Should there be a driving licence refresher test?

Ubbquittious · 01-12-2020 7:58pm

No refresher test. I have enough on my plate without more bother from the powers that be. Just let people alone. Fcuk sake

tayto lover · 01-12-2020 8:37pm

Ubbquittious wrote: »

No refresher test. I have enough on my plate without more bother from the powers that be. Just let people alone. Fcuk sake

The problem as I see it is that many drivers on Irish roads have not done a test at all never mind a refresher.

jmreire · 01-12-2020 8:41pm

Ubbquittious wrote: »

No refresher test. I have enough on my plate without more bother from the powers that be. Just let people alone. Fcuk sake

Exactly !! If a driver breaks the law / rules etc. then based on the transgression , take the appropriate action... be that a re-test, medical etc. But we don't need another level of officialdom on top of everything else the driver has to conform to.

wonski · 01-12-2020 8:42pm

tayto lover wrote: »

The problem as I see it is that many drivers on Irish roads have not done a test at all never mind a refresher.

How many?

tayto lover · 01-12-2020 8:46pm

wonski wrote: »

How many?

The breakdown of numbers shows that there are 124,370 people currently using their first provisional licence, 53,027 on their second, 15,448 on their third, 12,899 on their fourth, and a whopping 36,814 on their fifth or higher provisional.Apr 25, 2018. Irish Times.

That enough?

tim3000 · 01-12-2020 8:47pm

I don't think there is the too bad of a standard in Ireland amongst most people. However i think that the more powerful the car the worse the driver on average. Audi and BMW drivers are stereotypes for a reason.

I think the power of their cars breeds over confidence and with that comes a propensity to take more risks. I think they become used to the idea that speed will get them out of trouble in other words.

I would love to know the make of car involved in most accidents in Ireland. Perhaps someone would enlighten me

Dempo1 · 01-12-2020 8:48pm

Genesis Bald Storekeeper wrote: »

Something like every 10 years. Nothing mad, just to see if you understand the rules of the road properly. The standard of driving out there is absolutely horrendous. No indicators, wrong lanes, no ideas at roundabouts, no mirrors, tailgating, full beams on in Broad daylight, no lights on in pitch darkness, driving around in fog or heavy rain with just drls on. Just some of the the stuff I've witnessed. If you're driving around in a 2 tonne metal box you should know how to drive it properly.

Whilst an interesting suggestion, given the utterly appalling backlog on current first license driving test, it would be a decade before the incompetent RSA got around to introducing implementing such a concept, and this after an uproar from existing license holders. I'd doubt there's a single current politician would touch such an idea, even with the longest barge pole.

wonski · 01-12-2020 8:50pm

tayto lover wrote: »

The breakdown of numbers shows that there are 124,370 people currently using their first provisional licence, 53,027 on their second, 15,448 on their third, 12,899 on their fourth, and a whopping 36,814 on their fifth or higher provisional.Apr 25, 2018.

That enough?

Are they all driving on their own, though?

How many people have no license at all?

A million?

Many have provisional licences issued but not even using it.

tayto lover · 01-12-2020 8:53pm

wonski wrote: »

Are they all driving on their own, though?

How many people have no license at all?

A million?

Many have provisional licences issued but not even using it.

No matter which way you look at it there’s far too many unqualified drivers on our roads. Some who have repeat Provisional Licences and who never intend to do a test.
Shouldn’t be allowed to happen imo.

Dempo1 · 01-12-2020 8:54pm

wonski wrote: »

Are they all driving on their own, though?

How many people have no license at all?

A million?

Many have provisional licences issued but not even using it.

I see latest figures for cars siezed from unaccompanied drivers was 5,000 last year, nice little earner. It got me thinking if every car being driven by unaccompanied drivers was detected, Ireland would have the largest car pound in the world.

Belt · 01-12-2020 9:05pm

tayto lover wrote: »

The breakdown of numbers shows that there are 124,370 people currently using their first provisional licence, 53,027 on their second, 15,448 on their third, 12,899 on their fourth, and a whopping 36,814 on their fifth or higher provisional.Apr 25, 2018. Irish Times.

That enough?

Don't forget those of a certain generation who would have benefited from the driving test amnesty in the 70s

wonski · 01-12-2020 9:08pm

Belt wrote: »

Don't forget those of a certain generation who would have benefited from the driving test amnesty in the 70s

50 years ago like?

