Madeleine McCann

Toots · 26-10-2018 12:45pm

iamwhoiam wrote: »

For me its shows the disregard of the parents who chose to leave the children despite a three year old telling them that her brother cried and no one came .

Forget the risk of abduction in this case but the other risks they took are glaring .The risk of a child falling , having a seizure , vomiting , a fever , the risk of a child crying in fear after a dream , the risk of a child coughing and choking and no one came . Two doctors disregarding all of this to have dinner with mates .Shame on all of them .

Exactly! There's no way I'd leave my kids alone like that, TBH abduction would be the last thing on my mind, it would be more in case they woke and were frightened or took ill.

I think the most likely scenario is that something happened to her in the apartment and she died there, either she was sick or she fell out of bed or she got up and went out of the bedroom to look for her parents and came to harm somehow in the apartment. Her parents probably panicked and said she was abducted. I don't think they killed her, but they were extremely negligent and I they had to have known what they were doing was at the very least lousy parenting, if not child endangerment. I'd say they realised that if the authorities found out that they'd left 3 toddlers alone in an apartment while they buggered off for dinner, and one of them died while they were gone, they'd be looking at jail time, and quite possibly having their other 2 kids taken off them.

26-10-2018 12:59pm

Something Else

Toots wrote: »

Exactly! There's no way I'd leave my kids alone like that, TBH abduction would be the last thing on my mind, it would be more in case they woke and were frightened or took ill.

I think the most likely scenario is that something happened to her in the apartment and she died there, either she was sick or she fell out of bed or she got up and went out of the bedroom to look for her parents and came to harm somehow in the apartment. Her parents probably panicked and said she was abducted. I don't think they killed her, but they were extremely negligent and I they had to have known what they were doing was at the very least lousy parenting, if not child endangerment. I'd say they realised that if the authorities found out that they'd left 3 toddlers alone in an apartment while they buggered off for dinner, and one of them died while they were gone, they'd be looking at jail time, and quite possibly having their other 2 kids taken off them.

People defending the McCanns often ask about motive and that's exactly it.

An abduction makes you the parents that made a mistake and were unfortunate enough to be the victim of a sinister act. People empathize with that.

A child being left alone, tragically falling and dying is neglect. People have no sympathy for that.

Stage an abduction, act sad, hold your hand up for your honest mistake...

goat2 · 26-10-2018 1:31pm

She wandered out herself, something happened (car accident/paedo)

Purple Mountain wrote: »

Have we got a psychic in our midst?

No, But I think that if they did it, they would not be keeping it in the public eye, and hoping it would disappear off the press,

optimist16 · 26-10-2018 2:32pm

goat2 wrote: »

No, But I think that if they did it, they would not be keeping it in the public eye, and hoping it would disappear off the press,

I think it's the reverse and they and the powers that be want to keep it in the press. It is a ltd. company after all.

retro:electro · 26-10-2018 2:37pm

She wandered out herself, something happened (car accident/paedo)

I do understand why people are suspicious of them and as cold and detached I think they are, I just can’t bring myself to believe they harmed her. And if she had an accident and they covered it up, they’d want to be absolute psychopaths to have kept up the charade for so long. I do think the cadaver dog signalling in the room was odd, as is the fact she washed the teddy, and refusing DNA testing on the kids. Like I said earlier, a lot of strange decisions.. but I don’t know. I still think she was abducted.

optimist16 · 26-10-2018 2:43pm

I've read and watched too much to believe them. I did once, but sadly there's nothing can take away from what I learnt.

goat2 · 26-10-2018 4:15pm

She wandered out herself, something happened (car accident/paedo)

retro:electro wrote: »

I do understand why people are suspicious of them and as cold and detached I think they are, I just can’t bring myself to believe they harmed her. And if she had an accident and they covered it up, they’d want to be absolute psychopaths to have kept up the charade for so long. I do think the cadaver dog signalling in the room was odd, as is the fact she washed the teddy, and refusing DNA testing on the kids. Like I said earlier, a lot of strange decisions.. but I don’t know. I still think she was abducted.

Why were they being asked to have their children DNA tested, I had not heard of that,

retro:electro · 26-10-2018 4:31pm

She wandered out herself, something happened (car accident/paedo)

goat2 wrote: »

Why were they being asked to have their children DNA tested, I had not heard of that,

Sorry I don’t know why I wrote DNA testing lol! I was watching Making A Murderer and wrote that by mistake. I meant drug test!

