Do you think Alen Kelly will pay at the next election for what he has done to rents?

Jaketherake · 07-11-2015 9:43am #1

I think he is directly responsible for the sharp increase in rents.

His only hope now is that some other crisis even bigger than the one he has caused for the renter appears before the election.

Hes very lucky hes not running in Dublin, but his folly will carry through to his party colleagues votes everywhere.

hytrogen · 07-11-2015 10:03am

Between that & the 'Eircode' fiasco I'd be surprised if he doesn't stand as party leader next time! What a clown

rossmores · 07-11-2015 10:11am

As a landlord in dublin I hope Labour gets annihilated in the next election it disgusting the way failure in government policy leading to the housing crisis has been unfairly blamed on landlords i have not displaced 1 tenant or increased rents to level being quoted in the media
As for Alan Kelly he is a bumbling twit not fit for office voted in by parish politics

rockatansky · 07-11-2015 10:40am

Hopefully both him and his party end up joining the PDs and the Greens in the political graveyard.

banie01 · 07-11-2015 10:48am

Unfortunately I can't see this having much impact on his being re-elected.
He's TD for a mainly rural constituency who tend to vote for what they know. While there will be a reaction to Irish Water, housing and the rest of the ongoing social and political problems, unless he is faced in his constituency by either a unified "leftist" candidate to prevent opposition vote being fragmented he will likely be reelected. The choice will come down to fragmented opposition from left and independents and sinn fein or to vote fianna faíl, fg and completely ignore the party politics that have brought the country to its current state. In that situation I think as incumbent he will be reelected as part of a much diminished labour party

gaius c · 07-11-2015 12:37pm

I will be voting against labour for the way in which they've participated in making life harder for lower-waged working households but it's silly to blame the rental crisis entirely on Alan Kelly. Our minister for property price rises deserves a lot of "credit" too.

Eugene Norman · 07-11-2015 12:39pm

Jaketherake wrote: »

I think he is directly responsible for the sharp increase in rents.

His only hope now is that some other crisis even bigger than the one he has caused for the renter appears before the election.

Hes very lucky hes not running in Dublin, but his folly will carry through to his party colleagues votes everywhere.

The rent increases happened long before he did anything. Not that rent increases affect votes in Dublin. Most renters support some kind of control but most voters aren't renters.

Eugene Norman · 07-11-2015 12:40pm

gaius c wrote: »

I will be voting against labour for the way in which they've participated in making life harder for lower-waged working households but it's silly to blame the rental crisis entirely on Alan Kelly. Our minister for property price rises deserves a lot of "credit" too.

Of course. The state owns land banks. It owns property. It's keeping the mortgage owners and landlords happy. Alan Kelly suggests a minor form of control and the subsidised landlords start crying "free market". No such cries when mortgage holders were in arrears and not being re- possessed.

Eugene Norman · 07-11-2015 12:43pm

rossmores wrote: »

As a landlord in dublin I hope Labour gets annihilated in the next election it disgusting the way failure in government policy leading to the housing crisis has been unfairly blamed on landlords i have not displaced 1 tenant or increased rents to level being quoted in the media
As for Alan Kelly he is a bumbling twit not fit for office voted in by parish politics

As a renter I would vote for any party that crushed landlords.

However most voters in Dublin are property owners or live at home. Renters are from the country where they vote, or immigrants who don't vote that often.

To correct the landlord run oligarchy that controls Ireland would probably take some multinational threatening to pull out.

Diarmuid · 07-11-2015 1:52pm

Eugene Norman wrote: »

As a renter I would vote for any party that crushed landlords.

As a renter you have a very strong self-interest in ensuring landlords are not "crushed".

PolaroidPizza · 07-11-2015 1:55pm

I didn't follow this story too closely, but it was my impression AK wanted the rent increases linked to inflation, it was Michael Noonans department that fought it. If you're not happy with the proposed legislation, would it not be Noonan who should pay at the election?

alias no.9 · 07-11-2015 2:05pm

Rent control will not deliver a single extra rental property and will make it harder for anyone looking for a new place to rent. Tax zoned development land on an escalating scale and tax empty properties.

