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2020/21 NBA season + Olympics

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    #272
    Sweet.Science
    Registered Users Posts: 2,837 ✭✭✭Sweet.Science


    buyer95 wrote: »
    Do you think the Clippers are better this year? They've looked decent through 14 odd games, but I don't know if they have a better roster at all. Ibaka has looked good alright, but I don't think Batum is a good addition at this stage in his career at all. Still too early to extrapolate much I guess, we'll know more in a few weeks about what's real and what's not. They had a nice week there is no doubt, but put big scores on teams you'd expect them to beat. Playoff P still has a lot to prove on this team after last seasons collapse.

    Pat B isnt a good enough point for them to win a championship. What is the last team to win one without an elite level point guard ?


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    #273
    buyer95
    Registered Users Posts: 3,343 ✭✭✭buyer95


    Sweet.Science wrote: »
    Pat B isnt a good enough point for them to win a championship. What is the last team to win one without an elite level point guard ?

    Lakers in 10 I suppose, with Derek Fisher. You could argue those Heat teams with Chalmers starting at the point, but LeBron was so ball dominant it hardly counts. He obviously was the de facto point guard last year on the Lakers.


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    #274
    Sweet.Science
    Registered Users Posts: 2,837 ✭✭✭Sweet.Science


    buyer95 wrote: »
    Lakers in 10 I suppose, with Derek Fisher. You could argue those Heat teams with Chalmers starting at the point, but LeBron was so ball dominant it hardly counts. He obviously was the de facto point guard last year on the Lakers.

    Yeah 2010. Doesn't bode well . They ran out of ideas in the bubble. They gave the ball to KL and hoped for the best. (Should've said i'd be using LBJ as a point guard for the Lakers . He ran the offence)


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    #275
    tyivpc5qjx0f2b
    Closed Accounts Posts: 289 ✭✭tyivpc5qjx0f2b


    Sweet.Science wrote: »
    Pat B isnt a good enough point for them to win a championship. What is the last team to win one without an elite level point guard ?

    I’d say Lowry might be debatable as an elite PG in 18/19.
    Sure he won an all star and played well at various stages but he was hurt a bit and his production was down quite a bit too.

    I think it’s a fair point especially in light of Lou Williams being less productive, maybe they’ll make a move to bolster it.


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    #276
    Sweet.Science
    Registered Users Posts: 2,837 ✭✭✭Sweet.Science


    Livia Scarce Peppercorn wrote: »
    I’d say Lowry might be debatable as an elite PG in 18/19.
    Sure he won an all star and played well at various stages but he was hurt a bit and his production was down quite a bit too.

    I think it’s a fair point especially in light of Lou Williams being less productive, maybe they’ll make a move to bolster it.

    I think they have to . Fair point of Lowry but at least he was all star level . PB if nowhere near that level and being a very good defensive player as a point guard isn't near enough

    In fact if you look at the Clippers roster they should really be ok from a defensive point of view. It would more beneficial for them to have a point guard who is poor defensively but a great passer and solid to good 3 pt shooter . Not many available though in fairness


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    #277
    buyer95
    Registered Users Posts: 3,343 ✭✭✭buyer95


    Livia Scarce Peppercorn wrote: »
    I’d say Lowry might be debatable as an elite PG in 18/19.
    Sure he won an all star and played well at various stages but he was hurt a bit and his production was down quite a bit too.

    I think it’s a fair point especially in light of Lou Williams being less productive, maybe they’ll make a move to bolster it.

    If Lowry is debatable, than Jason Kidd* certainly is . He's a legend, and one of my favourite players ever. He had a huge role in that Mavs team winning it all, but he was nowhere near the Jason Kidd that led the Nets to NBA Finals in 03. He was still very good, and that playoff Jason Terry carried a lot of the load also, but it was very much done by committee.



    * (I actually met Kidd on my J1, he came in as a guest to golf at the club I was working at. He was happy out to chat away about basketball, at the time he was head coach of the Bucks and had Drew Gooden who was on that Mavs team with him and some other former player who I can't remember with him. When he copped the Irish accent he told me all about his Irish connections on his mothers side. He asked me if his Berkeley jersey was still hanging from the wall in Pappys (a pub J1s frequent ) and was delighted to hear it was still there!


