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Husky mauls child

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Comments

  • #252
    Cherry Blossom
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,964 ✭✭✭Cherry Blossom


    ducksmalone wrote: »
    your another one thats personalising this....... your out of order posting that comment!

    :confused:
    ducksmalone wrote: »
    how dare you accuse me of bulldozing and bullying my way on here. i can tell passions are very high with you and your baiting will be brushed off and ignored.An outrageous attack on me from someone who is moderating the forum. the only bullying on here has been from people supporting the huskey breed and trying and failing to silence me when all i have done is highlight what the huskey has done to a child who was with her family celebrating a family occasion.

    Well someone's passions are certainly high, but it ain't mine
    ducksmalone wrote: »
    your post: your suggesting that the Huskey was a "lethal weapon"? good god,isnt that the defence of the dog breed smashed into pieces?

    Every dog is no more and no less than what the person who owns it makes it, simples. It matters not if it's a Husky, chihuahua or anything inbetween
    ducksmalone wrote: »
    and to suggest that a family member be charged with GBH? if you truly believe this,if you do,phone ennis garda station rather than having a go at me on Boards.but you dont believe it and you wont phone them,so your post is kinda populist but a load of rubbish to me.

    Bit pointless me doing that when the evidence has been destroyed no? There was me thinking you were concerned that people were not showing sympathy for the child. A toddler was seriously injured here - and your worry seems to be that the person responsible for these terrible injuries should not feel bad about it, wow, just . . . .wow!!!


  • #253
    Hooked
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,817 ✭✭✭Hooked


    Great post Steelgirl!!!


  • #254
    Hellrazer
    Moderators, Arts Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators Posts: 10,733 Mod ✭✭✭✭Hellrazer


    I think everyone needs to calm down a bit.Emotions are running high and some users are getting a bit upset with posts they dont agree with.Any more personal attacks from either side and I will close this thread


  • #255
    Discodog
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,918 ✭✭✭✭Discodog


    Steelgirl wrote: »
    malamutes are not on the restricted dogs list in ireland yet, how long will it take until they are ?

    If Malamute owners & all the rest of us dog owners do nothing then any dog could become banned & not just restricted. Just because the UK is seeing sense & we appear to have an intelligent Minister, for once, doesn't mean that that we out of the woods. There is every possibility that, following a few more attacks, the government might over react. The ISPCA have referred to your breed as dangerous & people need to speak out. If we can't rely on the ISPCA to defend dogs then who can we rely on.
    ducksmalone wrote: »
    i was asked what type of dog i had earlier........ not saying,its not relevant

    Actually it is highly relevant because you probably know that, whatever breed you name, we can find examples of them biting. It is also relevant because you keep focusing on the breed of this dog.

    If, as you say, the owners took in this dog from someone else it opens up another can of worms because we & they, didn't know it's behavioural history & how it had been kept. You also keep going on about the timing of the remarks & that, right now, all we should have is sympathy. But this "attack" follows on from one a week previous & if nothing is questioned then nothing gets learned.

    You have children. Would you consider that a two or three year old child is capable of an unprovoked attack ? Surely the child would of had a reason even if it was the wrong one. I & many experts believe that there is no such thing as an unprovoked attack by a dog. I could go into a lengthy explanation but I suspect that you wouldn't listen. I could also recommend some reading material but you would probably disregard it. A dog attack is always provoked & there are always warning signs.

    It is wrong to make assumptions about the parents but it is equally wrong to make them about the dog. We can't question or assess the dog & we won't question the parents because it is insensitive. As I said before it is easier for everyone to ignore the cause & kill the dog. As the UK have finally realised the only way to prevent dog attacks is to focus on the owners.

    In this case the dog was immediately destroyed because the owners requested it. That should never be allowed to happen because if & I am not suggesting that this is the case here, the dog has been ill trained or badly treated then the owner is responsible. It's a bit like destroying evidence.

    Animal cruelty isn't just about physical pain. Just as with children dog owners have an obligation to raise their dogs to be good citizens. Compare the number of attacks to the number of dogs & you will see that these attacks are very rare so many owners are clearly doing something right.

    Whenever a child is injured questions always get asked because there could be a unpleasant explanation. Take a child to A&E & the doctors will take a view as to how the injury was caused. In these two recent cases we will never know the cause. You can only prevent something if you know what causes it. If your children were injured in a car crash there would be sympathy but it wouldn't stop the Guards investigating whether you were to blame.


  • #256
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    Irish dogs posted this .....

    http://irishdogs.ie/news/2012/04/25/huskies-among-most-dangerous-dogs-study-shows.html


  • #257
    chris_ie
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,212 ✭✭✭chris_ie


    Deleted User wrote: »
    Irish dogs posted this .....

    http://irishdogs.ie/news/2012/04/25/huskies-among-most-dangerous-dogs-study-shows.html

    Bit of a rubbish article really..... alot of people get Huskies for their looks and don't realise how much work is involved with them. They're not trained or socialised properly which is why these things happen.

    Beautiful dogs, I had planned on getting one when we bought our house but after thinking about it and reading up about them we realised we wouldn't be able to put in the time required unfortunately so I'll make do with admiring them from afar.

    A few years back I remember seeing one around the town, it was unique back then as not many people had them. Its crazy the number of people around here that have them now and could bet that very few actually look after them properly which leads to these unfortunate incidents.

    And in the article, its a 'study' by a law firm? If it was some animal specialist it might have some credibility. You could raise a Jack Russel to be more vicious than a Husky if you wanted. Its all about the way the dog is raised, like kids in a way.


  • #258
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    Again both children are home playing after the "mauling" ???


