"Book readers" - Season 8 Episode 3 "The Long Night" - Spoilers post 2 forward

Nody · 27-04-2019 7:17am #1

Note anything after this post may contain spoilers for the episode; do not read or open this thread until you have watched the whole episode!!!

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The "Next Episode" and any speculation on what may come in the future episodes should be put in the appropriate stickied Season 8 speculation thread; any funny pictures from the episode should be posted in this thread until Wednesday rather than the funny picture thread.

Note - No spoilers required for the current episode in this thread.

Riddle101 · 29-04-2019 3:45am

Well that was one hell of an episode. Between Avengers Endgame and the Battle of Winterfell, this weekend has been an emotional roller coaster ride. No complaints from me it was fantastic.

Dial Hard · 29-04-2019 4:05am

I'll get to sleep sometime around Thursday after that.

Hole. Eee. FCUK.

Savage Tyrant · 29-04-2019 4:40am

The best episode of television ever made. No doubt in my mind. If you disagree you can fvck off and get in the sea.
Epic. In every sense.

Lady Mormont though. 💔💔💔

Dave_The_Sheep · 29-04-2019 5:36am

Are you on drugs?

It's spectacular television, but it's bloody underwhelming story wise.

29-04-2019 5:38am

Night King dispatched with 3 episodes to go...The Hound survives...WE'RE GETTING CLEGANEBOWL!!!

Dave_The_Sheep · 29-04-2019 5:48am

I'm underwhelmed. That was mediocre at best. Visually spectacular, story and character wise, ****e.

The White Wolf · 29-04-2019 6:42am

All I could think of after that episode was, as the Hound put it once; who taught you that ****e? I've been merciful enough on Cogman and D&D but this episode hammered it home to me that the ideas ran dry a long time ago.

Daith · 29-04-2019 6:47am

Rollercoaster but I felt very underwhelmed after.

razorblunt · 29-04-2019 7:06am

Got up at 3 to watch it, couldn't get back to sleep so now I'm at work!

What an episode. One of the best I've ever seen.

Firstly the music was something else.

I was nervous from the get go, it was incredibly well done.

Where to start with it though?

The charge of the Dothraki, the extinguishing of the swords one by one, Mormont and Ghost surviving the first wave. I loved the vunerability of the characters, Edd, Jaime, Brienne, POD, Jorah all standing their ground but you could see the fear. Brilliantly Theon was the only one who looked assured and calm.

I love all the call backs from the dagger used in the attempt on Bran's life to it saving him, "what do we say?" and the same location where Arya got the dagger being the end of the Night King.

I loved the darkness too, the night is dark and full of terrors as they say.

I have a few small gripes, ice dragon should have been left die originally or set ablaze by Daenarys.
I like Sam fronting up but I think once he brokedown and curled up that should have been the end of him.

House Mormont though, they might be small but they are brave.

Valar Morgulis!

Mr. Incognito · 29-04-2019 7:13am

I loved the last two weeks,

That was rubbish. Crap. I feel ive been conned for 7 years.

1. Ever major character survives with magical plot armour.

2. The dothraki are wiped out in seconds but Jamie of the left handed survives with Brienne and Pod.

3. Jon Snow is literally invincible.

4. The night king took 20 mins to Kill Bran.

5. Ayra manages to ninja her way to the night king.

6. The editing. Ffs. I enjoyed the music around the season 7 finale re the wildfire. It didnt work there. Stabbing to Strings. No thanks.

I defended this show against the filler episode idiot comments. The crowd got their blood but that was a ridiculous cartoon.

Ill have to rewatch it for any redeeming features but what a let down.

20 Times 20 Times · 29-04-2019 7:15am

Bran sent the crows to Danys other allies , Darios etc

razorblunt · 29-04-2019 7:22am

Mr. Incognito wrote: »

I loved the last two weeks,

That was rubbish. Crap. I feel ive been conned for 7 years.

1. Ever major character survives with magical plot armour.

2. The dothraki are wiped out in seconds but Jamie of the left handed survives with Brienne and Pod.

3. Jon Snow is literally invincible.

4. The night king took 20 mins to Kill Bran.

5. Ayra manages to ninja her way to the night king.

6. The editing. Ffs. I enjoyed the music around the season 7 finale re the wildfire. It didnt work there. Stabbing to Strings. No thanks.

