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Can Trump be stopped?

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24

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    #32
    El_Duderino 09
    Registered Users Posts: 19,995 ✭✭✭✭El_Duderino 09


    Man with broke phone wrote: »
    Saudi Arabia are buying more weapons and you use that as a stick to beat Trump with. It really is a dog and pony show where you can post a link and a statement and people who want to believe you will with no question.

    You said he turned his back on the military industrial complex. The military industrial complex is booming under Trump.


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    #33
    BorneTobyWilde
    Registered Users Posts: 35,720 ✭✭✭✭BorneTobyWilde


    Trump lost because his cronies mega fans dirty cops got trigger happy, and because China released the plague on him. Lets see what Biden does when the next cop assassinates an unarmed black man on tape


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    #34
    Man with broke phone
    Registered Users Posts: 1,201 ✭✭✭Man with broke phone


    El_Duderino 09 wrote: »
    You said he turned his back on the military industrial complex. The military industrial complex is booming under Trump.

    Yes selling weapons to saudi arabia


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    #35
    Man with broke phone
    Registered Users Posts: 1,201 ✭✭✭Man with broke phone


    BorneTobyWilde wrote: »
    Trump lost because his cronies mega fans dirty cops got trigger happy, and because China released the plague on him. Lets see what Biden does when the next cop assassinates an unarmed black man on tape

    The vaccination is all but ready but Biden will take credit.


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    #36
    Girly Gal
    Registered Users Posts: 2,846 ✭✭✭Girly Gal


    Man with broke phone wrote: »
    The vaccination is all but ready but Buden will take credit.

    It's interesting that that announcement was left until after the election, also Trump was laughed at and ridiculed when he said the vaccine would be available soon,with the experts saying it was at least 18 months to 2 years away


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    #37
    Girly Gal
    Registered Users Posts: 2,846 ✭✭✭Girly Gal


    El_Duderino 09 wrote: »
    If they left it up to him, in the way it’s been up to every other president in the history of the country, then he wouldn’t leave. If they force him out then he’ll leave.

    Do you really believe that?


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    #38
    El_Duderino 09
    Registered Users Posts: 19,995 ✭✭✭✭El_Duderino 09


    Man with broke phone wrote: »
    Yes selling weapons to saudi arabia

    Yeah. So we’re in agreement that the military industrial complex is doing great under trumped and the notion that he “turned his back” on it, as you said, is nonsense.


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    #39
    El_Duderino 09
    Registered Users Posts: 19,995 ✭✭✭✭El_Duderino 09


    Girly Gal wrote: »
    Do you really believe that?

    Yes.

    Do you think he’d just admit defeat and leave of his own accord? Are you not watching what’s happening? He’s denying he lost so he can hang on in power.

    What do you think is happening?


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    #40
    briany
    Registered Users Posts: 13,553 ✭✭✭✭briany


    Fall_Guy wrote: »
    That's all well and good to say, but in a world where people get all their information from a carefully curated social media stream that prioritises keeping you engaged with a specific platform over providing a rigorously fact-checked news source, Trump merely spouting this nonsense is enough do huge damage in a large amount of peoples faith in the integrity of the electoral system, no matter how many of his claims get disproven.

    Yeah, Trump doesn't know or care if it's proof. Someone posted an article about this the other day - it's all about the optics and keeping the base angry. It matters not to the true Trump believer that every fraud case so far put before state courts has been laughed out of the gaff. They'll still believe fraud was rife and enabled Biden to win. You can't argue these people down because they're not following logic to begin with.

    But one thing I don't think that Trump or his enablers have considered is that a base of people who suspect every institution is going to be hard to control. You're essentially trying to harness mob mentality, but mob mentality is notoriously volatile.


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    #41
    Man with broke phone
    Registered Users Posts: 1,201 ✭✭✭Man with broke phone


    El_Duderino 09 wrote: »
    Yeah. So we’re in agreement that the military industrial complex is doing great under trumped and the notion that he “turned his back” on it, as you said, is nonsense.

    He doesnt own the factories or run saudi arabia. What will Joe Biden do to ensure the factories stop selling rifles to Saudi Arabia?

    He will buy all the rifles himself, thats what he will do. Turning his front to the american industrial complex.

    You seem very tabloidy. Did you have much interest in american foreign policy before the bold Trump came on the scene?


