C.I. Leisure Licence Price increase?

buffalo · 01-12-2020 1:17pm

Paul Kiernan wrote: »

Here's one -

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-7166305/Cyclist-Robert-Hazeldean-left-bankrupt-yoga-teacher-Gemma-Brushett-knocked-London.html

"ploughed into her at up to 15mph"

Christ, that must have been some impact!

I guess they measure speed differently in the UK compared to here, because I know whenever a 30kph (18mph) limit is mooted nobody is able to drive at such a slow speed.

mamax · 01-12-2020 1:38pm

Some of our members have said they are not renewing for 2021 because of the price, it was €20 a few years ago.
To get insurance they are taking out a triathalon ireland training licence with apparently the same type of cover for €25.
Some people have no loyalty to clubs and have spent a lot of 2020 cycling on their own so personally I feel CI have made a mistake on this one and should have dropped the price to encourage more to cycle.

Paddigol · 01-12-2020 2:00pm

lissard wrote: »

4k damages and 100k of fees illustrates just how rotten the legal system is.

It really doesn't. It shows what happens when two parties litigate for 4 years, one party engaging a team of professionals to present their case, the other deciding that legal expertise wasn't worth the outlay. Whereas he now seems to extol the virtue of the 'legal system' having belatedly decided to value the service of professionals.

Some people just want their 'day in court'.

What constitutes 'up to' £100k is also dubious given the rag that published the story. I presume he has the option of appealing, either the verdict or just the costs order.

Ultimately, people are entitled to sue, and people are entitled to chose whether to engage professional representation. AND, if they're still not satisfied, they're entitled (presumably) to appeal the decision to a higher court.

Again, I'd be sceptical of basing any opinion on the content of a click-bait, headline focussed rag like the Daily Mail which provides zero context of the amount of time spent on the case/ court appearances etc. I certainly wouldn't be holding this case up as evidence of a rotten legal system.

What it does demonstrate is the value of having insurance.

Roadtoad · 01-12-2020 2:16pm

Paul Kiernan wrote: »

Here's one -

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-7166305/Cyclist-Robert-Hazeldean-left-bankrupt-yoga-teacher-Gemma-Brushett-knocked-London.html

He has that more or less covered by a GoFundMe appeal. (61k GBP).

CramCycle · 01-12-2020 2:43pm

mamax wrote: »

Some of our members have said they are not renewing for 2021 because of the price, it was €20 a few years ago.
To get insurance they are taking out a triathalon ireland training licence with apparently the same type of cover for €25.
Some people have no loyalty to clubs and have spent a lot of 2020 cycling on their own so personally I feel CI have made a mistake on this one and should have dropped the price to encourage more to cycle.

That's quite decent, so long as you have no intention of doing any events its far better value if the T&Cs of the insurance are the same.

If you are planning events, it goes the other way almost instantly, as your TI insurance won't allow you entry to a CI event.

ednwireland · 01-12-2020 3:30pm

mamax wrote: »

Some of our members have said they are not renewing for 2021 because of the price, it was €20 a few years ago.
To get insurance they are taking out a triathalon ireland training licence with apparently the same type of cover for €25.
Some people have no loyalty to clubs and have spent a lot of 2020 cycling on their own so personally I feel CI have made a mistake on this one and should have dropped the price to encourage more to cycle.

totally agree. i suspect our own club membership will drop again this year it drops a few per cent every time the price goes up as people still cycle with their mates on a sunday morning club or no club. i dont think CI understand leisure cycling at all (guess most people go out and ride their bikes and dont care about clubs, sportives or "benefits" provided by cycling Ireland like.

they just see the CI membership as something they dont actually need as the price goes up.

Large bottle small glass · 01-12-2020 4:39pm

If I've read it right it's €60 for insurance for the year. For that you get
* Third Party cover
*Personal accident cover

In terms of TP cover, if it is necessary for cycling should I also get it for when I'm walking, running? For a cycling behaving reasonably(not cycling on footpaths, heeding lights etc is the TP risk worth insuring given the €500 excess?

