Ireland Team Talk XI: Team of nervoUS MOD warning Post 1

arsebiscuits1 wrote: »

FYP.

Wont be seeing you

Good one. what is this crap? i suppose its in the name right

clsmooth wrote: »

Do you enjoy rugby at all?

Yeah and i'd enjoy a coach that had a set of balls to play people who are performing. all we are doing once again is continuing on the same ****e. Granted he's shown an inclination to try people in big games. But as i argued it doesn't follow much logic. Keenan isn't any further along the road than say Lowry. Why has Baird been mothballed? All we can hope for is that if Coombes, Penny, Byrne, Casey continue on by the end of the season he will have no choice, much the same with Doris, Kelleher. I just find the reticence hugely frustrating and familiar. This is nothing rugby just try combinations and bring guys in for experience.

Anyway as i said from day 1 Andy and his hurt arena isn;t the answer. He was involved in the huge ****show in Japan along with Simon, and Catt has offered nothing. This won't be the answer.

madness that we're at the stage of playing Murray against Georgia. Can people not see how bonkers this is?

Like the Cooney debacle. This coaching group doesn't seem to know what it wants or what it is doing.

https://www.the42.ie/ireland-farrell-european-rugby-5276950-Nov2020/

this will be the first match in about 28 years i don't want to watch.

and this goes back to my gripe about the original selection. the replies were...oh well the Georgia game this and that....

aloooof wrote: »

Just because he hasn't picked the exact combinations you want, doesn't mean he hasn't tried new combinations.

Even where he has (Doris, Kelleher) you don't seem to want to give him any credit it for it, instead claiming he had no choice!

i was told why am i complaining about the initial squad? the reply was Georgia game will be the one etc. once again things have been proved right and people move the goal posts..

if people are happy about Murray and Stander facing Georgia well then i don't know what to say. I did give him credit. And my point is on the summer tour is we'll see these guys. Just like Doris and Kelleher, its inevitable that Casey and Penny, Moore, Harry, Baird, maybe Lowry will be in the squad in the next 12 months. why not just do it ****ing now. its so utterly pointless and against logic. as much as i criticized Joe, he didn't beat around the bush with James Ryan unlike Ringrose before him. Farrell has probably been the quickest of any coach to do it en masse. That is something i've repeatedly given him credit for. Yet for some reason we still make weird decisions around some guys and not others.

Its like when half on this forum went on about Payne over Ringrose when it was clear as day Ringrose is the answer. we're back at it. Its infuriating stuff. There's about 8 players and other combinations that need to be given a try here. Its not just Casey and harry Byrne (who are probably still too raw)

The selection will tell alot about where this coaching group is going. They'll be some lads who might as well give up playing in Ireland if not selected. Dillane, McCloskey, Marmion all deserve the start.

This is a nothing tournament, a free shot at true squad development and kick starting development. Why delay it? i just can't understand it. And for saying this, one gets called out. There can be differing opinions.

clsmooth wrote: »

Pre Wales game. Surprisingly enough not a peep out of you after that game. Or throughout the entirety of 2018. Defeat to England and we’re back in business. I think your points might be more respected if you at least tried to focus a bit on the positive rather than the negative at all stages. Nobody wants to hear incessant whingeing.

Is everything perfect with how the team is progressing? Obviously not. Is it fair to call for a head coach’s head after 9 months? No. Will he ultimately be a success? Who knows. But he deserves time. We’ve lost 3 games, twice against World Cup finalists England at Twickenham and away in Paris (I suggest you look back at the records and see if that’s an unusual occurrence for Irish rugby). We’ve seen the likes of Kelleher, Connors, Doris and Keenan all been brought through and given high profile starts. Stockdale has been tried at 15 as has Larmour. JGP and Lowe have been given consecutive starts. Baird is working his way back from injury but would more than likely have been involved if he hadn’t picked it up.

What more do you want? Casey and Harry Byrne at 9/10 for Georgia? They’ll get there but they’ve a handful of Pro 14 games and putting pressure on them to perform at this level in key positions on the pitch might not necessarily be the right call for them at this stage. Be realistic, have some patience and try to see the green shoots!

Good to see you are still referencing 2018. Yet others are banned from talking about Japan. Seems fair.

Will you ever give over. I'm offering a different opinion to you, to you its whinging.

I specifically said its not about those two players....as well as saying people really think Connors and Keenan are so much further along in their development? do people even check the actual stats and figures? i'm not going to repeat myself i've answered these points specifically. Keenan (whom i like) has done nothing to suggest he needs to be tied into some kind of central contract inevitably that we tend to do so well here. We've tried him fine, move on. He was good against an utterly crap Italy. Fine in the other games.

I'm fairly certain given his lack of experience and his damaging World Cup he's not the answer. Will Penny, BAird, Harry, Lowry, Casey, O'Sullivan, Coombes o whoever be selected in the next 12 months? yes. but as usual Irish rugby does things slowly slowly for no apparent reason whatsoever.

this is a nothing tournament and if we pick Conor Murray for this weekends game we might as well just give up discussing these things. Nobody would have said that was going to be the call, or even that it should be. Yet now dissenting voices are just whingers.

sydthebeat wrote: »

we had close to 700 caps across the 23 for the wales game (692)
That included 2 uncapped players and 7 others with less than 5 caps

against england we had a total of 634 across the 23 man squad, again with 8 players on 5 or less caps

against georgia i think we will see something around the 450 cap mark..
it will be a wider mixture of younger inexperienced players with a few older heads who can help to guide them through the game.

it wont be a rerun of last years U20s, as much as some people will whinge when its not.