Eugene Norman · 07-11-2015 2:08pm

Diarmuid wrote: »

As a renter you have a very strong self-interest in ensuring landlords are not "crushed".

No I don't. If they sell up I buy in. In any real free market all Irish housing would be cheap. I would also crush landlordism with social housing, and a huge policy of house building.

robp · 07-11-2015 5:13pm

Eugene Norman wrote: »

No I don't. If they sell up I buy in. In any real free market all Irish housing would be cheap. I would also crush landlordism with social housing, and a huge policy of house building.

Desirable locations would never be cheap because there is a genuine scarcity but to some extent its true that if banks were allowed to re-possess more banking would be cheaper and thus mortgages would be cheaper.

garhjw · 07-11-2015 8:22pm

Eugene Norman wrote: »

No I don't. If they sell up I buy in. In any real free market all Irish housing would be cheap. I would also crush landlordism with social housing, and a huge policy of house building.

You haven't got a clue what you are talking about. Where do you dream up such nonsense?

The is a supply shortage in Dublin and other areas in Ireland. That is what increases rents. Along with bumbling government policy.

newacc2015 · 07-11-2015 8:28pm

IMO this will completely alienate anyone who is self-employed from voting Labour(they have always been anti-business to me). If I was a business owner, I would be afraid of what Labour would do to my industry

I dont think labour will stand a chance. They arent extreme enough for their former target voters. They want SF or AAA who will throw money at welfare and "tax the rich". Yet they are too extreme for the rich ie someone earning over €35k a year in the eyes of Labour.

Labour is a party with a lack of vision. The only thing making them unique is their stance on Abortion. But that could alienate more voters than it will gain.

handlemaster · 07-11-2015 8:48pm

Eugene Norman wrote: »

As a renter I would vote for any party that crushed landlords.

However most voters in Dublin are property owners or live at home. Renters are from the country where they vote, or immigrants who don't vote that often.

To correct the landlord run oligarchy that controls Ireland would probably take some multinational threatening to pull out.

Where to start with a statement like that ! It doesnt make any sence

handlemaster · 07-11-2015 8:54pm

Eugene Norman wrote: »

No I don't. If they sell up I buy in. In any real free market all Irish housing would be cheap. I would also crush landlordism with social housing, and a huge policy of house building.

Why would irish housing be cheap ? What is cheap in your estimation ? I presume if you were in government you would implement this policy of putting landlords out of business . You would build social housing .... care to enlighten us as to where and how much this would cost. Even with the left looneys SF I havent heard this one.

ted1 · 07-11-2015 8:57pm

PolaroidPizza wrote: »

I didn't follow this story too closely, but it was my impression AK wanted the rent increases linked to inflation, it was Michael Noonans department that fought it. If you're not happy with the proposed legislation, would it not be Noonan who should pay at the election?

How can they try to keep a free market tied in inflation , when no government service can? Look at the increase in getting copies of birth Certs etc.

Also they have added LPT, USC, PRTB, BER and many more costs on to landlords over the past few years. They have also made it impossible to get rid of a non paying tenant and its virtually impossible to recoup costs from damage they do.

As for RAS tenants they should go gurantor for these, if there willing to pay there rent they should be willing to cover any damage they do and any breach of contract and non payment of rent.

4ensic15 · 07-11-2015 9:00pm

ted1 wrote: »

They have also made it impossible to get rid of a non paying tenant

It is not impossible to get rid of a non paying tenant.

ted1 · 07-11-2015 9:07pm

4ensic15 wrote: »

It is not impossible to get rid of a non paying tenant.

It's possible but it's a long drawn out expensive event.

grass_grower · 07-11-2015 9:12pm

4ensic15 wrote: »

It is not impossible to get rid of a non paying tenant.

their is no consequence to being a delinquent tenant in this country , the common perception that tenants in ireland have no rights is so off the mark , its a bad joke

Banjoxed · 07-11-2015 9:16pm

I am a landlord, but in addition to the mock outrage of Sinn Féin and their ilk, I now have another reason to give Labour my number 1.

