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The Decline of Religion

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    #92
    Hotblack Desiato
    Registered Users Posts: 34,050 ✭✭✭✭Hotblack Desiato


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/110000125#Comment_110000125

    And now some twat has blown them up.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-62073675


    Fingal County Council are certainly not competent to be making decisions about the most important piece of infrastructure on the island. They need to stick to badly designed cycle lanes and deciding on whether Mrs Murphy can have her kitchen extension.



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    #93
    robindch
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 24,399 Mod ✭✭✭✭robindch


    On the plus side, there are an awful lot fewer suspects than there used to be.

    A record-low 20% of Americans now say the Bible is the literal word of God, down from 24% the last time the question was asked in 2017, and half of what it was at its high points in 1980 and 1984. Meanwhile, a new high of 29% say the Bible is a collection of "fables, legends, history and moral precepts recorded by man."

    https://news.gallup.com/poll/394262/fewer-bible-literal-word-god.aspx




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    #94
    Hotblack Desiato
    Registered Users Posts: 34,050 ✭✭✭✭Hotblack Desiato


    https://twitter.com/ryanburge/status/1549566510112264192?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1549566510112264192%7Ctwgr%5E50fa9c710316aad170cc4b721d1e54f46799e147%7Ctwcon%5Es1_&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.boards.ie%2Fdiscussion%2F2058244816%2Ffall-of-the-catholic-church%2Fp64

    "The emptying of the pews in one graph.

    Among those born in the early 1930s, 60% attend church weekly. 17% never attend. 

    Among those born in the early 1950s, 32% attend weekly. 29% never attend. 

    Among those born in the early 1990s, 18% attend weekly. 42% never attend."

    Fingal County Council are certainly not competent to be making decisions about the most important piece of infrastructure on the island. They need to stick to badly designed cycle lanes and deciding on whether Mrs Murphy can have her kitchen extension.



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    #95
    Hotblack Desiato
    Registered Users Posts: 34,050 ✭✭✭✭Hotblack Desiato


    Found the article the graph came from. Can't remember where I first saw it, so apologies if it was elsewhere on A&A 😮

    https://www.salon.com/2022/07/29/the-backlash-to-christianity-are-now-panicked--but-they-only-have-themselves-to/


    Fingal County Council are certainly not competent to be making decisions about the most important piece of infrastructure on the island. They need to stick to badly designed cycle lanes and deciding on whether Mrs Murphy can have her kitchen extension.



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    #96
    Igotadose
    Registered Users Posts: 13,026 ✭✭✭✭Igotadose


    Pew Research bidding farewell to Xtianity as the religion of the majority of the population in the US by 2070. Saddens me to know I won't be around to see it, but still. Maybe there's ways to make it happen faster.


    https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/christianity-projected-to-lose-majority-status-among-americans-by-2070-pew-model-projects/ar-AA11Q8Q9?ocid=msedgntp&pc=EE04&cvid=5d2dd9f148c240498f845a7a90018deb




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    #97
    Hotblack Desiato
    Registered Users Posts: 34,050 ✭✭✭✭Hotblack Desiato


    As we've seen in Ireland with religious practice (if not necessarily census box-ticking) it does't decline linearly. Once it's no longer the norm for parents to force it on their kids then it declines exponentially.

    Fingal County Council are certainly not competent to be making decisions about the most important piece of infrastructure on the island. They need to stick to badly designed cycle lanes and deciding on whether Mrs Murphy can have her kitchen extension.



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    #98
    smacl
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 15,722 Mod ✭✭✭✭smacl


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119621145#Comment_119621145

    Very much what the Pew report that underlies the MSN piece says, https://www.pewresearch.org/religion/wp-content/uploads/sites/7/2022/09/US-Religious-Projections_FOR-PRODUCTION-9.13.22.pdf Makes for a very interesting read in terms of analysing the factors leading to religious decline, e.g. tougher anti-immigration measures for South America versus Asia leading to fewer Christian immigrants is one I wouldn't have though of.



