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David Icke, is he for real or trolling people?

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24

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    #32
    Dohnjoe
    Registered Users Posts: 17,795 ✭✭✭✭Dohnjoe


    TheSpooner wrote: »
    I wouldn't say that its exclusive, but let's look at what else happened:

    "Despite his successful media career, Icke wrote that 1989 was a time of considerable personal despair, and it was during this period that he said he began to feel a presence around him.[58] He often describes how he felt it while alone in a hotel room in March 1990, and finally asked: "If there is anybody here, will you please contact me because you are driving me up the wall!" Days later, in a newsagent's shop in Ryde, he felt a force pull his feet to the ground and heard a voice guide him toward some books. One of them was Mind to Mind (1989) by Betty Shine, a psychic healer in Brighton. He read the book, then wrote to her requesting a consultation about his arthritis."

    I'll post the links later, but there is some suggestion that some of these microwave weapons are a form of brain computer interface between a human and a classified AI. Of which nation, I am unsure at this point. But it seems he was directed to the book "Mind to Mind" deliberately.

    He then goes on:

    "In February 1991 Icke visited a pre-Inca Sillustani burial ground near Puno, Peru, where he felt drawn to a particular circle of waist-high stones. As he stood in the circle he had two thoughts: that people would be talking about this in 100 years, and that it would be over when it rained. His body shook as though plugged into an electrical socket, he wrote, and new ideas poured into him. Then it started raining and the experience ended."

    Certainly seems to suggest some form of power beaming that was experiencing rain fade.

    At this time, the Green Party was dominating in the EU...

    "In the 1989 European elections, it surprised everyone by getting 2.3 million votes – some 15 per cent of the total. But Sara Parkin, who led it to victory, had already warned that it was “ill-prepared to handle any growth that came its way”."

    By the time David Icke's exploits had saturated the media, this collapsed:

    "The infighting and insanities continued and the vote in the 1992 election collapsed to 171,000."

    So, it may be little to do with Icke himself, but rather the EU and Green Party.

    So to paraphrase, Icke rationalises his descent into serious mental illness with crazy conspiracies.. and something something the green party?

    Not sure I get the link there..


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    #33
    TheSpooner
    Registered Users Posts: 46 ✭TheSpooner


    I suppose he was a bit like a cruise missile for both the EU and the Greens.

    "At that year’s conference the Greens booted out Parkin for “bringing the party into disrepute” and then gave a rapturous reception to their ex-leader David Icke – recently self-reinvented as “an aspect of the Godhead” – after he told them that the world was run by giant lizards (including the Queen) and that global warming was a scam. "

    The never recovered politically.


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    #34
    King Mob
    Registered Users Posts: 25,229 ✭✭✭✭King Mob


    TheSpooner wrote: »
    I suppose he was a bit like a cruise missile for both the EU and the Greens.

    "At that year’s conference the Greens booted out Parkin for “bringing the party into disrepute” and then gave a rapturous reception to their ex-leader David Icke – recently self-reinvented as “an aspect of the Godhead” – after he told them that the world was run by giant lizards (including the Queen) and that global warming was a scam. "

    The never recovered politically.

    Hi, I've asked you a few questions.
    Could you go back and answer them or at least explain why you are ignoring them?


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    #35
    TheSpooner
    Registered Users Posts: 46 ✭TheSpooner


    King Mob wrote: »
    Where do you get this notion? How is it any less silly than what Icke himself spouts?
    :confused:


    Physics. I don't expect anyone on this forum to be an expert in microwave tomography, remote sensing or BCIs. But, that's where the tech is at.


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    #36
    TheSpooner
    Registered Users Posts: 46 ✭TheSpooner


    King Mob wrote: »
    How do you know that this is an effect of mircowave weapons and how does this lead to him believing in lizard people?

    Why would they do this to some random ex-soccer player?

    Why can't he just be wrong?


    Always a possibility, but what he said happens to align with descriptions of a little known microwave-based BCI. I just found it interesting.