Thanks guys!

PolaroidPizza · 07-11-2015 9:45pm

ted1 wrote: »

How can they try to keep a free market tied in inflation , when no government service can? Look at the increase in getting copies of birth Certs etc.

so because the price of college fees goes up 500 % the government has no right to try and control something completely unrelated?

the government makes attempts to control the prices as diverse as alcohol, air fares, sports coverage and private consultant salaries...but yet they shouldn't try and control rent?

ye might as well say because they cannot control a health budget they shouldn't try and keep Iarnroid Eireann in budget.

ted1 · 07-11-2015 9:49pm

PolaroidPizza wrote: »

so because the price of college fees goes up 500 % the government has no right to try and control something completely unrelated?

the government makes attempts to control the prices as diverse as alcohol, air fares, sports coverage and private consultant salaries...but yet they shouldn't try and control rent?

ye might as well say because they cannot control a health budget they shouldn't try and keep Iarnroid Eireann in budget.

If they can't control the prices they have total responsible for , how can they expect other people too. As I stated they have lumped on loads of additional charges into landlords , that's the reason why they have gone up loads

4ensic15 · 07-11-2015 9:58pm

ted1 wrote: »

It's possible but it's a long drawn out expensive event.

Need not be particularly long drawn out or expensive if done properly.

fly_agaric · 07-11-2015 10:15pm

rossmores wrote: »

As a landlord in dublin I hope Labour gets annihilated in the next election it disgusting the way failure in government policy leading to the housing crisis has been unfairly blamed on landlords i have not displaced 1 tenant or increased rents to level being quoted in the media
As for Alan Kelly he is a bumbling twit not fit for office voted in by parish politics

Well landlords are one of Ireland's little protected circles, Fine Fail and Fianna Gael both seem to love them so that's probably where some of the (misplaced) anger comes from.
I wonder how many tee-dees are landlords and/or property owners (in the sense of having more land/property assets than just the property you live in)?
To be honest i was amazed the prtb got setup in this country. Did the EU have anything to do with it? I believe its usually the origin of anything that strikes me as a bit "unIrish".

garhjw · 07-11-2015 11:25pm

fly_agaric wrote: »

Well landlords are one of Ireland's little protected circles, Fine Fail and Fianna Gael both seem to love them so that's probably where some of the (misplaced) anger comes from.
I wonder how many tee-dees are landlords and/or property owners (in the sense of having more land/property assets than just the property you live in)?
To be honest i was amazed the prtb got setup in this country. Did the EU have anything to do with it? I believe its usually the origin of anything that strikes me as a bit "unIrish".

Where do you get these notions? The problem is not landlords, it is a lack of supply. Like anything where there is a supply shortage the price goes up. It's a landlords fault that successive governments haven't provided sufficient social housing? Cop yourself on

robp · 07-11-2015 11:57pm

fly_agaric wrote: »

Well landlords are one of Ireland's little protected circles, Fine Fail and Fianna Gael both seem to love them so that's probably where some of the (misplaced) anger comes from.
I wonder how many tee-dees are landlords and/or property owners (in the sense of having more land/property assets than just the property you live in)?
To be honest i was amazed the prtb got setup in this country. Did the EU have anything to do with it? I believe its usually the origin of anything that strikes me as a bit "unIrish".

That is a ridiculous comment given how heavily taxed rental income is.

ted1 · 08-11-2015 12:48am

4ensic15 wrote: »

Need not be particularly long drawn out or expensive if done properly.

Any dispute has to go through the PRTB, that takes time even if just 5 months that could be over 10k on rent for a 4 bed in Dublin

handlemaster · 08-11-2015 8:22am

4ensic15 wrote: »

Need not be particularly long drawn out or expensive if done properly.

Can you elaborate on this please. Because to my knowledge and lighter wallet the landlord pays throw the nose for a nonpaying tenant. Even with a case win with the prtb which could take a year or more its not enforceable in itself. In the mean time no rent is been paid and in all likelyhood damage done to the property. Also damage done by a tenant or his /her guests is not covered by insurance.