  • #259
    Hooked
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,817 ✭✭✭Hooked


    Deleted User wrote: »
    Irish dogs posted this .....

    http://irishdogs.ie/news/2012/04/25/huskies-among-most-dangerous-dogs-study-shows.html


    Yet again the FACTS have evaded this article. The Limerick attack was NOT a Siberian Husky. And all we have to go on for the recent attack is the press hysteria, a dog apparently given to the family by the previous occupants (I read this yesterday). Did this dog have papers? Was it indeed a Siberian Husky or a "lookalike/mix/cross"?

    And before I'm bashed about being insensitive... I'm defending the BREED once again. And those capable of caring properly for the breed.

    My comments, though perhaps too close in time to the poor childs incident this week are needed to level up the playing field. Husky owners have to speak out NOW while this is fresh in the press and peoples minds. I do apologies to any family members or the children attacked... My gripe is not with the incidents themselves. Or the parents.

    My problem is with the FACTS, or rather lack thereof... in the press and online.

    Both dogs are dead. Neither breed has been confirmed (as far as I'm aware) with IKC registered papers. The Limerick attack was apparently an Alaskan Malamute and the dog in Clare was reported to have been handed down to the family. With papers? Without? Was it indeed a Siberian Husky?

    Will we ever know???


  • #260
    Zapperzy
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,524 ✭✭✭Zapperzy


    Dre as in Dray wrote: »
    Irish dogs posted this .....

    http://irishdogs.ie/news/2012/04/25/huskies-among-most-dangerous-dogs-study-shows.html

    On a website that I would have up to now considered to promote responsible ownership. Not sure why he posted it when he says down the bottom that he agrees with everyone's comments.

    Unless I could read through the actual study can't really comment much on it. Somehow doubt the study takes into account circumstances surrounding attack, proper breed identification or the complete history of the dog.

    Attacks will continue until we start asking why dogs attack. 'x' breed is naturally dangerous will not suffice, it's an easy cop out.

    Bit like a car crash, mr X drives his Toyota into a child, he acts really apologetic so we have sympathy for him and immediately presume there's a fault with the car so we have the car taken away and crushed immediately to prevent further injury, then starts all the news stories about crashed toyotas so people avoid them as they must be faulty, mr X walks away scot free. Does that really happen?


  • #261
    ducksmalone
    Closed Accounts Posts: 78 ✭✭ducksmalone


    MrJoeSoap wrote: »
    A few more newspaper articles, by the sounds of things.

    If anything, this thread has made me more determined to get a malamute or husky puppy. The lack of respect afforded to this beautiful and noble breed of dog in this country is chronic.
    Good man joe,you go out and get a HUSKY(hope that spelling keeps the grammar police happy)how determined do you have to be to get the dog? id imagine there are pounds up and down the country with Huskys, especially in light of the child attack last weekend.

    Is that a good enough reason to get a husky? because you want to prove to everybody what a beautiful and noble breed the husky is?
    adrenalinjunkie wrote: »
    There was me thinking you were concerned that people were not showing sympathy for the child. A toddler was seriously injured here - and your worry seems to be that the person responsible for these terrible injuries should not feel bad about it, wow, just . . . .wow!!!
    I think anyone who is following this thread is probably laughing at what your trying to imply there,utterly ridiculous comment,an ill thought out comment,a comment which does your argument for the Husky no favours,actually the comment has nothing to do with the Husky,its just a pot shot at me.

    speaking of,what is your view on how the Huskys reputation can be restored,if thats the right word to be using? or did it ever have a reputation?anyone:confused:
    Discodog wrote: »
    If Malamute owners & all the rest of us dog owners do nothing then any dog could become banned & not just restricted. Just because the UK is seeing sense & we appear to have an intelligent Minister, for once, doesn't mean that that we out of the woods. There is every possibility that, following a few more attacks, the government might over react. The ISPCA have referred to your breed as dangerous & people need to speak out. If we can't rely on the ISPCA to defend dogs then who can we rely on.
    Actually it is highly relevant because you probably know that, whatever breed you name, we can find examples of them biting. It is also relevant because you keep focusing on the breed of this dog.

    You have children. Would you consider that a two or three year old child is capable of an unprovoked attack ? Surely the child would of had a reason even if it was the wrong one. I & many experts believe that there is no such thing as an unprovoked attack by a dog. I could go into a lengthy explanation but I suspect that you wouldn't listen. I could also recommend some reading material but you would probably disregard it. A dog attack is always provoked & there are always warning signs.
    where to start:(

    I didnt mention my breed of dog as my dog is not a husky,and the dog im dicussing here is the husky as per title,its that simple. lets focus on the husky.
    A 2 or 3 year child is capable of an attack? your use of the word attack leaves me astounded,i can say no more,im speechless.

    You follow on saying,you and "many experts believe that there is no such thing as an unprovoked attack by a dog" who are these experts you speak of? credible experts? name them and let us judge there comments opinions.

    As your prejudging me by suggesting i wont listening to your lenghty explanation,that says more about you than it does me.
    Im all ears,the floor is yours.......

    "a dog attack is always prevoked"

    i guess if you say it enough of times then it can be made to be true,youve said it twice in a few short sentences


    to end.......... what exactly are you proposing to do for the breed that has been under scrutiny here?

    1 thing is to speak out openly with yer proposals rather than hide behind the walls of a hosted forum where nobody with a different view is heard.


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  • #262
    DamagedTrax
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,277 ✭✭✭DamagedTrax


    I didnt mention my breed of dog as my dog is not a husky,and the dog im dicussing here is the husky as per title,its that simple. lets focus on the husky.

    if you think that focusing on a certain breed of dog is acceptable then you have no place in this thread. any dog is capable of biting and damaging a child.

    a stable dog (well socialised, excersised and loved) is not going to attack unprovoked. any case of 'unprovoked' attack is usually explained by something thats not obvious such as a medical/mental condition that hasnt been noticed.

    and no, im not a husky owner.