In the real world given the "value" of personal injuries, almost irrespective of circumstances most motor insurers would be just delighted if you didn't claim against them in the event of an incident with an insured vehicle.

In how many likely accidents will cyclist be completed to blame and TP loss be over €560 and for cyclist not to be also injured? If cyclist is injured that "leverage" should be enough in most circumstance for TP claim to disappear.

As for the Personal accident cover, with an excess of €250, a limit of €2500 and a max loss of earning of 13 weeks @ €150 it really is a sh1t product.

Some of the worst insurances tend to be low cost add on ones. I remember reading a car hire personal accident cover while bored in an airport. It was designed to be cheap enough to add it on but had excesses and limits to make it unlikely only a tiny number would ever claim.

velo.2010 · 01-12-2020 5:20pm

NamelessPhil wrote: »

- In my opinion CI should separate leisure fees from Competition fees and vote on them individually.

There was a discussion on here about similar when the Leisure Licence went up in price a few years ago. It may have been brought up at the AGM but was not acted on. I would bring up this point in correspondance with C.I.

edit; Just found this from a discussion in 2017. Quote CheGuedara... "Was involved in an attempt to establish a leisure commission a number of years ago but it never really got off the ground for various reasons. Was definitely not helped by a provincial committee (Munster) led by a chairman at the time whose attitude was 'I don't know anything about leisure cycling and don't want to know anything about leisure cycling'. Verbatim quote from a CM AGM at the time."

The commision did eventually get off the ground in 2018, but if that attitude is still present today among senior provincial committee members, then the Leisure side of C.I. is still seen as the poor cousin to the racing side. A shame really.

For the record, I had a full competition licence and club memebership for several years. From 2015 to 2017, I didn't do much cycling but let both memberships effectively auto-renewal. I subsequently dropped both and took out the leisure license with the personal cover for training being the main appeal. Making it an added extra might appeal to some (keeping the cost of renewal down) but really only devalues the standard Leisure Licence.

velo.2010 · 01-12-2020 5:23pm

Large bottle small glass wrote: »

As for the Personal accident cover, with an excess of €250, a limit of €2500 and a max loss of earning of 13 weeks @ €150 it really is a sh1t product.

It'd been used by several Boardsies for physio/dental treatments and the like.

mamax · 01-12-2020 5:57pm

So what it boils down to for me is the leisure membership is worthless unless you are showing loyalty to a club, I already have personal accident cover so I think I'll give it a miss next year, really disapointed cycling ireland didn't reduce the price of all licences for 2021 seeing as most of 2020 was fecked up with covid restrictions.

CramCycle · 01-12-2020 6:10pm

A club mate got it after he crashed, covered his treatment, sick pay on top of his out of work pay. Not much but its better than nothing and sorted within a few days. Several clubs will not allow you on club spins without it as you could be exposing the club to liability for allowing non members out with a club organised event.

For those who are giving out, talk to the leisure commission, get involved and put a motion to CI for the next AGM to reduce it. I would recommend asking the justification for it, a split in the costs from the insurers etc in relation to leisure members as that is their only real cost, and there is a benefit to CI in regards funding to have as many people on the books as possible. A simple argument could be the Insurance cost plus an admin fee is what the license fee for leisure members should be, but make the case, ask them for the info ASAP and build it up over the year.

I could be wrong but my understanding is some posters here are involved with the leisure commission so that would be the route to bring it to the AGM but make sure you can justify it. It may sound like turkeys voting for Christmas but the truth is, most of those who turn up to vote at the AGM will want a justification greater than to reduce the hit to my pocket because they know that if you go that way CI will fold very quickly. I didn't like the info given at the AGM but no alternatives or other arguments other than we don't like that were put forward from memory.

MojoMaker · 01-12-2020 9:35pm

Did someone say above a TI training licence grants insurance cover for commuting by bike?