Toots · 26-10-2018 4:31pm

retro:electro wrote: »

I do understand why people are suspicious of them and as cold and detached I think they are, I just can’t bring myself to believe they harmed her. And if she had an accident and they covered it up, they’d want to be absolute psychopaths to have kept up the charade for so long. I do think the cadaver dog signalling in the room was odd, as is the fact she washed the teddy, and refusing DNA testing on the kids. Like I said earlier, a lot of strange decisions.. but I don’t know. I still think she was abducted.

They could be absolute psychopaths, or they could be absolutely terrified of losing their other kids, and there's absolutely no way now they can do anything other than stick to the abduction story.

To me, the fact that she washed the teddy speaks volumes. If that was my child, I'd never wash anything like that, it'd be like erasing any traces of them.

I think in this case occam's razor is very applicable - the simplest explanation is usually the correct one. When you consider it, which is the more likely scenario; a three year old left unattended in a dark apartment either becomes ill or wakes and goes looking for her parents and has an accident (falls and hits her head on the tiled floor etc); or a mysterious abductor breaks into the apartment and spirits her away, without leaving any forensic evidence (hair, footprints, fingerprints etc) and without touching either of the younger sleeping children?

iamwhoiam · 26-10-2018 4:40pm

She wandered out herself, something happened (car accident/paedo)

retro:electro wrote: »

Sorry I don’t know why I wrote DNA testing lol! I was watching Making A Murderer and wrote that by mistake. I meant drug test!

My guess is they had given the kids sedatives . They wouldn't be the first to dose their kids with eg Phenergan or its like . I know first hand of medical personnel who use it to sedate kids on long haul flights .
The fact they got all three kids in bed and asleep by 7:30 . The twins slept through the chaos and commotion that night in their cots . They were lifted out of cots and moved to another apartment without a peep
The fact that Kate herself actually checked the twins to see if the were breathing .
If Madeleine was taken and carried out of that apartment then the fact she didn't scream blue holey murder
All these lead me to believe the children were somehow sedated .

marklazarcovic · 26-10-2018 5:44pm

Didn't kate say she had thoughts of Maddie's perfect little genitals being ripped,or destroyed.. said it in her book... Extremely disturbing imo..what parent says this to the public,what's the purpose ..

optimist16 · 26-10-2018 6:38pm

Have a look at Dr Katherine Gasper's statement and somewhere out there is the transcribed police interview of the man she mentions. So many shocking things to it all. Really too many to mention.

fritzelly · 26-10-2018 8:28pm

marklazarcovic wrote: »

Didn't kate say she had thoughts of Maddie's perfect little genitals being ripped,or destroyed.. said it in her book... Extremely disturbing imo..what parent says this to the public,what's the purpose ..

A very weird thing to say about any of your children, I know she's a doctor and it would be par for the course to be clinical when talking about things but this was her own daughter

smelly sock · 26-10-2018 11:26pm

She wandered out herself, something happened (car accident/paedo)

iamwhoiam wrote: »

My guess is they had given the kids sedatives . They wouldn't be the first to dose their kids with eg Phenergan or its like . I know first hand of medical personnel who use it to sedate kids on long haul flights .
The fact they got all three kids in bed and asleep by 7:30 . The twins slept through the chaos and commotion that night in their cots . They were lifted out of cots and moved to another apartment without a peep
The fact that Kate herself actually checked the twins to see if the were breathing .
If Madeleine was taken and carried out of that apartment then the fact she didn't scream blue holey murder
All these lead me to believe the children were somehow sedated .

But for them to carry on this act for so long. I think that would impossible. Unless of course only one of them knows what happened.

iamwhoiam · 27-10-2018 8:20am

She wandered out herself, something happened (car accident/paedo)

smelly sock wrote: »

But for them to carry on this act for so long. I think that would impossible. Unless of course only one of them knows what happened.

