Anyone in Ireland that can speak Irish only?

stevek93 · 13-08-2020 6:31pm #1

This is common in other countries that don’t speak English as a primary language obviously but do we have the same here? One who can’t speak English but who can speak Irish or one who can speak Irish better than English?

punisher5112 · 13-08-2020 6:31pm

Places such as Connemara would be a good place to check....

legrand · 13-08-2020 6:32pm

stevek93 wrote: »

This is common in other countries that don’t speak English as a primary language obviously but do we have the same here? One who can’t speak English but who can speak Irish or one who can speak Irish better than English?

Níl

happyoutscan · 13-08-2020 6:33pm

Used deliver to Rosmuc Connemara in the 90s, Id say there may have been a few then. Those have probably passed on by now.

kennypowers · 13-08-2020 6:34pm

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Se%C3%A1n_%C3%93_hEinir%C3%AD#:~:text=Se%C3%A1n%20%C3%93%20hEinir%C3%AD%20(Se%C3%A1n%20%C3%93,last%20known%20monolingual%20Irish%20speaker.

RandomViewer · 13-08-2020 6:36pm

Tory island

L1011 · 13-08-2020 6:41pm

RandomViewer wrote: »

Tory island

None there.

There are plenty of areas where there are native Irish speakers still obviously; and some of the older people with non-fluent English.

I met an early 20s native Welsh speaker with non-fluent English when in Caernarfon a year or so ago; don't think there's any native Irish speakers of that age without fluent English.

Eggs For Dinner · 13-08-2020 7:19pm

legrand wrote: »

Níl

What's Nil's surname?

RandomViewer · 13-08-2020 7:45pm

Eggs For Dinner wrote: »

What's Nil's surname?

Nil Fhios Agam

riclad · 13-08-2020 7:51pm

99 per cent of people here speak english fluently,
apart from tg4 all tv and radio is in english .
IF you wanted to have your child learn only irish you,d have to be like those cults in the usa,where children do not go to school and are educated at home.
Why would you do that to a child.
I presume some children in the gaeltacht grow up speaking irish and english.
In practice irish people speak english in everday life, everyone can speak it, some people are fluent in irish .
try going one day speaking only irish outside the gaeltacht, you,d have a hard time doing business .
in my experience once people leave school they can only understand a few words of irish and a basic few phrases.
i,m excluding people from the gaeltacht area .

RandomViewer · 13-08-2020 7:54pm

riclad wrote: »

99 per cent of people here speak english fluently,
apart from tg4 all tv and radio is in english .
IF you wanted to have your child learn only irish you,d have to be like those cults in the usa,where children do not go to school and are educated at home.
Why would you do that to a child.
I presume some children in the gaeltacht grow up speaking irish and english.

Some speak Irish ,English and Polish fluently, shows how poor or teaching methods are

friendlyfun · 13-08-2020 8:06pm

Honestly doubt there would be any monolingual Irish speakers left. I believe the last one died in 1998( Seán Ó hEinirí ) and there is an interview with him. I think if there were some left we would know about it as it would certainly be the subject of many studies, documentaries, books etc as was the life of Seán Ó hEinirí.

Miri5 · 13-08-2020 8:25pm

I was born and bred in the Connemara Gaeltacht. I know loads of children who have Irish as their first language and learn English when they start playschool/ primary. Nothing wrong with that, and most definitely nothing like an American cult. They are bilingual and often as not find other languages easier to pick up.

up for anything · 13-08-2020 8:27pm

RandomViewer wrote: »

Nil Fhios Agam

I laughed.

Upforthematch · 13-08-2020 8:31pm

Miri5 wrote: »

I was born and bred in the Connemara Gaeltacht. I know loads of children who have Irish as their first language and learn English when they start playschool/ primary. Nothing wrong with that, and most definitely nothing like an American cult. They are bilingual and often as not find other languages easier to pick up.

So there are plenty of 3 year olds then who speak irish only

legrand · 13-08-2020 8:31pm

riclad wrote: »

99 per cent of people here speak english fluently,
apart from tg4 all tv and radio is in english .
IF you wanted to have your child learn only irish you,d have to be like those cults in the usa,where children do not go to school and are educated at home.
Why would you do that to a child.
I presume some children in the gaeltacht grow up speaking irish and english.
In practice irish people speak english in everday life, everyone can speak it, some people are fluent in irish .
try going one day speaking only irish outside the gaeltacht, you,d have a hard time doing business .
in my experience once people leave school they can only understand a few words of irish and a basic few phrases.
i,m excluding people from the gaeltacht area .