Mercian Pro · 01-12-2020 11:30pm

Hadn't seen this thread when I went to renew my membership a few hours ago. As a club member, CI or IVCA membership is mandatory so the only real choice was whether to pay the extra €10 or not. I had a number of accidents over the years, some of which invoved sucessfull claims against third parties and others where I ended up claiming against my medical insurance. The loss of earnings cover is irrelevant as I'm retired so I decided against paying the extra. A club mate who came down in the same incident as my last accident was less than impressed with both the personal accident cover and the loss of earning cover and eventually gave up on persuing a claim. I know it's only €10 but I can't really see much benefit if you already have medical insurance.

Wishbone Ash · 02-12-2020 12:03am

Mercian Pro wrote: »

... I can't really see much benefit if you already have medical insurance.

Does it cover for a claim taken by a third party. For example, if I caused another cyclist or a pedestrian to be injured?

Mercian Pro · 02-12-2020 3:08pm

Wishbone Ash wrote: »

Does it cover for a claim taken by a third pkarty. For example, if I caused another cyclist or a pedestrian to be injured?

As I understand it, third party cover is included in the basic membership fee of €50. However, this does not cover "Any injury or damage suffered by one participant caused by another participant during training activities". So it looks like a fellow club member could claim against your CI insurance only if they are an IVCA member and not a CI member.

smacl · 02-12-2020 4:30pm

cletus wrote: »

Maybe this is the wrong thread to ask this question, but can anybody lay out the advantages in paying a leisure cyclist membership to the CI?

I do most of my cycling solo or with one or two mates on occasion. If I'm planning on doing any events over the year I'll pick up a CI membership to reduce the faffing about with the one day license at the start of an event, which to be fair is usually minimal. I seem to remember seeing a couple of events which didn't offer one day licenses which would be a bigger issue.

Other reason that I'd buy a license is simply to support the major cycling advocacy group in the country. I spend a fair amount of time on the bike, enjoy cycling and am all for Ireland being a more cycle friendly country.

I suspect the majority of people who cycle regularly at this point aren't CI members, e.g. families cycling together, commuters who aren't club cyclists and casual non-club cyclists. CI seem to be missing a large part of their audience in this regard.

Mercian Pro · 02-12-2020 5:36pm

smacl wrote: »

Other reason that I'd buy a license is simply to support the major cycling advocacy group in the country.

I have no problem supporting CI on the basis of what they do for the sport of cycling but I certainly wouldn't regard them as "the major cycling advocacy group in the country". I know there is a brief section on their website dealing with advocacy and they contribute to the cost of Cyclist.ie employing a cycling officer but I'm not aware that they have ever commented on specific cycling infrastructure projects or argued for more funding for same. When I raised this with CI a number of years ago, I was told that it wouldn't be prudent to be critical of projects funded by the Dept of Transport when a substantial part of CI's income came from that source!

smacl · 02-12-2020 5:57pm

Mercian Pro wrote: »

I have no problem supporting CI on the basis of what they do for the sport of cycling but I certainly wouldn't regard them as "the major cycling advocacy group in the country". I know there is a brief section on their website dealing with advocacy and they contribute to the cost of Cyclist.ie employing a cycling officer but I'm not aware that they have ever commented on specific cycling infrastructure projects or argued for more funding for same. When I raised this with CI a number of years ago, I was told that it wouldn't be prudent to be critical of projects funded by the Dept of Transport when a substantial part of CI's income came from that source!

Interesting. Doesn't sound like there's much point in the CI membership for me so unless I'm planning on a bunch of sportives. I've used my own health insurance when I've needed it and amn't overly concerned about being sued by third parties. While I'm out cycling 4-6 times a week at the moment it is all leisure and mostly solo. Looks like I'd be better off joining cyclist.ie

cletus · 02-12-2020 6:02pm

Thanks for the responses to my specific question. I cycle solo about 80% of the time, the other 20% is done with, at most, two other people.

I'm not a member of a club, and I've never entered an organised cycling event of any kind.

It would seem CI membership/insurance has little to offer.