Jaketherake · 08-11-2015 9:19am

handlemaster wrote: »

Can you elaborate on this please. Because to my knowledge and lighter wallet the landlord pays throw the nose for a nonpaying tenant. Even with a case win with the prtb which could take a year or more its not enforceable in itself. In the mean time no rent is been paid and in all likelyhood damage done to the property. Also damage done by a tenant or his /her guests is not covered by insurance.

id love in on this secret too.

irish_major · 08-11-2015 10:32am

garhjw wrote: »

You haven't got a clue what you are talking about. Where do you dream up such nonsense?

The is a supply shortage in Dublin and other areas in Ireland. That is what increases rents. Along with bumbling government policy.

Landlords increase rents.
It's a pity how the government have dealt with this situation, the delay in bringing it in, but thankfully something has been done, my rent went up earlier in the year so it's a great comfort knowing it's going to be remaining the same for the next while.
Really shows the greed which still lives strong in this country that most landlords who'd be quite happy with what they're earning still feel the need to Jack up their rent because they're worried they won't be able to do it on a yearly basis from now on and that is something which the government can not be blamed for, it's just the greed culture returning.

handlemaster · 08-11-2015 10:39am

irish_major wrote: »

Landlords increase rents.
It's a pity how the government have dealt with this situation, the delay in bringing it in, but thankfully something has been done, my rent went up earlier in the year so it's a great comfort knowing it's going to be remaining the same for the next while.
Really shows the greed which still lives strong in this country that most landlords who'd be quite happy with what they're earning still feel the need to Jack up their rent because they're worried they won't be able to do it on a yearly basis from now on and that is something which the government can not be blamed for, it's just the greed culture returning.

Its business not a charity.

When rents go down I assume you will advocating that tenants offer more than market rate ?

irish_major · 08-11-2015 10:52am

handlemaster wrote: »

Its business not a charity.

When rents go down I assume you will advocating that tenants offer more than market rate ?

Completely understood about it being a business, obviously as businesses go, not a very tough business to set up so for that reason you get a lot of, how do I put this, less than intelligent, people speculating by buying and then renting and thinking they can make a quick buck by charging ridiculous rents.
I love the term market rate. You do realise who sets the market rate? Funny seeing all the angel landlords we have on boards at the moment too

ted1 · 08-11-2015 11:03am

irish_major wrote: »

I love the term market rate. You do realise who sets the market rate? Funny seeing all the angel landlords we have on boards at the moment too

tenants do,the market rate is what the market bears. which is what tenants are willing to pay

handlemaster · 08-11-2015 11:14am

irish_major wrote: »

Completely understood about it being a business, obviously as businesses go, not a very tough business to set up so for that reason you get a lot of, how do I put this, less than intelligent, people speculating by buying and then renting and thinking they can make a quick buck by charging ridiculous rents.
I love the term market rate. You do realise who sets the market rate? Funny seeing all the angel landlords we have on boards at the moment too

Yiu said earlier that prices are high so it cant be that easy.

garhjw · 08-11-2015 12:10pm

irish_major wrote: »

Completely understood about it being a business, obviously as businesses go, not a very tough business to set up so for that reason you get a lot of, how do I put this, less than intelligent, people speculating by buying and then renting and thinking they can make a quick buck by charging ridiculous rents.
I love the term market rate. You do realise who sets the market rate? Funny seeing all the angel landlords we have on boards at the moment too

You completely don't understand about business, economics or market forces.
There are plenty of "less than intelligent" non landlords out there hat seem to have all the answers

fly_agaric · 08-11-2015 3:19pm

garhjw wrote: »

Where do you get these notions? The problem is not landlords, it is a lack of supply. Like anything where there is a supply shortage the price goes up. It's a landlords fault that successive governments haven't provided sufficient social housing? Cop yourself on

I said any anger towards landlords about accommodation shortages was misplaced. The "notions" about landlords and property investors in Ireland being politically favoured by the two big parties, I've picked op over the years!

robp wrote:

That is a ridiculous comment given how heavily taxed rental income is.

