The Tipperary GAA (Club and Intercounty) Thread

20-06-2017 7:07pm

I accept that we had quite a few injuries but I still feel we needed to assert ourselves on the game a bit more.

After paying 25 euro for a ticket plus the cost of petrol to go down and see them get trounced against Galway I felt this was our wake-up call and we'd have a real point to prove against Cork but we had no one willing to take the game by the scruff of the neck on the day. Our midfield was very poor and our half forward line couldn't win an argument

Mokuba · 20-06-2017 7:17pm

Deleted User wrote: »

I accept that we had quite a few injuries but I still feel we needed to assert ourselves on the game a bit more.

After paying 25 euro for a ticket plus the cost of petrol to go down and see them get trounced against Galway I felt this was our wake-up call and we'd have a real point to prove against Cork but we had no one willing to take the game by the scruff of the neck on the day. Our midfield was very poor and our half forward line couldn't win an argument

Curran looked so far off the pace it was incredible - although you can say that for others too.

Breen did very well, with Bonner and Forde coming back that's a decent spine restored.

20-06-2017 7:27pm

danganabu wrote: »

Missed 4 weeks training in the lead up with a broken thumb, has always been very slow to come to the boil, but get him into Croker in August and he is a different animal.

To be honest Seamie looked one of our better forwards on the day considering. He setup the goal with a dream pass into John McGrath. Our inside forward line done ok. Our half forwards clocked up alot of scores but mostly from secondary possession. It's hard to say Mark Ellis had a bad game for example. He caught quite a bit on the day. Midfield were stink. Cooper had an unreal game

digzy · 20-06-2017 10:13pm

[Deleted User] wrote: »

our half forward line couldn't win an argument

I wonder how they'd get on against the sheep

20-06-2017 11:53pm

digzy wrote: »

I wonder how they'd get on against the sheep

They had better watch their use of certain terms which might be dubbed as nonsense cliches by El Geniuso. We wouldnt want that

robbiezero · 21-06-2017 8:06am

danganabu wrote: »

To a lesser extent the mid to late 90's were the same, yes some fine individual players, great excitement and novelty but some of the teams that won AI's in that era were very very ordinary in the greater scheme of things. It was probably the first time in the history of the game that the big three were all decidedly weak at the same time, and in hindsight it was probably the best thing that ever happened the game.

Yes, it was to an extent, but the difference for me is that during the mid nineties, there was at least some form to the teams that won. Cork and Clare had done very little for the 3 years preceding 2013 and have done even less in the 3 years after it.

Ipse dixit · 21-06-2017 10:43pm

Mokuba wrote: »

Curran looked so far off the pace it was incredible - although you can say that for others too.

Breen did very well, with Bonner and Forde coming back that's a decent spine restored.

I still think that if we allow teams space in our half back line we'll be cleaned out for points. I'd worry about facing Cork again as they have the forward line to expose our lack of pace.

It's hard to point out exactly what has happened this team in such a short space of time. It's obviously not a lack of talent but there isn't the same intensity to this team so far. The Galway loss and Cork response showed that there isn't the same standard being set in the team this year.

We've the hurlers there to go out and win another AI but we seem to have fallen back into the same habits that crept in after the 2010 win. There have been a lot of strange rumours from the camp this year to say the least.

evolving tipperary · 22-06-2017 2:04am

They'll be up against it:

The Tipperary under-21 team: Brian Hogan (Lorrha-Dorrha), Paul Maher (Kilsheelan-Kilcash), Emmett Moloney (Drom & Inch), Kevin Hassett (Drom & Inch), Robert Byrne (Portroe), Brian McGrath (Loughmore-Castleiney), Enda Heffernan (Clonoulty-Rossmore), Billy McCarthy (Thurles Sarsfields), Ger Browne (Knockavilla Kickhams), Andrew Coffey (Nenagh ?ire ?g, captain), Stephen Quirke (Moyle Rovers), Mark Kehoe (Kilsheelan-Kilcash), Lyndon Fairbrother (JK Bracken's), David Gleeson (Ballinahinch) & Willie Connors (Kiladangan).