I was only really guessing they were sedated not that they did anything else . I think they could blank out facts like that maybe ? Yes I agree with you that carrying on if they had harmed her would be very improbable .
Personally I think it was an inside job as the pattern of leaving the kids was established over a few nights . A car could pull up to the front door ( the one on far side away from the Tapas ) and take Madeleine and be gone within minutes . Then within 10 minutes be in the dark and isolated countryside north of PdaL before Madeleine was even missed

Sardonicat · 27-10-2018 8:51am

Toots wrote: »

iamwhoiam wrote: »

For me its shows the disregard of the parents who chose to leave the children despite a three year old telling them that her brother cried and no one came .

Forget the risk of abduction in this case but the other risks they took are glaring .The risk of a child falling , having a seizure , vomiting , a fever , the risk of a child crying in fear after a dream , the risk of a child coughing and choking and no one came . Two doctors disregarding all of this to have dinner with mates .Shame on all of them .

Exactly! There's no way I'd leave my kids alone like that, TBH abduction would be the last thing on my mind, it would be more in case they woke and were frightened or took ill.

I think the most likely scenario is that something happened to her in the apartment and she died there, either she was sick or she fell out of bed or she got up and went out of the bedroom to look for her parents and came to harm somehow in the apartment. Her parents probably panicked and said she was abducted. I don't think they killed her, but they were extremely negligent and I they had to have known what they were doing was at the very least lousy parenting, if not child endangerment. I'd say they realised that if the authorities found out that they'd left 3 toddlers alone in an apartment while they buggered off for dinner, and one of them died while they were gone, they'd be looking at jail time, and quite possibly having their other 2 kids taken off them.

But how is claiming your child was abducted any less implicating than an accidental death? In both instances the child was neglected.

The only way I think the Mccanns could be directly involved ( they are most definitely guilty of child neglect IMO, shame on them) is if 1 or both of them was knowingly allowing someone access their children while they were out, hence Kate'so cry of "They've taken her ". TBH I think that's a stretch too far.

The Mccanns look and act guilty because they feel guilty for abandoning their very young family while they went out to have fun. This resulted in one of their children being snatched most likely murdered after enduring God knows what.

goat2 · 27-10-2018 7:30pm

She wandered out herself, something happened (car accident/paedo)

Sardonicat wrote: »

But how is claiming your child was abducted any less implicating than an accidental death? In both instances the child was neglected.

The only way I think the Mccanns could be directly involved ( they are most definitely guilty of child neglect IMO, shame on them) is if 1 or both of them was knowingly allowing someone access their children while they were out, hence Kate'so cry of "They've taken her ". TBH I think that's a stretch too far.

The Mccanns look and act guilty because they feel guilty for abandoning their very young family while they went out to have fun. This resulted in one of their children being snatched most likely murdered after enduring God knows what.

I am shure that the McCanns wake up every day regretting ever having let their children alone, find it hard to forgive themselves for that.
But nobody gives anyone the permission to take their children, and I really do feel sorry for them, I am a parent, and know that if one of mine were missing, I would have to keep trying to find my child,
Their life must be miserable, unbearable, their thoughts hard

limnam · 27-10-2018 8:03pm

goat2 wrote: »

I am shure that the McCanns wake up every day regretting ever having let their children alone, find it hard to forgive themselves for that.
But nobody gives anyone the permission to take their children, and I really do feel sorry for them, I am a parent, and know that if one of mine were missing, I would have to keep trying to find my child,
Their life must be miserable, unbearable, their thoughts hard

People still believe that she was abducted?

RLY.

Sweet.Science · 30-10-2018 10:18am

I remember hearing to one of their 1st interviews and the Dad compared it to being a student and your current account going into overdraft

How they arent locked up i'll never know . Oh i do actually, police incompetence and the fact they are doctors.

But they have to live knowing what they done to their daughter . At least they are mortgage free now after paying the house off with the fundraising money.

Steve F · 30-10-2018 10:59am

limnam wrote: »

People still believe that she was abducted?

RLY.

They do yeah
An abductor breaks into the apartment without leaving any forensic evidence hair, footprints, fingerprints.
Think about it.Has there ever been a modern day crime without any evidence left by the perpetrator before?

Pete Moss · 30-10-2018 11:04am

There is an excellent podcast by Those Conspiracy Guys (they're on Spotify as well as Pod apps) in which they cover the entire events of this case and explore the various theories on what happened. Unfortunately, the hosts of the podcast can be a bit immature, so it wouldn't be for those who are overly sensitive, but they do detail the events very well.

