Best Trees or Mix of Trees for Roadside/Driveway

looksee · 02-12-2020 5:04pm

JustAThought wrote: »

The OP has two acres and a
field!! Or am I missing something!? I’d hardly call that restrictive or a challenging space!

There are not two acres and a field where the row of x's are, they are on the periphery of a reasonable sized garden.

looksee · 02-12-2020 5:36pm

OP, look at full size trees growing in a similar situation. The head of a part/full grown (say 10 years) silver birch, for example, would be maybe 3 to 4 meters across. A group of silver birches growing close enough for their heads to intermingle - say 2 m apart when planted, can look very well. However if you put in different trees growing completely into one another you cannot see the shape of any of them. Put in your trees maybe 3 to 4 meters apart, or a small group of two or three of the same sort one to two meters apart, and fill in the spaces between with smaller shrubs, again a couple of shrubs between two trees will give them chance to show themselves without becoming a solid hedge. Then another row set back behind the first lot - not in rigid rows but a bit varied - maybe a couple of meters back and alternating, more or less.

If you were planting woodland you would put in a lot of very small trees close together - 1.5 to 2 meters - which encourages them to grow tall and gives them shelter for each other. Then every few years you thin them so they have room to grow. But that is if you are growing a forestry cash crop, you are growing a decorative strip of semi woodland.

I have just been planting some of my Future Forests plants and the ones described as 2-3 ft are in fact more like 4 ft with a very healthy root system that needs a hole dug for it. The little 1ft whips could be slit planted but you will see that it would be difficult to get a good root system into a slit.

That is very good advice not to try and get them all at one time, give yourself time to do a decent job. Read up on the Teagasc and other woodland sites, Dept of Ag., etc - a lot of it is about forestry, grants and commercial stuff, but there is some useful information in it.

DonalB1 · 02-12-2020 5:59pm

looksee wrote: »

There are not two acres and a field where the row of x's are, they are on the periphery of a reasonable sized garden.

Sorry, that google maps imagine is from a few years ago I'd imagine, I bought the house the person who owns the land and also bought 2 acres behind it, so the field you see behind along the road is also mine. I plan on planting trees there too

hirondelle · 02-12-2020 6:14pm

Just to clarify on the treeplanting theories- it is common to plant trees 1-1.5 m apart- this forces the trees to grow straight and uniformly. The trick is to thin them out after a "certain" length of time- this sounds daunting but isn't. Realistically with mixed woodland you plant some quick-growing trees to offer them up- so birch and alder are good examples, Once these are thinned out then the other trees grow on into spaces. This all depends on the type of trees, soil and aspect so I couldn't give specific advice on when to thin them.

The alternative is to plant them further apart- this gives the same end result but you don't get the benefit of tightly-packed trees shading out the competing weed growth. I definitely prefer the former as it allows for trees that fail to be removed without a big hole in the treeline, as well as (I think) forcing the trees to grow up quicker. I personally think it offers better wildlife habitat as well. I agree the other poster as well- whips establish much quicker in my experience. I bought two 4m tall oaks a number of years ago, planted them properly, looked after them and they still sulked for two growing seasons, barely putting on any growth before eventually "catching".

If you are planting up the field you will definitely end up getting a chainsaw anyway!

DonalB1 · 02-12-2020 6:18pm

Thanks for all that amazing advice, father in law has a chainsaw and is only 1km away

Any idea how deep I need to go so as not to disturb the wall?

Bill Hook · 02-12-2020 6:23pm

The Trees on The Land website has a good planting guide...

https://www.treesontheland.com/planting-guide

Tiger20 · 02-12-2020 6:27pm

Hi 2 trees I love are Pyrus Chanticleer, or Carpinus Betulus Lucas or Frans Fontaine. They have about 2-3m of stem and are a lovely shape. The Chanticleer is more or less evergreen, and both look well mixed with latte shrubs. Used between/mixed in with other suggestion already mentioned would look well IMO

02-12-2020 7:16pm

Just a few points. Neither Fuchsia nor Rosa rugosa are native, and both are shockingly invasive too, so I think avoid at all costs. Cornus species similar.