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    #99
    wench
    Registered Users Posts: 1,630 ✭✭✭wench


    Some interesting results from the latest UK census. England and Wales are no longer majority christian countries.

    Christians (all denominations) down to 46.2%, no religion up to 37.2%

    https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2022/nov/29/leicester-and-birmingham-are-uk-first-minority-majority-cities-census-reveals




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    #100
    Hotblack Desiato
    Registered Users Posts: 34,050 ✭✭✭✭Hotblack Desiato


    image_2022-11-30_163643741.png

    I suspect all that some will want to talk about is not the many millions who have changed from a christian affiliation to no religion, but the comparatively small increase in those affiliated to islam.

    The chief executive of Humanists UK, Andrew Copson, said: “One of the most striking things about these census results is how at odds the population is from the state itself. No state in Europe has such a religious setup as we do in terms of law and public policy, while at the same time having such a non-religious population.”

    Oh, I don't know about that. We don't have an established church here but we never 'needed' one. We have an explicitly catholic/christian constitution, religious oaths for state offices, 95% of primary schools controlled by a church. In reality as opposed to census box-ticking, are we really that more religious than the UK in practice? Sure according to the census we're nearly all enthusiastic and proficient Irish speakers too...

    Post edited by Hotblack Desiato on

    Fingal County Council are certainly not competent to be making decisions about the most important piece of infrastructure on the island. They need to stick to badly designed cycle lanes and deciding on whether Mrs Murphy can have her kitchen extension.



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    #101
    Peregrinus
    Registered Users Posts: 26,120 ✭✭✭✭Peregrinus


    The percentage increase in Islam (and Hinduism) is partly attributable to immigration, but in fact is mainly attributable to a higher propensity in young Muslim/Hindu adults to maintain their "inherited" affiliation; they are less likely than their Christian counterparts to become no-religionists when they enter adulthood.

    This doesn't necessarily indicate any greater degree of religious faith or religious practice on their part; it could be that their religious identity is bound up with their ethnic identity, and their ethnic identity is a minority one and sometimes a marginalised one. So they maintain their religious identification as an act of individual and communal self-assertion. And of course it could be a bit of both.

    Also worth noting that the percentage decline in those expressing a Christian identity is matched by a percentage decline in those expressing an "assertive" non-religious identity — atheist, agnostic, humanist. Both sides seem to be losing ground to the no-religionists. And that might suggest that the underlying trend here is not so much active rejection of religion but more indifference to the question.

    Finally, there's always interesting things to be spotted at the margins. The fastest-growing religious identity in the UK is shamanism, up from 650 adherents ten years ago to 8,000 today. In the scale of things that's a tiny number, but the huge percentage increase may nevertheless be significant; shamanism is a religious identity associated with the madder Q-Anon conspiracy theorists (and, as you'll realise , the madder Q-Anon adherents are very mad indeed). It's in that environment that people are most likely to encounter shamanism.

    Finally finally, it should be mentioned that these figures are for England and Wales only. The NI census figures on religion were released some months ago; the Scottish census was delayed until March 2022 because of the pandemic and results aren't expected until next year.



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    #102
    Hotblack Desiato
    Registered Users Posts: 34,050 ✭✭✭✭Hotblack Desiato


    Interesting article prompted by the census results in the Guardian:

    https://www.theguardian.com/world/2022/dec/02/i-couldnt-pretend-any-more-readers-on-why-they-left-the-christian-faith

    A Protestant, a Catholic and a Mormon walk into a bar... 😁

    Fingal County Council are certainly not competent to be making decisions about the most important piece of infrastructure on the island. They need to stick to badly designed cycle lanes and deciding on whether Mrs Murphy can have her kitchen extension.



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    #103
    robindch
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 24,399 Mod ✭✭✭✭robindch


    Religious decline still being staved off in Abu Dhabi, where the state has built what it calls an 'Abrahamic Family House', with buildings for islamic stuff, christian stuff and jewish stuff:

    https://edition.cnn.com/style/article/uae-abrahamic-family-house-david-adjaye-intl/index.html

    https://www.adjaye.com/work/the-abrahamic-family-house/



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    #104
    Hotblack Desiato
    Registered Users Posts: 34,050 ✭✭✭✭Hotblack Desiato


    Edit: forgot there was a dedicated thread for the census, I'll post in there

    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120657219#Comment_120657219


    Fingal County Council are certainly not competent to be making decisions about the most important piece of infrastructure on the island. They need to stick to badly designed cycle lanes and deciding on whether Mrs Murphy can have her kitchen extension.