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    #42
    Man with broke phone
    Registered Users Posts: 1,201 ✭✭✭Man with broke phone


    The press had you believe he was a laughing stock who all his staff and all the military and all the kings horses and all the kings men thought he was a bufoon and wanted him out.

    Now he has to leave they are having you believe he has seized the white house and him and his loyal men will enforce martial law and dismantle the constitution.


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    #43
    Girly Gal
    Registered Users Posts: 2,846 ✭✭✭Girly Gal


    El_Duderino 09 wrote: »
    Yes.

    Do you think he’d just admit defeat and leave of his own accord? Are you not watching what’s happening? He’s denying he lost so he can hang on in power.

    What do you think is happening?

    We're two months out from when Trump has to go, already in the last week a lot of people have begun to distant themselves from Trump, by January all that'll be left is his fan base. Trump already knows he lost the election just won't give Biden or the Democrats the satisfion of conceding. He knows he has to go and will go, but, he won't go a minute before he has to and make it as difficult as possible a transition for the incoming Biden administration. He's eyeing a run for 2024 whether that will materialise is another matter as a lot can happen in the next 3 to 4 years


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    #44
    LuckyLloyd
    Registered Users Posts: 36,154 ✭✭✭✭LuckyLloyd


    Man with broke phone wrote: »
    How he managed to somewhat balance the economy while turning his back on the industrial military comex is beyond me.

    There will be a big shock when the next fella arrives and nothing really happens. Youd think he is locked up in the white house starving prisoners and Biden is going to break down the castle wall and free all the slaves.

    Is there any real policy that is totally time sensitive that Biden is waiting to implement, something that will show any instant real change?

    Biden Policy: deal with an escalating public health emergency
    Trump Policy: pretend there is no public health emergency

    Biden Policy: fill all federal appointments and make sure government agencies have the minimum funding and manpower to fulfil their roles
    Trump Policy: defund government agencies like the CDC and leave 100s of necessary posts empty

    Stuff like that. You know the real basic competent running the federal government stuff.


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    #45
    Man with broke phone
    Registered Users Posts: 1,201 ✭✭✭Man with broke phone


    LuckyLloyd wrote: »
    Biden Policy: deal with an escalating public health emergency
    Trump Policy: pretend there is no public health emergency

    Biden Policy: fill all federal appointments and make sure government agencies have the minimum funding and manpower to fulfil their roles
    Trump Policy: defund government agencies like the CDC and leave 100s of necessary posts empty

    Stuff like that. You know the real basic competent running the federal government stuff.

    The only policy of defunding government departments was a democratic one involving the police and its going terribly, laughable. The rest of your post is vague slogan talk, give the departments that need it money from where we have it type stuff, keep the people busy with a punch and judy show while we control the world oil supply.


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    #46
    El_Duderino 09
    Registered Users Posts: 19,995 ✭✭✭✭El_Duderino 09


    Man with broke phone wrote: »
    He doesnt own the factories or run saudi arabia. What will Joe Biden do to ensure the factories stop selling rifles to Saudi Arabia?

    He will buy all the rifles himself, thats what he will do. Turning his front to the american industrial complex.

    You seem very tabloidy. Did you have much interest in american foreign policy before the bold Trump came on the scene?

    I don’t know what Biden will do. You made the nonsense claim that Trump “turned his back on the military industrial complex”. Talking about Saudi Arabia or Biden won’t make your untrue claim any less untrue.

    Did you think it was true when you said it or did you just say it anyway?


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    #47
    moon2
    Registered Users Posts: 677 ✭✭✭moon2


    Man with broke phone wrote: »
    The only policy of defunding government departments was a democratic one involving the police and its going terribly, laughable. The rest of your post is vague slogan talk, give the departments that need it money from where we have it type stuff, keep the people busy with a punch and judy show while we control the world oil supply.

    Did you forget that the pandemic response team was defunded by Trump? This is the group which was intended to coordinate the handling of health emergencies such as Covid-19.


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    #48
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    Man with broke phone wrote: »
    Yes selling weapons to saudi arabia
    Man with broke phone wrote: »
    The press had you believe he was a laughing stock who all his staff and all the military and all the kings horses and all the kings men thought he was a bufoon and wanted him out.

