Advertisement
If you have a new account but are having problems posting or verifying your account, please email us on hello@boards.ie for help. Thanks :)
Hello all! Please ensure that you are posting a new thread or question in the appropriate forum. The Feedback forum is overwhelmed with questions that are having to be moved elsewhere. If you need help to verify your account contact hello@boards.ie
Hi all,
Vanilla are planning an update to the site on April 24th (next Wednesday). It is a major PHP8 update which is expected to boost performance across the site. The site will be down from 7pm and it is expected to take about an hour to complete. We appreciate your patience during the update.
Thanks all.

How do Pro Life campaigners want women who have abortions punished?

Options
24567…25

Comments

  • Options
    #32
    Donald Trump
    Registered Users Posts: 19,032 ✭✭✭✭Donald Trump


    Grayson wrote: »
    Sure we do.

    Look stop twisting things.

    I said "childless".


  • Options
    #33
    Grayson
    Registered Users Posts: 16,126 ✭✭✭✭Grayson


    Donald Trump wrote: »
    Look stop twisting things.

    I said "childless".

    She didn't have a child. She was pregnant but hadn't given birth.


  • Options
    #34
    Donald Trump
    Registered Users Posts: 19,032 ✭✭✭✭Donald Trump


    Grayson wrote: »
    She didn't have a child. She was pregnant but hadn't given birth.

    Was she "with child"? Ever hear that expression?

    This is so fucking infantile.

    Trying to twist stupid things.

    But hey, if you want to say that anyone who is pro-life is also pro-"forcing women to get pregnant and have a child" (i.e. getting raped) then go ahead and spout that line.


  • Options
    #35
    applehunter
    Registered Users Posts: 6,020 ✭✭✭applehunter


    I'll speak for the unborn child.

    "I would prefer to live than be killed."


  • Options
    #36
    dudara
    Registered Users Posts: 33,519 ✭✭✭✭dudara


    It's an interesting argument to explore, and I don't think it's one that's addressed often.

    Pro-life people believe that abortion is murder; they believe that the life of a person is taken through the act of abortion.

    If a crime has been committed, then the wrongdoer should be punished. What punishment do the pro-life campaign deem appropriate for the crime?


  • Advertisement
  • Options
    #37
    applehunter
    Registered Users Posts: 6,020 ✭✭✭applehunter


    one for the legal egales.

    I Presume a custodial sentence.


  • Options
    #38
    Grayson
    Registered Users Posts: 16,126 ✭✭✭✭Grayson


    applehunter wrote: »
    one for the legal egales.

    I Presume a custodial sentence.

    It is here. Most people don't realise that there's a 14 year sentence for anyone who is knowingly involved in an abortion.

    The freedom to travel option is only allowed because it was included in an earlier referendum. So travel to the UK and you're ok. Buy pills from the UK and take them here and you could get 14 years in jail. As far as I'm aware it's anyone involved. So if I let someone use my credit card or have the pills delivered to my place or even say "Take them here so you're not alone" and I could face a 14 year sentence.


  • Options
    #39
    gandalf
    Registered Users Posts: 26,458 ✭✭✭✭gandalf


    Knowing the Anti-choice brigade they probably want the Magdalene laundries reopened and the women interned there for their "sins".


  • Options
    #40
    nozzferrahhtoo
    Registered Users Posts: 9,336 ✭✭✭nozzferrahhtoo


    applehunter wrote: »
    I'll speak for the unborn child. "I would prefer to live than be killed."

    Not sure what anthropomorphizing the fetus and presuming to know it's mind does for the discussion myself.


  • Options
    #41
    AbusesToilets
    Registered Users Posts: 9,957 ✭✭✭AbusesToilets


    I always am struck by the contrast in those who decry abortion and argue so passionately for the right to life for a fetus, yet couldn't give a toss for the child (and mother) after birth.

    Abortion isn't some brutal, traumatic experience. It's a normal out patient medical procedure, little different from getting a tooth pulled.


  • Advertisement
  • Options
    #42
    lawlolawl
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,678 ✭✭✭lawlolawl


    nozzferrahhtoo wrote: »
    Not sure what anthropomorphizing the fetus and presuming to know it's mind does for the discussion myself.

    What mind?

    It doesn't have one at that stage.


  • Options
    #43
    Burial.
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,131 ✭✭✭Burial.


    AbusesToilets wrote: »

    Abortion isn't some brutal, traumatic experience. It's a normal out patient medical procedure, little different from getting a tooth pulled.

    What a ridiculous statement. You couldn't be any further from the reality.


