitutes "in writing" for the purposes of the law.

    The RTB would disagree, a rent review and eviction notice must be in writing, an email is invalid. Tenancies disputes are covered by the RTB.


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,845 ✭✭✭Antares35


    Dav010 wrote: »
    The RTB would disagree, a rent review and eviction notice must be in writing, an email is invalid. Tenancies disputes are covered by the RTB.

    Were you not talking about tenant permission a minute ago?


  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Antares35 wrote: »
    Were you not talking about tenant permission a minute ago?

    Are you saying that the RTB interprets “in writing” differently depending on the type of correspondence? What are you basing this on?

    https://www.rtb.ie/ending-a-tenancy/sample-notices-of-termination

    Point no.1, “in writing” is clarified, an email will not suffice.


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,845 ✭✭✭Antares35


    Dav010 wrote: »
    Are you saying that the RTB interprets “in writing” differently depending on the type of correspondence? What are you basing this on?

    No, it looks like you are though. I'm speaking generally that the law does recognise an email as "in writing".

    Edit, again you're talking now about termination of tenancy whereas before it was tenant permission to have a dog..which is it?


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  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Antares35 wrote: »
    No, it looks like you are though. I'm speaking generally that the law does recognise an email as "in writing".

    Edit, again you're talking now about termination of tenancy whereas before it was tenant permission to have a dog..which is it?

    Again, I’m talking about what the RTB interprets “in writing” to mean. If they interpret it to mean an email in a dispute in relation to a lease, how could they at the same time prohibit an email to be used as a written means of serving a notice?

    As a matter of interest, are you saying that as an email is recognised legally as a form of written communication, the RTB are wrong to interpret the term “in writing” in the RTA legislation as a written document for serving notice?


  • Registered Users Posts: 254 ✭✭forestgirl


    Lesalare wrote: »
    By reading your posts, I am gathering your dog lives outside for most of the time?

    He lives outside all of the time,we are in the country side and he has all the space he needs and only goes into his own house at bedtime,I do understand some dogs loving being by the fire that was my last dog but from a land lords perspective they may not want them.I absolutely love dogs and agree they need love as much as food and to many people get them as toys and never even bring them for a walk


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 29,436 ✭✭✭✭AndrewJRenko


    Dav010 wrote: »
    The RTB would disagree, a rent review and eviction notice must be in writing, an email is invalid. Tenancies disputes are covered by the RTB.

    This isn't a rent review or eviction notice though.


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,845 ✭✭✭Antares35


    Dav010 wrote: »
    Again, I’m talking about what the RTB interprets “in writing” to mean. If they interpret it to mean an email in a dispute in relation to a lease, how could they at the same time prohibit an email to be used as a written means of serving a notice?

    As a matter of interest, are you saying that as an email is recognised legally as a form of written communication, the RTB are wrong to interpret the term “in writing” in the RTA legislation as a written document for serving notice?
    I have no idea whether the RTB are compliant or not and I don't really care, I'm simply making the point that you can't just disregard an email on the basis that "it's an email and therefore not in writing".


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,845 ✭✭✭Antares35


    forestgirl wrote: »
    He lives outside all of the time,we are in the country side and he has all the space he needs and only goes into his own house at bedtime,I do understand some dogs loving being by the fire that was my last dog but from a land lords perspective they may not want them.I absolutely love dogs and agree they need love as much as food and to many people get them as toys and never even bring them for a walk

    A dog also needs companionship and not be stored outside when it's sub zero temperature. Being "in the countryside" is irrelevant to him having "all the space he needs" unless he is free to roam said countryside, and I'm sure you are aware that is not advised.


  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    This isn't a rent review or eviction notice though.

    No, but in that particular case the lease stipulated the permission must be “in writing from the landlord”, if she disputes it with the RTB, their interpretation of what “in writing” means may not include emails, as it does not in other correspondence. I do appreciate that the permission was not a notice, but the RTB are clear on what they perceive “in writing” to mean. In other legal matters, email is accepted as “in writing”, but that seemingly cannot be applied to tenancies, otherwise emails would be an accepted form to satisfy the RTA requirement for the correspondence to be “in writing”, we know that is not the case.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 1,045 ✭✭✭hamburgham


    forestgirl wrote: »
    Any animal inside a house and the place will have a smell,I have a very large outside dog that comes in but I find myself washing the floors very frequently and he is only in a very short time I'd use dettol in the boiling water to ,I think a lot of pet owners can not get the smell as they are so used to it

    That is just not true.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,045 ✭✭✭hamburgham


    Lesalare wrote: »
    A very large dog will have a very different smell to a 3.5kg cat, or a small Jack Russell or Pug etc... All dogs need to be bathed regularly. If you keep your animal clean you house does not smell.

    I have asked numerous mates if they smell any semblance of my cat in my apartment and every single one has said no.