    As for why? Its an interface, so I suppose it needs to be developed and tested. So, it could be quite random. But, I suspect its not given the timing and the political effects.


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    #37
    King Mob
    Registered Users Posts: 25,229 ✭✭✭✭King Mob


    TheSpooner wrote: »
    Physics. I don't expect anyone on this forum to be an expert in microwave tomography, remote sensing or BCIs. But, that's where the tech is at.
    Can you show this is the case?
    Do you have something that shows that microwaves can be used to interface with secret government AIs?
    Can you show that microwave weapons can cause the things you claim they do?

    Are you an expert in microwave tomography?
    If so, in what way and how does this allow you to make these claims?

    In what way does "Physics" answer the question?


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    #38
    King Mob
    Registered Users Posts: 25,229 ✭✭✭✭King Mob


    TheSpooner wrote: »
    Always a possibility, but what he said happens to align with descriptions of a little known microwave-based BCI. I just found it interesting.
    It's also in line with someone spouting delusion conspiracy theories.
    We have yet to actually see that " a little known microwave-based BCI" can actually produce those effects.
    TheSpooner wrote: »
    As for why? Its an interface, so I suppose it needs to be developed and tested. So, it could be quite random. But, I suspect its not given the timing and the political effects.
    But that's not an answer to the question.
    Why would they target a well known person to "test" this? What was the benefit?


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    #39
    TheSpooner
    Registered Users Posts: 46 ✭TheSpooner


    I'll see if I can now post the links in a separate thread. But, there are plenty of scientific papers on the basic principles.

    As for why? Who knows? Was he well known when it began? Perhaps the overt effects weren't apparent to him until much later. Is it a test? Who knows? Ultimately, if accurate, it achieved a political goal and that would meake it operational equipment.

    I suppose you need to imagine the effect of the Greens on the defense sector, or perhaps Russian military ambitions. Who knows what goes on in these people's heads and how far they are willing to go.


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    #40
    King Mob
    Registered Users Posts: 25,229 ✭✭✭✭King Mob


    TheSpooner wrote: »
    I'll see if I can now post the links in a separate thread. But, there are plenty of scientific papers on the basic principles.
    I'm more interested in the scientific papers more than links to a conspiracy website.
    Please post the scientific papers that support your claim.
    TheSpooner wrote: »
    As for why? Who knows?
    It's your conspiracy theory. If you don't have a solid answer for that, then your conspiracy theory isn't much good.
    TheSpooner wrote: »
    Was he well known when it began?
    Yes. He was a well know footballer and football commentator before he began his career as a conspiracy theorist.
    TheSpooner wrote: »
    Perhaps the overt effects weren't apparent to him until much later. Is it a test? Who knows? Ultimately, if accurate, it achieved a political goal and that would meake it operational equipment.

    I suppose you need to imagine the effect of the Greens on the defense sector, or perhaps Russian military ambitions. Who knows what goes on in these people's heads and how far they are willing to go.
    None of this is an answer to the question I'm afraid.

    It doesn't explain why they would test this supposed technology on a well known public person for no reason.
    They simply would not do this. This is why you have trouble coming up with a possible answer.
    Hence, your conspiracy theory that he was targeted by microwave weapons is not very valid or convincing.


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    #41
    TheSpooner
    Registered Users Posts: 46 ✭TheSpooner


    I think speculating on motives is pointless, there is no way to objectively prove that. The best that can be said is that his personal account is consistent with microwave interfacing and that it had well defined political effects.


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    #42
    Dohnjoe
    Registered Users Posts: 17,795 ✭✭✭✭Dohnjoe


    TheSpooner wrote: »
    I think speculating on motives is pointless, there is no way to objectively prove that. The best that can be said is that his personal account is consistent with microwave interfacing and that it had well defined political effects.

    So of the below two options:

    1. He was a sports personality who was targeted by unknown powers-that-be due to the fact that he was one of the four heads of the green party at the time. These used unspecified "microwave interfacing" with the express purpose of turning him into a conspiracy nut in order to discredit him, and by extension causing political damage to the green party.