Sure, I hate those old lads speeding down my local road in their tdi's like they don't care if they survived.

They are all over the place.

Gardai should deal with them.

tayto lover · 01-12-2020 9:11pm

Belt wrote: »

Don't forget those of a certain generation who would have benefited from the driving test amnesty in the 70s

They’re not even included in those figures. Crazy stuff.

SimonTemplar · 01-12-2020 9:17pm

I think for a lot of people, their approach is "the rules don't apply to me". Every driver in the country knows they shouldn't overtake on a continuous white line or that they shouldn't hold their phone while driving, but loads of them still so do.

A refresher test isn't going to solve that problem.

Cilldara_2000 · 01-12-2020 9:31pm

I like that one of the main arguments against this is that drivers are worse in other countries: D

In reality it's bonkers that you can drive for 53 years with no supervision or training and you self certify that you're fit to drive, and you're tickety boo unless you get for drink driving or you kill someone. Those of us who are willing to make an effort to keep our standards up should be making a fuss about this - get the eejits off the road and the dangers reduce and insurance should come down.

On the age thing, gobsh1ttery does not appear to discriminate based on age. Every day you drive you see people of all ages making stupid mistakes on the road.

jmreire · 01-12-2020 9:59pm

SimonTemplar wrote: »

I think for a lot of people, their approach is "the rules don't apply to me". Every driver in the country knows they shouldn't overtake on a continuous white line or that they shouldn't hold their phone while driving, but loads of them still so do.

A refresher test isn't going to solve that problem.

There's massive attention paid to driving correctly during the driving school / 1st provisional licence stage. All the "T"'s are crossed and the "i"s dotted. After the test is passed, and the plates changed from "L" to "N", most of this learning is forgotten.... or at least thats the way it seems to me. These Novi drivers can be seen driving very recklessly.....they have now got the licence, but not yet the experience.

Eggs For Dinner · 01-12-2020 11:21pm

Belt wrote: »

Don't forget those of a certain generation who would have benefited from the driving test amnesty in the 70s

50 years of driving since then. If they haven't accumulated enough convictions or accidents to lose their licence in that time, they have earned their place on our roads

01-12-2020 11:27pm

Genesis Bald Storekeeper wrote: »

Something like every 10 years. Nothing mad, just to see if you understand the rules of the road properly. The standard of driving out there is absolutely horrendous. No indicators, wrong lanes, no ideas at roundabouts, no mirrors, tailgating, full beams on in Broad daylight, no lights on in pitch darkness, driving around in fog or heavy rain with just drls on. Just some of the the stuff I've witnessed. If you're driving around in a 2 tonne metal box you should know how to drive it properly.

Basically NO, unless as stated by a few posters, you are found guilty of some road traffic transgression, otherwise NO, a very Irish solution to a problem not caused by all, ie penalise all for the sins of others.

Stevieluvsye wrote: »

Sorry, i should have put in my initial post that i think there is a high proportion of all drivers that are useless.
A trend i have found lately is N drivers seem to be worse than L drivers. Maybe overconfidense. I don't know

I dont see many L drivers anymore, but I do see lots of N drivers, I do not know how they ever passed their test, unless something else is up? like L drivers with N plates for some reason? dont get stopped or blame the other sibling who passed their test or something, but the N drivers I have seen out and about are appalling drivers, either speeding (overconfidience/lack of experience/dangerous) or hesitant (no confidence/lack of experience/not really dangerous like speeding but liable to cause other problems).

tayto lover wrote: »

I have seen some terrible driving from all ages and sexes.
I know both young and old drivers who are excellent.
I’d make a refresher test mandatory for anyone convicted of careless or dangerous driving in court.
Punish the offenders and not the competent drivers.

This, thumbs up, makes sense
Aside from the fact that well intentioned, often turns out badly and different to how it was intended. Can easily see it being used as a means to fleece drivers who have done nothing wrong, or be scammed yet again by the insurance industry.

GLaDOS wrote: »

I assume most drivers know the rules, they just don't care.
People going through late orange/red lights is a common one. They know they shouldn't, but they do it anyway.