I defended this show against the filler episode idiot comments. The crowd got their blood but that was a ridiculous cartoon.

Ill have to rewatch it for any redeeming features but what a let down.

1. Fair point, may have had more scope. Could have thrown Sam and Pod in with zero effect.

2. The Dothraki are a swarming cavalry, that was always going to happen that way, they were unlikely to be disciplined like the Unsullied.

3. They were going well until they walked him into the respawn area!

4. TV sins going to TV sin

5. All her training led her to do just that

6. I have no complaints

awec · 29-04-2019 7:48am

Theon's death really just felt like a death for the sake of it, while other characters inexplicably survive.

Who did we lose? Dondarrion, both Mormonts, Edd?

Why did Melisandre die?

Production wise that was excellent IMO, great TV.

Story wise it was alright for me, not amazing, not bad either. Felt a little bit clichéd in parts. Arya just seemed to come out of nowhere at the end. White Walkers spent the episode just standing about until they died.

Daith · 29-04-2019 8:23am

Some rambling thoughts

The initial scene of the the fire wielding Dothraki charging then darkness was cool.

I expected Ghost to do something more, protect Dany at the last second?

The crypt setup was fine but the plot armour was strong.

Jon vs Undead Dragon did feel very video gamey

Arya was fine but she went from sneaking about for what felt like hours to master sneak at the end.

I prefer the intrigue of Kings Landing so think that's going to be more effective for deaths.

LastLagoon · 29-04-2019 8:25am

Yeah not great. What was the point of building up The NK and white walkers for all those years for it to be ended like that by a character who has had nothing to do with the NK story all these years? (A character who had one of the worst major character arcs -Braavos /faceless men) I see they did throw in some lame foreshadowing last season to make themselves look clever but really it was a letdown story wise.
It’s like Star Wars/a marvel movie now , ridiculous plot armor on the characters the masses love , Dondarrion and the night watch lad are not major characters to kill off , neither were the 2 Mormonts or Theon either tbh.

this is not the Game of Thrones that dragged me in years ago

razorblunt · 29-04-2019 8:25am

White Walkers have a "group" of undead they control don't they? So if you kill one you could potentially obliterate thousands, deliberately held back by the NK?

Melisandre was, presumably kept alive until her task is done, similar to what she said about Beric.

I'd like to know if Arya actually snuck into the Deadwood or threw on a WW face.

Daith · 29-04-2019 8:30am

razorblunt wrote: »

I'd like to know if Arya actually snuck into the Deadwood or threw on a WW face.

I think it would have worked great if a wight jumped at the NK and he looked confused. Maybe thinking it was Bran before Arya takes her wight face off.

The rest of the Walkers did nothing. I was expecting them to take out the Winterfell Generals (Brienne, Beric, etc)

bnt · 29-04-2019 8:35am

awec wrote: »

Why did Melisandre die?

She should have died many years before, it was only her magic keeping her alive for this long. With her job done, she reverted to her real old lady form and died.

Kunkka · 29-04-2019 8:36am

I thought that was one of the best TV episodes I have ever seen when I finished.

The tension throughout was insane, as you just didn’t know who would die. The music for the last 10-15 minutes was great.

I understand a few people’s frustration as we’ve been building up to the NK battle for so long and it’s one battle, but it was an epic battle imo.

Clegane bowl is on!

29-04-2019 8:44am

Daith wrote: »

Some rambling thoughts

The initial scene of the the fire wielding Dothraki charging then darkness was cool.

I expected Ghost to do something more, protect Dany at the last second?

The crypt setup was fine but the plot armour was strong.

Jon vs Undead Dragon did feel very video gamey

Arya was fine but she went from sneaking about for what felt like hours to master sneak at the end.

I prefer the intrigue of the Kings Landing so think that's going to be more effective for deaths.

I see complaints that more main characters did not die in this episode. I just don't see the point in building up a character like Dany, Jon or Jaime for years and investing in their arcs...to just have them whimper out as they are overcome by a horde of nameless wights on the battlefield. The deaths of major characters in the past have served the story on a significant level, but death-by-wights would have been a bit arbitrary and just 'we need to kill this character cause it's nearly the end'.