    Houses only smell of dog if the owners don't wash their dogs regularly. I know this as my sister's house stinks of dog at time when she brings them out walking, they get wet and she doesn't bathe them.

    I never wash my dog and there is absolutely no smell in my house. Granted she never gets wet as she point blank refuses to go out if there’s any hint or rain.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 342 ✭✭Lesalare


    hamburgham wrote: »
    A terrier. I brush her but no never wash her. I can absolutely guarantee that there is no smell in my house.

    Fair enough. Short haired smaller dogs are less akin to smells. Great you regularly brush her and keep her in good shape :)

    My cat is 15 but looks like a kitten. I think she was the runt of the litter. She's not caused me 1 single issue with landlords in all her time over 4 houses be it in Melbourne, Sydney or Dublin. She doesn't smell at all.

    Non animal people are odd.


  • Registered Users Posts: 254 ✭✭forestgirl


    hamburgham wrote: »
    Your dog needs company not just space and it’s often too cold and miserable for them to be outside.

    I guarantee my dog is not lonely at all,we are here all of the time and my dog prefers the really cold weather and rain and he hides away from the sun.I would absolutely not keep a dog and ignore him as that would be just so cruel


  • Registered Users Posts: 492 ✭✭CosmicFool


    We moved into a house early last year and got a puppy unexpectedly a few weeks later. Haven't told the landlord. We trained him quiet well and he hasn't destroyed the place other than a few holes in the garden. Unfortunately the breed was bred to be ratters so that unfortunately isn't easy to train out of him. We keep on top of them.


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  • Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 17,642 Mod ✭✭✭✭Graham


    Mod Note

    folks this is the accommodation & property forum. Please take the general discussion of your pets to the Pets & Petcare forum.

    Some off-topic posts deleted.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,367 ✭✭✭JimmyVik


    Lesalare wrote: »
    A very large dog will have a very different smell to a 3.5kg cat, or a small Jack Russell or Pug etc... All dogs need to be bathed regularly. If you keep your animal clean you house does not smell.

    I have asked numerous mates if they smell any semblance of my cat in my apartment and every single one has said no.

    Houses only smell of dog if the owners don't wash their dogs regularly. I know this as my sister's house stinks of dog at time when she brings them out walking, they get wet and she doesn't bathe them.

    That question is like a wife asking does my bum look big in this.
    There is only one answer you can give, no matter what the real answer is :)

    Houses with dogs and inside cats ALWAYS stink to people who dont live with such pets.

    Before I had my own pet I used to smell the cats or dogs in anyones house i went into that owned one, the second the front door opened. Especially litter trays.
    But since I got my own, i could walk into any house and not know there was a pet there until i saw them.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,367 ✭✭✭JimmyVik


    Antares35 wrote: »
    An email is legally binding and constitutes "in writing" for the purposes of the law.


    Not to the RTB it doesnt.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 29,436 ✭✭✭✭AndrewJRenko


    JimmyVik wrote: »
    Not to the RTB it doesnt.

    Source please?


  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Source please?

    The Residential Tenancies Act states notices must be “in writing”. See sections 22(2) and 62(1).

    The RTB are clear in their interpretation that “in writing” does not include email, see point no.1.

    https://www.rtb.ie/ending-a-tenancy/sample-notices-of-termination

    I concede the tenant was not being served a notice when she was given permission to keep the dog, merely that the RTB construe the term “in writing” to exclude emails.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,367 ✭✭✭JimmyVik


    Source please?


    https://www.rtb.ie/


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 29,436 ✭✭✭✭AndrewJRenko


    Dav010 wrote: »
    The Residential Tenancies Act states notices must be “in writing”. See sections 22(2) and 62(1).

    The RTB are clear in their interpretation that “in writing” does not include email, see point no.1.

    https://www.rtb.ie/ending-a-tenancy/sample-notices-of-termination

    I concede the tenant was not being served a notice when she was given permission to keep the dog, merely that the RTB construe the term “in writing” to exclude emails.

    That's specifically in the context of a notice of termination. There is nothing to suggest that applies to all communications.


  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    That's specifically in the context of a notice of termination. There is nothing to suggest that applies to all communications.

    Maybe you should consider, If emails are allowed in other communications where “in writing” is required, why not in notices?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 29,436 ✭✭✭✭AndrewJRenko


    Dav010 wrote: »
    Maybe you should consider, If emails are allowed in other communications where “in writing” is required, why not in notices?

    Where does it say that "in writing " is required for other communication? And if in writing is required, why is the supposedly professional estate agent communicating by email?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,367 ✭✭✭JimmyVik


    Where does it say that "in writing " is required for other communication? And if in writing is required, why is the supposedly professional estate agent communicating by email?


    He has explained this to you at least 10 times.
    You are the only person who cant get to grips with it.


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