There's your first 2 problems, some dont care is next as cars are means to get from A - B only for these people, cars/driving doesn't interest them in any other way.
Im not excusing it, but sometimes junction design/traffic light sequence can cause problems, needless to say people should jump red/amber lights, know one junction where I consider it notorious for breaking ambers/red.
One instance I could have crossed part of that junction where amber just came on but I stopped, knowing what people are like/plus you cant see across, a van ploughed through the junction at speed, must have really been pushing the red to get where he was.

Halenvaneddie wrote: »

Considering how boomers were given them by the government back in the day without sitting a test , yes

In the mid 70's, tbh Id consider them to be as likely to be more careful drivers than young lads/ones I see going around today, some problems like lane hogging on motorways,

mikemac2 wrote: »

This poster speaks the truth

Never was I more scared using a pedestrian crossing than the city of Rome :eek:

Don't leave us hanging

Was the cow alright?

Just walk at the same time as a group of Nuns, thats when I realised drivers will stop for you if you walk out and cross anyway, if you aren't crossing they wouldnt stop needlessly, I think we joked they were driving around looking out the back window shaking their fist at other drivers anyway, but that was an exaggerated joke really.

Charles Babbage · 01-12-2020 11:40pm

tayto lover wrote: »

The problem as I see it is that many drivers on Irish roads have not done a test at all never mind a refresher.

Perhaps 2% have not, this is a problem but not the only problem.

Jim_Hodge · 01-12-2020 11:54pm

Belt wrote: »

Don't forget those of a certain generation who would have benefited from the driving test amnesty in the 70s

Most of them are no longer driving and using this magical bus pass at this stage.

Wishbone Ash · 01-12-2020 11:57pm

1874 wrote: »

...In the mid 70's....

October 1979.

I'd say that there are more people driving from the pre test era (pre 1964) that those who benefitted from the amnesty.

jmreire · 02-12-2020 1:26am

1874 wrote: »

Basically NO, unless as stated by a few posters, you are found guilty of some road traffic transgression, otherwise NO, a very Irish solution to a problem not caused by all, ie penalise all for the sins of others.

I dont see many L drivers anymore, but I do see lots of N drivers, I do not know how they ever passed their test, unless something else is up? like L drivers with N plates for some reason? dont get stopped or blame the other sibling who passed their test or something, but the N drivers I have seen out and about are appalling drivers, either speeding (overconfidience/lack of experience/dangerous) or hesitant (no confidence/lack of experience/not really dangerous like speeding but liable to cause other problems).

This, thumbs up, makes sense
Aside from the fact that well intentioned, often turns out badly and different to how it was intended. Can easily see it being used as a means to fleece drivers who have done nothing wrong, or be scammed yet again by the insurance industry.

There's your first 2 problems, some dont care is next as cars are means to get from A - B only for these people, cars/driving doesn't interest them in any other way.
Im not excusing it, but sometimes junction design/traffic light sequence can cause problems, needless to say people should jump red/amber lights, know one junction where I consider it notorious for breaking ambers/red.
One instance I could have crossed part of that junction where amber just came on but I stopped, knowing what people are like/plus you cant see across, a van ploughed through the junction at speed, must have really been pushing the red to get where he was.

In the mid 70's, tbh Id consider them to be as likely to be more careful drivers than young lads/ones I see going around today, some problems like lane hogging on motorways,

Just walk at the same time as a group of Nuns, thats when I realised drivers will stop for you if you walk out and cross anyway, if you aren't crossing they wouldnt stop needlessly, I think we joked they were driving around looking out the back window shaking their fist at other drivers anyway, but that was an exaggerated joke really.

100% agreed with all the above mentioned points..the hoary old chestnuts being rolled out again, pre 1964 drivers, no test, Pay 1 Irish Pound, get your licence , and off you go...only criteria was you had to be 18,...so that would make any none test drivers from that time minimum 74 years or age. Fast forward to the 1970's so called free pass,,except it was not a free passs..it only applied to people who were on their 2nd or 3rd ( or more ) provisional licence. So not exactly handing out free licences willy nilly to all and sundry. They all had one thing in common... experience, and there was no sudden jump in the accident statistics from back then that could be explained by the type Licences driver's held. And as for having to do more driver tests as you get older..to hell with that for a game of cowboys.....We are currently in the "honeymoon" phase of massive covid borrowing, on top of our bail out loan, but sooner or later all of this will have to be paid back, and our finance an taxation departments will be using very powerfull microscopes sussing out income streams.....and the old reliables of vehicles will definitely be targeted.. Just wait and see.

beachhead · 02-12-2020 1:41am

All drivers should be micro chipped and have phones scanned for 24/7 observation.GPS can be overridden

Wishbone Ash · 02-12-2020 8:04am

jmreire wrote: »

... Fast forward to the 1970's so called free pass,,except it was not a free passs..it only applied to people who were on their 2nd or 3rd ( or more ) provisional licence. ...