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    #105
    Hotblack Desiato
    Registered Users Posts: 34,050 ✭✭✭✭Hotblack Desiato


    https://www.irishtimes.com/ireland/social-affairs/2023/08/15/grouped-and-postponed-funerals-to-become-more-common-due-to-growing-shortage-of-priests/

    I think they'll be OK though, after a certain generation passes not too many will be that fussed anymore about getting a catholic funeral.

    Fingal County Council are certainly not competent to be making decisions about the most important piece of infrastructure on the island. They need to stick to badly designed cycle lanes and deciding on whether Mrs Murphy can have her kitchen extension.



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    #106
    robindch
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 24,399 Mod ✭✭✭✭robindch


    Eternal verities will last until the end of 2024:

    https://www.thejournal.ie/religious-publiosher-veritas-to-begin-winding-down-6295340-Feb2024/




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    #107
    Hotblack Desiato
    Registered Users Posts: 34,050 ✭✭✭✭Hotblack Desiato


    So truth is not eternal after all?

    Veritas added that it has “experienced a significant and sustained business downturn in recent years” - probably even worse than its parent organisation, after all there are thousands of mass outlets if one feels inclined to pop in with only the barest of commitment but few book outlets - and the mass outlets haven't been doing too well atall atall.

    Veritas added that it is still in the process of determining options for the continued publication of titles that form part of the syllabus for many primary schools and that it is “confident a solution will be found”.  I can think of a rather good solution.

    Fingal County Council are certainly not competent to be making decisions about the most important piece of infrastructure on the island. They need to stick to badly designed cycle lanes and deciding on whether Mrs Murphy can have her kitchen extension.



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    #108
    Hotblack Desiato
    Registered Users Posts: 34,050 ✭✭✭✭Hotblack Desiato


    https://www.irishtimes.com/business/2024/02/13/bishops-put-400000-into-last-minute-effort-to-rescue-veritas/

    Brave, or perhaps reckless, to lend a loss-making business 400k when it already owes you over 600k...

    I wonder who owns the shops. No mention of high/increasing rents in the article among the excuses, so presumaby either Veritas itself or some other RCC tentacle.

    Fingal County Council are certainly not competent to be making decisions about the most important piece of infrastructure on the island. They need to stick to badly designed cycle lanes and deciding on whether Mrs Murphy can have her kitchen extension.



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    #109
    corks finest
    Registered Users Posts: 8,636 ✭✭✭corks finest


    Good enough for me

    that book

    thou I concentrate on the gospels mostly



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    #110
    Hotblack Desiato
    Registered Users Posts: 34,050 ✭✭✭✭Hotblack Desiato


    eh?

    Fingal County Council are certainly not competent to be making decisions about the most important piece of infrastructure on the island. They need to stick to badly designed cycle lanes and deciding on whether Mrs Murphy can have her kitchen extension.



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    #111
    Hotblack Desiato
    Registered Users Posts: 34,050 ✭✭✭✭Hotblack Desiato


    Bad news for the dwindling number of priests in the West of Ireland, as another two promotion posts have been suppressed:

    https://www.irishtimes.com/ireland/2024/04/10/two-west-of-ireland-dioceses-lose-bishops-as-catholic-church-downsizes/

    Already happened that two were administered by one bishop (Galway and Clonfert) but there was no talk of eventual amalgamation at that time.

    Papal nuncio Archbishop Luis Mariano Montemayor said in Tuam this morning: “In due time, and following careful assessment and consultation, the present Dioceses of Tuam and Killala on the one hand, and Elphin and Achonry on the other, may be governed by one Bishop in each case, just as the Dioceses of Galway and Clonfert are today governed by one Bishop.