When planting woods/forests, it's good to understand different species responses to light and shade. If you intend planting Hawthorn or Blackthorn, they will need to be at the edge, they are not true woodland plants, so won't survive in that kind of shade.

It is the kind of project that will develop as you go at it, so I would say stagger planting times, see how different plants are doing.

Willows and Alder for damper/wetter ground, if you can get Whitebeam for drier areas they are one of the handsomest Irish trees. And once trees are established, let the ivy grow.

But you will get loads of advice, I think anyone would love a few acres to try similar! Best of luck with everything.

JustAThought · 02-12-2020 7:30pm

the base of a wall is always sheltered and very dry so don’t plant right against one - your trees/shrubs will not thrive. also the roots over time will interfere with and damage/rise the wall over time so start at least two foot or preferably three foot out We totally lost a wall that way - it ended up wobbly like a marshmallow flog - the srubs were 100% but the wall cost thousands to replace - kids and postman were constantly sitting on it or nipping through it - it was a matter of time before someone got buried in bricks

OP - one thing I didn’t do was consider the width of the plants and how the shadow of the growing trees (and tall shrubs) would affect the growth of each other and block light or create cold spaces in the afternoon/ long evenings. My garden is south facing so everything I planted grew like wildfire - I’m not sure what aspect yours has? Also, I put in seating areas and planted scented shrubs and roses/ trellis climbers and lavenders around them so it would be scented & have space for changing seasonal bulbs when I was sitting out - that worked well for me. So in the summer my seating space has lupins and astherinums & roses & lavender & random others in pots & in winter I have a firepit thing and a winter cyclamum theme - springtime snowdrops, narcissi and hyachimths in pots etc. I also put in a small shed that I painted blue and trailed evergreen honeysuckle, ivy & clematis up so its nice for the bees & wildlife and I can stash the rakes & shovels & hoses & paints & poisons & gardening stuff in it and have them handy. If I had more space I’d have a little orchard of self pollinating fruit trees or some trained up against a wall ( or shed wall) like in old country estate gardens - plums, apple, different varietys etc.

A little suntrap area for a BBQ / firepit and somewhere to lie out in the sun & put your deckchairs/table or rattan couch is also nice.. or a garden swing to doze in to admire your plants... nice...maybe in some hidden corner with a different view or nook or random piece of antique or statue/feature or view /scene different to what you might have from your house windows...

CelticRambler · 03-12-2020 12:32am

:eek: Wow! This thread got busy while I was pushing my lockdown exemptions to the limit today!

Before I filled out my permission slip (it's a thing here) and went a-wandering, I meant to say, OP, not to get too hung up on evergreens and I was going to post a pic to show why, but "stuff happened"

and I see that you've had plenty of non-evergreen suggestions in the meantime.

If I can get my act together, I'll take a photo tomorrow and post it anyway; but I would like to follow up on a remark made by JustAThought, i.e. that you can get a lot of "privacy" effect from younger trees while they're still small and twiggy, that's lost as they mature and grow tall. It might be worth considering some species that can be coppiced effectively (willow and sweet chestnut are what I have in that category) and accept that you'll need to take a chainsaw to them every few years to keep them re-sprouting from the base.

hirondelle · 03-12-2020 10:11am

DonalB1 wrote: »

Thanks for all that amazing advice, father in law has a chainsaw and is only 1km away

Any idea how deep I need to go so as not to disturb the wall?

As JustaThought suggests, be careful with the wall. It isn't the depth that you plant, tree roots happily grow horizontally outwards where the soil is good. If you poured a concrete base for the wall it is less of an issue. In any case, I'm guessing you have a ride-on, I would keep a full mowing width or two back from the wall- easier to maintain the garden and you can eventually prune so the higher branches can grow above the wall (visualise as much as you can what the trees are going to look like- I literally pegged out the four or five metre spreads of different tree types to help me figure out the "final look). I would also build in a composting area somewhere along the wall- you will obviously be getting a lot of leaves in the future. Leaf mould is genuinely brilliant stuff and just by storing up the leaves for a year (or two) you get a brilliant free soil conditioner. I would only take leaves where they fall onto the lawn- the ones that fall into the wooded area help suppress the grass growth and makes it a much better habitat.

