Is it time for a Dublin lockdown?

is_that_so · 18-09-2020 8:48am

plodder wrote: »

I don't follow the logic of closing restaurants when the problem is in private homes (according to them). If the preference is for controlled settings then youd want to continue re-opening

It's part of a range of measures aimed at reducing the number of locations where you might have people congregating.

Eod100 · 18-09-2020 8:49am

HBC08 wrote: »

A lot of headlines saying indoor dining will be banned,i think a lot of it is sensationalist clickbait nonsense. and i dont think this will be announced,it would be a mistake on every possible level.I have no faith in MM but surely even he is not so dumb.We wait and see....

The reports are that NPHET has recommended and government may accept. Will have to wait and see this afternoon/evening

hmmm · 18-09-2020 8:50am

is_that_so wrote: »

It's part of a range of measures aimed at reducing the number of locations where you might have people congregating.

Unfortunately I expect so. If people are not happy about allowing the Guards to break up house parties which are not following the rules, the only options available to the government to decrease spread is to shut down the legal venues where people congregate. Which is completely unfair of course, but there's not much choice.

HBC08 · 18-09-2020 8:50am

is_that_so wrote: »

It's part of a range of measures aimed at reducing the number of locations where you might have people congregating.

But surely you must see that its moving people from controlled environments (where there is negligible spread) to uncontrolled envoirnments (where the major problem is)?
If this happens i would really worry about our leadership.

Eod100 · 18-09-2020 8:54am

HBC08 wrote: »

But surely you must see that its moving people from controlled environments (where there is negligible spread) to uncontrolled envoirnments (where the major problem is)?
If this happens i would really worry about our leadership.

I think the thinking is that message will.help reduce people visiting houses as much. And Gardai have new powers to break up house parties

is_that_so · 18-09-2020 8:56am

HBC08 wrote: »

But surely you must see that its moving people from controlled environments (where there is negligible spread) to uncontrolled envoirnments (where the major problem is)?
If this happens i would really worry about our leadership.

It's not that uncontrolled unless there are a lot of visitors. It's moving people back to locations where the contacts would generally all be known and far more limited.

plodder · 18-09-2020 9:01am

hmmm wrote: »

Unfortunately I expect so. If people are not happy about allowing the Guards to break up house parties which are not following the rules, the only options available to the government to decrease spread is to shut down the legal venues where people congregate. Which is completely unfair of course, but there's not much choice.

So, we have to be seen to do something, anything .. other than what would deal with the actual problem? How do other countries deal with the house party issue?

Diarmuid · 18-09-2020 9:02am

Remember when Tegnell said that Sweden were implementing a sustainable approach that they could live with for months to years? And half of boards.ie had to get out the smelling salts? Yeah, this is the sh1t he was talking about

weldoninhio · 18-09-2020 9:02am

Eod100 wrote: »

See my post above. The issue wasnt would I be paid, it was about taking precautions. You've taken my post out of the original context and completely misinterpreted it

HSE policy is that if someone close to you is going for a test you have no need to isolate. If they return as a positive for Covid, then you isolate. I know, I work for them and have had multiple colleagues go for testing. I don't believe that your GP doesn't know this.

And you were the one who brought up pay "and work might not even pay me for days I've missed"

JojoLoca · 18-09-2020 9:04am

HBC08 wrote: »

A lot of headlines saying indoor dining will be banned,i think a lot of it is sensationalist clickbait nonsense. and i dont think this will be announced,it would be a mistake on every possible level.I have no faith in MM but surely even he is not so dumb.We wait and see....