  • Options
    #44
    rjpf1980
    Registered Users Posts: 387 ✭✭rjpf1980


    DEFTLEFTHAND wrote: »
    I don't think they do tbh.

    I don't think that anybody out there embraces the reality of what an abortion is. It's a horrendous experience for any woman to go through. It's something that they will have to live for the rest of their lives.

    Life is not black and white, sometimes women might need that choice to terminate the child they're carrying.

    Don't forget that they're could a father suffering for it too.

    Be very careful before you judge a couple who decide on an abortion

    If abortion is "murder" then surely this means the doctors and nurses in the abortion clinic plus the woman patient and anyone who was involved as an "accomplice" - perhaps her boyfriend or husband, mother, sister, best friend - would all go to jail of life? Or in jurisdictions with the death penalty they would all get the needle or hang or be beheaded or get a firing squad etc?

    As I understand abortion in Ireland is a crime carrying a life sentence but for obvious reasons women go to England to get terminations.

    Hypothetically if there was a prohibition on the right to travel abroad for an abortion or else abortion was not available legally outside of this country and women had illegal abortions here then thousands and thousands of women would be in prison for life plus thousands and thousands more who helped them.

    The country would have to build vast prisons to hold all these people plus employ thousands of wardens and armed guards and soldiers to stop mass escapes.


  • Options
    #45
    rjpf1980
    Registered Users Posts: 387 ✭✭rjpf1980


    gandalf wrote: »
    Knowing the Anti-choice brigade they probably want the Magdalene laundries reopened and the women interned there for their "sins".

    If there was to be a ban on the right to travel for an abortion - after all thousands of Irish "babies" are being "killed" in England - any woman between the age of puberty and menopause would have to be screened at the airport's and ports to make sure none of them is pregnant and trying to sneak out.

    No woman could be trusted so any pregnant woman would probably have to be detained until they give birth and watched 24/7 to prevent them from self harming? And if they were caught planning an abortion they would have to be thrown in prison for attempted murder right?

    This is where the pro- life logic goes?


  • Options
    #46
    Depp
    Registered Users Posts: 4,850 ✭✭✭Depp


    very strangely framed op suggesting that all pro life people are this, all pro life people are that. I'd identify as pro life to an extent, if bearing the child for the full term is a danger to the mother I believe aborting the foetus should be allowed but unrestricted abortions shouldn't be allowed. A childs life is not something to be thrown quite literally in a bin just because its inconvenient. Don't think the mother should be punished, going through the experience of an abortion and everything that goes with it is bad enough. Any doctor however who performs the procedure other than in the interest of saving the mothers life, should be struck from the register and punished severely.

    I understand there are some hardliners no denying it but most level headed pro-life people I have come into contact with have similar views on the topic, to suggest most pro-lifers want the mother punished and some want her executed is incredibly disingenuous


  • Options
    #47
    osarusan
    Registered Users Posts: 16,551 ✭✭✭✭osarusan


    rjpf1980 wrote: »

    The country would have to build vast prisons to hold all these people plus employ thousands of wardens and armed guards and soldiers to stop mass escapes.
    rjpf1980 wrote: »
    No woman could be trusted so any pregnant woman would probably have to be detained until they give birth and watched 24/7 to prevent them from self harming? And if they were caught planning an abortion they would have to be thrown in prison for attempted murder right?
    Any chance you could give this shyte a rest?


  • Options
    #48
    rjpf1980
    Registered Users Posts: 387 ✭✭rjpf1980


    Depp wrote: »
    very strangely framed op suggesting that all pro life people are this, all pro life people are that. I'd identify as pro life to an extent, if bearing the child for the full term is a danger to the mother I believe aborting the foetus should be allowed but unrestricted abortions shouldn't be allowed. A childs life is not something to be thrown quite literally in a bin just because its inconvenient. Don't think the mother should be punished, going through the experience of an abortion and everything that goes with it is bad enough. Any doctor however who performs the procedure other than in the interest of saving the mothers life, should be struck from the register and punished severely.

    I understand there are some hardliners no denying it but most level headed pro-life people I have come into contact with have similar views on the topic, to suggest most pro-lifers want the mother punished and some want her executed is incredibly disingenuous

    So the doctors nurses adminstrators secretarial staff at the abortion clinic and maybe the medical waste disposal staff who carry away the "dead babies" should get life or in certain jurisdiction the death penalty right?

    The woman who has an unwanted pregnancy after a drunken one night stand or has a fling with her neighbor or work colleague behind her husband's back or decides to have a termination because she has three kids and can't t cope with a fourth etc etc should NOT get life or a possible death sentence? What she did was "murder" right? That's what you believe right? So surely logic would tell you there should be the same punishment ad any other murder right?