    Now he has to leave they are having you believe he has seized the white house and him and his loyal men will enforce martial law and dismantle the constitution.
    Man with broke phone wrote: »
    He doesnt own the factories or run saudi arabia. What will Joe Biden do to ensure the factories stop selling rifles to Saudi Arabia?

    He will buy all the rifles himself, thats what he will do. Turning his front to the american industrial complex.

    You seem very tabloidy. Did you have much interest in american foreign policy before the bold Trump came on the scene?

    It's perfectly within the US government's powers to ban sale of weapons to certain countries. Haven't you ever heard of sanctions?

    Also they're not simply selling rifles. The US government is actively selling the likes of missiles to Saudi Arabia. Trump was actively pursuing more deals as of this year. They've also done such deals with the UAE.

    https://www.defensenews.com/congress/2020/05/27/trump-seeking-new-arms-deal-with-saudi-arabia-says-key-senator/

    The Saudi deal amounts to hundreds of billions of dollars.
    https://www.cnbc.com/2017/05/20/us-saudi-arabia-seal-weapons-deal-worth-nearly-110-billion-as-trump-begins-visit.html

    So you claim Trump has been negative for the military industrial complex but the reality is they're thriving under him and he's actively boasted about the sales to states. His policies have benefited them and it's reflected in the stock market because their policies are far looser on international arms sales.
    https://www.reuters.com/article/us-lockheed-results-idUSKCN1RZ16Q


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    #49
    El_Duderino 09
    Registered Users Posts: 19,995 ✭✭✭✭El_Duderino 09


    Girly Gal wrote: »
    We're two months out from when Trump has to go, already in the last week a lot of people have begun to distant themselves from Trump, by January all that'll be left is his fan base. Trump already knows he lost the election just won't give Biden or the Democrats the satisfion of conceding. He knows he has to go and will go, but, he won't go a minute before he has to and make it as difficult as possible a transition for the incoming Biden administration. He's eyeing a run for 2024 whether that will materialise is another matter as a lot can happen in the next 3 to 4 years

    People distancing themselves from him is more to my point that he’ll only go when there is no choice. If it was left up to him, in the way it’s been left up to every other departing president and defeated president, he wouldn’t go. He will have to be pushed by things like his supporters distancing themselves from him.

    Whether he’ll run in 2024 is complete irrelevant to whether he’ll leave without being forced out.


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    #50
    Girly Gal
    Registered Users Posts: 2,846 ✭✭✭Girly Gal


    El_Duderino 09 wrote: »
    People distancing themselves from him is more to my point that he’ll only go when there is no choice. If it was left up to him, in the way it’s been left up to every other departing president and defeated president, he wouldn’t go. He will have to be pushed by things like his supporters distancing themselves from him.

    Whether he’ll run in 2024 is complete irrelevant to whether he’ll leave without being forced out.

    Pretty sure most of the previous presidents would stay on if it was an option, also need to go back to Bush Sr., since a sitting President was defeated so nothing more recently to compare with, also seem to remember Clinton's administration changeover to Bush jr. wasn't that harmonious either. Bottom line is Trump will go of his own accord when the time comes like all previous Presidents had to. Anyone who believes anything else is being hysterical.


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    #51
    LuckyLloyd
    Registered Users Posts: 36,154 ✭✭✭✭LuckyLloyd


    I am amazed at how widely distributed the "peace president" nonsense narrative is, and how consistently it is regurgitated.


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    #52
    Man with broke phone
    Registered Users Posts: 1,201 ✭✭✭Man with broke phone


    [Deleted User] wrote: »
    It's perfectly within the US government's powers to ban sale of weapons to certain countries. Haven't you ever heard of sanctions?

    Also they're not simply selling rifles. The US government is actively selling the likes of missiles to Saudi Arabia. Trump was actively pursuing more deals as of this year. They've also done such deals with the UAE.

    https://www.defensenews.com/congress/2020/05/27/trump-seeking-new-arms-deal-with-saudi-arabia-says-key-senator/

    The Saudi deal amounts to hundreds of billions of dollars.
    https://www.cnbc.com/2017/05/20/us-saudi-arabia-seal-weapons-deal-worth-nearly-110-billion-as-trump-begins-visit.html

    So you claim Trump has been negative for the military industrial complex but the reality is they're thriving under him and he's actively boasted about the sales to states. His policies have benefited them and it's reflected in the stock market because their policies are far looser on international arms sales.
    https://www.reuters.com/article/us-lockheed-results-idUSKCN1RZ16Q

    So your critisism of Trump is that he doesnt interfere with foreign countries enough and should be banning them from buying weapons and setting up embargoes so that you can blame him for ruining relationships and causing trouble on the world stage.