    “If this process evolves still further, the associated Dioceses may then merge fully under their Bishop, and, in this way, the six Dioceses in the Province of Tuam will eventually become three.”

    RCC currently has 26 dioceses, Church of Ireland is already down to 11.

    Fingal County Council are certainly not competent to be making decisions about the most important piece of infrastructure on the island. They need to stick to badly designed cycle lanes and deciding on whether Mrs Murphy can have her kitchen extension.



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    #112
    robindch
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 24,399 Mod ✭✭✭✭robindch


    RCC currently has 26 dioceses, Church of Ireland is already down to 11.

    Would save a lot of time and effort if the RCC and CofI merged as well.



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    #113
    Hotblack Desiato
    Registered Users Posts: 34,050 ✭✭✭✭Hotblack Desiato


    There'd have to be a lot of site closures and a redundancy programme 😁

    Fingal County Council are certainly not competent to be making decisions about the most important piece of infrastructure on the island. They need to stick to badly designed cycle lanes and deciding on whether Mrs Murphy can have her kitchen extension.



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    #114
    Peregrinus
    Registered Users Posts: 26,120 ✭✭✭✭Peregrinus


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122001870#Comment_122001870

    Mmm. As the number of priests is declining a lot faster than the number of bishoprics, promotion opportunities are, strictly speaking, still getting better, not worse. They're just not getting better as fast as they would do if these two dioceses were not being annexed to their larger neighbours in this way.

    The linked newspaper article is a little dramatic, describing this as "the most radical change in Irish Catholic Church structurs in 900 years". What we have here is pairs of dioceses sharing a common bishop, while the two dioceses continue to be separate dioceses, plus talk of possible mergers of the dioceses in the future. But well within the past 900 years we've had actual mergers of dioceses; Diocese of Annaghdown merged into Tuam in 1580; Diocese of Cashel and Diocese of Emly merged in 1718; Kildare and Leighlin merged in 1768; Kilmacduagh merged into Galway in 1883; etc.

    Fun fact: the Irish dioceses are of (secular) historical significance. As territorial divisions, they are much older than the counties, by many centuries. Their borders encode information about the social, economic, tribal and political facts of Ireland and of Gaelic society when they were formed.



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    #115
    Hotblack Desiato
    Registered Users Posts: 34,050 ✭✭✭✭Hotblack Desiato


    It's all starting to sound a bit desperate…

    https://www.irishtimes.com/ireland/social-affairs/2024/04/22/we-even-feel-the-lord-has-abandoned-us-catholic-archbishop-of-dublin-addresses-decline/

    Fingal County Council are certainly not competent to be making decisions about the most important piece of infrastructure on the island. They need to stick to badly designed cycle lanes and deciding on whether Mrs Murphy can have her kitchen extension.



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    #116
    ohnonotgmail
    Registered Users Posts: 40,184 ✭✭✭✭ohnonotgmail


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122050612#Comment_122050612

    Absolutely zero reflection on why they might be in the situation they are.



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    #117
    downtheroad
    Registered Users Posts: 2,799 ✭✭✭downtheroad


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122050612#Comment_122050612

    I thought the lord was everywhere?



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    #118
    robindch
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 24,399 Mod ✭✭✭✭robindch


    "We feel that we have lost our way. These are important parts of our journey"

    In a very real sense, I'd say getting lost is an "important" part of any journey, for a strange meaning of the word "important".



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    #119
    Odhinn
    Registered Users Posts: 8,017 ✭✭✭Odhinn


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122051196#Comment_122051196
    i-saw-that-jesus-christ-mens-t-shirt.jpg

    No escape at all, at all.



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    #120
    Hotblack Desiato
    Registered Users Posts: 34,050 ✭✭✭✭Hotblack Desiato


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122052961#Comment_122052961

    Wouldn't have been much of a story if Moses hadn't got lost…

    image.png

    Fingal County Council are certainly not competent to be making decisions about the most important piece of infrastructure on the island. They need to stick to badly designed cycle lanes and deciding on whether Mrs Murphy can have her kitchen extension.



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