22-06-2017 2:27am

evolving tipperary wrote: »

They'll be up against it:

The Tipperary under-21 team: Brian Hogan (Lorrha-Dorrha), Paul Maher (Kilsheelan-Kilcash), Emmett Moloney (Drom & Inch), Kevin Hassett (Drom & Inch), Robert Byrne (Portroe), Brian McGrath (Loughmore-Castleiney), Enda Heffernan (Clonoulty-Rossmore), Billy McCarthy (Thurles Sarsfields), Ger Browne (Knockavilla Kickhams), Andrew Coffey (Nenagh ?ire ?g, captain), Stephen Quirke (Moyle Rovers), Mark Kehoe (Kilsheelan-Kilcash), Lyndon Fairbrother (JK Bracken's), David Gleeson (Ballinahinch) & Willie Connors (Kiladangan).

Id have Tommy Nolan in for Connors who hasnt exactly blazed a trail at this level. Good footballer tbf to him though. Perhaps the dual issue is a factor?
Granted Tommy has struggled for form himself of late but he had a cracking game in Clonmel against Cork a few weeks ago.
Billy McCarthy should be considered for our seniors to start next day. He is going really really well. Ger Browne was also outstanding the last night. Great to see Paul Maher back and Kehoe looks a talent. We could have two Kilsheelan men and Mickey Whelan from the Davins lining out for the senior team in future and perhaps Colin English from Father Sheehy's also although he is a good footballer too.
Then add Dylan Walsh, Ciaran Barrett and Kieran o'Dwyer we had quite a few South men on that minor panel.

Tough task against a very talented Limerick side who went to the minor final in 14 and just couldnt find their range on the day but actually had loads of the ball. Theyve blooded some great players too such as Cian Lynch and Kyle Hayes

OAOB · 22-06-2017 8:48am

Ipse dixit wrote: »

I still think that if we allow teams space in our half back line we'll be cleaned out for points. I'd worry about facing Cork again as they have the forward line to expose our lack of pace.

It's hard to point out exactly what has happened this team in such a short space of time. It's obviously not a lack of talent but there isn't the same intensity to this team so far. The Galway loss and Cork response showed that there isn't the same standard being set in the team this year.

We've the hurlers there to go out and win another AI but we seem to have fallen back into the same habits that crept in after the 2010 win. There have been a lot of strange rumours from the camp this year to say the least.

Have to agree with all of this. We tend to look at the forwards as the problem area but we've been conceding huge scores against the top teams and this goes back as far as last years semi-final with Galway.
A quick look at the scores tallies against us since then;

Galway 2-18
KK 2-20
Dub 1-08
Waterfoed 0-15
Clare 0-21
KK 3-14
Cork 0-26
Offaly 3-13
Wex 1-19
Galway 3-21
Cork 2-27

We're conceding high scores because of our open style of hurling. It makes for very entertaining matches but puts a lot of pressure on the forwards to run up a high score. Barrett is our best man marker but as he's now off the panel i think other teams will relish the freedom they'll get against us. Cork, Galway and Clare are the 3 teams with fast forwards that would match up very well against us

22-06-2017 8:03pm

Insipid from the u21s. A poorly coached and disjointed side :mad:

Mantis Toboggan · 22-06-2017 8:04pm

10 points down at half time against Limerick in the under 21.

Not having a go but our lads playing both codes need to pick one or the other, being completely out hurled.

22-06-2017 8:34pm

Tyson Fury wrote: »

10 points down at half time against Limerick in the under 21.

Not having a go but our lads playing both codes need to pick one or the other, being completely out hurled.

We can't use that as an excuse sure we're out of that since March. Management is piss poor. Liam Cahill had same issue in 15 yet got more or less the same crop to an all Ireland final and won it in 16. Maher didn't even put a marker on Aussie Gleeson last year and looks like he still thinks marking up is overrated

GoldFour4 · 22-06-2017 9:01pm

Yeah can't be blaming the lads who played a bit of football, we were out of that very quickly.

Joe_ Public · 22-06-2017 9:03pm

What was the damage in the end?

22-06-2017 9:23pm

Joe_ Public wrote: »

What was the damage in the end?

2-24 - 19...