It was only for those on a 2nd provisional licence (as they were legally permitted to drive unaccompanied). Those on 1st, 3rd and subsequent provisionals didn't benefit. More importantly, when Barrett made the announcement in October of 1979, it was only applicable to those who were on the waiting list the previous March. Those on their 2nd provisional who hadn't been on the waiting list by 31st March, didn't benefit.

It always amazes me how so many people on this forum use the amnesty as the rationale for poor driving standards when probably only 1% of current drivers benefited and the majority of those whould have passed a test anyway. It would never have happened if the country hadn't been crippled by a 7 month postal strike which caused havoc at a time when few people had telephones.

Gardesana Pecher · 02-12-2020 8:09am

Well I dont think a refresher would do much good. People will always revert back to their way. Also the system would be negatively impacted with all the backlog.

What I see is that people have no idea of the meaning various green lights, the full green, green upwards arrow, and green left/right arrows.

RacoonQueen · 02-12-2020 8:19am

GLaDOS wrote: »

I assume most drivers know the rules, they just don't care.

People going through late orange/red lights is a common one. They know they shouldn't, but they do it anyway.

Dunno about that, judging by the sort of **** that gets thrown out in comments sections on Facebook/replies on Twitter. A hell of a lot of people don't have a notion what the rules are.

A shocking number of people really don't fully understand traffic lights either...real life conversations with people who don't think amber means stop, don't understand how filter lights work. Some of who learnt to drive in back arse of nowhere, never experienced traffic lights while learning or in their test....then they move to Dublin and..well..you know...

Eggs For Dinner · 02-12-2020 8:26am

Jim_Hodge wrote: »

Most of them are no longer driving and using this magical bus pass at this stage.

My brother got one of these licences. He's 59 and has never had as much as a broken windscreen in his driving history, let alone an accident or penalty points

jmreire · 02-12-2020 10:40am

In terms of the nrs, when the govt announced that it was introducing a driving test effective from a certain date, there was the usual rush to get the license before that date even by people who did not even have a car. I know one Lady who got one, the full licence, car and truck, "just in case " yet never once in her life sat behind the wheel of anything,let alone drove it. I'm pretty sure that there were lots of others like her.

pinktoe · 02-12-2020 10:57am

The majority of driver fatalities in 2019 was males aged 58.

Out of 81 driver fatalities 43 were above 46.

So it's not just young drivers to blame.

First PDF here https://www.rsa.ie/RSA/Road-Safety/RSA-Statistics/Collision-Statistics/Provisional-Reviews/

Pre covid I would be doing circa 50k km a year and I really think people need to start buying automatics. Oldish people stall at lights alot, appear to go into a roundabout at a high gear leaving them with no power. There is an age group that don't understand what an overtaking lane is and have this stupid attitude that I can drive where I want because I pay motor tax.

Considering the waits involved for getting your test done for the first time, we shouldn't be in a rush to retest drivers but the Gardaí should be more eager to issues points for people who don't know what yellow boxes are for or who can't use a roadabout ot motorway properly.

ohnonotgmail · 02-12-2020 10:59am

pinktoe wrote: »

The majority of driver fatalities in 2019 was males aged 58.

Out of 81 driver fatalities 43 were above 46.

So it's not just young drivers to blame.

First PDF here https://www.rsa.ie/RSA/Road-Safety/RSA-Statistics/Collision-Statistics/Provisional-Reviews/

Pre covid I would be doing circa 50k km a year and I really think people need to start buying automatics. Oldish people stall at lights alot, appear to go into a roundabout at a high gear leaving them with no power. There is an age group that don't understand what an overtaking lane is and have this stupid attitude that I can drive where I want because I pay road tax.