Pretty sure OP was not looking for a lecture on the merits or otherwise of speaking Irish!

Conall Cernach · 13-08-2020 9:41pm

A man I know from Connemara went to England in the 60s with a neighbour who could not speak any English then. I'd say there are no adult native Irish speakers who cannot speak English nowadays.

JohnnyFlash · 13-08-2020 10:21pm

I'm from the Connemara Gaeltacht, and would have grown up knowing monolingual Irish speakers. They had started to die off by the early 90's. My own father was able to speak English, but simply chose not to do so. He didn't say much in Irish either to be honest, being a famously taciturn man.

One of the best things about speaking Irish with fellow native speakers is being able to relax, have the banter, and converse in my native tongue without having the conversation dominated by the topic of the language itself, or how this beautiful language gets mixed up with the awful type of small-minded nationalism you tend to find with the Neo Gaeilgeoir types. Think beard, glasses, leather patches on their corduroy jacket, corduroy pants; no sense of humour, a fetish for Pearse, and the personality of a fúcking rock.

I do like the pop-up Gaeltacht events, but they were always in danger of being overran by the zealots mentioned above who wanted to dish out a dose of boring nationalism using their UCD/Stillorgan Dual Carriageway Irish. Those lads would bore the tits off you. Flann O'Brien was a great man for making fun of their sort.

What's also annoying is having to explain the "usefulness" of Irish to naive, narrow-minded, monolingual bootlickers. You don't find me asking them banal questions about how useful their love of Japanese cartoons and computer games is.

I do miss the idea and the reality of Irish monolingualism. More for what it stood for, rather that what it meant to me as a young man.

AdrianBalboa · 13-08-2020 10:35pm

Issues I have with Irish is its use of religious terminology in their greetings, and the genderized surnames.

My children go to a Gaelscoil and I told them to use “hello” instead of Dia Dhuit and to use whichever version of their surname they are more comfortable with instead of following the outdated Ó/Ní format for boys and girls respectively.

I also told them to just ignore whatever their teacher says about the “rules” and pronunciation and all that rubbish and just talk to each other. They’re never going to learn how to speak if they’re learning grammar!

AdrianBalboa · 13-08-2020 10:38pm

“Ní” means “no” which stigmatises girls.

Upforthematch · 13-08-2020 10:44pm

AdrianBalboa wrote: »

“Ní” means “no” which stigmatises girls.

Huh?

That's a new one anyway.

As if a word can't have two (or in the case of ní, three) totally separate meanings without someone feeling stigmatised :rolleyes:

Sgt Hartman · 13-08-2020 10:47pm

You would find quite a few people living in Dublin's North Inner City flats that are barely literate in English. Some of the accents there are so bad that you'd think that they were speaking a pidgin dialect of English.

AdrianBalboa · 13-08-2020 10:49pm

Upforthematch wrote: »

Huh?

That's a new one anyway.

As if a word can't have two (or in the case of ní, three) totally separate meanings without someone feeling stigmatised :rolleyes:

It’s very simple. “Ní maith” means “don’t like.”

Ó Mannion - “From Mannion”

Ní Mannion - “Not (really) Mannion”

The official story is that “Ní” is just the female version in this case but I find it difficult to believe they simply took a negative word to use it as a positive prefix, referring to women, without thinking about it.

Upforthematch · 13-08-2020 10:52pm

AdrianBalboa wrote: »

It’s very simple. “Ní maith” means “don’t like.”

Ó Mannion - “From Mannion”

Ní Mannion - “Not (really) Mannion”

The official story is that “Ní” is just the female version in this case but I find it difficult to believe they simply took a negative word to use it as a positive prefix, referring to women, without thinking about it.

Ní comes from iníon (daughter of) - I really hope you're just spoofing and not believing what you have just written.

The third meaning for ní is wash (from verb nigh) - are you going to link this to girls being unclean now or some other seafóid?

Edit: Of course I forgot the fourth meaning ní means 'thing' as well - girls are only objects as well perhaps?

TenLeftFingers · 13-08-2020 10:56pm

I can't remember which social media platform I was told this on but the same subject came up since it's claimed that the last monolingual Irish speaker passed away some years ago. Anyway, a few were claimed to know of such people in their area.

chosen1 · 13-08-2020 11:41pm

AdrianBalboa wrote: »

Issues I have with Irish is its use of religious terminology in their greetings, and the genderized surnames.