    2. He just went nuts

    You choose number 1..


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    #43
    King Mob
    Registered Users Posts: 25,229 ✭✭✭✭King Mob


    TheSpooner wrote: »
    I think speculating on motives is pointless, there is no way to objectively prove that.
    No, it's not pointless.
    If your theory had any merit you would be able to propose a reasonable consistent motive.
    But you can't provide one as there isn't one because the conspiracy theory doesn't make much sense.
    TheSpooner wrote: »
    The best that can be said is that his personal account is consistent with microwave interfacing and that it had well defined political effects.
    Well no, that can't be said at all.
    You have not shown that microwave interfacing exists.
    You previously called it a "weapon".

    You have not shown that such things can produce any such effects or that they are consistent with Icke's account.

    You have not defined the "political effects" and you cannot provide a rational motive for causing these said effects.

    Your theory is just as silly as the ones Icke proposes.


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    #44
    Boredstiff666
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,030 ✭✭✭Boredstiff666


    endacl wrote: »
    He sure is making a lot of cash...

    It appears not true. There is actually a vid on Youtube regarding this belief.

    Regards being crazy or a wind up merchant.........one of his earliest claims back in the early 90's was that some of the Royals are or have friends who are pedos.........:eek: When I meet him I am gonna ask him for the next winning Euromillions numbers.


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    #45
    Boredstiff666
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,030 ✭✭✭Boredstiff666


    Regards Reptilians. I saw another vid where I saw him explain some of that and you can see how someone can gather facts from it because ever since history began there are drawings and statues of human figures with reptile heads.

    My Mrs mother had something very similar.


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    #46
    Boredstiff666
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,030 ✭✭✭Boredstiff666


    Dohnjoe wrote: »
    Would some sort of tinfoil hat have protected him from these microwave weapons?

    Microwave weapons have been around for 40-50 years in experimental form at least.


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    #47
    white devil
    Registered Users Posts: 22 ✭white devil


    Ipso wrote: »
    Lizards is just code for jooz

    he never said that, where is your proof?


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    #48
    TheSpooner
    Registered Users Posts: 46 ✭TheSpooner


    Dohnjoe wrote: »
    So of the below two options:

    1. He was a sports personality who was targeted by unknown powers-that-be due to the fact that he was one of the four heads of the green party at the time. These used unspecified "microwave interfacing" with the express purpose of turning him into a conspiracy nut in order to discredit him, and by extension causing political damage to the green party.

    2. He just went nuts

    You choose number 1..


    Have you ever seen an official diagnosis of mental illness with David Icke?


    He's a highly successful business man, with a successful career in many sectors.


    So, where is your evidence that 'he went nuts'?


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    #49
    mr_fegelien
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,483 ✭✭✭mr_fegelien


    TheSpooner wrote: »
    Have you ever seen an official diagnosis of mental illness with David Icke?


    He's a highly successful business man, with a successful career in many sectors.


    So, where is your evidence that 'he went nuts'?

    Actually having a high intellect and being mentally disturbed is not mutually exclusive.

    Ted Kazcinskyi went to Harvard at 16, had a genius IQ, and still went on to become a mass murderer.


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    #50
    Dohnjoe
    Registered Users Posts: 17,795 ✭✭✭✭Dohnjoe


    TheSpooner wrote: »
    So, where is your evidence that 'he went nuts'?

    Uuuhh..
    Icke is a proponent of a super-duper grand unified conspiracy theory that mixes together just about every conspiracy theory you can think of; this he calls the "Babylonian Brotherhood."[note 3] All members of the media, the scientific community, the banking system, and the religions and militaries of the world's nations are mere foot-soldiers of the conspiracy. These stooges are in turn controlled by the usual suspects: the United Nations, the Bilderberg Group, the Trilateral Commission, the Illuminati, the Freemasons, the Council on Foreign Relations, the Rothschild family, the World Bank, etc. All of these groups are merely the puppets of "the global elite," which are controlled by "the prison wardens."
    https://rationalwiki.org/wiki/David_Icke

    He also claimed he was the son of god, that the country would be destroyed by tidal waves and earthquakes, reality is a hologram, he's literally every lunatic conspiracy theorist rolled into one (that or he's a genius and making serious bank off other mentally ill people who buy into his stuff)

    I think the scientific term is "fruitcake"


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    #51
    Dohnjoe
    Registered Users Posts: 17,795 ✭✭✭✭Dohnjoe


    Boredstiff666 wrote: »
    Microwave weapons have been around for 40-50 years in experimental form at least.