11 points. An abysmal display. Cahill needs to be promoted to u21 manager next season. That management was a total shambles

Joe_ Public · 22-06-2017 10:02pm

Seems to me that over the last 7-8 years we're consistently producing better minor teams in Munster but then the likes of Limerick and Clare are overtaking us at 21 level. I don't know why that should be so. I dont believe the dual issue is the answer to it - why shouldn't it take effect at minor level too? Do they have better coaching networks than we do? They shouldn't have, but I think it could be part of it. I agree about Cahill, he's earned his spurs and needs to make the step up.

22-06-2017 10:08pm

Joe_ Public wrote: »

Seems to me that over the last 7-8 years we're consistently producing better minor teams in Munster but then the likes of Limerick and Clare are overtaking us at 21 level. I don't know why that should be so. I dont believe the dual issue is the answer to it - why shouldn't it take effect at minor level too? Do they have better coaching networks than we do? They shouldn't have, but I think it could be part of it. I agree about Cahill, he's earned his spurs and needs to make the step up.

Our last three under 21 managers
Ken Hogan from 10-13
Connolly from 14-15
Maher from 16 to present.

Hogan was the best of them and he's not even that hectic being honest. I think there is a serious dearth of coaching talent within the county. The management should step down immediately for that performance. i can take losing but that was disjointed and quite frankly embarrassing and this is after Waterford trounced us in the Munster final last year. Marking non existant. He turned a good crop into indisciplined rubbish with bizarre tactics. Billy McCarthy is a senior panellist and he couldnt trap a bag of sand tonight.

Mantis Toboggan · 22-06-2017 10:14pm

Wasn't the panel only named a few weeks ago?

That's no way to prepare.

Just so far off the pace tonight. I know they're a young side but it was their hurling skills which was letting them down more than anything.

In fairness to Cahill he won't pick players who don't fully commit to the hurling and maybe that's the way to go.

22-06-2017 10:19pm

Tyson Fury wrote: »

Wasn't the panel only named a few weeks ago?

That's no way to prepare.

Just so far off the pace tonight. I know they're a young side but it was their hurling skills which was letting them down more than anything.

In fairness to Cahill he won't pick players who don't fully commit to the hurling and maybe that's the way to go.

Quirke is only back from injury. He has been with the senior hurlers this year though. Willie Connors hasnt played with the footballers for quite a while. The dual player isnt an issue on this occasion, the management is just not up to it. Ill agree it has been an issue in the past but those lads have hurled plenty this year. They looked as if they were only introduced to each other at the whistle though

Cahills minors trounced them in a challenge a few weeks back. That says it all.

Joe_ Public · 22-06-2017 10:20pm

Deleted User wrote: »

Our last three under 21 managers
Ken Hogan from 10-13
Connolly from 14-15
Maher from 16 to present.

Hogan was the best of them and he's not even that hectic being honest. I think there is a serious dearth of coaching talent within the county. The management should step down immediately for that performance. i can take losing but that was disjointed and quite frankly embarrassing and this is after Waterford trounced us in the Munster final last year. Marking non existant. He turned a good crop into indisciplined rubbish with bizarre tactics. Billy McCarthy is a senior panellist and he couldnt trap a bag of sand tonight.

Being kind to him, Ken didn't cut it as a senior manager and though he did deliver an All Ireland 21, and fair play to him, that was a special group of players. I honestly cant see how they didn't win at least another Munster in that period.

Questions should be asked alright. You can write it off and just say we don't have a great crop right now, but that doesn't explain the nature of the defeats. I thought we would have a crop of hungry young coaches coming through by now, but they seem to be thin enough on the ground.

22-06-2017 10:22pm

Joe_ Public wrote: »

Being kind to him, Ken didn't cut it as a senior manager and though he did deliver an All Ireland 21, and fair play to him, that was a special group of players. I honestly cant see how they didn't win at least another Munster in that period.

Questions should be asked alright. You can write it off and just say we don't have a great crop right now, but that doesn't explain the nature of the defeats. I thought we would have a crop of hungry young coaches coming through by now, but they seem to be thin enough on the ground.

Thats why it galls me to hear Cahill being criticised by his own. He's a treasure. We're blessed to have him

Joe_ Public · 22-06-2017 10:32pm

Deleted User wrote: »

Thats why it galls me to hear Cahill being criticised by his own. He's a treasure. We're blessed to have him

I disagree with Cahill on the dual issue thing, but would otherwise never criticise him. He has shown great mettle in his coaching career so far and can see a bright future ahead of him if he wants it.