Sure...maybe the plot armour was at times a little too strong in this episode, but I didn't want to see death just for the sake of death. Even Theon's death felt a bit forced, and that was with his death actually serving his arc/story of redemption in Winterfell.

....................................

I am very impressed overall by this episode and had a blast watching it, but do have criticisms, like - That was it the Night King and the Whitewalkers? I would have liked to at least hear a few words from the NK, or see him in 1 v 1 combat with Jon or a human...but in the end he was just evil for the sake of it and he was dispatched by a prison shanking from Arya. No problem with Arya being the one to do it, just I feel a little underwhelmed by the NK and the Whitewalkers after years of a good build-up.

I wasn't expecting some mad theory to come to fruition in the show like Bran = NK, but some more substance would have been nice.

PIORUN · 29-04-2019 8:49am

not sure how to feel about it really...the Battle wasn't a patch on Hardhome or Battle of the Bastards ....the night King has been built up for years and now he's kiled so easily ( sort of) with 3 episodes to go...it was clear as day that someone was goingto kill the NK as the were overwelmed. Also what was Bran doing to whole time with his white eyes, warging into a crow?!

razorblunt · 29-04-2019 8:54am

Daith wrote: »

I think it would have worked great if a wight jumped at the NK and he looked confused. Maybe thinking it was Bran before Arya takes her wight face off.

The rest of the Walkers did nothing. I was expecting them to take out the Winterfell Generals (Brienne, Beric, etc)

What is the threat of the WW though? In the past its just their swords (and that weird strength) they had, Valyrian Steel and Dragonglass would have done them in, Mormont, The Hound, Beric, Brienne would all have fancied their chances and if they simply walked it they could have been stabbed by any grunt with Dragonglass and lose the hundres/thousands of the undead under their control.

They definitely could have done something better with Arya for sure, though I've read that in the background when the NK is going for his sword one of the WW looks behind him momentarily as if he's heard something.

Liam O · 29-04-2019 8:56am

Great TV and rivetting in the moment but let down in hindsight by some really silly decisions.

Having Jon and Dany surrounded by hundreds of undead and living to tell the tale could have been done so much better considering they both had dragons. Jon especially should have been completely wrecked within seconds when the NK lifted everyone.

Nothing on the NK's motivations bar him wanting to end humanity for some unknown reason(maybe this was previously explained but I don't remember).

I do think the character centric nature of the previous episodes really helped but there was a ridiculous amount of plot armour and while I can accept that the trained fighters would be better equipped to survive, the fact Sam did and Lyanna Mormont killed a giant before she did (why wasn't she in the crypts?), kind of made me struggle slightly with the suspension of disbelief.

While watching I was blown away and thought it was great, it could be another where reflection isn't kind to it however...

29-04-2019 9:01am

razorblunt wrote: »

What is the threat of the WW though? In the past its just their swords (and that weird strength) they had, Valyrian Steel and Dragonglass would have done them in, Mormont, The Hound, Beric, Brienne would all have fancied their chances and if they simply walked it they could have been stabbed by any grunt with Dragonglass and lose the hundres/thousands of the undead under their control.

They definitely could have done something better with Arya for sure, though I've read that in the background when the NK is going for his sword one of the WW looks behind him momentarily as if he's heard something.

I actually seen that myself watching the episode. It wasn't in the background, it was a close-up of a WW in the midst of the tension. At the time I thought 'Right, someone is gonna run in here for the save...but Jon is busy on the battlefield so who?'

I've no problem with Arya or her stealth - She was on home turf in Winterfell, we even saw her sneak up on Jon in the Godswood in the broad daylight in a recent episode, we've seen her train to be stealthy over the years, all of that.

My problem is with the lack of substance to the NK and the Whitewalkers. Even some conversation between Bran and the NK before Arya makes the save would have helped, or anything deeper than 'NK was evil just cause'.

Baggly · 29-04-2019 9:01am

Enjoyed that. The battle scenes being punctuated by silence was a nice touch.

Delighted with the Arya scenes. The fear when she is inside the castle sneaking around and being chased. The final blow after it seemed the NK would just snap her neck. Good stuff (Im a total Arya fanboy though).