My children go to a Gaelscoil and I told them to use “hello” instead of Dia Dhuit and to use whichever version of their surname they are more comfortable with instead of following the outdated Ó/Ní format for boys and girls respectively.

I also told them to just ignore whatever their teacher says about the “rules” and pronunciation and all that rubbish and just talk to each other. They’re never going to learn how to speak if they’re learning grammar!

Hope you are equally as opposed to using "goodbye" as a farewell statement since it's a contraction of "God be with you". Words and phrases all have roots. Some maybe outdated but every speaker gets on with it. I'm sure they're are other examples from other languages also and no one gets uppity about it.

Don't ever go to Iceland either and ask their surname. You would get very offended.

KevRossi · 14-08-2020 1:08am

The last monoglot Irish speaker in Co. Dublin was recorded in the 1831 census in Glenasmole (past Bohernabreena). Her family descendants still live there.

WAW · 14-08-2020 5:46am

AdrianBalboa wrote: »

It’s very simple. “Ní maith” means “don’t like.”

Ó Mannion - “From Mannion”

Ní Mannion - “Not (really) Mannion”

The official story is that “Ní” is just the female version in this case but I find it difficult to believe they simply took a negative word to use it as a positive prefix, referring to women, without thinking about it.

Are you for real? Ní comes from iníon. Loads of languages use male and female signifiers. It's very common.
As for the greetings. Surely the intent is the main thing. The intention of wishing a person well.
If you're looking to excise any traces of deities and gender from the language, you'll have a pretty limited vocabulary or cultural understanding and poorer for it IMO.

Penfailed · 14-08-2020 6:03am

AdrianBalboa wrote: »

My children go to a Gaelscoil and I told them to use “hello” instead of Dia Dhuit

So you're taking God out of the Irish version but using the Devil's English version. HELL-Oh.

Oranage2 · 14-08-2020 6:45am

I worked for a company and there had to so many Irish speakers, a guy from the gaeltacht said he didn't learn English till he was like 10

Tokyo · 14-08-2020 7:44am

Fadó fadó, I worked tarring the roads on the Aran Islands when I was a teenager (mid 90's), and a few of the local council labourers there could speak Irish, but not a lick of English. It surprised me too because up until then, any Irish speaker I'd met could also speak English. Chatting to them about it while we were working, they told me they never had the need to learn - older generation (possibly early 60's at the time), furthest they'd go would be to the local pub and back home, never really had any need to go to the mainland. Good chance what is left of that generation has died out now though.

Greta_Funberg · 14-08-2020 8:01am

There's a doc following the Galway Gaelic team in 1998 on their Summer before winning the All Ireland. On coming back home, they stop off with Sam in some small houses in Conamara and some of the people there had no Irish.

I must dig that one out again. Sure it's on Youtube.

Ficheall · 14-08-2020 10:38am

I studied maths through Irish (probably not a great idea, but that's beside the point) in first year of uni. The lecturer (lovely guy, passed away couple of years after) was Greek, and had come to Ireland initially having learned Irish, so had to learn English when he got here.

hullaballoo · 14-08-2020 5:56pm

JohnnyFlash wrote: »

I'm from the Connemara Gaeltacht, and would have grown up knowing monolingual Irish speakers. They had started to die off by the early 90's. My own father was able to speak English, but simply chose not to do so. He didn't say much in Irish either to be honest, being a famously taciturn man.

One of the best things about speaking Irish with fellow native speakers is being able to relax, have the banter, and converse in my native tongue without having the conversation dominated by the topic of the language itself, or how this beautiful language gets mixed up with the awful type of small-minded nationalism you tend to find with the Neo Gaeilgeoir types. Think beard, glasses, leather patches on their corduroy jacket, corduroy pants; no sense of humour, a fetish for Pearse, and the personality of a fúcking rock.

I do like the pop-up Gaeltacht events, but they were always in danger of being overran by the zealots mentioned above who wanted to dish out a dose of boring nationalism using their UCD/Stillorgan Dual Carriageway Irish. Those lads would bore the tits off you. Flann O'Brien was a great man for making fun of their sort.

What's also annoying is having to explain the "usefulness" of Irish to naive, narrow-minded, monolingual bootlickers. You don't find me asking them banal questions about how useful their love of Japanese cartoons and computer games is.