Just to forewarn you, it's over 2 hours long and can be quite depressing at times, so if you're feeling delicate after the bank holiday, you may want to give it a miss.

smelly sock · 30-10-2018 10:49pm

She wandered out herself, something happened (car accident/paedo)

Sweet.Science wrote: »

I remember hearing to one of their 1st interviews and the Dad compared it to being a student and your current account going into overdraft

How they arent locked up i'll never know . Oh i do actually, police incompetence and the fact they are doctors.

But they have to live knowing what they done to their daughter . At least they are mortgage free now after paying the house off with the fundraising money.

Have you a link to that interview. I dont believe it to be honest.

limnam · 30-10-2018 10:53pm

smelly sock wrote: »

Have you a link to that interview. I dont believe it to be honest.

If you search for sky interview with Ian Woods

This was what was said

IW: I think that everyone has just been incredibly impressed with you as a couple and how you’ve dealt with this. There was a period after a week or so where you looked as if you were almost broken and who could not understand that? And then there seemed to be a sort of a strength come from somewhere. Is that a fair point? Is that what happened and what brought it about?

KMcC: I think that’s definitely true, isn’t it [looks at Gerry and sighs]

GMcC: Certainly, you know, at the end of that first week there was so much emotion that we had spent and we actually had a period where we discussed this openly that we felt devoid, completely devoid of emotion. The analogy that I like to use is a bit like when we were students and you’d got to your overdraft limit and you’d gone beyond it and there was just nothing left in the tank. Also, I think, physically and mentally we were shattered but, you know, as we gradually got more on an even keel and we started to get back into the black and we’d also worked tirelessly behind the scenes to put support mechanisms in place including our legal team. The response with the fund which was really driven by offers rather than us thinking we needed it. And once these were in place then it helped us to focus on what we really needed to focus on.

smelly sock · 30-10-2018 11:00pm

She wandered out herself, something happened (car accident/paedo)

limnam wrote: »

If you search for sky interview with Ian Woods

This was what was said

IW: I think that everyone has just been incredibly impressed with you as a couple and how you’ve dealt with this. There was a period after a week or so where you looked as if you were almost broken and who could not understand that? And then there seemed to be a sort of a strength come from somewhere. Is that a fair point? Is that what happened and what brought it about?

KMcC: I think that’s definitely true, isn’t it [looks at Gerry and sighs]

GMcC: Certainly, you know, at the end of that first week there was so much emotion that we had spent and we actually had a period where we discussed this openly that we felt devoid, completely devoid of emotion. The analogy that I like to use is a bit like when we were students and you’d got to your overdraft limit and you’d gone beyond it and there was just nothing left in the tank. Also, I think, physically and mentally we were shattered but, you know, as we gradually got more on an even keel and we started to get back into the black and we’d also worked tirelessly behind the scenes to put support mechanisms in place including our legal team. The response with the fund which was really driven by offers rather than us thinking we needed it. And once these were in place then it helped us to focus on what we really needed to focus on.

Ffs. Thanks.

That is certainly odd.

fritzelly · 30-10-2018 11:01pm

Bit far out from the previous comment and the context - tho Gerry always comes as across calculating in everything he says

smelly sock · 30-10-2018 11:04pm

She wandered out herself, something happened (car accident/paedo)

fritzelly wrote: »

Bit far out from the previous comment and the context - tho Gerry always comes as across calculating in everything he says

True enough. I think he is referencing the fact that the fund for the search was running out perhaps. I wouldnt think he was comparing his daughters alledged kidnapping to not having a few quid for a pint when he was a student.

limnam · 30-10-2018 11:10pm

smelly sock wrote: »

True enough. I think he is referencing the fact that the fund for the search was running out perhaps. I wouldnt think he was comparing his daughters alledged kidnapping to not having a few quid for a pint when he was a student.

What he's referencing is his emotional bank balance.

The "fund" had just been setup and was pulling in money from all over the shop. That they went on the p|ss away hiring the biggest bunch of clowns you wouldn't hire to find a lost dog.

He's calculated because he has to be

Pauliedragon · 30-10-2018 11:26pm

Steve F wrote: »

They do yeah
An abductor breaks into the apartment without leaving any forensic evidence hair, footprints, fingerprints.
Think about it.Has there ever been a modern day crime without any evidence left by the perpetrator before?