    Okay, got any literature on specific microwave weapons that cause people to start believing in conspiracy theories?

    There's a bit of a leap going on there that isn't being explained


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    #52
    TheSpooner
    Registered Users Posts: 46 ✭TheSpooner


    Dohnjoe wrote: »
    Uuuhh..


    https://rationalwiki.org/wiki/David_Icke

    He also claimed he was the son of god, that the country would be destroyed by tidal waves and earthquakes, reality is a hologram, he's literally every lunatic conspiracy theorist rolled into one (that or he's a genius and making serious bank off other mentally ill people who buy into his stuff)

    I think the scientific term is "fruitcake"


    Maybe, but then I think you are assuming that he buys this stuff. Take a look at Alex Jones, he doesn't buy a word he comes out with. When he identified himself in court, it was as an entertainer.


    Claims aside, there is no evidence to backup the claim of mental illness. If you know anything of schizophrenia, or psychosis, that can be ruled out instantly. A few minutes of watching him give a presentation sorts that one out.


    If you still believe he is mentally ill, can you tell us the specific illness?


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    #53
    TheSpooner
    Registered Users Posts: 46 ✭TheSpooner


    mr_fegelien wrote: »
    Actually having a high intellect and being mentally disturbed is not mutually exclusive.

    Ted Kazcinskyi went to Harvard at 16, had a genius IQ, and still went on to become a mass murderer.


    I think you need to pin it down to an actual diagnosis.


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    #54
    Dohnjoe
    Registered Users Posts: 17,795 ✭✭✭✭Dohnjoe


    TheSpooner wrote: »
    Maybe, but then I think you are assuming that he buys this stuff. Take a look at Alex Jones, he doesn't buy a word he comes out with. When he identified himself in court, it was as an entertainer.

    He stood by it in his depositio, whether he was trying to dilute it is hard to tell

    He's either an excellent actor, or he has just followed on from his rage and anger issues that were around since he was a child

    It seems to be a mixture of both. Like many conspiracy theorists he seems to know it's all bull****, but he's just making a ton of money from it
    If you still believe he is mentally ill, can you tell us the specific illness?

    Nope, when someone genuinely believes they are e.g. the son of god, it doesn't mean they are incapacitated mentally or suffer a specific condition e.g. schizophrenia, it just means they have some sort of mental delusion or extreme susceptibility to suggestion

    I've met very intelligent articulate people who have no discernible "mental illness", but have been described as mentally ill (without definition) by psychologists and psychiatrists.


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    #55
    TheSpooner
    Registered Users Posts: 46 ✭TheSpooner


    Dohnjoe wrote: »
    I've met very intelligent articulate people who have no discernible "mental illness", but have been described as mentally ill (without definition) by psychologists and psychiatrists.


    It doesn't work like that. Mental illness is not some loose classification that can just be thrown about. There are highly specific illnesses and very specific diagnostic criteria. Ultimately, its a form of brain injury, temporary or otherwise and the sources of that injury are varied. Everything from genetics, to poisoning.



    For example, while Schizophrenia is widely known, it is also a very rare disease. It effects about 20 million people world wide, or about 0.2% of the global population.


    https://www.who.int/news-room/fact-sheets/detail/mental-disorders


    There are about twice as many living with HIV. So, to put that in perspective, you are twice as likely to meet someone with HIV as to meet someone with Schizophrenia.


    In the context of Ireland, with about 5 million people, you would expect about 700 people to have Schizophrenia.