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    #278
    tyivpc5qjx0f2b
    Closed Accounts Posts: 289 ✭✭tyivpc5qjx0f2b


    Sweet.Science wrote: »
    I think they have to . Fair point of Lowry but at least he was all star level . PB if nowhere near that level and being a very good defensive player as a point guard isn't near enough

    In fact if you look at the Clippers roster they should really be ok from a defensive point of view. It would more beneficial for them to have a point guard who is poor defensively but a great passer and solid to good 3 pt shooter . Not many available though in fairness

    I just realised when looking at Lowry that year something funny about Kawhi. We all know how incredibly gifted he is but between various injuries and so forth, he has only managed 4 all-star/All-NBA appearances so far.

    A list of active guys who have the same or more:

    Kemba Walker
    Millsap
    Love
    Rondo
    DeRozan
    Cousins
    Horford
    Lillard
    Butler
    Lowry
    Kyrie
    Klay
    Wall
    Aldridge
    Griffin
    Giannis

    The ones highlighted are those that drafted the same year or after. Also funny looking at this who you forget got drafted before him.

    Beyond that it's all the guys you'd expect to find ahead due to age/accomplishments but AD up on 7 having been drafted a year later but we see Kawhi as having been such a force for so long.


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    #279
    Carcharodon
    Registered Users Posts: 3,953 ✭✭✭Carcharodon


    Corvo wrote: »
    A terrible collapse in the closing minutes I thought from the Lakers. LeBron with two travelling violations, missed threes from LeBron. KCP and Kuzma, and an open jumper missed from the free throw line for Davis. A difficult last second shot from LeBron still could have sealed a win.

    Thought Draymond was excellent

    I think the Warriors deserve a bit more credit than they are getting for this result
    I can fully admit the Lakers threw let this one get away from them but some great competitiveness from the Warriors.
    As you pointed out Draymond was great, they wouldn’t have that comeback in them without his fight and drive
    I’d give credit to Oubre also who has struggled a lot, he put in a great shift, you got Curry with his usual clutch monster 3s down the stretch
    Wiggins missed 2 big FT towards the end but still played well
    I still think Lakers should have a smooth enough ride to finals, they got too much talent.


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    #280
    tyivpc5qjx0f2b
    Closed Accounts Posts: 289 ✭✭tyivpc5qjx0f2b


    Carcharodon wrote: »
    I think the Warriors deserve a bit more credit than they are getting for this result
    I can fully admit the Lakers threw let this one get away from them but some great competitiveness from the Warriors.
    As you pointed out Draymond was great, they wouldn’t have that comeback in them without his fight and drive
    I’d give credit to Oubre also who has struggled a lot, he put in a great shift, you got Curry with his usual clutch monster 3s down the stretch
    Wiggins missed 2 big FT towards the end but still played well
    I still think Lakers should have a smooth enough ride to finals, they got too much talent.

    I think the Wiggins trade is evolving in an interesting way, previously I’d have said that GSW probably lost because I fancied that the Twolves would be ok this year based on KAT & Russell’s previous few years to flirt with playoffs leaving you a Top 14ish pick.

    Now it looks like there is a chance the Top 3 protection may even kick in and the pick in unprotected in 2022 with Chet Holgrem up for grabs.

    Still I think I’d prefer a pick in the 4-7 range in 2021 to barter with rather than roll the dice as KAT might still make a leap.
    Also given GSW timeline, capitalising on a guaranteed pick in that range may be more appealing to suitors.

    I think given the Twolves play thus far, you probably won that trade.


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    #281
    ButtersSuki
    Registered Users Posts: 53,028 ✭✭✭✭ButtersSuki


    Cleveland, with 8 players, just put up 147 in a win against Brooklyn, with the big 3 all playing. And it’s not like they played badly - KD and Kyrie both put up 35+, and Harden had a 20+ point triple double. Not much D played in that game.


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    #282
    Corvo
    Registered Users Posts: 3,655 ✭✭✭Corvo


    KD playing 50 minutes is nuts


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    #283
    dwayneshintzy
    Registered Users Posts: 1,343 ✭✭✭dwayneshintzy


    ButtersSuki wrote: »
    Cleveland, with 8 players, just put up 147 in a win against Brooklyn, with the big 3 all playing. And it’s not like they played badly - KD and Kyrie both put up 35+, and Harden had a 20+ point triple double. Not much D played in that game.
    Nets aren't gonna win a title if Kyrie keeps bombing away like that. Plenty of opportunities when the game was still close in overtime, where he'd have the ball in transition and put up a brick instead of finding KD.