CelticRambler · 03-12-2020 11:34am

Further to last night's post, here's a (not great) photo of part of my entirely deciduous hedgerow:

For a sense of scale, you can see the back end of a Volvo in the distance. The hedge (self-sown) is about 10 years old, and is growing on both sides of a shallow ditch ... and in it! :rolleyes: Right now, it's an irregular 2m to 3m wide, and that's after it was thinned out and tidied up last week (I've neglected that part of the garden for a long time)

Species-wise, it's a mixture of willow, sycamore, beech (might be hornbeam), birch, hawthorn, blackthorn and oak, with wild roses, honeysuckle and ivy adding "interest".

As you can see, left to her own devices, Mother Nature doesn't really respect recommended planting distances!

But I have imposed a separation of about the same 50-100cm suggested above to allow the nicer specimens room to grow straight and tall.

On a side note, I don't consider keeping my hedges in order to be a "chore" - it's more of a "harvest" as everything stays on-site : thicker branches going to woodwork or the fire; smaller branches to the fire or chipped for use as a mulch; and twigs, brambles, leaves and the rest heaped up somewhere either for compost or (new direction) to build hügelkultur-type beds, one of which will be for exactly the same purpose as your line of trees - a privacy screen.

DonalB1 · 03-12-2020 11:42am

Hi guys, thanks a million for the suggestions. It's been a great read and I'll continue to use it when looking for more.

So far I have managed to source,

2x Iris Alder
2x Mountain Ash
1x Common Oak
2x Silver Birch
2x Willow
1x Hazel - not sure about this one though.

I'm really trying to find some Arbutus Unedo, Sweet Chestnut, Rowan Mountain Ash and Evergreen Oak.

There are currently briars and other shrubs growing along the roadside wall in the field, I can see birds are in and out of them...what do people suggest here? Plant the trees bhind and then wait to plant schrubs later? Or leave as is?

hirondelle · 04-12-2020 9:49am

DonalB1 wrote: »

Hi guys, thanks a million for the suggestions. It's been a great read and I'll continue to use it when looking for more.

So far I have managed to source,

2x Iris Alder
2x Mountain Ash
1x Common Oak
2x Silver Birch
2x Willow
1x Hazel - not sure about this one though.

I'm really trying to find some Arbutus Unedo, Sweet Chestnut, Rowan Mountain Ash and Evergreen Oak.

There are currently briars and other shrubs growing along the roadside wall in the field, I can see birds are in and out of them...what do people suggest here? Plant the trees bhind and then wait to plant schrubs later? Or leave as is?

I would go hard at the briars, they can spread easily through a relatively thin section of woodland and become difficult to eradicate later. Repeated mowing will keep them down where you can mow.

CelticRambler · 04-12-2020 10:19am

hirondelle wrote: »

I would go hard at the briars, they can spread easily through a relatively thin section of woodland and become difficult to eradicate later.

Seconded! In the picture above can be seen piles of vegetation in the middle of the lane. This is nearly all bramble cleared from ditch and adjacent hard surface o the lane (compacted stone) - and the main reason this particular stretch was neglected for so long. Left alone, aswell as spreading along the ground, the brambles grow up through the trees, arc over at about 2.5-3m high and droop down at just the right height to caress your face as you whizz past on the ride-on mower ... :mad:

If you can't mow them, it's easy enough to keep them in check after one serious de-brambling session with a slash-hook and lopping shears (ideally with an assistant to pull them away from your work zone) and a twice-yearly saunter through the area afterwards to remove the Résistance.

hirondelle · 04-12-2020 10:45am

CelticRambler wrote: »

Seconded! In the picture above can be seen piles of vegetation in the middle of the lane. This is nearly all bramble cleared from ditch and adjacent hard surface o the lane (compacted stone) - and the main reason this particular stretch was neglected for so long. Left alone, aswell as spreading along the ground, the brambles grow up through the trees, arc over at about 2.5-3m high and droop down at just the right height to caress your face as you whizz past on the ride-on mower ... :mad:

If you can't mow them, it's easy enough to keep them in check after one serious de-brambling session with a slash-hook and lopping shears (ideally with an assistant to pull them away from your work zone) and a twice-yearly saunter through the area afterwards to remove the Résistance.