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    #56
    Dohnjoe
    Registered Users Posts: 17,795 ✭✭✭✭Dohnjoe


    TheSpooner wrote: »
    It doesn't work like that. Mental illness is not some loose classification that can just be thrown about.

    Actually it is. Psychologists and primarily psychiatrists can diagnose someone as mentally ill without specifying a known condition. I have direct experience of this, I know several people who are receiving disability because of unspecified mental conditions and illnesses.


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    #57
    King Mob
    Registered Users Posts: 25,229 ✭✭✭✭King Mob


    TheSpooner wrote: »
    It doesn't work like that. Mental illness is not some loose classification that can just be thrown about. .

    Hi, you are again dodging some points I made.
    It's very hypocritical for you to say then when you have yet to substantiate your claims about AI controlled microwave weapons.

    Could you be more specific?
    What microwave weapon was used on Icke? When? Whose?


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    #58
    TheSpooner
    Registered Users Posts: 46 ✭TheSpooner


    Dohnjoe wrote: »
    Actually it is. Psychologists and primarily psychiatrists can diagnose someone as mentally ill without specifying a known condition. I have direct experience of this, I know several people who are receiving disability because of unspecified mental conditions and illnesses.


    You're not privy to their medical notes. They will have a defined diagnosis. There is a legal meaning to 'mental illness' in Ireland:


    "“... a state of mind of a person which affects the person’s thinking, perceiving, emotion or judgement and which seriously impairs the mental function of the person to the extent that he or she requires care or medical treatment in his or her own interest or in the interest of other persons.”"


    The typical guidance makes references to ICD-10 and DSM-IV-TR.


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    #59
    TheSpooner
    Registered Users Posts: 46 ✭TheSpooner


    King Mob wrote: »
    What microwave weapon was used on Icke? When? Whose?


    I can only go by what the guy said. Sometime around 1990 he describes a range of events which are consistent with the claimed capabilities of microwave weapons. So accurate is this description, its unlikely to be anything else.


    As for who, that's a short list and its a bit like a whodunnit...they all have motives.


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    #60
    King Mob
    Registered Users Posts: 25,229 ✭✭✭✭King Mob


    TheSpooner wrote: »
    I can only go by what the guy said.
    But why can't he be specific?
    Why is it that "mental illness" is not specific enough for you?
    That's a bit self contradictory there.
    TheSpooner wrote: »
    Sometime around 1990 he describes a range of events which are consistent with the claimed capabilities of microwave weapons. So accurate is this description, its unlikely to be anything else.
    You keep claiming this, yet you have not shown that these are the capabilities or microwave weapons. (Nevermind the existence of said weapons.)

    Icke's claims and actions are also consistent with people having mental illness.
    We know that mental illnesses exist.

    So why should we discount that explanation?
    TheSpooner wrote: »
    As for who, that's a short list and its a bit like a whodunnit...they all have motives.
    Motives such as...?


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    #61
    TheSpooner
    Registered Users Posts: 46 ✭TheSpooner


    King Mob wrote: »
    But why can't he be specific?


    I don't think he knows. If he did, then obviously he has a gun to his head.

    King Mob wrote: »
    Why is it that "mental illness" is not specific enough for you?


    I'm well aware of what mental illness is, he demonstrates none of the other symptoms.


    King Mob wrote: »
    You keep claiming this, yet you have not shown that these are the capabilities or microwave weapons. (Nevermind the existence of said weapons.)


    Once you get over your reading disability (whatever that's about), I'm sure you will find all you need at those links I shared in the other thread.


    King Mob wrote: »
    Icke's claims and actions are also consistent with people having mental illness.
    We know that mental illnesses exist.


    True, but we also know that he demonstrates no symptoms associated with any known mental illness.

    King Mob wrote: »
    So why should we discount that explanation?


    Its the more absurd of the two if you know what you are talking about.




    King Mob wrote: »
    Motives such as...?


    Political power, economics, operational testing, geo-political power plays, foreign control, etc.


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