  • #263
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    DamagedTrax wrote: »
    any case of 'unprovoked' attack is usually explained by something thats not obvious such as a medical/mental condition that hasnt been noticed.

    What are the chances of them finding the source if they cannot tell what type of dog it is.Then Blabbing to the media their incorrect info which no doubt will cause cruelty to animals and dogs needing homes.


  • #264
    ducksmalone
    Closed Accounts Posts: 78 ✭✭ducksmalone


    Deleted User wrote: »
    Again both children are home playing after the "mauling" ???
    Sorry,what do you mean here? has the child in Clare been released from hospital?
    DamagedTrax wrote: »
    if you think that focusing on a certain breed of dog is acceptable then you have no place in this thread. any dog is capable of biting and damaging a child.

    a stable dog (well socialised, excersised and loved) is not going to attack unprovoked. any case of 'unprovoked' attack is usually explained by something thats not obvious such as a medical/mental condition that hasnt been noticed.

    and no, im not a husky owner.
    I ll take the guidance of the people moderating the forum thanks
    http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=77962033&postcount=25


  • #265
    DamagedTrax
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,277 ✭✭✭DamagedTrax


    sure, hide behind forum rules.

    if you make stupid, incorrect statements then expect a backlash from people who know what they're talking about.


  • #266
    chris_ie
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,212 ✭✭✭chris_ie


    ducksmalone wrote: »
    A 2 or 3 year child is capable of an attack? your use of the word attack leaves me astounded,i can say no more,im speechless.

    First off I'm not saying the child attacked the dog in this case but just wanted to add that a child could do what a dog perceives to be an attack. A child hitting a dog could be seen as an attack to the dog.

    I've also heard of cases where a dog, who was never aggressive, turned and snapped and someone who was petting them, on further investigation they found that the dog was in quite a bit of pain and when they repeatedly touched the area the dog snapped at them. So if a dog is in pain it cant just let its owner know. If a child was over pulling or hitting the dog and it was in pain the dog could be capable of 'turning'. Like I said, I'm not saying that's what happened in this case but it can easily happen and its not fair destroying the dog because it was in pain.


  • #267
    star-pants
    Closed Accounts Posts: 13,429 ✭✭✭✭star-pants


    ducksmalone wrote: »
    I ll take the guidance of the people moderating the forum thanks
    http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=77962033&postcount=25

    ducksmalone - backseat moderation is against the forum rules.
    Also the warning of mine that you quoted said 'a specific case of a child and a dog' - I didn't state Husky.
    Do not reply to this post on thread.


  • #268
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    ducksmalone wrote: »
    Sorry,what do you mean here? has the child in Clare been released from hospital?


    Yes she is at home recovering.

    http://www.herald.ie/news/second-child-hurt-after-pet-husky-savages-little-girl-3-3088811.html

    this article doesn't use the word maul, so that's something.


  • #269
    star-pants
    Closed Accounts Posts: 13,429 ✭✭✭✭star-pants


    Posting a separate on-thread warning - I suggest people heed Hellrazers' previous warning.
    Let's stick to the facts that are know about the cases and not speculate.
    Also some posters need to calm down as aggressive posting and bossing about will result in further infractions being handed out. I would suggest that anyone getting frustrated with the thread, take a break from it.


  • #270
    ducksmalone
    Closed Accounts Posts: 78 ✭✭ducksmalone


    Deleted User wrote: »
    Again both children are home playing after the "mauling" ???
    Deleted User wrote: »
    Yes she is at home recovering.

    http://www.herald.ie/news/second-child-hurt-after-pet-husky-savages-little-girl-3-3088811.html

    this article doesn't use the word maul, so that's something.
    :confused: The article says the girl from clare is recovering at home,the name of the child is out there already,why the journalists said she was unnamed is puzzling.

    It doesnt mention anything about a mauling? i dont understand what you mean by that,ive no doubt you read of the horrific injuries the wee girl received and if thats not a mauling....... well tis all the same.


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  • #271
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    ducksmalone wrote: »
    It doesnt mention anything about a mauling? i dont understand what you mean by that,ive no doubt you read of the horrific injuries the wee girl received and if thats not a mauling....... well tis all the same.

    I have not heard of the horrific injuries. I have heard of scrapes mentioned in some of the articles. I have yet to read of any stitches needed or any injury's associated with a maul. Are there any ??


  • #272
    chris_ie
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,212 ✭✭✭chris_ie


    Another case of dog mauling but being treated a bit differently.


  • #273
    ducksmalone
    Closed Accounts Posts: 78 ✭✭ducksmalone


    Deleted User wrote: »
    I have not heard of the horrific injuries. I have heard of scrapes mentioned in some of the articles. I have yet to read of any stitches needed or any injury's associated with a maul. Are there any ??

    http://clare.fm/news/ballynacally-father-speaks-dog-attack-his-young-daughter

    did you listen to the interview on clarefm on monday morning? did anyone request a podcast of the shocking interview from the station?

    is this not a mauling? im certainly not underplaying the incident or overdoing it, but the big question here is why has nobody else who has been interacting with me on here put forward anymore details of the attack? i guess i can answer that myself,because like i have been saying all along,ye just wish the gorey details would remain unreported?


  • #274
    chris_ie
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,212 ✭✭✭chris_ie


    ducksmalone wrote: »
    http://clare.fm/news/ballynacally-father-speaks-dog-attack-his-young-daughter

    did you listen to the interview on clarefm on monday morning? did anyone request a podcast of the shocking interview from the station?

    is this not a mauling? im certainly not underplaying the incident or overdoing it, but the big question here is why has nobody else who has been interacting with me on here put forward anymore details of the attack? i guess i can answer that myself,because like i have been saying all along,ye just wish the gorey details would remain unreported?

    Majority of people know the details and they are horrific. You keep posting as if you are the only person on here that has sympathy for the child. You are not, its just that others, who also have sympathy, are a bit more open minded and want to state that, just because one dog attacked a child, it doesn't mean that every dog of that breed is the same. I really dont understand how you can say that.


