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25-09-2019, 13:45   #46
stoneill
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Rudy Giuliani is gas!
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25-09-2019, 14:14   #47
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The Federalist completely discredited the Whistleblower because their lawyer who is an experienced whistleblower and security clearance legal expert at the Pentagon, had the audacity to intern for Chuck Schumer and Hillary Clinton for a few months in 2001 (a mere 18 years ago). Clearly, a deep state Democrat operative

“Andrew Bakaj, now a managing partner at the Compass Rose Legal Group, interned for Schumer in the spring of 2001 and for Clinton in the fall of the same year, according to Bakaj’s LinkedIn page. More recently, Bakaj has worked as an official in the CIA and Pentagon and specializes in whistleblower and security clearances in his legal practice.”

Fox and Friends also trying to smooth things over by saying there are a ‘few words’ in the transcript that ‘will raise eyebrows’ according to the Fox News division (whom either spoke to someone who saw the transcript or somehow has an early version of the transcript).

Republican Senators and Reps also all over social media calling this a witch hunt and presidential harassment of course.

Full on panic mode in the GOP.
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25-09-2019, 14:17   #48
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He won’t drop out. If he drops out he will be indicted the minute he leaves office for crimes highlighted in the Mueller report. Statute of limitations would expire before the end of a 2nd presidential term.
I thought the Statute of Limitations stops while he's President, and therefore wouldn't expire, but rather resumes once he leaves office?
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25-09-2019, 14:20   #49
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I thought the Statute of Limitations stops while he's President, and therefore wouldn't expire, but rather resumes once he leaves office?
Nope. Clock is still ticking. House introduced a bill to freeze it but you can guess how far that will go in this government.

https://thinkprogress.org/house-bill...-79c8aad87d27/
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25-09-2019, 15:09   #50
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On the face of it, this seems like a big deal and certainly everyone's pushing the "this time it's for real" narrative.

But the Trump admin is already trying to get ahead of this, owning the narrative by releasing dribs and drabs of information of varying truthfulness.

They're going to use a technique called the Firehose of falsehood, where you give the illusion of being open and honest, when in reality you are giving a series of conflicting statements on the topic in quick succession. Guiliani's interview last week is a perfect example; in the same interview he said that he didn't and did ask Ukraine to investigate Biden. This wasn't accidental, it's intentional. Now people think it's 50:50 whether or not he did ask for Ukraine's help. If you occupy every position simultaneously, you dont' have to defend any of them.

The end result is that nobody is entirely sure what's true and what's not, fatigue sets in and people move on. They've used this technique successfully with teh Stormy Daniels case, Trump Jr.'s Russian consipiracy, the Muller report, and they will try it again now.

So I won't hold my breath until there's anything approaching a proper hearing.
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25-09-2019, 16:04   #51
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This seems to be the key excerpt from what has been released/unclassified so far by the white house. It's not an exact transcript, more a memo based on the notes taken by people listening in.



I can't see anything in that which would get him in too much trouble, all a bit vague and general and nothing he can really be nailed on.
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25-09-2019, 16:13   #52
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This seems to be the key excerpt from what has been released/unclassified so far by the white house. It's not an exact transcript, more a memo based on the notes taken by people listening in.



I can't see anything in that which would get him in too much trouble, all a bit vague and general and nothing he can really be nailed on.
Legal experts disagree

https://www.mediaite.com/online/smok...tter-meltdown/
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25-09-2019, 16:19   #53
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That's just a whole load of tweets from people who may or may not be legal experts (The website doesn't say). Most of them seem to be political commentators.
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25-09-2019, 16:21   #54
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Key section

Quote:
Zelenskyy:
We are ready to continue to cooperate for the next steps specifically we are almost ready to buy more Javelins from the United States for defense purposes.

Trump:
I would like you to do us a favor though because our country has been through a lot and Ukraine knows a lot about it.
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25-09-2019, 16:22   #55
 
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Interestingly Trump's approval ratings were sitting at a 2 1/2 year high yesterday. I'm not sure how this story has affected that.
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25-09-2019, 16:40   #56
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Interestingly Trump's approval ratings were sitting at a 2 1/2 year high yesterday. I'm not sure how this story has affected that.
https://projects.fivethirtyeight.com...ex_cid=rrpromo

Higher than it has been for sure, but still only 43%, and it's been in the 40-43% range for pretty much the last 18 months.

There is a definite floor and ceiling to his support, reflecting the increase in partisanship in the US in recent years. On those numbers, he would find it very difficult to get re-elected.
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25-09-2019, 16:44   #57
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I don't see anything wrong with asking Ukraine to assist in the criminal investigation of Biden.

Same. Not like Trump is the first to do something like that. Unless we have all got amnesia and forget the "Russia collusion" farce and who instigated it.
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25-09-2019, 16:46   #58
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The impeachment hearings are going to be more than just Ukraine though, she's instructed each of the Chairs of the House committees to bring forward their strongest arguments against Trump, so it'll likely run into emoluments violations, obstruction as per the Mueller Report etc. It also gives those committees greater powers to hold hearings and subpeona information/witnesses even before it gets to the Senate for a vote.

Sounds like more fishing to me. The Dems are going to have to face reality. If there was anything on Trump they would have found it ages ago. They have been basically investigating him since he was elected.
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25-09-2019, 16:50   #59
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It's not the full transcript.
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25-09-2019, 16:54   #60
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I think I saw somewhere that it was reported that Trump mentioned Biden 8 times.

So, as we already knew, it's not the full memo of the conversation. And as it has the beginning and end of the conversation, we're not just seeing one uninterrupted excerpt from it either. And there's no way to know at what points chunks of dialogue have been cut out.

From what I've seen so far, there's nothing specific enough to be a smoking gun or (imo) anything close to it.

But more will be coming out in the next few days i imagine.
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