    Thankfully abortion is legal in England and other jurisdictions and women have the freedom to travel.


  • Options
    #49
    rjpf1980
    Registered Users Posts: 387 ✭✭rjpf1980


    osarusan wrote: »
    Any chance you could give this shyte a rest?

    If abortion was unavailable abroad and women were were prohibited from travelling for an abortion - the Irish people were asked in the 1990s if they would restrict the right to travel and the right to information - this is the type of regime that legally would have been enforced.

    In an ideal world without legal abortion is this what pro-life people envision?


  • Options
    #50
    Depp
    Registered Users Posts: 4,850 ✭✭✭Depp


    rjpf1980 wrote: »
    So the doctors nurses adminstrators secretarial staff at the abortion clinic and maybe the medical waste disposal staff who carry away the "dead babies" should get life or in certain jurisdiction the death penalty right?

    where did i say this? the doctor should have his license revoked and he should be punished, also we dont have capital punishment here so theres that...
    rjpf1980 wrote: »
    The woman who has an unwanted pregnancy after a drunken one night stand or has a fling with her neighbor or work colleague behind her husband's back or decides to have a termination because she has three kids and can't t cope with a fourth etc etc should NOT get life or a possible death sentence? What she did was "murder" right? That's what you believe right? So surely logic would tell you there should be the same punishment ad any other murder right?

    an abortion is not a back up form of contraception and shouldn't be under any circumstances. Whatever way you look at it an abortion is the ending of a human life and that shouldn't be done cause you or your partner failed to use correct contraception. We as humans are not perfect and make many mistakes in our lives, we have to live with these mistakes its part of life.
    rjpf1980 wrote: »
    Thankfully abortion is legal in England and other jurisdictions and women have the freedom to travel.

    Those are your views and I respect that, I agree women should have freedom to travel I just don't want it happening here with my tax money helping to fund it.


  • Options
    #51
    Dr Crayfish
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,960 ✭✭✭Dr Crayfish


    A simple tarring and feathering would do maybe? And shave their heads?


  • Advertisement
  • Options
    #52
    Depp
    Registered Users Posts: 4,850 ✭✭✭Depp


    AbusesToilets wrote: »
    I always am struck by the contrast in those who decry abortion and argue so passionately for the right to life for a fetus, yet couldn't give a toss for the child (and mother) after birth.

    Abortion isn't some brutal, traumatic experience. It's a normal out patient medical procedure, little different from getting a tooth pulled.

    https://twitter.com/TwoWomenTravel

    have a read through this before you hop on spouting sh!te, don't agree with these girls' message but to be fair its a lot different to having a tooth pulled


  • Options
    #53
    nozzferrahhtoo
    Registered Users Posts: 9,336 ✭✭✭nozzferrahhtoo


    lawlolawl wrote: »
    What mind? It doesn't have one at that stage.

    That was, I think you will find, my point :)


  • Options
    #54
    rjpf1980
    Registered Users Posts: 387 ✭✭rjpf1980


    Depp wrote: »
    where did i say this? the doctor should have his license revoked and he should be punished, also we dont have capital punishment here so theres that...



    an abortion is not a back up form of contraception and shouldn't be under any circumstances. Whatever way you look at it an abortion is the ending of a human life and that shouldn't be done cause you or your partner failed to use correct contraception. We as humans are not perfect and make many mistakes in our lives, we have to live with these mistakes its part of life.



    Those are your views and I respect that, I agree women should have freedom to travel I just don't want it happening here with my tax money helping to fund it.

    If you believe abortion is murder then the logic follows that the doctor goes goes down for murder plus anyone else involved as an accomplice?

    If I were in a relationship with a woman and we have an unwanted pregnancy and we planned to have an abortion if we intercepted before we went through with it we would guilty of attempted murder wouldn't we? If we followed through on our plan we would be murderers wouldn't we? Accordingly it wouldn't be a mistake - it would be a crime and indeed a capital crime in many jurisdictions if abortion everywhere in the world was considered equivalent with murder.

    If you really believed abortion was murder surely you would want women to be prohibited from travelling for abortions and you would trying to have laws passed that would punish anyone involved in aborting Irish babies to be arrested and punished on Irish soil?

    The logical inconsistencies of your beliefs are so obvious.

    You want abortion to be prohibited but there should be no punishment?


  • Options
    #55
    Rainman16
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 566 ✭✭✭Rainman16


    Decent Skin wrote: »
    Certainly not completely, but it can't be a scenario where only the rich can avail of it either, because if unplanned/unwanted kids are all in poorer families then things will get worse.