Do more players from Limerick and Clare play college hurling than Tipp? Just strikes me as a possible reason why they might be improving a bit quicker after minor. Limerick has at least 3 college teams playing a high level of hurling, I think it's got to be a help to them. They also have a guy like Paul Kinnerk adding his expertise, an All Ireland winner who's only barely past 30. I wonder where are the Kinnerk equivalents in Tipperary?

The Lost Sheep · 22-06-2017 10:58pm

Tyson Fury wrote: »

Wasn't the panel only named a few weeks ago?

That's no way to prepare.

Just so far off the pace tonight. I know they're a young side but it was their hurling skills which was letting them down more than anything.

In fairness to Cahill he won't pick players who don't fully commit to the hurling and maybe that's the way to go.

wasnt it only named publically a few weeks ago so what relevance does that have?
But do we really need to have players commit to both this early in their career? Why not simply better manage the work players are doing and work around that?

Joe_ Public wrote: »

I disagree with Cahill on the dual issue thing, but would otherwise never criticise him. He has shown great mettle in his coaching career so far and can see a bright future ahead of him if he wants it.

Do more players from Limerick and Clare play college hurling than Tipp? Just strikes me as a possible reason why they might be improving a bit quicker after minor. Limerick has at least 3 college teams playing a high level of hurling, I think it's got to be a help to them. They also have a guy like Paul Kinnerk adding his expertise, an All Ireland winner who's only barely past 30. I wonder where are the Kinnerk equivalents in Tipperary?

I dont think Limerick or Clare would have more. Limerick having third level institutions and Tipp not really, i know theres LIT in Thurles etc, but that wont reall be an issue considering in every 3rd level side in Limerick there will always be plenty of tipp players involved as limerick is where majority of tipp people go as well.

qhe0i9zvfgdou8 · 22-06-2017 11:21pm

Joe_ Public wrote:

I wonder where are the Kinnerk equivalents in Tipperary?

Still celebrating the 2010 all Ireland win

Joe_ Public · 23-06-2017 1:19am

The Lost Sheep wrote: »

I dont think Limerick or Clare would have more. Limerick having third level institutions and Tipp not really, i know theres LIT in Thurles etc, but that wont reall be an issue considering in every 3rd level side in Limerick there will always be plenty of tipp players involved as limerick is where majority of tipp people go as well.

Yeah I'd say your right. I was probably clutching at straws trying to explain something that is beyond my comprehension. The other thing is, Limerick and Clare keep producing these fine under-age teams but dont follow it through at senior level (2013 apart obviously!). Winning isn't everything, but you just want to see fight in lads, even when things aren't going their way.

23-06-2017 1:30am

Joe_ Public wrote: »

Yeah I'd say your right. I was probably clutching at straws trying to explain something that is beyond my comprehension. The other thing is, Limerick and Clare keep producing these fine under-age teams but dont follow it through at senior level (2013 apart obviously!). Winning isn't everything, but you just want to see fight in lads, even when things aren't going their way.

You'd want to be careful using those cliches now. Some people have difficulty in comprehending what you meant by them and throw a little tantrum

You'll then have to dedicate the next hour or two to fleshing out your point (aka banging your head against a brick wall)

Spirit of 67 · 23-06-2017 1:35am

Tyson Fury wrote: »

10 points down at half time against Limerick in the under 21.

Not having a go but our lads playing both codes need to pick one or the other, being completely out hurled.

Ah ffs :rolleyes:!

Mantis Toboggan · 23-06-2017 9:28am

The Lost Sheep wrote: »

But do we really need to have players commit to both this early in their career? Why not simply better manage the work players are doing and work around that?

Well we don't have to but you can bet that the Kilkenny and Limerick players are fully committed to one and that's what we're competing against.

CorkFenian · 23-06-2017 10:44am

Second best from the first whistle, outgunned in every department. There was more to appreciate from the Westmeath players the night before. I have a lot of time for Maher as coach, genuinely surprised at how Tipp capitulated-one AI minor win and 2 AI appearances in the past few years, can Tipp underage hurling really be as bad as last night, it was woeful unfortunately

Can't blame dual players for any of that , its just a lazy excuse....

The Tipperary GAA (Club and Intercounty) Thread

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