I do miss the idea and the reality of Irish monolingualism. More for what it stood for, rather that what it meant to me as a young man.

I find this point of view interesting as it's a form of prejudice I will have to deal with in the near future that I wasn't aware of. Thanks for the insight into the rationale behind it.

I am a non-native Irish speaker and I learned my Irish on the Aran Islands as well as being lucky enough to have two very good Irish teachers - one in NS and one in Secondary.

Like you I also despise the nationalist undertones associated with the language and politicisation of it. I don't wear tweed or leather but I take it this is not the only marker in your mind of the kind of Irish speaker we both dislike.

I do speak Stillorgan Dual Carriageway Irish. At least I presume I do or that I would be pigeonholed by a native speaker as such. I also have a beard like most men. This would raise a flag for you clearly and you would presume I am one of the Padraig Pearse fantasists. The reality is I know near nothing about Pearse or any of the other rebels. I just don't really care.

My children will be going to a new Gaelscoil starting in the next couple of weeks and I gather some of the other parents, the teachers and the patrons of the school are native speakers. Could be wrong about that but if they are, I will on the basis of your above post ensure they know I am not a Shinner.

The conundrum will be if they are non-native speakers where it might suit me to let them believe I am a Shinner but I'll cross that bridge when I come to it.

flazio · 14-08-2020 6:00pm

It can and does happen that a Gaeltacht resident develops Alzheimer's and start to forget his or her English.

Edgware · 14-08-2020 6:08pm

AdrianBalboa wrote: »

Issues I have with Irish is its use of religious terminology in their greetings, and the genderized surnames.

My children go to a Gaelscoil and I told them to use “hello” instead of Dia Dhuit and to use whichever version of their surname they are more comfortable with instead of following the outdated Ó/Ní format for boys and girls respectively.

I also told them to just ignore whatever their teacher says about the “rules” and pronunciation and all that rubbish and just talk to each other. They’re never going to learn how to speak if they’re learning grammar![/quote

Why bother sending them to a Gaelscoil at all unless you are one of the snobs who use it
so that you can avoid the kids mixing with the "wrong "type/colour
If you are so intelligent you would realise that English has as many religion linked phrases as Irish

Ipso · 14-08-2020 6:15pm

AdrianBalboa wrote: »

“Ní” means “no” which stigmatises girls.

Well played.

EmmetSpiceland · 14-08-2020 6:29pm

hullaballoo wrote: »

The conundrum will be if they are non-native speakers where it might suit me to let them believe I am a Shinner but I'll cross that bridge when I come to it.

The Gaelscoileanna, in Dublin anyway, are mostly not populated with the kids of shinners. It’s just a way for people to keep their kids with “their own”, away from any people of colour or those with special needs.

Of course, they’ll mask this by saying they want their child to have an “advantage” when it comes to the leaving cert but that’s just window dressing.

Obviously, we gave them some thought regarding our kids but my partner has fluent Irish and I do ok so ours go to an Educate Together School that is more aligned with our own “values”. We speak to the kids in Irish at home to help them along.

hullaballoo · 14-08-2020 6:32pm

Edgware wrote: »

Why bother sending them to a Gaelscoil at all unless you are one of the snobs who use it
so that you can avoid the kids mixing with the "wrong "type/colour
If you are so intelligent you would realise that English has as many religion linked phrases as Irish

A lot of Gaelscoileanna have people from all kind of backgrounds. There will be a Piotr both of whose parents are Polish in my 5-year-olds class.

Admittedly, the Gaelscoil has been exclusionary for various reasons including a dictat from many that the students have to be fluent by 2 and a half. Then there's the fact that they were predominantly heavily religious (RCC) until probably quite recently.

But the one that my son is going to soon is co-educational and multi-denominational like the NS I went to. There is also no requirement for the kids to speak Irish prior to attending the particular school. Thankfully there are more and more of these in being, though not in huge numbers it has to be said.

hullaballoo · 14-08-2020 6:39pm

EmmetSpiceland wrote: »

The Gaelscoileanna, in Dublin anyway, are mostly not populated with the kids of shinners. It’s just a way for people to keep their kids with “their own”, away from any people of colour or those with special needs.

Of course, they’ll mask this by saying they want their child to have an “advantage” when it comes to the leaving cert but that’s just window dressing.