  • #275
    star-pants
    Closed Accounts Posts: 13,429 ✭✭✭✭star-pants


    Just to point out, there appear to be two different stories as to what was going on at the time of the attack.

    Independent that was linked to previously -here

    and the above link to Clarefm.

    One states the child was brought out to the garage where the dog was to get some crisps and the other states the child was playing in the garden with other children when the dog attacked.


  • #276
    toadfly
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,412 ✭✭✭toadfly


    This thread is just going round in circles. Ducks will never see it the way I do and I will never understand his (IMO narrowminded) view.


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  • #277
    Discodog
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,918 ✭✭✭✭Discodog


    Deleted User wrote: »
    Irish dogs posted this .....

    http://irishdogs.ie/news/2012/04/25/huskies-among-most-dangerous-dogs-study-shows.html

    So who do we believe ? Some American lawyers or one of the most respected trainers in Ireland - in the comments section. We had countless "most dangerous breed discussions" here & there is never any scientific evidence.
    ducksmalone wrote: »

    where to startfrown.gif

    I didnt mention my breed of dog as my dog is not a husky,and the dog im dicussing here is the husky as per title,its that simple. lets focus on the husky.

    Considering that in the previous attack the dog was described as a Husky but turned out not to be a Husky how can we be sure of the breed ?
    ducksmalone wrote: »
    A 2 or 3 year child is capable of an attack? your use of the word attack leaves me astounded,i can say no more,im speechless.

    The reason that I used those ages is because a dog's intelligence & reasoning has been compared to a child of that age.
    ducksmalone wrote: »
    You follow on saying,you and "many experts believe that there is no such thing as an unprovoked attack by a dog" who are these experts you speak of? credible experts? name them and let us judge there comments opinions.

    to end.......... what exactly are you proposing to do for the breed that has been under scrutiny here?

    1 thing is to speak out openly with yer proposals rather than hide behind the walls of a hosted forum where nobody with a different view is heard.

    You are being heard even if you don't listen. Here is a little reading material.

    John Bradshaw. In Defence of Dogs. Written by a professor who has studied dogs for over 20 years at the Bristol University Vet School.

    Anne Rogers. A training & behavioural consultant & founding member if the APDT. Some of her comments are in the Irish Dogs link.

    The reason why dogs naturally avoid any aggression is because it is damaging to the pack. I have kept dogs, worked with dogs & worked with welfare groups for over 25 years - I have never met an aggressive dog. Even with the previous "Husky" attack you will read that the dog was totally placid with the warden.

    I am proposing nothing for the "breed" or any other breed. Dog attacks have nothing to do with breed. One American study by lawyers accuses Huskies of being dangerous. Another American "study" by Vets says that the Chihuahua is the dog most like likely to bite. If you do a search you will see that we have discussed the issue many times.

    What I am proposing is that we grow up & follow the accepted example where an owner is responsible for the behaviour & actions of their animals. At least in Medieval times the dog might of been called to the Court to give evidence in it's defence. Now we just kill it.

    Continuing to blame the dog just allows irresponsible ownership to continue & more children will end up hurt. If you accept that there are good dogs & bad dogs then you have to accept that there are good & bad children. They are both "made" by their upbringing. Someone has to take responsibility & be held to account - are you seriously suggesting that this should be the dog ?


  • #278
    Discodog
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,918 ✭✭✭✭Discodog


    chris_ie wrote: »
    Another case of dog mauling but being treated a bit differently.

    There was a similar case in the UK where a woman left a child with a dog & she was jailed - strange that I can't see a link to it.

    star-pants wrote: »
    Just to point out, there appear to be two different stories as to what was going on at the time of the attack.

    Independent that was linked to previously -here

    and the above link to Clarefm.

    One states the child was brought out to the garage where the dog was to get some crisps and the other states the child was playing in the garden with other children when the dog attacked.

    This just highlights why there should be a proper investigation by qualified people & before the dog is killed.


  • #279
    ducksmalone
    Closed Accounts Posts: 78 ✭✭ducksmalone


    chris_ie wrote: »
    Majority of people know the details and they are horrific. You keep posting as if you are the only person on here that has sympathy for the child. You are not, its just that others, who also have sympathy, are a bit more open minded and want to state that, just because one dog attacked a child, it doesn't mean that every dog of that breed is the same. I really dont understand how you can say that.
    i posted it for the benefit of the poster drey. the poster wasnt aware of the severity of the attack and i provided the link so he can arm himself with knowledge that the attack wasnt just a few scratches. thats all.


  • #280
    Hooked
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,817 ✭✭✭Hooked


    ducksmalone wrote: »
    http://clare.fm/news/ballynacally-father-speaks-dog-attack-his-young-daughter

    did you listen to the interview on clarefm on monday morning? did anyone request a podcast of the shocking interview from the station?

    is this not a mauling? im certainly not underplaying the incident or overdoing it, but the big question here is why has nobody else who has been interacting with me on here put forward anymore details of the attack? i guess i can answer that myself,because like i have been saying all along,ye just wish the gorey details would remain unreported?


    Whether it's a 'mauling' or not is irrelevant to me. The poor child was attacked, received 60 or some odd stitches and the mental scars will far outlast the physical ones. We get that. I have yet to hear the podcast but trust me, I will!

    Feel free to give us all the details of the attack and the poor childs injuries. And while you're at it... get us all the details of the dog, it's confirmed breed, it's IKC paperwork, license info, and a detailed analysis of it's training, daily routine and exercise regime. Then we'd have a complete picture.

    You're in the Pets section of a forum, so you'll meet dedicated pet owners like me - who like many others are treating the report on the dog as a separate issue to the report on the childs 'mauling'.