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    #53
    Fall_Guy
    Closed Accounts Posts: 776 ✭✭✭Fall_Guy


    Man with broke phone wrote: »
    So your critisism of Trump is that he doesnt interfere with foreign countries enough and should be banning them from buying weapons and setting up embargoes so that you can blame him for ruining relationships and causing trouble on the world stage.

    Are you suggesting that Trump doesn't interfere in other countries through military means? Prior to revoking US policy to release information on drone attacks in March 2019, he had presided over 2000+ drone attacks. Far more in 2 and a half years than Obama did in 8 years in office.

    Secondly, are you suggesting that Trump presides over an administration that sells arms to other countries just so as to not ruin relationships rather than as a profit-making exercise, despite the fact that his whole America First shtick is built on abandoning old relationships in favour of policies that may have short term benefit for the U.S. at the expense of international stability?


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    #54
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    Man with broke phone wrote: »
    So your critisism of Trump is that he doesnt interfere with foreign countries enough and should be banning them from buying weapons and setting up embargoes so that you can blame him for ruining relationships and causing trouble on the world stage.

    You claimed he was bad for the military industrial complex etc. That's a lie. The administration actively courted countries with questionable reputations and encouraged them to buy US arms. You think it's a good thing for countries with poor reputations to be able to buy US arms? Do you also view the likes of the Treaty on the Non-Proliferation of Nuclear Weapons to be interference?

    The reality is proliferation of weapons to such countries is not beneficial for any of us. Here's an example of how one of those bombs that they sold were used. That's the support of relationship they should foster?

    https://edition.cnn.com/2018/08/17/middleeast/us-saudi-yemen-bus-strike-intl/index.html


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    #55
    Gbear
    Registered Users Posts: 12,775 ✭✭✭✭Gbear


    moon2 wrote: »
    76 million voted against him.

    If we're throwing around numbers we may as well make it clear that you're referring to a minority of people. It is a large minority, but it's still the minority.

    As Trump said - a victory of 306 EC votes is a landslide. Biden has won by a landslide :)

    In an election between a center left and a center right candidate, a split of 76/70 would be fine. It wouldn't cause any tension, because in all likelihood, the majority of either side wouldn't have their noses put out of joint by the other side's candidate becoming president.

    It is extremely concerning that 70 million people were willing to vote for a fascist. It doesn't mean that there's 70m die-hard fascists in the US, but it means that the Republican coaltion have enough people in it that don't care enough about politics, or aren't aware enough about the specifics, that however many extremists there are, they have the tacit support of something approaching half of the electorate, and nearly a quarter of the country.

    There are essentially no means, fair or foul, for Trump to hang on to power, but regardless, the idea that this election was stolen will further cement the idea among the Republican party base that it is not possible for Democrats to be legitimately in power. That could have serious repercussions down the line, because it will make it easier for the next fascist to come along, and we can't rely on them all being as incompetent as Donald Trump and his clown car of enablers.

    The concern here isn't that Trump will stay in power. It's that his self-serving fantasy of election fraud is another knife in the back of American democracy, and it's already faltering.


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    #56
    crazy 88
    Registered Users Posts: 2,326 ✭✭✭crazy 88


    Girly Gal wrote: »
    It's interesting that that announcement was left until after the election, also Trump was laughed at and ridiculed when he said the vaccine would be available soon,with the experts saying it was at least 18 months to 2 years away
    Man with broke phone wrote: »
    The vaccination is all but ready but Biden will take credit.

    Trump can't take credit either and him doing so is another lie. Pfizer were not part of operation warp speed


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    #57
    crazy 88
    Registered Users Posts: 2,326 ✭✭✭crazy 88


    Gbear wrote: »
    It is extremely concerning that 70 million people were willing to vote for a fascist. It doesn't mean that there's 70m die-hard fascists in the US, but it means that the Republican coaltion have enough people in it that don't care enough about politics, or aren't aware enough about the specifics, that however many extremists there are, they have the tacit support of something approaching half of the electorate, and nearly a quarter of the country.