ChickenBalls · 03-12-2020 4:11pm

Does the leisure license cover zwift races?

eeeee · 03-12-2020 9:31pm

cletus wrote: »

Thanks for the responses to my specific question. I cycle solo about 80% of the time, the other 20% is done with, at most, two other people.

I'm not a member of a club, and I've never entered an organised cycling event of any kind.

It would seem CI membership/insurance has little to offer.

Covers you training on your own.

I had a very, very, very close call this eve on the bike on my commute this eve, I was glad of it if things had turned out differently.
(My commute is part of my training and I have a full competition license)

ednwireland · 03-12-2020 9:59pm

grrrrrrrr ive just paid our club affiliation and try and navigate the new club portal, cant see any club information everything seems to be wiped, honestly if this is CI idea of "improvement" . at this point hthey can take it and shove it where the sun doesnt shine it would be great if someone had tested it

nilhg · 03-12-2020 11:39pm

ednwireland wrote: »

grrrrrrrr ive just paid our club affiliation and try and navigate the new club portal, cant see any club information everything seems to be wiped, honestly if this is CI idea of "improvement" . at this point hthey can take it and shove it where the sun doesnt shine it would be great if someone had tested it

To be charitable there are a lot of teething troubles, some of them seem to stem from decisions made by Ci itself. We seem to be currently stuck in a loop whereby we need 6 members to renew before the officers can access the club management pages, but because there seems to be an error which CI insist the officers fix on the management pages no one can renew....

07Lapierre · 03-12-2020 11:54pm

eeeee wrote: »

Covers you training on your own.

I had a very, very, very close call this eve on the bike on my commute this eve, I was glad of it if things had turned out differently.
(My commute is part of my training and I have a full competition license)

Don’t think so. The insurance only covers you while participating in CI sanctioned events.

Edit: you are covered while training , but not sure commuting counts. http://www.cyclingireland.ie/page/membership

eeeee · 04-12-2020 12:02am

07Lapierre wrote: »

Don’t think so. The insurance only covers you while participating in CI sanctioned events.

Edit: you are covered while training , but not sure commuting counts. http://www.cyclingireland.ie/page/membership

My commute is part of my training

mamax · 04-12-2020 12:10am

nilhg wrote: »

To be charitable there are a lot of teething troubles, some of them seem to stem from decisions made by Ci itself. We seem to be currently stuck in a loop whereby we need 6 members to renew before the officers can access the club management pages, but because there seems to be an error which CI insist the officers fix on the management pages no one can renew....

We had the same issue, even though club officials had 2020 membership CI insisted we take out 2021 membership just to access the portal, I haven't bothered but the other officials have, you just need 3, chairman, sec and treasurer, you can throw anyone in there BTW just to access the system

07Lapierre · 04-12-2020 12:13am

eeeee wrote: »

My commute is part of my training

My understanding is.. any solo riding is “training” as long as your wearing club kit. If not wearing club kit, it’s just commuting.

nilhg · 04-12-2020 12:24am

mamax wrote: »

We had the same issue, even though club officials had 2020 membership CI insisted we take out 2021 membership just to access the portal, I haven't bothered but the other officials have, you just need 3, chairman, sec and treasurer, you can throw anyone in there BTW just to access the system

A few myself included got through one evening, the rest are getting stripe errors, the way to try and fix the stripe error is through the management pages.

I'm just hoping that enough people will complain and they'll let at least the one's with 2021 licences have access even if 6 haven't signed up yet. They say the new rules are to make sure clubs have at least 6 members paid up for 2021 but our club had 54 last year, we're hardly going to lose 48 members over the leisure price rise.

Weepsie · 04-12-2020 12:26am

07Lapierre wrote: »

My understanding is.. any solo riding is “training” as long as your wearing club kit. If not wearing club kit, it’s just commuting.

And for unaffiliated cyclists?

07Lapierre · 04-12-2020 12:30am

Weepsie wrote: »

And for unaffiliated cyclists?

Definitely not “training” if wearing club kit!

C.I. Leisure Licence Price increase?

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