    I'm not excusing the dog due to it's behavior, treatment, owners, etc... as I'm not privy to such detail. And I'm not accusing the families involved of anything!!! I'm trying to get people to separate the Red Top Rags "facts" from... Actual FACT!

    I don't know you Ducksmalone, and I'm making no attempt to get into a sparring match with you or any other poster. All I'm trying to do is have the Limerick incident correctly reported/remembered as NOT a Siberian Husky.

    And this attack, and all attacks as far more than a simple case of a dog 'turning'. Dogs, like children... are a result of their upbringing, feeding and exercising. And it's about time people realised just whats involved in owning and supervising one. Especially a high energy breed.

    If my Siberian husky wasn't fed the best food, exercised at least twice daily, fully crate trained, always kept on lead out walking and mentally stimulated each lunch hour with over a dozen tricks/commands but instead was chained to a tree for hours on end, thrown scraps at random, left out doors and never walked... would I come home every day to the same animal?

    As with this "Animal and Pet Issue", theres far more to individual behavior, a dog attacking or 'mauling' a child than a simple case of "a crazed Husky turning". Despite what the media or an unqualified warden would have us believe.


  • #281
    chris_ie
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,212 ✭✭✭chris_ie


    ducksmalone wrote: »
    i posted it for the benefit of the poster drey. the poster wasnt aware of the severity of the attack and i provided the link so he can arm himself with knowledge that the attack wasnt just a few scratches. thats all.

    Ok, I know you were talking to drey but I was mainly refferring to this part :
    ducksmalone wrote: »
    but the big question here is why has nobody else who has been interacting with me on here put forward anymore details of the attack? i guess i can answer that myself,because like i have been saying all along,ye just wish the gorey details would remain unreported?


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  • #282
    Discodog
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,918 ✭✭✭✭Discodog


    Hooked wrote: »
    We get that. I have yet to hear the podcast but trust me, I will!

    You might have a problem - I couldn't see it on the Clare FM site. If you find it can you post a link ?


  • #283
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    I honestly didnt hear the facts of the case only that both children are at home. But as starpants has stated, facts are all over the place on these stories. At the end of the day, children were hurt dogs were destroyed, and the chance of getting answers has now past.

    Nothing learned.


  • #284
    Hooked
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,817 ✭✭✭Hooked


    Discodog wrote: »
    You might have a problem - I couldn't see it on the Clare FM site. If you find it can you post a link ?

    I assumed the iPhone app would have a "listen back" feature. It doesn't.
    Gonna have a root around the website now and will post a link if I find it.


  • #285
    Discodog
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,918 ✭✭✭✭Discodog


    Deleted User wrote: »
    I honestly didnt hear the facts of the case only that both children are at home. But as starpants has stated, facts are all over the place on these stories. At the end of the day, children were hurt dogs were destroyed, and the chance of getting answers has now past.

    Nothing learned.

    Exactly. It's a bit like the cars being removed & everyone disappearing after a car accident before the Guards arrive. Only the Guards are qualified to determine the cause whereas the Dog Warden isn't.


  • #286
    Discodog
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,918 ✭✭✭✭Discodog


    Hooked wrote: »
    I assumed the iPhone app would have a "listen back" feature. It doesn't.
    Gonna have a root around the website now and will post a link if I find it.

    I have just emailed Morning focus at Clare FM & asked that they post one. It might help if you do the same.


  • #287
    Hooked
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,817 ✭✭✭Hooked


    Discodog wrote: »
    I have just emailed Morning focus at Clare FM & asked that they post one. It might help if you do the same.

    Couldn't see it either. Will do!


  • #288
    ducksmalone
    Closed Accounts Posts: 78 ✭✭ducksmalone


    TillyGirl wrote: »
    This thread is just going round in circles. Ducks will never see it the way I do and I will never understand his (IMO narrowminded) view.
    I must have missed your contributions to the Clare attack,but i will search for them now to see what angle your reading the attack from.
    Nice of you to call me narrowminded when you dont know anything about me.

    Discodog wrote: »
    The reason that I used those ages is because a dog's intelligence & reasoning has been compared to a child of that age.

    You are being heard even if you don't listen. Here is a little reading material.

    John Bradshaw. In Defence of Dogs. Written by a professor who has studied dogs for over 20 years at the Bristol University Vet School.

    Anne Rogers. A training & behavioural consultant & founding member if the APDT. Some of her comments are in the Irish Dogs link.

    I am proposing nothing for the "breed" or any other breed. Dog attacks have nothing to do with breed. One American study by lawyers accuses Huskies of being dangerous. Another American "study" by Vets says that the Chihuahua is the dog most like likely to bite. If you do a search you will see that we have discussed the issue many times.

    What I am proposing is that we grow up & follow the accepted example where an owner is responsible for the behaviour & actions of their animals. At least in Medieval times the dog might of been called to the Court to give evidence in it's defence. Now we just kill it.

    Continuing to blame the dog just allows irresponsible ownership to continue & more children will end up hurt. If you accept that there are good dogs & bad dogs then you have to accept that there are good & bad children. They are both "made" by their upbringing. Someone has to take responsibility & be held to account - are you seriously suggesting that this should be the dog ?
    Never heard of those 2 people you listed,not saying they are not credible,just never heard of them.

    In an earlier exchange i asked you what you or anybody else for that matter was proposing for the breed as you said the breed might be banned or placed on a restricted list. your highlighted answer above says your proposing nothing,then you continue your proposal is for the "owner is responsible for the behaviour & actions of their animals":confused: there is nothing new in your proposal,so i can conclude nothing will change.

    The last highlighted part,"If you accept that there are good dogs & bad dogs then you have to accept that there are good & bad children" i wouldnt put children anywhere in a sentence with a dog....:(


  • #289
    Discodog
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,918 ✭✭✭✭Discodog


    ducksmalone wrote: »
    Never heard of those 2 people you listed,not saying they are not credible,just never heard of them.