Considering the waits involved for getting your test done for the first time, we shouldn't be in a rush to retest drivers but the Gardaí should be more eager to issues points for people who don't know what yellow boxes are for or who can't use a roadabout ot motorway properly.

that doesn't mention who was responsible for those accidents.

pinktoe · 02-12-2020 11:03am

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

that doesn't mention who was responsible for those accidents.

Have you that information? I can't find it but would like to see it

ohnonotgmail · 02-12-2020 11:06am

pinktoe wrote: »

Have you that information? I can't find it but would like to see it

I dont but you can't use that information to claim that older people are responsible for the majority of accidents

pinktoe · 02-12-2020 11:17am

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

I dont but you can't use that information to claim that older people are responsible for the majority of accidents

I didn't say they are responsible for the majority of accidents. I showed statistics showing figures for fatalities in 2019.

There are posts here saying young drivers are responsible for the majority of accidents, I would just like a link to this information if it exists.

ohnonotgmail · 02-12-2020 11:18am

pinktoe wrote: »

I didn't say they are responsible for the majority of accidents. I showed statistics showing figures for fatalities in 2019.

There are posts here saying young drivers are responsible for the majority of accidents, I would just like a link to this information if it exists.

well now, you did. you used the word blame. and there is more to accidents than those involving fatalities.

The majority of driver fatalities in 2019 was males aged 58.

Out of 81 driver fatalities 43 were above 46.

So it's not just young drivers to blame.

RacoonQueen · 02-12-2020 11:24am

jmreire wrote: »

In terms of the nrs, when the govt announced that it was introducing a driving test effective from a certain date, there was the usual rush to get the license before that date even by people who did not even have a car. I know one Lady who got one, the full licence, car and truck, "just in case " yet never once in her life sat behind the wheel of anything,let alone drove it. I'm pretty sure that there were lots of others like her.

Yeah, my dad has one. He can drive a bus or a truck according to his license.
He can barely drive a car.

rapul · 02-12-2020 11:27am

People don't indicate on roundabouts wtf is wrong with this country drives me mad!!

On topic, yes no harm for a refresher for any age.

Antares35 · 02-12-2020 11:44am

I find it's mostly aggression and impatience on the road that's the problem. Tailgating, overtaking when not appropriate etc. They should just have a basic manners test.

Never had an OAP drive up my áss or engage in other intimidating behaviour.

Parents almost killed by a couple of "boy racers" i.e. scobes in a stolen car, a few years back. No insurance. Police advised not to press charges, mammy is a nice woman, one son already a jailbird etc. Pity the scobes walked away from the accident. Better luck next time.

Elderly have to have more frequent medicals in order to renew license, as far as I know.

E36Ross · 02-12-2020 11:52am

Don't agree with refresher tests..... It'll be just turned into a cash cow like all the CPC ****e bus/truck drivers have to do.

Biggest problem I notice daily (Averaging about 1200km a week) Is indication/lane discipline on roundabouts, Really annoying when your in something big/slow and traffic is relatively heavy and cars just start darting in random directions. That and they random middle lane drivers on the M7/M50.

jmreire · 02-12-2020 11:55am

RacoonQueen wrote: »

Yeah, my dad has one. He can drive a bus or a truck according to his license.
He can barely drive a car.

If he can only barely drive a car, and after having the licence all these years you would have to ask why? Is it because he has never really drove ( My Father would fit into this category) or has been driving all along, but would still fail a test if he had to take one the present day? I know a few professional HGV drivers who got one of these 1 Pound licences, and have been driving for many years ( inc. continental driving) with out incident. But their Nr s are getting less and less each year as Father Time takes his toll + insurance issue's for professional drivers.

liamog · 02-12-2020 11:56am

Antares35 wrote: »

I find it's mostly aggression and impatience on the road that's the problem. Tailgating, overtaking when not appropriate etc. They should just have a basic manners test.

It doesn't really matter how you drive on our single carriageway roads, you are either going too slow and will be tailgated, or you are going too fast and will be held up by people who "can't drive". Personally I only get wound up by the 70km/h crew. The ones who will maintain the same speed and end up speeding through villages then crawling down the open road.

Dravokivich · 02-12-2020 12:31pm

tayto lover wrote: »

The problem as I see it is that many drivers on Irish roads have not done a test at all never mind a refresher.

That doesn't make much sense. So, because some people didn't do the test, everyone that did, has to redo it?