I agree, closing pubs and restaurants now would a step too far. The government needs to make up their minds at which level Dublin should be for the next 3 weeks. If it's level 3, pubs, restaurants, hotels are meant to be open.

quokula · 18-09-2020 9:06am

Diarmuid wrote: »

Remember when Tegnell said that Sweden were implementing a sustainable approach that they could live with for months to years? And half of boards.ie had to get out the smelling salts? Yeah, this is the sh1t he was talking about

And all they had to do was let the virus kill off 6000 of their people.

is_that_so · 18-09-2020 9:06am

Diarmuid wrote: »

Remember when Tegnell said that Sweden were implementing a sustainable approach that they could live with for months to years? And half of boards.ie had to get out the smelling salts? Yeah, this is the sh1t he was talking about

Except that they were killing the oldies to do so. Not a good plan and borderline sociopathy.

weldoninhio · 18-09-2020 9:08am

is_that_so wrote: »

Except that they were killing the oldies to do so. Not a good plan and borderline sociopathy.

The rate of over 65 deaths is Sweden per 1,000,000 is pretty much the same as Ireland.

plodder · 18-09-2020 9:09am

is_that_so wrote: »

Except that they were killing the oldies to do so. Not a good plan.

We killed more of our oldies than they did by the peak of the first wave. Nobody would say it was part of any plan.

is_that_so · 18-09-2020 9:12am

plodder wrote: »

We killed more of our oldies than they did. Nobody would say it was part of any plan.

If your plan is "brilliant" like Sweden, then it must be. Quite a flaw in it.

Mantis Toboggan · 18-09-2020 9:16am

Too little too late, Dublin should have been in lockdown at least 2 weeks ago.

quokula · 18-09-2020 9:17am

Sweden’s brilliant plan.

Hurrache · 18-09-2020 9:18am

plodder wrote: »

I don't follow the logic of closing restaurants when the problem is in private homes (according to them). If the preference is for controlled settings then youd want to continue re-opening

Because if the issue is in the community, it'll be brought into restaurants. There's been a lot of whinging that pubs/restaurants haven't had clusters, but once it's so widespread it'll just be brought into them and spread that way.
It's preventative, not reactive.

Mongfinder General · 18-09-2020 9:20am

Peter Flynt wrote: »

The elephant in the room is the schools. There's no social distancing going on.
NPHET know it, Glynn knows it, Nolan kows it, the politicians know it. . . .but it is all being swept under the carpet with even reports that the HSE are telling teachers to return to classes tomorrow despite having been in the presence of a COVID carrier today.
Compare that to the over-reaction of when Donnelly felt a bit unwell this week.

We haven't even reached the end of the second full week of schools opened in Ireland and Dublin is effectively going back to lockdown.

Before anyone states that the situation was getting worse before schools opened. . . Well this is true and this can be brought back to early August when things started going wrong.

There was a gradual increase in the 14 day average rate with that value being 25.8 cases per day on Aug 1st to 109.7 cases per day on Aug 31st.
Today, September 17th, this figure is now 202.8 cases per day

Now hang on a second. You can't seriously expect Mammy or Daddy to stay home and parent their children? That would involve mammy and daddy looking away from their phones for more than 5 mins. No, no, let's just shove Johnny and Mary back into school, they can be somebody else's problem for most of the day.

quokula · 18-09-2020 9:23am

Mongfinder General wrote: »

Now hang on a second. You can't seriously expect Mammy or Daddy to stay home and parent their children? That would involve mammy and daddy looking away from their phones for more than 5 mins. No, no, let's just shove Johnny and Mary back into school, they can be somebody else's problem for most of the day.

Not everyone is unemployed.

Eod100 · 18-09-2020 9:23am

weldoninhio wrote: »

HSE policy is that if someone close to you is going for a test you have no need to isolate. If they return as a positive for Covid, then you isolate. I know, I work for them and have had multiple colleagues go for testing. I don't believe that your GP doesn't know this.