    In an earlier exchange i asked you what you or anybody else for that matter was proposing for the breed as you said the breed might be banned or placed on a restricted list. your highlighted answer above says your proposing nothing,then you continue your proposal is for the "owner is responsible for the behaviour & actions of their animals":confused: there is nothing new in your proposal,so i can conclude nothing will change.

    The last highlighted part,"If you accept that there are good dogs & bad dogs then you have to accept that there are good & bad children" i wouldnt put children anywhere in a sentence with a dog....:(

    Ok watch some of the following on youtube. Martin Clunes Dog Series, BBC Panorama, BBC 3 Don't blame the Dog. In fact try & find any respected person who believes that some breeds are more dangerous than others. If they don't convince you then watch Shaun Ellis (the "Wolfman") interacting with Wolves - no I am not comparing Wolves & dogs but there are obvious similarities. Dogs evolved from Wolves & Wolves are not naturally aggressive.

    Nothing new ? The idea that an owner takes responsibility would be a quantum leap for Ireland. It would mean that we abandon our stupid restricted breed list as they are about to in the UK. The other key thing that needs to be done is that children need to be taught, in school, how to react with & understand dogs. One Dog charity is doing some good work in this field.

    One example was the study done by a UK Vet & a second by Lincoln University. Both found that children often totally misunderstand the signals given by dogs. When shown a photo of a snarling dog many children thought that it was laughing. They also focussed on the face & ignored classic indicators like the hackles & tail.

    So the dog may well be giving plenty of warning but it gets ignored & if the child persists with the behaviour it can get bitten. It seems insane that, with so many dogs in society, we can't allocate a tiny amount of time to teaching children the basics. Even when I was at school we had "school pets" & we were taught how to look after an animal. If we teach the children now we will have far less attacks in the future. Also the kids will influence the parents in the way that the family dog is treated.


  • #290
    Cherry Blossom
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,964 ✭✭✭Cherry Blossom


    The US legal system certainly isn't laughing at me:
    chris_ie wrote: »
    Another case of dog mauling but being treated a bit differently.

    That is exactly how it should be done.
    ducksmalone wrote: »
    speaking of,what is your view on how the Huskys reputation can be restored,if thats the right word to be using? or did it ever have a reputation?anyoneconfused.gif

    That's exactly what people are doing on this thread. Outside of engaging in conversation with people who continue to mistake my Sheltie pup for a husky there is not much I personally can do because I have never owned a northern breed of any description.

    I do own a small white fluffy that is a breed that rescues refuse to rehome to people with kids because the vast majority of Irish homes are completely incapable of catering for their needs and the breed traits and there is a high number of incidents of kids being bitten as a result, yet there are four kids under 7 here with not one single problem. People see my well behaved lovable fluffball interacting with the kids in the park and approach and ask what kind of dog it is, I explain in great depth the 24/7 job for an entire year it was to train her to this point, the importance of where and how the dog is sourced, the extensive and varied 4 hour+ per day exercise regime needed to satisfy her instincts and energy levels, the diet needed for a breed with food intolerances that result in extreme hyperactivity and painful sensitive skin and the importance of reprimanding the kids if they step out of line with this dog because if you are not taking responsibility for ensuring the safety of the dog, they will be forced to protect themselves and when this happens, the adult in the equation are entirely at fault.

    The same thing applies to every single dog, perhaps to a greater or lesser degree with different traits within different breeds/crosses/individual dogs, it is entirely down to the owner of each dog to make sure they fully understand what they are taking on and knowing their own capabilities of what they can and can't cater for.


  • #291
    SillyMangoX
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,003 ✭✭✭SillyMangoX


    I see a couple of malamutes up for rehoming on the ennis dog pound Facebook page, no doubt surrendered in lieu of these attacks. So sad that people dont trust their own pets anymore just because of a few terrible incidents where the facts arent even clear. I really feel for the families in both cases, but those dogs should be treated as individuals. I dont think there is much point in speculating about things here though, especially breeds seeing as in the first attack the dog was reported as a husky dog and an akita husky when it was actually a malamute. All very different breeds though similar in appearances. I wish all the facts would be made clear and checked by an animal behaviour expert before papers publish though. Maybe ill make a career of it :D absolutely awful thing to happen to two young kids though, at least they both walked away with their lives.


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  • #292
    Discodog
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,918 ✭✭✭✭Discodog


    The point that most of are trying to make is that it is about owners & not breeds. We get threads here asking what is the best breed around children or what is the best breed for a guard dog. The obsession with breeds causes a lot of the problems because people can assume that, for example if they get a breed that is reputably good with children, they can leave them together unsupervised.

    The other thing that has to be understood is that the main reason we don't leave dogs with young children is because we can't trust the kids. Any dog is going to have a tolerance level. Last weekend a neighbour's child decided to stop throwing the stick for my dog & started hitting him with it. To their credit the parent rushed over & told the child off. To his credit the dog didn't react.


  • #293
    Evac101
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 689 ✭✭✭Evac101


    Submitted this in response to the Irishdogs.ie article, the main details I would have to credit to Skeptoid.com's analysis of dog bite incidents in the US and the subsequent threads there regarding how dog attacks are investigated in various states and what the legal reporting mechanisms are regarding those attacks:

    "There are a number of distinct issues which need to be addressed in the article above:

    1) As many others will agree the current facts on dog attacks in the US (as is the case in most countries) is that the majority of states only require reporting on incidents which require hospital treatment (in the states that have any such provision). There is no requirement to detail breed, training, socialisation, owner experience, exercising or other potentially pertinent details in these reports. Given that the majority of large breeds are capable of inflicting injuries more likely to require hospital treatment this creates an artificial bias on the already flawed reporting which demonstrates a preponderance of large breeds appearing in the traditionally favoured 'top biter' lists. In the majority of US states there's no provision for the investigation into the background to even fatal dog attacks incident - any checks are ones ordered specifically by whatever judge is involved in the post mortem hearings, if in fact they request any checks.
    All in all, incomplete data with an artificial bias towards large dogs shows that large dogs have a bias to appear in that data.