Deaths were a bit underwhelming. Beric; meh, Theon (his arc was completed with the death), Jorah; meh it was his second chance since Sam cured him anyway, EVERY OTHER SOLDIER of major or minor note; meh, Lady Mormont; took out a giant, liked the juxtaposition - not much else she was going to do. One of the dragons (i think, right?); yeah fair enough, one of them was bound to die. Did anyone else of note die (im probably forgetting one).

Episode was a bit weak for not killing off some of the main characters.

Dothraki charge was excellent. The darkness and sense of chaos was excellent.

Didnt get to see the WW fighting - bit of a let down.

I saw all this; it was a good episode.

Mad to think the Winter is Coming arc is essentially closed now and its all about the battle for the throne (alone). That rhymes and you know it rhymes. Admit it.

Cersei to win; calling it now. North / Vale / Dany's lads / everyone but Cersei is fooked now.

Daith · 29-04-2019 9:03am

Deleted User wrote: »

I see complaints that more main characters did not die in this episode. I just don't see the point in building up a character like Dany, Jon or Jaime for years and investing in their arcs...to just have them whimper out as they are overcome by a horde of nameless wights on the battlefield. The deaths of major characters in the past have served the story on a significant level, but death-by-wights would have been a bit arbitrary and just 'we need to kill this character cause it's nearly the end'.

Exactly this. Even the Sand Snakes locked in the Kings Landing dungeon with the poison, etc, felt more emotional than Edd getting killed.

awec · 29-04-2019 9:08am

Was the Night King motivation ever explained in the show or the books? I can’t remember.

Baggly · 29-04-2019 9:11am

awec wrote: »

Was the Night King motivation ever explained in the show or the books? I can’t remember.

Im thinking there is a Bran tie in and we may still find out.

Cant see the 1 flashback of the NK being created being all we find out about his past.

fitz · 29-04-2019 9:14am

Thoroughly enjoyed it, a few niggles aside:

Music took me out of it a couple of times towards the end...Ramin Djawadi re-used some compositional techniques that are core to his Westworld themes, and it started to sound like music from that show.

Dragon fight was a little tough to follow.

Dany sitting around after saving Jon was ridiculous. Take off again, you dope.

They totally copped out on the main character deaths, but I'm kinda ok with that. This episode was never going to give them a lot of time to focus on any one person. I'm expecting plenty more deaths before the end, and hopefully the remaining three episodes will give them a chance to give those send offs more attention than they would have got here.

Baggly · 29-04-2019 9:19am

fitz wrote: »

Music took me out of it a couple of times towards the end...Ramin Djawadi re-used some compositional techniques that are core to his Westworld themes, and it started to sound like music from that show.

Hah bang on - thought the same when watching!

razorblunt · 29-04-2019 9:21am

Liam O wrote: »

I do think the character centric nature of the previous episodes really helped but there was a ridiculous amount of plot armour and while I can accept that the trained fighters would be better equipped to survive, the fact Sam did and Lyanna Mormont killed a giant before she did (why wasn't she in the crypts?), kind of made me struggle slightly with the suspension of disbelief.

She answered that herself in the previous episode when Jorah advised her to go down.
Sam should really have been done away with when Jon saw him crying in a ball, he even left him to go after Bran and Sam was swarmed, no idea how they'll explain he survived unless they just conveniently forget.

29-04-2019 9:21am

awec wrote: »

Was the Night King motivation ever explained in the show or the books? I can’t remember.

The WWs are barely mentioned in the books and a Night King hasn't been mentioned.

fitz · 29-04-2019 9:25am

Pter wrote: »

Hah bang on - thought the same when watching!

He has previous in drawing too much attention to the music... I thought the same about the music in the season 6 finale in the lead up to the sept getting wildfired.

Baggly · 29-04-2019 9:29am

fitz wrote: »

He has previous in drawing too much attention to the music... I thought the same about the music in the season 6 finale in the lead up to the sept getting wildfired.

Well id have to disagree with you there, but only because that particular song is one of my favourite pieces. I listen to it in work if im zoned in on a project. That probably says something about me, given the music was originally set to a mass murder.