    Acknowledging that many money-rich families are poorer in real terms of what really matters, but still.

    What socially liberal people often forget to consider is the financial cost of making an expensive medical procedure, a 'right' of the people. A big factor in my vote on the 8th amendment will be how they plan to pay for it.


  • Options
    #56
    Depp
    Registered Users Posts: 4,850 ✭✭✭Depp


    rjpf1980 wrote: »
    If you believe abortion is murder then the logic follows that the doctor goes goes down for murder plus anyone else involved as an accomplice?

    If I were in a relationship with a woman and we have an unwanted pregnancy and we planned to have an abortion if we intercepted before we went through with it we would guilty of attempted murder wouldn't we? If we followed through on our plan we would be murderers wouldn't we? Accordingly it wouldn't be a mistake - it would be a crime and indeed a capital crime in many jurisdictions if abortion everywhere in the world was considered equivalent with murder.

    If you really believed abortion was murder surely you would want women to be prohibited from travelling for abortions and you would trying to have laws passed that would punish anyone involved in aborting Irish babies to be arrested and punished on Irish soil?

    The logical inconsistencies of your beliefs are so obvious.

    You want abortion to be prohibited but there should be no punishment?

    You seem to be obsessed with putting words into my mouth. I've clearly stated my views twice now and you keep harping on about accomplices and other jurisdictions and things I never mentioned. I never said the doctor should be labelled a murderer, I said he should be punished for performing a practice illegally, I'd be more inclined for the charge to come down the serious malpractice route personally.

    I think women should be allowed travel because my views are my views, and unlike some people don't go about forcing them down the throats of others. The reason I don't want it practiced here is I don't want my tax money or my health insurance premiums funding something I don't agree with morally.

    Its not logical inconsistencies its not being a 'know-it-all-my-way-is-best' d!ck about things.


  • Options
    #57
    eviltwin
    Registered Users Posts: 17,495 ✭✭✭✭eviltwin


    There's plenty of anti choice posters here who can verify for themselves if they believe in punishing women who have abortions and those that assist them. I wouldn't try to second guess anyone's views.

    Personally I've never seen a post here from someone advocating for punishment. The worst I've seen is someone believing that there should be a public registry of those who have had abortions which is a punishment of sorts.

    I've had an abortion, I'm very open about it and I know a good few people who don't support choice. I don't believe any of them want to see me jailed, fined, publicly shamed, whatever. I doubt many who do feel that way would be vocal about it anyway and would keep such opinions to themselves.


  • Options
    #58
    osarusan
    Registered Users Posts: 16,551 ✭✭✭✭osarusan


    rjpf1980 wrote: »
    In an ideal world without legal abortion is this what pro-life people envision?
    Let's not pretend that camps that detain pregnant women until they give birth is anything other than a figment of your imagination.


  • Options
    #59
    rainbow kirby
    Moderators, Regional Abroad Moderators Posts: 26,928 Mod ✭✭✭✭rainbow kirby


    Rainman16 wrote: »
    What socially liberal people often forget to consider is the financial cost of making an expensive medical procedure, a 'right' of the people. A big factor in my vote on the 8th amendment will be how they plan to pay for it.

    The medication required for a first trimester medical abortion costs less than €100. That's not an expensive procedure.


  • Options
    #60
    rjpf1980
    Registered Users Posts: 387 ✭✭rjpf1980


    Depp wrote: »
    You seem to be obsessed with putting words into my mouth. I've clearly stated my views twice now and you keep harping on about accomplices and other jurisdictions and things I never mentioned. I never said the doctor should be labelled a murderer, I said he should be punished for performing a practice illegally, I'd be more inclined for the charge to come down the serious malpractice route personally.

    I think women should be allowed travel because my views are my views, and unlike some people don't go about forcing them down the throats of others. The reason I don't want it practiced here is I don't want my tax money or my health insurance premiums funding something I don't agree with morally.

    Its not logical inconsistencies its not being a 'know-it-all-my-way-is-best' d!ck about things.

    You believe abortion is murder but only believe doctors who perform abortions should be punished for malpractice? LOL


  • Advertisement
  • Options
    #61
    rjpf1980
    Registered Users Posts: 387 ✭✭rjpf1980


    osarusan wrote: »
    Let's not pretend that camps that detain pregnant women until they give birth is anything other than a figment of your imagination.

    Surely if you wanted to prevent the mass murder of unborn babies - that is what abortion is according to pro-lifers - that is the logical road to go down.


Advertisement