Ah, another member of the Bramble Survivors Group!

DonalB1 · 04-12-2020 11:11am

Hahahaha thanks guys.

Right that's my weekend booked up so, briar extermination and tree plantation.

What do people think of a small row of silver birch at the front wall? (Marked black in attachment) Just a single row of 5-6 inside my front wall from the main road way up until my front gate? Do they look good in a row on their own with no other trees/shrubs, or is there a better tree? I'm also mindful that I'd like the front not to be bare but I don't want to block all the sun.

I’m thinking then a mix of trees where it’s marked blue, keeping it neat for my mower to get in between, a bit more compact and then in the field where it’s marked red I’m thinking of trees, thornberries etc? I won’t be using the lawnmower there.

Again if anyone here that knows more than I do has any advice or would change that then please let me know as Id like to get this looking as well as possible without spending thousands

I’ve completely gone with what people here have advised, it’s been so helpful. I’ve always loved the roadside hedges and trees look but had no idea how to achieve it.

macraignil · 04-12-2020 11:33am

Silver birch can grow a bit irregular with their trunks not all staying perfectly straight which is not ideal for trees to be planted in neat row. I pass a mature row of them near where I live regularly and to me they look a bit odd. I'd prefer something like Lime trees (Tilia cordata) or white beam (Sorbus aria) in that type of planting but there are a lot of other options that could look well also.

blackbox · 04-12-2020 11:56am

Personally, I'd avoid anything with thorns. Who needs the torment when there are so many others to choose from.

CelticRambler · 04-12-2020 12:09pm

DonalB1 wrote: »

What do people think of a small row of silver birch at the front wall? (Marked black in attachment) Just a single row of 5-6 inside my front wall from the main road way up until my front gate? Do they look good in a row on their own with no other trees/shrubs, or is there a better tree?

When grouped together, they look like this:

Not sure how many there are there (that's about 4 linear metres) but you can see what macraignil describes - they grow straight, but not necessarily straight-up. Lovely winter trees, though - you can see how they catch the light more than the other species (willow to the left, oak/hawthorn/acacia to the right) And they're great for woodcraft if you're looking for straight trunks. I've taken out about a dozen of those - some growing into the lane at a 45° angle - to make a crib and Christmas table decorations this week.

DonalB1 · 04-12-2020 12:21pm

CelticRambler wrote: »

When grouped together, they look like this:

Not sure how many there are there (that's about 4 linear metres) but you can see what macraignil describes - they grow straight, but not necessarily straight-up. Lovely winter trees, though - you can see how they catch the light more than the other species (willow to the left, oak/hawthorn/acacia to the right) And they're great for woodcraft if you're looking for straight trunks. I've taken out about a dozen of those - some growing into the lane at a 45° angle - to make a crib and Christmas table decorations this week.

Ok, I see, is that wild bushes in between? Is there any tree that grows and stays to about 10 foot tall or would look neat in a row spaced out around 2m between them?

Accidentally · 04-12-2020 12:21pm

DonalB1 wrote: »

Hahahaha thanks guys.

Right that's my weekend booked up so, briar extermination and tree plantation.

What do people think of a small row of silver birch at the front wall? (Marked black in attachment) Just a single row of 5-6 inside my front wall from the main road way up until my front gate? Do they look good in a row on their own with no other trees/shrubs, or is there a better tree? I'm also mindful that I'd like the front not to be bare but I don't want to block all the sun.

I’m thinking then a mix of trees where it’s marked blue, keeping it neat for my mower to get in between, a bit more compact and then in the field where it’s marked red I’m thinking of trees, thornberries etc? I won’t be using the lawnmower there.

Again if anyone here that knows more than I do has any advice or would change that then please let me know as Id like to get this looking as well as possible without spending thousands

I’ve completely gone with what people here have advised, it’s been so helpful. I’ve always loved the roadside hedges and trees look but had no idea how to achieve it.