People don't drive horribly because they didn't do a test. They drive horribly because there is no real punitive action taken for poor standards and they are only concerned with getting themselves where ever they are going.

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

that doesn't mention who was responsible for those accidents.

If they want us to take road safety seriously, this is something that seriously needs to be addressed. They can easily be anonymised by referencing Vehicle A / Vehicle B and class of vehicles involved. Although I suspect it'll find quite a few accidents can be attributed to poor road design. Especially the exit of the port tunnel, when trucks are looking to change onto the M50 merge, while cars are looking to get onto the M1.

Antares35 · 02-12-2020 1:45pm

liamog wrote: »

It doesn't really matter how you drive on our single carriageway roads, you are either going too slow and will be tailgated, or you are going too fast and will be held up by people who "can't drive". Personally I only get wound up by the 70km/h crew. The ones who will maintain the same speed and end up speeding through villages then crawling down the open road.

Just because someone is tailgating doesn't mean you're driving too slow. I've often been tailgated at or beyond the speed limit!

ohnonotgmail · 02-12-2020 1:50pm

Dravokivich wrote: »

If they want us to take road safety seriously, this is something that seriously needs to be addressed. They can easily be anonymised by referencing Vehicle A / Vehicle B and class of vehicles involved. Although I suspect it'll find quite a few accidents can be attributed to poor road design. Especially the exit of the port tunnel, when trucks are looking to change onto the M50 merge, while cars are looking to get onto the M1.

they only place they can get that data from is insurance claims.

Dravokivich · 02-12-2020 1:57pm

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

they only place they can get that data from is insurance claims.

Not really. Insurance is about liability as in who is accountable for the money involved. It doesn't seek to actually declare responsibility. They don't have the authority to do that, nor would they want to.

ohnonotgmail · 02-12-2020 1:59pm

Dravokivich wrote: »

Not really. Insurance is about liability as in who is accountable for the money involved. It doesn't seek to actually declare responsibility. They don't have the authority to do that, nor would they want to.

liability generally follows responsibility.

Dravokivich · 02-12-2020 2:26pm

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

liability generally follows responsibility.

They don't have to be related. One could be liable without being responsible at all.

ohnonotgmail · 02-12-2020 2:28pm

Dravokivich wrote: »

They don't have to be related. One could be liable without being responsible at all.

hence "generally"

weedened · 02-12-2020 2:42pm

Genesis Bald Storekeeper wrote: »

Something like every 10 years. Nothing mad, just to see if you understand the rules of the road properly. The standard of driving out there is absolutely horrendous. No indicators, wrong lanes, no ideas at roundabouts, no mirrors, tailgating, full beams on in Broad daylight, no lights on in pitch darkness, driving around in fog or heavy rain with just drls on. Just some of the the stuff I've witnessed. If you're driving around in a 2 tonne metal box you should know how to drive it properly.

The problem I see with this kind of post,is you are saying that you are better than John or Jane doe on the road..How about booking a driving instuctor for an hour,and see what your driving is like,and let us know how you get on..I am not having a go at you here at all..We learn to pass the test in this country,driving comes second..

liamog · 02-12-2020 2:52pm

Antares35 wrote: »

Just because someone is tailgating doesn't mean you're driving too slow. I've often been tailgated at or beyond the speed limit!

Exactly, you are going too slow, the speed limit has no correlation to whether the person tailgating you thinks you are going fast enough.

Sam Russell · 03-12-2020 10:38pm

I remember a few years ago, they (either the AA or the RSA) ran tests in a number of car parks - not for driving, but eyesight. I think over 45% of those tested failed on the required standard.

Eyesight should be tested at every licence renewal. It could be as simple as attending the NDLS centre, and while being interviewed, being asked "Will you read those letters on the screen behind me please?" Simple to conduct, and cheap (free). [I do not wear glasses, and my eyesight is 6-6 or 20-20 - as tested by my opthalmic surgeon - i had a non eyesight problem] .

The next approach would be to fit every Gardai patrol vehicle with ANPR cameras to check vehicles in front and behind for Motor tax, NCT, Insurance, and improve enforcement.

A friend of mine in the UK was banned and he said local police actually check up on banned drivers in their area. Now that would help.

Re-testing drivers is a total waste but knocking those with serious driving offences back to novice learners sounds a good idea.

Should there be a driving licence refresher test?

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