And you were the one who brought up pay "and work might not even pay me for days I've missed"

I'm aware of the guidance. My GP advised as an extra precaution I should restrict my movements. I have no reason to lie about this but you can believe what you want. I know for a fact what I've stayed is true, but you are entitled to your belief. Again the quote you are using out of context or original post I was replying to was about selfish people not restricting movements, I was contrasting that with what I did as extra precaution. What are you trying to achieve here with responses like this?

ixoy · 18-09-2020 9:24am

Hurrache wrote: »

Because if the issue is in the community, it'll be brought into restaurants. There's been a lot of whinging that pubs/restaurants haven't had clusters, but once it's so widespread it'll just be brought into them and spread that way.

That's why there's safety measures in the restaurants though - to limit people's interactions and prevent that scenario. They could easily enough tighten that a bit, such as having masks being worn any time you're not at the table or reducing totals from 6 to 4 but seems there's no room for compromise.

And as to "whinging" - There are people's jobs affected directly.

plodder · 18-09-2020 9:24am

^ I see the vertical scale on that graph is compressed for maximum effect. Nice one.

But, the effect on Sweden is at least partly explained by the "good" Winter they had the previous year compared to those other countries. So, they had a larger pool of vulnerable elderly for Covid to pick off.

Anyway, this is supposed to be about us and what we are supposed to do. We have a choice now whether to close restaurants in Dublin or not. Nobody has put forward a good reason yet why we should.

Pinoy adventure · 18-09-2020 9:29am

WhiteMan32 wrote: »

Remember - Martin, Varadka & Donnelly do not like the L word. Rest assured, it won't be mentioned by any of them at the press conference.

I know but I would like too know what time the meeting takes places so we can escape befour we get lock in like sardines in a can

plodder · 18-09-2020 9:30am

Hurrache wrote: »

Because if the issue is in the community, it'll be brought into restaurants. There's been a lot of whinging that pubs/restaurants haven't had clusters, but once it's so widespread it'll just be brought into them and spread that way.
It's preventative, not reactive.

So, full lockdown is the answer, is what you are saying. Prevent and keep it out. because closing restaurants where it is not occurring while allowing house parties where it is, will lead to full lockdown.

And it's not what they have been saying; living with it requires more nuanced strategies eg that controlled settings can be an alternative to uncontrolled ones.

How do other countries manage the house party problem?

dmakc · 18-09-2020 9:31am

Pinoy adventure wrote: »

I know but I would like too know what time the meeting takes places so we can escape befour we get lock in like sardines in a can

If you've a house to go to there will be no issue leaving Dublin. They aren't going to put military barricades up on the motorways

is_that_so · 18-09-2020 9:32am

Pinoy adventure wrote: »

I know but I would like too know what time the meeting takes places so we can escape before we get lock in like sardines in a can

I reckon it will come into effect from midnight so I'd say you have till then!

is_that_so · 18-09-2020 9:35am

plodder wrote: »

^ I see the vertical scale on that graph is compressed for maximum effect. Nice one.

But, the effect on Sweden is at least partly explained by the "good" Winter they had the previous year compared to those other countries. So, they had a larger pool of vulnerable elderly for Covid to pick off.

Anyway, this is supposed to be about us and what we are supposed to do. We have a choice now whether to close restaurants in Dublin or not. Nobody has put forward a good reason yet why we should.

Reducing movement and limiting the numbers of people out and about is why it's proposed, as we did back in March. As Holohan said many times it's
to push it back into individual households.

Kylta · 18-09-2020 9:37am

I think the covid problem stems from indecisiveness. Whether your for or against lockdown or whether you believe that covid is a worldwide conspiracy or not. The government should've made a decision at the start either to lockdown or not, this dittering is stupid. And I curious to know, if we lockdown dublin. Do we close the airport and the passenger ferries. Do we restrict the train movements? My opinion is that they stop the fu¢king dittering and decided what their going to do.

HBC08 · 18-09-2020 9:39am

Hurrache wrote: »

Because if the issue is in the community, it'll be brought into restaurants. There's been a lot of whinging that pubs/restaurants haven't had clusters, but once it's so widespread it'll just be brought into them and spread that way.
It's preventative, not reactive.