Mr Velo · 29-04-2019 9:33am

Official episode name was "The Long Night" not Battle of Winterfell

bnt · 29-04-2019 9:33am

Deleted User wrote: »

I see complaints that more main characters did not die in this episode. I just don't see the point in building up a character like Dany, Jon or Jaime for years and investing in their arcs...to just have them whimper out as they are overcome by a horde of nameless wights on the battlefield. The deaths of major characters in the past have served the story on a significant level, but death-by-wights would have been a bit arbitrary and just 'we need to kill this character cause it's nearly the end'.

Well, do we know that everyone survived? I just watched the end again, and the next episode preview, and there was one face I did not see anywhere:

Samwell Tarly

.

5star02707 · 29-04-2019 9:34am

NOT TODAY!!!!

Gahh that line from Melissandre on Season 3 when she met Arya:

brown eyes, blue eyes, green eyes!

Makes sense now! Also SAME SPOT where Arya received the dagger + Arya sneaking up on Jon!

fitz · 29-04-2019 9:35am

Pter wrote: »

Well id have to disagree with you there, but only because that particular song is one of my favourite pieces. I listen to it in work if im zoned in on a project. That probably says something about me, given the music was originally set to a mass murder.

I've no problem with the piece itself, I just felt at the time it was too outside the canon he'd established for the score of the show, and it jarred me out of the scene.

awec · 29-04-2019 9:41am

Pter wrote: »

Im thinking there is a Bran tie in and we may still find out.

Cant see the 1 flashback of the NK being created being all we find out about his past.

Hopefully. He was a mysterious character, it would be a bit frustrating if we don't get any back story whatsoever, other than knowing he was created by the children of the forest.

Like why is he so intent on killing the one eyed raven?

BoJack Horseman · 29-04-2019 9:41am

bnt wrote: »

Well, do we know that everyone survived? I just watched the end again, and the next episode preview, and there was one face I did not see anywhere:
Samwell Tarly
.

He's there.

Visible in the trailer in a brief shot behind Danny, both carrying a torch

ERG89 · 29-04-2019 9:48am

I'm avoiding reading any posts as I'm currently halfway through watching this but it's shot in such darkness and fog I feel like I cant see half of what's happening. The snappy cuts between the action doesn't help either

LastLagoon · 29-04-2019 9:51am

Waiting for Someone to come out and say that the White walkers were a climate change allegory and Arya being the one to kill them shows that it’s young people that will solve it. LAAAAAMMMMMMEE

EagererBeaver · 29-04-2019 10:04am

Thoroughly enjoyed it whilst being massively let down at the same time.

Wight dragon at the end who came back, was that Viserion (who I presumed was "killed" in the 2 on 1 dragon fight) or a wight Rhaegal (who may or may not have been "killed" in said dragon fight)?

bnt · 29-04-2019 10:07am

BoJack Horseman wrote: »

He's there.

Visible in the trailer in a brief shot behind Danny, both carrying a torch

You have to pause the video to actually see anything, but OK. I wasn't sure about Tormund, but he's in the same shot at far left.

Mr. Incognito · 29-04-2019 10:09am

Okay.

So I can put some more coherent thoughts as to why I didnt like that. I will try to put the criticisms in chronological order.

1. Game of Thrones is character driven and no character is safe. That was the most enjoyable part of the show. You just knew that no one was safe and it added to the tension. Ned Stark. Robb Stark. Stannis. Jon Snow. Tywin Lannister. Jamie's right hand. The Hound. The Mountain. Oberyn Martell. etc. I really really enjoyed the Scene in Episode 2 as a consequence where a lot of people I expected to be imminently dead were sitting around before a battle, Man I thought, this is going to be so powerful on a rewatch when all these characters die next week.

2. ENOURMOUS inconsistencies. Hello. I'm the Dorthraki horde. 50,000 Screamers. But we've lived our life like a candle in the wind. Chaaaaaaaaaaaaaarge. *Snuff*
Hello. We are 100,000 Dead Army. We have broken in Winterfell. Yipee. We have killed EVERYONE except the 5 main characters. Sam- NO fighting skills. Alive. Check. The Onion Knight- Not a shread of combat ability. Alive- Check. Sir Brienne and Pod. On the field- survival check.