England started seven, yes SEVEN, players in the starting 15 against georgia that had 50 or more caps !!!
the 23 had a grand total of 741 caps !!! this against georgia...

perhaps some of our whingers on here should go find english rugby boards and whine about how they arent giving youth a chance against a team like georgia... because its an ignorant and ill informed opinion to hold to think you just throw out a team of kids and thats a valuable use of a test game.

Syd respectfully give over on that last point. its a discussion forum not a circle jerk. Many people have pointed out the omission of Cooney etc. McCloskeys lack of chances, Dillanes and so on for some time. the idea thats its just about playing kids is nonsense. Kelleher, Doris are in the Ringrose, Ryan, Lowe, Stockdale cateogry of absolute no brainers, generational talents . I'd bet money on the lads i've mentioned above being the same.

anyway I'm fairly certain you were one of those Ringrose needs more time people a while back. was it the same with Lowe like a lot on here? now he's an undroppable to the same people. you couldn't make it up sometimes.

the idea that caps means anything in an Irish sense doesn't wash either. We tend to back a player and then its harder to get off the team than on it hence the huge individual cap numbers our players rack up. We're seeing the same with Ryan (albeit deserved). Healy is the opposite now at this stage. A legend who needs to be challenged for his own sake which is where EOS comes in,so fair enough.

The squad is depleted and yes injuries are a huge factor. AF has tried some young players and new players. Dillane, McCloskey, Marmion and one or two others need starts. Nobody was talking about playing the kids but not even having one or two in the squad is carelessness at worst. Nowhere did i say Casey and Byrne should start

anyway whats the point in moaning. Casey, Harry, Coombes, Penny, Baird at least will be 20 plus cap internationals. A good chance Moore, Lowry, O'Sullivan, Wycherly get a good chunk of caps. might as well do it slowly, why mess with tradition?

Yeah they were great. But what happens come Europe? then the same vicious circle starts...people going on about big European games being the barometer..and they can't get them cause of the 60 cap international ahead of them on the big contract. There's no reason there couldn't have been changes made to this squad. As i said if any other coach had done this for the weaker Autumn games the would be knives out. Yet here we have people predicting Murray at 9. If thats the case Marmion and Cooney need to immediately secure a transfer to France.

i was told the same around the original squad and yet here we are. anyway yeah look who cares. they keep repeating the same mistakes so whats the point. and then anybody on here who dares question gets filleted. Its a bit more balanced and critical on the unofficial provincial forums. The same people who said Ringrose needs more time etc will keep holding court here and on and on we'll go.

clsmooth wrote: »

Is that a promise?

well only if some of the heads on here can ever admit they were wrong or even bring themselves to criticise anything their sacred cows do. In the Keegan sense of the word i would love it if he selects Murray, just to see them justify it and backtrack etc. Do you or do you not see the issue with a projected team with Murray in it? given that we were looking to develop Cooney just as recently as last year? We know exactly what Conor can do. This isn't about Craig bloody Casey

salmocab wrote: »

Leinster are away to scarlets next week I think. Byrne might be better playing that in a structured Leinster team than in a scratch Ireland team that has no cohesion because of 10/12 changes. Not sure who Munster have but I’d think much the same about Casey. I genuinely don’t see much merit in throwing together a team to play Georgia when those players are unlikely to ever lineout for Ireland together again. The only merit in making the changes will likely be in resting people.

But that's exactly whats going to happen either way? why does it have to be seen as throwing a team together rather than a free shot at developing guys. so you have a choice play an international against a hardened team, even ten minutes or an 80 in a pro 14. there's an argument that yes the latter is better for development. The problem with the scenario you laid out is as soon as the tournament is over the big boys go back into the provincial teams. and we're back to people saying you can;t select such and such, he's only played pro 14. and on and on it goes until the evidence is too much to ignore. It happened with Ringrose if people can recall. the real issue is anybody who has watched Munster recently knows somebody like Casey will be an international. its just delaying the inevitable. maybe the pro 14 games are the making of him alright. anyway the real issue is with Baird for me.

Coombes looks like an international in waiting as well. we are in real need of big bad bastards with an edge and difference in their carrying. its been missing since Seanie went away.

jesus do any of you lads read some of the other views ...who is saying anything about throwing out a load of young lads? Anyway, Some of these lads fall into the exact same bracket as Doris and Kelleher, elite young talent.

If Murray is selected tomorrow, anybody defending it, is talking cack and moving the goalposts significantly.

I and many others see absolutely no point picking an experienced side against Georgia. As i said Marmion, Dillane, McCloskey all deserve a shot. baird, Cooney are deeply questionable omissions. Nobody is talking about picking craig Casey at 9 and H/Byrne at ten.

The problem is that he saw fit to make one change to a squad with absolutely no limits and pressure etc. I never ever said anything about starting young lads. Young lads are going to play. Personally i have a feeling he now needs to back up Doris, kelleher, JGP, Keenan. There's no point changing them.