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    #284
    tyivpc5qjx0f2b
    Closed Accounts Posts: 289 ✭✭tyivpc5qjx0f2b


    Kyrie played well on his return which is pretty encouraging. The crux of it is that the Nets really shouldn’t be in the position where they need game winners vs the Cavs.
    It’ll take some time for those guys to figure it out.

    Not sure if they acquired the DPE for Dinwiddie yet but if it wasn’t used as part of the Harden trade they have a 5.7m exception to make a move. Not sure who’s available for that but it’s something.

    Embiid was impressive against the Celtics too, they still seem to be a piece away from being realistic title contenders but if the match ups fell their way, I could see them making a conference finals.


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    #285
    Sweet.Science
    Registered Users Posts: 2,837 ✭✭✭Sweet.Science


    There is whispers re Lonzo and the Clippers

    I dont hate it


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    #286
    tyivpc5qjx0f2b
    Closed Accounts Posts: 289 ✭✭tyivpc5qjx0f2b


    Sweet.Science wrote: »
    There is whispers re Lonzo and the Clippers

    I dont hate it

    Saw that too, I like it & I like Lonzo. I don’t know what’s up with him. Should be jacking up 7 3s a game, probably not but he’s working on his stroke so maybe some forgiveness there.

    Perhaps a little less emphasis on his offence and a little more on his defence & passing would be a better fit.

    My take away from the prospective package I saw of Lou Williams, 2nd round pick and 2 other rotation guys was that effectively the Pelicans really don’t rate him.

    Also really liked Ingram playing some point forward in the past, starting to get pretty close between the best players of that draft class


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    #287
    Morrison J
    Registered Users Posts: 3,852 ✭✭✭Morrison J


    Collin Sexton was really good again last night. Surely front runner for most improved player with Christian Wood. If he can get the Cavs into the playoffs he may even sneak it. 50/1 available on him which is a crazy price.

    Harden definitely still getting back to his best. Nets made a bit of a hole for themselves last night when Harden struggled playing with the bench at the end of the 1st. Lack of a bench really hurt them as Nash made no changes from the 4th to 2OT. Harden, Irving and Durant all gassed by the end.

    At the same time you've got 3 guys playing 50 mins. One who's began the season clearly out of shape, one who's back from a serious injury an an 18 month+ lay off and other other who missed the bulk of last season and was playing his first game back from a week+ lay off. You'd expect the fitness issues to sort themselves out more as the season progresses.


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    #288
    tyivpc5qjx0f2b
    Closed Accounts Posts: 289 ✭✭tyivpc5qjx0f2b


    Morrison J wrote: »
    Collin Sexton was really good again last night. Surely front runner for most improved player with Christian Wood. If he can get the Cavs into the playoffs he may even sneak it. 50/1 available on him which is a crazy price.

    He's interesting now that you mention it. You might get some better insight after next 3 games Nets, Celtics & Lakers.

    I think in order to win MIP, you need to get an All-Star but probably a spot up for grabs as a guard in the East.


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    #289
    Morrison J
    Registered Users Posts: 3,852 ✭✭✭Morrison J


    Livia Scarce Peppercorn wrote: »
    He's interesting now that you mention it. You might get some better insight after next 3 games Nets, Celtics & Lakers.

    I think in order to win MIP, you need to get an All-Star but probably a spot up for grabs as a guard in the East.

    Yeah the quality of opposition so far is a fair concern but still 20+ points in every game so far and last night was huge for him getting national attention. Barring an injury I can only see him gaining more momentum from here.

    Christian Wood the odds on fav would probably need to beat out one or two of Anthony Davis, Gobert, Jokic or Zion to get a place in the All Star team and it's hard to see the arguement for that given how bad that Rockets team is. East all star team wide open at guard at the moment in comparison.

    I think Sexton has a real chance and 50/1 is an absurd price really. Likely be able to cash out for a profit down the line anyway because his price is surely only going to fall.


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    #290
    Carcharodon
    Registered Users Posts: 3,953 ✭✭✭Carcharodon


    Iam pretty sure I just saw Draymond get a second technical and ejected for shouting at his own player.
    I know he can be annoying but come on refs, that’s shocking !!!
    Draymond has been great recently and you can see how much he pushes and coaches Wiseman, it’s great to see, hopefully that championship mentality rubs off on Wiseman.