Criminals can be one step ahead of the police. I was held up twice at gunpoint and the offenders left no fingerprints, DNA, cars were stolen and untraceable. It's not as hard as people think to leave no evidence.

limnam · 30-10-2018 11:33pm

Pauliedragon wrote: »

Criminals can be one step ahead of the police. I was held up twice at gunpoint and the offenders left no fingerprints, DNA, cars were stolen and untraceable. It's not as hard as people think to leave no evidence.

Did you go on to change your statement to the guards?
Did any of your friends lie to the guards about where you/they were the night someone held you up?
Did the guards go to find your DNA on the gun in the back of the stolen car?

The lack of evidence of the abductor is not the problem in this case....

optimist16 · 31-10-2018 3:53pm

A lie detector may not be 100% accurate but the conclusion drawn from them not being willing to take one may well be.

iamwhoiam · 31-10-2018 4:09pm

She wandered out herself, something happened (car accident/paedo)

smelly sock wrote: »

True enough. I think he is referencing the fact that the fund for the search was running out perhaps. I wouldnt think he was comparing his daughters alledged kidnapping to not having a few quid for a pint when he was a student.

If you look at it he says " in the first week" just before those words . So before there was even a fund

optimist16 · 31-10-2018 4:17pm

www.youtube.com/watch?v=ML-gTcKDKrM

"probably mainly for legal expenditure"

Lady Spangles · 31-10-2018 4:22pm

Although I haven't seriously delved into the case of Madeleine McCann, I can't escape the feeling her parents are being turned into scapegoats in this case. Most parents, at some point, have to leave their kids alone. And, as I understand, they were close by and checking in frequently. I just don't think that makes them murderers.

iamwhoiam · 31-10-2018 5:02pm

She wandered out herself, something happened (car accident/paedo)

Lady Spangles wrote: »

Although I haven't seriously delved into the case of Madeleine McCann, I can't escape the feeling her parents are being turned into scapegoats in this case. Most parents, at some point, have to leave their kids alone. And, as I understand, they were close by and checking in frequently. I just don't think that makes them murderers.

At some point is not when all three are under four years old . And they were not the close at all really. They couldn't see or hear the children .

limnam · 31-10-2018 5:13pm

Lady Spangles wrote: »

. And, as I understand, they were close by and checking in frequently. I just don't think that makes them murderers.

It doesn't.

The fact they ate near by has no baring on anything imo.

It's most likely she was already dead at that point anyway

optimist16 · 31-10-2018 5:18pm

limnam wrote: »

It doesn't.

The fact they ate near by has no baring on anything imo.

It's most likely she was already dead at that point anyway

A planned expose in the restaurant after the pact....that'd take a while.

Steve F · 31-10-2018 5:25pm

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-rv0vQueIWo

Pretty sure people have seen this before but here it is anyway

Babooshka · 31-10-2018 5:26pm

retro:electro wrote: »

I don’t think Kate and Gerry had anything to do with it. I think the most obvious answer is what likely happened. Someone had been watching their behaviour on previous nights and acted on opportunity when they knew the kids were alone. I don’t think Kate and Gerry are particularly nice people, in fact I don’t like them at all and they are partly responsible for what happened to their daughter. But I just don’t think they’re capable of what some people are accusing them of. It’s clear as day that Kate is tormented ever since and she has grief written all over her face. I think they’re cold and detached and odd and have made a lot of strange decisions but I don’t think they’re murderers.

Exactly this. I find them strange but it doesn't mean they killed their child or are covering for anyone who did, or anyone who took her. there's a lot of oddness about this case and I don't understand how they felt it was acceptable having no one watching the kids, if she'd even woke to get a drink of water or go to the bathroom there was every danger of her getting hold of something or falling and that fear alone would have me eating in the apartment and sitting on my balcony to listen out for my kids.

Babooshka · 31-10-2018 5:30pm

marklazarcovic wrote: »

Didn't kate say she had thoughts of Maddie's perfect little genitals being ripped,or destroyed.. said it in her book... Extremely disturbing imo..what parent says this to the public,what's the purpose ..

What I don't understand is how her book publisher didn't tell her to change the wording of that, really bad imagery to conjure up. Sure any parent who is out of their mind with worry about what's happened to their kid would have horrible imagery running through their head, but to state she had horrible imagery running through her head would have sufficed, bad bad choice there. Still don't think it makes her guilty of anything, just weird.