Youve got to counter balance that (which is a good point) against the fact it will drive more into uncontrolled envoirnments. One risk greatly outweights the other and thats from a health point of view,thats even before you consider the disastrous economic consequences.It makes no sense on any level.
Anyway I dont think itll be implemented.

Busi_Girl08 · 18-09-2020 9:39am

Hurrache wrote: »

Because if the issue is in the community, it'll be brought into restaurants. There's been a lot of whinging that pubs/restaurants haven't had clusters, but once it's so widespread it'll just be brought into them and spread that way.
It's preventative, not reactive.

And yet shopping centres and other non essential retail are fair game?

Pinoy adventure · 18-09-2020 9:51am

is_that_so wrote: »

I reckon it will come into effect from midnight so I'd say you have till then!

I heard that too but just wanted too be sure.we will be long gone by mid night

nthclare · 18-09-2020 9:57am

As a Clare man I think it's ridiculous to lock down the capital.

They should be able to trace the clusters and it's unfair undermining the people who are behaving themselves, keeping the distance and adhering to the suggestions.

I love hearing the Dublin banter and craic when they come down my way, lovely people.
They love interaction and love the West of Ireland.

Hopefully with the good weather on the way some will make it to the west of Ireland and have a nice break for themselves....

Gods Gift · 18-09-2020 9:59am

Big step locking down the third largest economy in the world. (According to the dubs).

JimmyVik · 18-09-2020 10:04am

Kylta wrote: »

I think the covid problem stems from indecisiveness. Whether your for or against lockdown or whether you believe that covid is a worldwide conspiracy or not. The government should've made a decision at the start either to lockdown or not, this dittering is stupid. And I curious to know, if we lockdown dublin. Do we close the airport and the passenger ferries. Do we restrict the train movements? My opinion is that they stop the fu¢king dittering and decided what their going to do.

Totally agree.
I was following to the letter for most of it, but now i think they make up something new every day. They are not being honest at all with the public, or they keep flip flopping, so the public arent going to listen to them anymore.
Too much maky uppy sh!te coming from them.
Even the teachers in the schools are trying to get honest answers from the govt and they wont engage.

Hurrache · 18-09-2020 10:06am

ixoy wrote: »

And as to "whinging" - There are people's jobs affected directly.

I never said anything about those people worried about their business and jobs.

Hurrache · 18-09-2020 10:09am

HBC08 wrote: »

Youve got to counter balance that (which is a good point) against the fact it will drive more into uncontrolled envoirnments. One risk greatly outweights the other and thats from a health point of view,thats even before you consider the disastrous economic consequences.It makes no sense on any level.
Anyway I dont think itll be implemented.

I'll be surprised myself if it is implemented, but we'll know soon enough.

Difference between household gatherings and pubs I suppose is that pubs and other public places open a wider range of people up to potential exposure, with household gatherings it tends to be more localised, either geographically or in terms of circles of people.

is_that_so · 18-09-2020 10:11am

HBC08 wrote: »

Youve got to counter balance that (which is a good point) against the fact it will drive more into uncontrolled envoirnments. One risk greatly outweights the other and thats from a health point of view,thats even before you consider the disastrous economic consequences.It makes no sense on any level.
Anyway I dont think itll be implemented.

It may be somewhat uncontrolled but it's with very small numbers in that location and down to individual households.

Tenzor07 · 18-09-2020 10:32am

So does anyone know if The NPHET have published the figures to justify locking the city down?
As a % of population is the number of positive cases higher or lower than other county's in Ireland that they're not increasing lockdown in?

Is the track and trace system so bad that they want to shut down the city for a cluster in say Balbriggan, hardly seems right to shut down the entire county..

charlietheminxx · 18-09-2020 10:41am

Tenzor07 wrote: »

So does anyone know if The NPHET have published the figures to justify locking the city down?
As a % of population is the number of positive cases higher or lower than other county's in Ireland that they're not increasing lockdown in?