    I was willing to give those Americans the benefit of the doubt in 2016 - a vote for change, protest vote, anti Clinton etc. But after four years of seeing what Trump is they still vote for him even despite Biden being a very moderate Democrat. And now most of them believe there was a grand conspiracy to rig a US election (something that would take thousands of people and their silence for life) :confused: If they believe this and Trump were to throw democracy completely out the window and try seize power by force (extremely unlikely I know), I'd imagine these people would have no problem going along with it. It's quite disturbing and makes me fear for America and the world


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    #58
    Girly Gal
    Registered Users Posts: 2,846 ✭✭✭Girly Gal


    Gbear wrote: »
    In an election between a center left and a center right candidate, a split of 76/70 would be fine. It wouldn't cause any tension, because in all likelihood, the majority of either side wouldn't have their noses put out of joint by the other side's candidate becoming president.

    It is extremely concerning that 70 million people were willing to vote for a fascist. It doesn't mean that there's 70m die-hard fascists in the US, but it means that the Republican coaltion have enough people in it that don't care enough about politics, or aren't aware enough about the specifics, that however many extremists there are, they have the tacit support of something approaching half of the electorate, and nearly a quarter of the country.

    There are essentially no means, fair or foul, for Trump to hang on to power, but regardless, the idea that this election was stolen will further cement the idea among the Republican party base that it is not possible for Democrats to be legitimately in power. That could have serious repercussions down the line, because it will make it easier for the next fascist to come along, and we can't rely on them all being as incompetent as Donald Trump and his clown car of enablers.

    The concern here isn't that Trump will stay in power. It's that his self-serving fantasy of election fraud is another knife in the back of American democracy, and it's already faltering.

    Just as Trump can't dismiss or disregard the 76 million who voted for Biden, you can't just dismiss the 70 million who voted for Trump as either fascist, stupid or not bothered caring enough, because they didn't vote how you liked, politics is made up of differing views. The vast majority of those 70 million are ordinary decent Americans who were either happy with what the Trump administration were doing or didn't like what the alternative offered, just because you don't agree with them doesn't mean you can dismiss them or shut them down, they have a right to vote how they like.

    The narrative on here is that the Republicans are evil and the Democrats can do no wrong. The reality is much different, there's very little difference between the vast majority of them, it's just the extremists on both sides where the difference lies. It seems to be the nut jobs on both sides that get most of the air time.
    Trump is a crass individual and I personally wouldn't trust him as far as I could throw him, but, he did manage to capture a vote from people who either felt they weren't being represented or were disillusioned with the established candidates, don't think he cared a jot for them, just used them as a means to an end, it's what most politicians do, Trump just didn't bother to hide it like other politicians do.


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    #59
    roundymac
    Registered Users Posts: 2,712 ✭✭✭roundymac


    Trump is hoping that a curefor Covid is rolled out before he leaves office, that way he can claim it for himself, the bull**** that will come out of him when he goes to run in 2024 will be unbelieable.


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    #60
    donspeekinglesh
    Registered Users Posts: 1,861 ✭✭✭donspeekinglesh


    Hunky Monster wrote: »
    Voting irregularities.

    Maybe, maybe not.

    Let him go to court and see if there's proof. What's the problem. If there's no proof he's gone. What are you all worried about.

    He has gone to court. He's won one case (about late arriving votes in PA, too few to make the slightest difference to the result), and lost 20. His legal teams are abandoning ship. Those that remain are denying the cases are to do with fraud (the opposite of what Trump is rage tweeting), or getting ripped into by the judges for failing to understand basic legal concepts like hearsay.

    There is no proof. There is no legal strategy. It's a PR strategy.


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    #61
    jaykay74
    Registered Users Posts: 6,561 ✭✭✭jaykay74


    Girly Gal wrote: »
    It's interesting that that announcement was left until after the election, also Trump was laughed at and ridiculed when he said the vaccine would be available soon,with the experts saying it was at least 18 months to 2 years away

    Do you think Pfizer who are in a multi billion dollar race against other vaccine manufacturers just held back on announcing they had made significant progress on the road to the vaccine ? That seems a bit of a mental angle to take to be honest.


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