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    #291
    LuckyLloyd
    Registered Users Posts: 36,157 ✭✭✭✭LuckyLloyd


    Nice statement win from the Lakers after the 4th quarter debacle the other night.


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    #292
    pjohnson
    Registered Users Posts: 23,246 ✭✭✭✭pjohnson


    LuckyLloyd wrote: »
    Nice statement win from the Lakers after the 4th quarter debacle the other night.

    First time in his career Davis has had 5 below 20 pt games in a row.


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    #293
    tyivpc5qjx0f2b
    Closed Accounts Posts: 289 ✭✭tyivpc5qjx0f2b


    pjohnson wrote: »
    First time in his career Davis has had 5 below 20 pt games in a row.

    I think they’re trying to reduce the load on him a little. Quite a few of his numbers are down but also are his mins.

    It’s his best year yet shooting both from 3 and inside the paint so some positives on that side.

    Not in line for any individual accolades but himself & LBJ know the value in using him sparingly, his production & general play scream injury prevention & playoffs.


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    #294
    chopperbyrne
    Registered Users Posts: 10,976 ✭✭✭✭chopperbyrne


    The Knicks on a roll.

    In classic Knicks form, they'll go on to lose 12 in a row now.


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    #295
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    Jesus, what a horrible colour clash in this Bulls vs. Hornets game.


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    #296
    tyivpc5qjx0f2b
    Closed Accounts Posts: 289 ✭✭tyivpc5qjx0f2b


    Another solid win for Sixers over the Celtics. As immense as Embiid was I thought Simmons was great especially in the 4th quarter.

    A quick look through the Celtics schedule thus far does not make for great reading. 3 losses on the bounce and 3 of their wins have come via margins of 2 pts or less.

    Also their pts differential has drifted into the minus too which is always a strong indicator of how seedings will fall and currently based on that they'd be 7th in the East.

    Obviously Tatum to come back but he was around for all those close wins but I guess Kemba wasn't.
    I've never felt the Kemba contract was a good decision and over the next 2 seasons as Tatum/Brown take a leap, I think they'll regret it.
    I think the Celtics struggles may become a discussion point as the season progresses.


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    #297
    jk23
    Closed Accounts Posts: 877 ✭✭✭jk23


    I feel like there is an inevitability to the Lakers winning this year, there is no team on the same wavelength chemistry wise. I can't see them even being tested in the first two rounds of the west....


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    #298
    Carcharodon
    Registered Users Posts: 3,953 ✭✭✭Carcharodon


    jk23 wrote: »
    I feel like there is an inevitability to the Lakers winning this year, there is no team on the same wavelength chemistry wise. I can't see them even being tested in the first two rounds of the west....

    I have the same feeling, championship teams like the Lakers know how to win and most importantly when to turn it up, They still have a few more gears to kick into I believe
    I like how Philly are playing but they really are just a wait and see in the playoffs, same with the Bucks

    I think the Nets have the same star power/quality if not more than the Lakers but they have a weak bench and will need time to jell

    I would love to see a sully healthy Lakers v fully healthy Nets finals


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    #299
    jk23
    Closed Accounts Posts: 877 ✭✭✭jk23


    Carcharodon wrote: »
    I have the same feeling, championship teams like the Lakers know how to win and most importantly when to turn it up, They still have a few more gears to kick into I believe
    I like how Philly are playing but they really are just a wait and see in the playoffs, same with the Bucks

    I think the Nets have the same star power/quality if not more than the Lakers but they have a weak bench and will need time to jell

    I would love to see a sully healthy Lakers v fully healthy Nets finals

    That would be some series. Brooklyn need a good centre and another defensive forward/guard before they would be serious contenders though


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    #300
    2smiggy
    Registered Users Posts: 19,997 ✭✭✭✭2smiggy


    jk23 wrote: »
    That would be some series. Brooklyn need a good centre and another defensive forward/guard before they would be serious contenders though

    someone like Jarrett Allen ? :P


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    #301
    ButtersSuki
    Registered Users Posts: 53,028 ✭✭✭✭ButtersSuki


    2smiggy wrote: »
    someone like Jarrett Allen ? :P

    Windhorst said last week that prior to the Harden trade the Nets did everything they could to trade Shamut for a 1st round pick so they could keep Allen but couldn't find any takers.

    It's the big "what if?" of this trade. He's clearly far superior to the ageing and declining Deandre Jordan.


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