    2) Given the recent popularity of northern breed dogs as 'flavour of the month' social accessories and the relative likelihood of someone who would be influenced by that trend also being a responsible owner who researched the needs of their choice prior to acquiring the animal and took care to address the animals social and physical needs on an ongoing basis (which I feel is unlikely), I'm a lot more comfortable making assumptions about the owners potential lack of appropriate care then the dog being an unpredictable risk frankly. Without adequate physical and mental stimulation any dog is capable of attacking a human, even without extenuating circumstances like inner ear infections, etc.
    My point being that only people prepared to correctly care for a dog, of any breed, should own a dog - all breeds and mixes have individual requirements in terms mental and physical care which any prospective owner should
    (a) be aware of
    and
    (b) be prepared to meet
    Sorry for re-iterating the point twice in one sentence but it seems like no matter how many times it's said we see incident after incident where I suspect people have been told this but haven't actually listened.

    3) The original research has been interpreted by lawyers who specialise in suing dog owners for injuries and then released as part of a press statement which is, obviously given I'm talking about people who sue for a living, in no way designed to advertise their services in a sensationalist way likely to catch the eye of editors looking to fill space on papers and are more concerned with eye catch tag lines rather then factual accuracy. If an actual canine behavioural scientist managed to conduct a comprehensive, rigorously applied and overseen study on all dog bites, small and large, in a particular region over a course of 15-20 years (to prevent 'fotm trending' from artificially affecting the results) then that's a report I would love to see. The interpreted results of an incomplete study by a law firm I have less faith in."


  • #294
    Discodog
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,918 ✭✭✭✭Discodog


    But in reality a proper in depth study is impossible. There are just too many variables & every case has to be judged on it's merits.


  • #295
    Evac101
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 689 ✭✭✭Evac101


    Fair point, however that doesn't detract form the point that current studies are fundamentally and demonstrably deeply flawed and shouldn't be used as evidence of anything but that ;)


  • #296
    Discodog
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,918 ✭✭✭✭Discodog


    Evac101 wrote: »
    Fair point, however that doesn't detract form the point that current studies are fundamentally and demonstrably deeply flawed and shouldn't be used as evidence of anything but that ;)

    I agree & there is always the danger that people looking for simple answers like legislators will jump on them & regard them as fact. After all we still don't know how the existing breeds ended up on the RB list. We could even end with a conflict of interests now that Dog Control & Welfare are under different departments.


  • #297
    planetX
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,441 ✭✭✭planetX


    Another factor must be the mass breeding taking no account of temperament. I've met quite a few unpleasant labs lately, and it surprised me because growing up I only ever met very placid ones.
    This must be affecting the sled breeds now as they've been on a popularity roll, and went from being rare to one on every street - can't remember, was there a kids movie that started it? Obviously when big money's involved, and people will buy any puppy online for it's looks, no-one bothers with attributes like good temperament.


  • #298
    ducksmalone
    Closed Accounts Posts: 78 ✭✭ducksmalone


    Evac101 wrote: »
    Submitted this in response to the Irishdogs.ie article, the main details I would have to credit to Skeptoid.com's analysis of dog bite incidents in the US and the subsequent threads there regarding how dog attacks are investigated in various states and what the legal reporting mechanisms are regarding those attacks:

    "There are a number of distinct issues which need to be addressed in the article above:

    1) As many others will agree the current facts on dog attacks in the US (as is the case in most countries) is that the majority of states only require reporting on incidents which require hospital treatment (in the states that have any such provision). There is no requirement to detail breed, training, socialisation, owner experience, exercising or other potentially pertinent details in these reports.

    Given that the majority of large breeds are capable of inflicting injuries more likely to require hospital treatment this creates an artificial bias on the already flawed reporting which demonstrates a preponderance of large breeds appearing in the traditionally favoured 'top biter' lists. In the majority of US states there's no provision for the investigation into the background to even fatal dog attacks incident - any checks are ones ordered specifically by whatever judge is involved in the post mortem hearings, if in fact they request any checks.

    All in all, incomplete data with an artificial bias towards large dogs shows that large dogs have a bias to appear in that data.

    2) Given the recent popularity of northern breed dogs as 'flavour of the month' social accessories and the relative likelihood of someone who would be influenced by that trend also being a responsible owner who researched the needs of their choice prior to acquiring the animal and took care to address the animals social and physical needs on an ongoing basis (which I feel is unlikely), I'm a lot more comfortable making assumptions about the owners potential lack of appropriate care then the dog being an unpredictable risk frankly. Without adequate physical and mental stimulation any dog is capable of attacking a human, even without extenuating circumstances like inner ear infections, etc.


    My point being that only people prepared to correctly care for a dog, of any breed, should own a dog - all breeds and mixes have individual requirements in terms mental and physical care which any prospective owner should
    (a) be aware of
    and
    (b) be prepared to meet
    Sorry for re-iterating the point twice in one sentence but it seems like no matter how many times it's said we see incident after incident where I suspect people have been told this but haven't actually listened.

    3) The original research has been interpreted by lawyers who specialise in suing dog owners for injuries and then released as part of a press statement which is, obviously given I'm talking about people who sue for a living, in no way designed to advertise their services in a sensationalist way likely to catch the eye of editors looking to fill space on papers and are more concerned with eye catch tag lines rather then factual accuracy.