3. Sir Friend Zone. Sole Survivor of the Dothraki Horde attack. Teleports back to Winterfell ahead of the dead. Teleports into Winterfell ahead of the dead minus one horse. Teleports back over the wall. Over the 100,000 Dead to Dani to protect her from the horde who suddenly decide to obey the rules of Chivilery and attack one at a time.

4. Speaking of Chivilery. Reek, aka Theon the Peon completes his redemption character arc which no-one gives a **** about by playing matador with the Knight King. Oh look I'm out of arrows and the dead are running back and forth like duck hunt. Lets have a chat with Bran and chaaaaaarge. *Snuff*

5. Arya. I'm on the wall. Oh no. The wall is overfun and I cannot swing my broomstick. I guess I'll head inside and play the last of us. Sneak level increased to 56. I'n being chased by 50 dead but I am rescued by the knight brought back 7 times to save me so I can play Super Mario with the knight king.

6. I'm a dragon. Oh. I am also a dragon. Nice to meet you. Lets play in the Clouds and the dark. WTF is happening. Its so dark. Oh wait the night king has fallen off. Oh look dragon fire doesnt burn him. Oh look at that cheeky smile.

7. Hi, I'm Jon Snow. I'm BRILLIANT at hide and seek. Exit Dragon. Chase night king. Raises the dead- 50,000 Dothraki. 20,000 unsullied. Okay lads, one at a time. Oh my gf has started the barbacue. Great Sir Friend zone can I borrow your teleporter to somehow get past all the dead into Winterfell. Oh Look a dragon. Fire. HIDE, SEEK. Dodgeball chamption 2019.

The production was fantastic. The scene was set. Until it got more and more and more and more ridiculous.

I can suspend disbelief in a show that has dragons ffs. but that was an hour and a half cartoon that basically pissed away the 5 books and the last 7 seasons.

The Battle of the Bastards was the most realistic depiction of battle I have ever seen on a screen.

That was the most ridiculous. It was beyond bad.

unjedilike · 29-04-2019 10:09am

Why wouldn't they start with the dragons?

CiaranW · 29-04-2019 10:11am

Loved it, can't wait for the rest of the episodes.

Daenerys' army must be completely wiped out now.
How many Dothraki were there?
Drogo had 40k Dothraki screamers but it looked like there was about a quarter of that, could the rest all be in Essos still as Dothraki don't like sea travel?
Maybe make a return and save everyone from Cersei, someone mentioned Bran sending the crows for allies to help them, could be an interesting theory.

The Hound getting his courage back after seeing Arya in danger was brilliant, I am looking forward to watching this episode again tonight.

29-04-2019 10:15am

unjedilike wrote: »

Why wouldn't they start with the dragons?

Why would they lay out their forces like they're about to siege Winterfell?

"Where would you like the trenches, sir?"
"Behind us."
"And the trebuchets?"
"In front of us, of course."

razorblunt · 29-04-2019 10:20am

EagererBeaver wrote: »

Thoroughly enjoyed it whilst being massively let down at the same time.

Wight dragon at the end who came back, was that Viserion (who I presumed was "killed" in the 2 on 1 dragon fight) or a wight Rhaegal (who may or may not have been "killed" in said dragon fight)?

Viserion I think. He seemed to have his throat torn out in the fight.
Obviously can't be "killed" unless he's burned or stabbed so kept battling on.

Nody · 29-04-2019 10:24am

awec wrote: »

Theon's death really just felt like a death for the sake of it, while other characters inexplicably survive.

Who did we lose? Dondarrion, both Mormonts, Edd?

Melisandre
Theon Greyjoy
Lyanna Mormont
Ser Jorah Mormont
Lord Beric Dondarrion
Edd Tollet
Night King
Viserion

I agree they went way to light on the character killing as well.

Why did Melisandre die?

Her mission was complete; the night king was defeated so she decided to end her life by removing her necklace (which had the red gem that sustained her). Worth remembering that she was very old and had a laundry list of bad things she'd done so was tired of life I guess and/or her god told her it was her time.

"Book readers" - Season 8 Episode 3 "The Long Night" - Spoilers post 2 forward

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