+1 on bramble removal. I've recently moved to using a battery powered hedge cutter, and it's a huge improvement over lopping sheers and slash hooks. Goes through them like a light saber, and much less bleeding when you're finished.

Whatever you do, do not plant Blackthorn. It spreads by runners and will break your heart. Hawthorn is fine.

CelticRambler · 04-12-2020 12:26pm

Accidentally wrote: »

+1 on bramble removal. I've recently moved to using a battery powered hedge cutter, and it's a huge improvement over lopping sheers and slash hooks. Goes through them like a light saber, and much less bleeding when you're finished.

Yes, a hedge trimmer is the business when you're faced with brambley space invaders that just need to be blitzed, but it's hard and inaccurate work when you're trying not to prune your carefully nurtured saplings!

CelticRambler · 04-12-2020 12:31pm

DonalB1 wrote: »

Ok, I see, is that wild bushes in between?

There's nothing (much) in between them now. This is a further back view of the same trees in the first photo I posted (same lane, different weather!) You might be looking at the prickly hedge further back, visible through those trees.

DonalB1 wrote: »

Is there any tree that grows and stays to about 10 foot tall or would look neat in a row spaced out around 2m between them?

I'll have to let someone else answer that ...

Accidentally · 04-12-2020 12:45pm

DonalB1 wrote: »

Ok, I see, is that wild bushes in between? Is there any tree that grows and stays to about 10 foot tall or would look neat in a row spaced out around 2m between them?

Of the natives, Rowan and Hazel would be okay, but I'm sure there's heaps of non native stuff that fit the bill.

looksee · 04-12-2020 2:04pm

We are bramble experts here, having reclaimed meters of ground all round the site by removing them. (I am generously including myself in this endeavour, the most I did was helping put the bigger ones through the shredder*). The chief bramble remover's weapon of choice was a secateurs and a long armed clipper, going in on knees under the canopy of briars (many of which were growing up into trees 12 to 15 feet from the ground) clipping off stems at ground level then raking all the loose stuff away and continuing.

Whatever suits you though, there isn't a 'best way' of removing briars, just patience and very tough riggers gloves - so you can handle briars without destroying yourself.

*Shredding briars is satisfyingly dangerous - they go through like long strings of spaghetti, but with the added spice of whipping around as they go, this is not a job for the unwary

DonalB1 · 04-12-2020 2:46pm

looksee wrote: »

We are bramble experts here, having reclaimed meters of ground all round the site by removing them. (I am generously including myself in this endeavour, the most I did was helping put the bigger ones through the shredder*). The chief bramble remover's weapon of choice was a secateurs and a long armed clipper, going in on knees under the canopy of briars (many of which were growing up into trees 12 to 15 feet from the ground) clipping off stems at ground level then raking all the loose stuff away and continuing.

Whatever suits you though, there isn't a 'best way' of removing briars, just patience and very tough riggers gloves - so you can handle briars without destroying yourself.

*Shredding briars is satisfyingly dangerous - they go through like long strings of spaghetti, but with the added spice of whipping around as they go, this is not a job for the unwary

I helped my father do it years ago...it was a pain of a job. The shredder sounds great though

I might plant the trees now and few feet back from the briars and then wait for better weather to remove the briars as getting down on all fours in that weather sounds awful.

Funsterdelux · 04-12-2020 3:03pm

Briars = slash hook and a hay fork/grape (it keeps you 3/4ft away from them)

Welding gauntlets are great for grabbing and pulling brambles.

looksee · 04-12-2020 4:03pm

We went round afterwards and took up the roots - I gather if you get the main node or whatever it is called, the roots don't matter too much. Best tool we have bought is a mattock, easier to handle than a pickaxe and much more grubbing up and chopping off scope.

04-12-2020 6:48pm

And just to be contrary, I am very fond of the oul brambles. We have over 100 species in Ireland, some quite rare. They are superb for wildlife, provide structure and security for birds nests - most garden birds don't nest high up in trees like in cartoons, but in low thick scrubby out of the way corners. Fantastic for pollinators and of course for autumn food, and can deter unwelcome visitors too.

Best Trees or Mix of Trees for Roadside/Driveway

Comments