Really? Compared to what? PAYE income? Tax-breaks seem to be the solution to every sectors' problems (and if that doesn't work scrap regulations!).

4ensic15 · 08-11-2015 8:49pm

ted1 wrote: »

Any dispute has to go through the PRTB, that takes time even if just 5 months that could be over 10k on rent for a 4 bed in Dublin

PRTB prioritise non paying/overholders. Start the dispute as soon as the 14 days are up. Get the determination order and off to the District Court. Tenant on a criminal charge in court in a few weeks.

toptom · 08-11-2015 9:00pm

He might go the way of Maire Hoctor here in tipperary. I'v never voted labour in my life but might be tempted to give Alan a preference vote this time around as a way to keep the shinners out. Lowry is my man though always get the 1 vote from our household.

jetfiremuck · 08-11-2015 9:35pm

Fact. The Govt/CoCo have no interest in being landlords. Tried that before and ended up selling houses to sitting tenants. Ditto rubbish bin disposal, if anyone remembers. The gov are only interested in returns to the exchequer. Tenants and SW are a big voting block, hence policy's that encourage it. Rent controls by Kelly spooked the rental market and forced the hand of landlords to act. Like people filling up petrol when budget hits to save a few cents. Don't forget " talk to your landlord " shrill a few years ago, or Harneys " shop around for health insurance" ffsss

jetfiremuck · 08-11-2015 9:36pm

4ensic15 wrote: »

PRTB prioritise non paying/overholders. Start the dispute as soon as the 14 days are up. Get the determination order and off to the District Court. Tenant on a criminal charge in court in a few weeks.

Really !!!!!!

jetfiremuck · 08-11-2015 9:37pm

Who's bright idea to close bedsits etc, what real motivation was behind that........to those that forgot.

4ensic15 · 08-11-2015 9:37pm

jetfiremuck wrote: »

Really !!!!!!

Yes.

The_Conductor · 09-11-2015 7:52am

Guys- the proportion of pure politicising over and above debate about Accommodation and Property (and the policy relating thereof)- has skewed far too far into Politics. This is not the remit of the Accommodation and Property forum- and accordingly- the thread is being moved to the politics forum.

Regards,

The_Conductor

handlemaster · 09-11-2015 9:24am

toptom wrote: »

He might go the way of Maire Hoctor here in tipperary. I'v never voted labour in my life but might be tempted to give Alan a preference vote this time around as a way to keep the shinners out. Lowry is my man though always get the 1 vote from our household.

Why people would vote for Lowry is beyond me.

The_Conductor · 09-11-2015 10:16am

handlemaster wrote: »

Why people would vote for Lowry is beyond me.

Me too- and it never ceases to amaze me just how popular he is down in Tipperary........ However- he is popular, he does consistently get voted in, he has a mandate from his electorate- who are we to reason why..........

irish_major · 09-11-2015 1:54pm

ted1 wrote: »

tenants do,the market rate is what the market bears. which is what tenants are willing to pay

That's one of the stupidest things I've ever read.

If a village in the middle of nowhere has 2 petrol pumps and they decide to charge €3 per litre of petrol the villagers have little choice but to pay the €3. That's not a market just because they're willing to pay/have to pay that much, that's a scam.

garhjw · 09-11-2015 2:39pm

irish_major wrote: »

That's one of the stupidest things I've ever read.

If a village in the middle of nowhere has 2 petrol pumps and they decide to charge €3 per litre of petrol the villagers have little choice but to pay the €3. That's not a market just because they're willing to pay/have to pay that much, that's a scam.

you just defeated your own argument with that statement.

golfball37 · 13-11-2015 3:19pm

toptom wrote: »

He might go the way of Maire Hoctor here in tipperary. I'v never voted labour in my life but might be tempted to give Alan a preference vote this time around as a way to keep the shinners out. Lowry is my man though always get the 1 vote from our household.

What Shinners in Tipperary? They didn't even top 6% in a recent election, when they've never been as high nationally.

My in laws all from Tipperary all vote Lowry to a man themselves.

Do you think Alen Kelly will pay at the next election for what he has done to rents?

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