Deusexmachina · 31-10-2018 5:30pm

Some utter nonsense on this thread. Those poor parents have suffered unmeasurably by the loss of their little girl.
Their torture has been made unimaginably worse by callous, ignorant and vindictive commentary online.

Stupid unfounded conspiracy theories which have no basis in fact. Complete tripe. I really despair.

The child was abducted. This is the conclusion of years of investigation and it is also the only theory that makes any sense at all.

optimist16 · 31-10-2018 5:33pm

I'm assuming first theory with the majority is that she was overdosed on sedatives.

I get a bit lost at the amount of pedophiles in the area (Clement Freud). How so many strings were pulled by the powers that be in the UK. How Gasper's statement was not handed to the Portuguese. Even Kate's "They've taken her" could be construed that she knew Madeleine was being visited.

Just as there are people here who see their innocence, I see they were/are complicit.

Deusexmachina · 31-10-2018 5:40pm

So, exactly how did it happen? Why did they kill their girl. What evidence is there for sedation? How did they manage to hide the body under the glare 24/7 of the international media. How come nobody has ever come forward or admitted anything?

iamwhoiam · 31-10-2018 6:10pm

She wandered out herself, something happened (car accident/paedo)

Deusexmachina wrote: »

So, exactly how did it happen? Why did they kill their girl. What evidence is there for sedation? How did they manage to hide the body under the glare 24/7 of the international media. How come nobody has ever come forward or admitted anything?

Wouldn't we all like to know the answers

limnam · 31-10-2018 6:19pm

Deusexmachina wrote: »

So, exactly how did it happen? Why did they kill their girl. What evidence is there for sedation? How did they manage to hide the body under the glare 24/7 of the international media. How come nobody has ever come forward or admitted anything?

You assume there was a reason to kill her. They may not have meant to.

There's no evidence of sedation.

But why you prevent your other kids from been tested? Especially when your "team" are putting forward all kids may have been sedated by the abductor.

This was an attempt to explain why kids even been moved didn't wake up.

Then why agree to having the same kids tested months later?

They were not under the glare until afterwards....

Why would anyone come forward and "admit" something they're attempting to get away with ?

That's generally not how it works...

Deusexmachina · 31-10-2018 7:02pm

limnam wrote: »

You assume there was a reason to kill her. They not have meant to.

There's no evidence of sedation.

But why you prevent your other kids from been tested? Especially when your "team" are putting forward all kids may have been sedated by the abductor.

This was an attempt to explain why kids even been moved didn't wake up.

Then why agree to having the same kids tested months later?

They were not under the glare until afterwards....

Why would anyone come forward and "admit" something they're attempting to get away with ?

That's generally not how it works...

Always the same with conspiracy theories. Lots of punching holes in the official version. But never ever offering an alternative scenario that has any substance whatsoever.

limnam · 31-10-2018 8:23pm

Deusexmachina wrote: »

Always the same with conspiracy theories. Lots of punching holes in the official version. But never ever offering an alternative scenario that has any substance whatsoever.

The only thing that lacks substance in this case is _evidence_ the child was abducted.

You seem to know little to nothing about it, so not really worth getting it into with you much further.

Deusexmachina · 31-10-2018 8:36pm

limnam wrote: »

The only thing that lacks substance in this case is _evidence_ the child was abducted.

You seem to know little to nothing about it, so not really worth getting it into with you much further.

What's your theory, O Wise One?

professore · 31-10-2018 8:42pm

Steve F wrote: »

Something that I always thought strange was the video showing Gerry allegedly laughing and joking a few days after the disappearance
Just didn't look or feel right

My mum was laughing and joking at my dad's funeral. Its called shock. She fell apart a few days later.

Alrigghtythen · 31-10-2018 8:42pm

A kidnapper climbed in and out the window even though the door was open. And nobody heard a thing.

31-10-2018 8:44pm

smelly sock wrote: »

Being a parent i dont think any mother or father could knowingly cover it up and act it out for all these years.

I would say the child was snatched. Any of the missing kids cases is heart breaking.

Being a parent also I couldn’t leave my children alone in a hotel room (foreign country or otherwise) and go out for a meal.

Madeleine McCann

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