Obviously, we gave them some thought regarding our kids but my partner has fluent Irish and I do ok so ours go to an Educate Together School that is more aligned with our own “values”. We speak to the kids in Irish at home to help them along.

I think you're mostly right but as I said in my post above, there are now Gaelscoileanna with a much more rounded and less small-minded shinner or racist ethos.

I went to an Educate Together too and yes, I think the ethos is great and we would have liked to have sent our children to one but they are all oversubscribed. Even the one in that shithole, Bray (the one I went to.)

The co-educational non-religious (multi-/inter-denominational) ones are, hopefully, a bit different.

I will be on the Board of Management of my kids' one so certainly will be keeping a keen eye on that.

riclad · 14-08-2020 7:35pm

Whats the point in learning maths in irish, we all speak english,
its seems pointless.
i don,t think irish is a modern language in that it takes english word and changes them slightly,
imagine trying to learn computer programming in irish .
unless you are a teacher or work for tg4 it has no practical use after you
leave school.
I Think all independent schools are over subscribed since its a status symbol
to go to a non government school ,like driving a bmw car.
teens spend alot of time on social media tik tok ,etc on english language websites or apps .
Theres zero chance of most people speaking irish in everyday life outside schools .
I think the irish language was more popular in the 70,s or the 80,s
before the internet was invented .
And no one had smartphones .

Metric Tensor · 14-08-2020 8:02pm

Ficheall wrote: »

I studied maths through Irish (probably not a great idea, but that's beside the point) in first year of uni. The lecturer (lovely guy, passed away couple of years after) was Greek, and had come to Ireland initially having learned Irish, so had to learn English when he got here.

Can only be Tony Christophides - a really nice guy!

Galwayguy35 · 14-08-2020 8:15pm

How did we lose the ability to speak our own language in the first place, the Brits invaded half the world but the native population kept their own language.

We didn't which is a mystery, how can you stop a people speaking their own language?

Spanish Eyes · 14-08-2020 8:17pm

It is really such a pity that Irish is not revered, and it never will be now apart from pockets here and there who are/have to be bilingual anyway.

The Gaelscoilleanna are just a means of keeping out the riff raff, end of. Doubt those who go there will speak Irish when out and about either.

And there is always the bonus for exams through Irish also.

Am very sceptical.

I love Irish, and can follow a lot of it on TG4 but often wonder why I bother.

Dr Turk Turkelton · 14-08-2020 8:26pm

Galwayguy35 wrote: »

How did we lose the ability to speak our own language in the first place, the Brits invaded half the world but the native population kept their own language.

We didn't which is a mystery, how can you stop a people speaking their own language?

Two words answer your question.

modh coinníollach

Gretas Gonna Get Ya! · 14-08-2020 8:29pm

Miri5 wrote: »

I was born and bred in the Connemara Gaeltacht. I know loads of children who have Irish as their first language and learn English when they start playschool/ primary. Nothing wrong with that, and most definitely nothing like an American cult. They are bilingual and often as not find other languages easier to pick up.

Yes, but English is their first language...

They may have learned Irish first, but English is essential on this island. I can get by just fine anywhere on this island with zero Irish (including Connemara) - but with zero English? No chance!

Duffy the Vampire Slayer · 14-08-2020 8:44pm

Gretas Gonna Get Ya! wrote: »

Yes, but English is their first language...

They may have learned Irish first, but English is essential on this island. I can get by just fine anywhere on this island with zero Irish (including Connemara) - but with zero English? No chance!

If they learned Irish first, and speak it with their family, then it is their first language. I'm not sure what way you would define first language.

Duffy the Vampire Slayer · 14-08-2020 8:46pm

Dr Turk Turkelton wrote: »

Two words answer your question.

modh coinníollach

English also has a conditional tense, as do all languages I am familiar with.

14-08-2020 8:48pm

Duffy the Vampire Slayer wrote: »

English also has a conditional tense, as do languages I am familiar with.

Its the essential.problem with teaching irish....too.much put into learning spelling/reading it,bogged down in tenses/verbs

When it was a main language,vast swades of population couldnt read or write it....its made to be spoken (and spoke quickly,hence why many forgieners struggle with irish language)

KK4SAM · 14-08-2020 8:50pm

Sea

Spanish Eyes · 14-08-2020 8:52pm

Ta shey Mahogany Gaspipes,

Anyone in Ireland that can speak Irish only?

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