    If an actual canine behavioural scientist managed to conduct a comprehensive, rigorously applied and overseen study on all dog bites, small and large, in a particular region over a course of 15-20 years (to prevent 'fotm trending' from artificially affecting the results) then that's a report I would love to see. The interpreted results of an incomplete study by a law firm I have less faith in."
    where on Earth are you getting these statistics and claims to support your post? some fine reading there,but i may as well be reading little red riding hood unless you have some credible source to back up this post.

    but like a couple of posters on this thread,you have made sense,common sense in a couple of sentences above i quote some of it"My point being that only people prepared to correctly care for a dog, of any breed, should own a dog - all breeds and mixes have individual requirements" there would be unified support for this statement accross the internet.


  • #299
    ducksmalone
    Closed Accounts Posts: 78 ✭✭ducksmalone


    Hooked wrote: »
    Whether it's a 'mauling' or not is irrelevant to me. The poor child was attacked, received 60 or some odd stitches and the mental scars will far outlast the physical ones. We get that. I have yet to hear the podcast but trust me, I will!

    Feel free to give us all the details of the attack and the poor childs injuries. And while you're at it... get us all the details of the dog, it's confirmed breed, it's IKC paperwork, license info, and a detailed analysis of it's training, daily routine and exercise regime. Then we'd have a complete picture.

    You're in the Pets section of a forum,


    so you'll meet dedicated pet owners like me - who like many others are treating the report on the dog as a separate issue to the report on the childs 'mauling'.

    I'm not excusing the dog due to it's behavior, treatment, owners, etc... as I'm not privy to such detail. And I'm not accusing the families involved of anything!!! I'm trying to get people to separate the Red Top Rags "facts" from... Actual FACT!

    I don't know you Ducksmalone, and I'm making no attempt to get into a sparring match with you or any other poster.

    All I'm trying to do is have the Limerick incident correctly reported/remembered as NOT a Siberian Husky.

    And this attack, and all attacks as far more than a simple case of a dog 'turning'. Dogs, like children... are a result of their upbringing, feeding and exercising.

    As with this "Animal and Pet Issue", theres far more to individual behavior, a dog attacking or 'mauling' a child than a simple case of "a crazed Husky turning". Despite what the media or an unqualified warden would have us believe.

    Im well aware where im posting,i know its he animal and pets section,why did you feel the need to say this? Should i thread carefully here? your the second person on here to say such a thing to me,in between a menacing PM i received:rolleyes:

    I have never commented on the limerick attack,as i dont know all the facts and didnt hear the radio interview. i will only comment on the clare issue,but if you could be bothered reading through my posts,you would have seen this.

    "Dogs, like children... are a result of their upbringing, feeding and exercising"
    this is your statement,what kind of mentality does a person have to compare children and animals? if your mother saw that statement she'd be ashamed of you.as a parent and dog owner i would never,ever put those 2 words in the same sentence,ive already said this earlier :(
    My dog is exactly that............. a dog,she is not my child,she is part of the family,but she is the dog

    why are you trying to hold me responsible for giving you information on the Husky who attacked in clare? go do your own research! do you think i have nothing better to do than do a research for you? a good place to start would be in this thread.plenty links and details of the damage done to the wee girl in clare.

    theres far more to individual behavior, a dog attacking or 'mauling' a child than a simple case of "a crazed Husky turningis your final statement,what makes you an Husky expert to make this statement? tell us your history studying this breed. you see like some people on here,you feel its better to agree with the masses rather than stand up and question everything,even if your a loan voice and makes you unpopular,be true to yourself.

    Did you see in a post above all the people who thanked him yet never questioned where these statements were taken from?:rolleyes:


  • #300
    Cherry Blossom
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,964 ✭✭✭Cherry Blossom


    ducksmalone wrote: »
    where on Earth are you getting these statistics and claims to support your post?

    The source is given very clearly in the first sentence of that post, this is getting quite tiresome at this stage.


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  • #301
    borderlinemeath
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,340 ✭✭✭borderlinemeath


    ducksmalone wrote: »

    "Dogs, like children... are a result of their upbringing, feeding and exercising"
    this is your statement,what kind of mentality does a person have to compare children and animals? if your mother saw that statement she'd be ashamed of you.as a parent and dog owner i would never,ever put those 2 words in the same sentence,ive already said this earlier :(
    My dog is exactly that............. a dog,she is not my child,she is part of the family,but she is the dog

    Know his mother personally? :rolleyes:

    You may be a parent and a dog owner but that doesn't give you carte blanche to assume that everybody holds the same opinion as yourself in regards the rearing of children and animals. No, they are not the same but a responsible parent should look after, educate, stimulate, and protect their child. And exactly the same can be done for their pet. Dogs need a lot more care and attention then some people care to believe.

    In my opinion, there are plenty of irresponsible parents and just as many irresponsible dog owners, yet if the child acts out for example by striking another child in a creche - the parents are held responsible. The child may have been provoked by another, or it may be sick and cranky and acting out but if a child hits another child, the parents are spoken to and held accountable. Yet if a dog bites a child - maybe it was provoked, maybe it's sick and acting out - the dog is held responsible. Y'see??;)
    why are you trying to hold me responsible for giving you information on the Husky who attacked in clare? go do your own research! do you think i have nothing better to do than do a research for you? a good place to start would be in this thread.plenty links and details of the damage done to the wee girl in clare.

    theres far more to individual behavior, a dog attacking or 'mauling' a child than a simple case of "a crazed Husky turning[/B]is your final statement,what makes you an Husky expert to make this statement? tell us your history studying this breed. you see like some people on here,you feel its better to agree with the masses rather than stand up and question everything,even if your a loan voice and makes you unpopular,be true to yourself.

    Did you see in a post above all the people who thanked him yet never questioned where these statements were taken from?:rolleyes:

    Because it's true. Dogs don't 'turn' or go crazy for no reason. There's provocation, illness, lack of stimulation, food guarding, resource guarding, teasing...the list goes on..


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