Is the track and trace system so bad that they want to shut down the city for a cluster in say Balbriggan, hardly seems right to shut down the entire county..

I'm nearly certain this has been gone over a few times in the thread.

Per 100,000 population, Dublin is doing significantly worse.

The only area of Dublin without big numbers is around Dun Laoghaire/Blackrock.

Here's a link to a Journal article on the numbers the other day:

https://www.thejournal.ie/data-shows-irelands-14-day-incidence-rate-now-46-8-dublin-double-that-at-89-1-5204304-Sep2020/

EDIT: Numbers have gone up since that article and apparently Dublin is now at 104 per 100,000.

weldoninhio · 18-09-2020 11:03am

quokula wrote: »

Not everyone is unemployed.

Yet. The government are working on that though.

JDD · 18-09-2020 11:29am

So, difference between what we can do today and what we can do tomorrow is:

- Can't have gatherings in our houses or gardens. One person is allowed over, that's it.

- Can't go to a cafe or food pub, unless they have seating outside. Can get takeaway though.

- Sports training/lessons for most people stopped (unless you're professional basically)

- Occasional office workers told to go back home.

- No care home visits.

- Museums, galleries, libraries close but all other shops stay open (?)

That's pretty much it, right? You can go wherever you want. I mean, you're "advised" not to leave the county but there isn't going to be any roadblocks or checks? Is that right?

What about public transport? Can you continue to take it even if you are not going to/from work or on an "essential" trip?

I honestly don't see the point of the Living With Covid plan at all. What an utter waste of time and money. Why didn't we just keep the Phases that were used from March to July? They were well understood by the public, and if we are going to be doing level 2.5 and level 3.5 what is the literal point of publishing a five level plan?

yourdeadwright · 18-09-2020 12:03pm

Leaving the County advised or law?
Will there be checks points

dmakc · 18-09-2020 12:15pm

yourdeadwright wrote: »

Leaving the County advised or law?
Will there be checks points

I'd imagine advised at best. There are too many loopholes for them to question anyone. Work / education / essential travel / I'm just coming back from dropping someone to the airport to go to Germany

Can't understand the mass hysteria around this point. Everything is within reason

expectationlost · 18-09-2020 12:30pm

https://twitter.com/President_MU/status/1306908075161518081 still find it hard to believe that they wouldn't ask you hard you been to a restaurant even a few days later if they were trying to find a big outbreak

plodder · 18-09-2020 12:47pm

expectationlost wrote: »

https://twitter.com/President_MU/status/1306908075161518081 still find it hard to believe that they wouldn't ask you hard you been to a restaurant even a few days later if they were trying to find a big outbreak

That tweet doesn't make any sense to me. Either hospitality is a major source or it isn't. The graph suggests that it isn't, but evidence from other countries suggests that it is. What other countries? Spain maybe, where there has been no efforts at social distancing in bars.

And as pointed out above, why are they only enquiring about the previous 48 hours? They could at least ask about previous days activities, even if the tracing can't be done that far back.

Mysteriouschic · 18-09-2020 2:18pm

Do the gyms close if we end up on level 3?

cherryghost · 18-09-2020 2:23pm

Mysteriouschic wrote: »

Do the gyms close if we end up on level 3?

Clondalkin Leisure centre and Sportsco in the city centre do not know what they need/have to do from Saturday onwards. I sent them messages yesterday and this morning to clarify for our 5-a-side stuff

ixoy · 18-09-2020 2:23pm

Mysteriouschic wrote: »

Do the gyms close if we end up on level 3?

No but Dublin is going for Level Pi so who knows.

JojoLoca · 18-09-2020 2:24pm

yourdeadwright wrote: »

Leaving the County advised or law?
Will there be checks points

Advise, same like with international travel. MM himself said you can go to another county but they are asking you not to.

Is it time for a Dublin lockdown?

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