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Man shoots dead neighbour in Co. Mayo

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12357…19

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    #122
    STB.
    Registered Users Posts: 5,380 ✭✭✭STB.


    Some amount of waffle and amateur detectives in this thread.


    Both farmers were known to each other and on friendly terms. The deceased (whose name has been released) lived 3 miles up the road and stopped to make a social call after earlier attending a picket at the Dawn Meats plant in Ballyhaunis.

    The man in his 80s thought it was intruders on his property and fired what where intended to be warning shots.

    A tragedy.

    As reported in the Irish Times.


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    #123
    FishOnABike
    Registered Users Posts: 4,354 ✭✭✭FishOnABike


    jimgoose wrote: »
    Er, yes. If you live in Goleen, Co. Waterford is 100 miles away. If you live in Youghal, you can throw a blaa over the county bounds. You've never left Cork.

    That would be a shocking waste of a blaa though!


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    #124
    washman3
    Registered Users Posts: 3,646 ✭✭✭washman3


    Deleted User wrote: »
    its shows that old idiots shouldn't have guns


    It also shows that 'old idiots' should'nt have to live in total fear in isolated rural Ireland while brutal roaming gangs travel around Ireland with relative impunity.:mad:


    RIP to the poor victim and condolences to his family.


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    #125
    GoneHome
    Registered Users Posts: 1,783 ✭✭✭GoneHome


    STB. wrote: »
    The deceased (whose name has been released) lived 3 miles up the road and stopped to make a social call after earlier attending a picket at the Dawn Meats plant in Ballyhaunis.

    He stopped to make a social call at midnight :confused: Jeez if I heard a car stopping outside my house (very rural area) at midnight I'd certainly be alarmed. Who is god's name would think of calling to visit their neighbour at that hour of the night.


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    #126
    Sheep breeder
    Registered Users Posts: 1,961 ✭✭✭Sheep breeder


    jam_mac_jam wrote: »
    How many Garda stations should there be? who pays for all this. I have sympathy but realistically they can't be everywhere.

    To much of Garda time goes trying to keep the drug dealers from shooting one another and no interest from Leo veruca in rural Ireland.


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    #127
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    washman3 wrote: »
    It also shows that 'old idiots' should'nt have to live in total fear in isolated rural Ireland while brutal roaming gangs travel around Ireland with relative impunity.:mad:


    RIP to the poor victim and condolences to his family.

    i don't know how many times it needs repeating

    if you fire warning shots to kill you are a murderer

    if you somehow actually meant to warn and hit someone, you are incompetent and cannot have access to firearms

    nothing in the above post from you changes a single thing about those two statements.

    its absolutely chronic that anyone is trying to turn this into a "poor rural ireland" thread.

    im from rural ireland. i dont want it filled with armed senile paranoics thank you very much


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    #128
    punisher5112
    Registered Users Posts: 24,647 ✭✭✭✭punisher5112


    My grandad was similar years ago where a car stopped outside with the engine running at around 2am....

    He did ring the Gardai but couldn't sleep till they arrived and sat waiting with his shotgun....

    It turned out to be his neighbour 3 houses up the road but he always said he was worried he would have to use the gun....

    Does seem an odd time to be calling in to be honest.


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    #129
    Portsalon
    Closed Accounts Posts: 702 ✭✭✭Portsalon


    AulWan wrote: »

    What current burglaries?

    Exactly.

    Hence my proposal that you and I should write to the editor to complain.


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    #130
    AulWan
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,653 ✭✭✭AulWan


    Portsalon wrote: »
    Exactly.

    Hence my proposal that you and I should write to the editor to complain.

    Knock yourself out. (No pun intended).


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    #131
    Xenji
    Registered Users Posts: 11,505 ✭✭✭✭Xenji


    It is strange how locally in the press and radio people from the area are saying how tragic an accident it was and how much of a shame it occurred, from the parish priest to locals to councilors, nobody is villainizing the perpetrator, they know the best about both the concerned and what was and has been going on in the area, not like the majority uneducated rubbish that has been spouted in this thread with no knowledge of the people or the area.


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    #132
    AulWan
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,653 ✭✭✭AulWan


    Xenji wrote: »
    It is strange how locally in the press and radio people from the area are saying how tragic an accident it was and how much of a shame it occurred, from the parish priest to locals to councilors, nobody is villainizing the perpetrator, they know the best about both the concerned and what was and has been going on in the area, not like the majority uneducated rubbish that has been spouted in this thread with no knowledge of the people or the area.

    The area has nothing to do with it - nor does the fact that its rural. There are elderly people living alone in the middle of Finglas, in Galway or Wexford ... all over this country.

    This man took out a gun, loaded it, and shot at someone, and now that someone is dead.

    Lets not diminish that in your urgent need to sympathise with the man who shot him.


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    #133
    Xenji
    Registered Users Posts: 11,505 ✭✭✭✭Xenji


    AulWan wrote: »
    The area has nothing to do with it - nor does the fact that its rural. There are elderly people living alone in the middle of Finglas, in Galway or Wexford ... all over this country.

    This man took out a gun, loaded it, and shot at someone, and now that someone is dead.

    Lets not diminish that in your urgent need to sympathise with the man who shot him.

    Urgent need, hmmm its been hours since I lasted posted on this thread and from being from the county and having family in a similar situation not far from the area and work with people nearby I have had time to take things in and get more of the story and listen to actual reporters from the county and listen to interviews with locals, again all of which have shown sympathy for both involved.

    It seems like it is people here unfamiliar with the isolated rural life of bachelor farmers in a county that has been rife with incursions and robberies making statements and assumptions that they have no experience, but hey a good bandwagon for some is one that cannot be passed up.


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    #134
    walshb
    Registered Users Posts: 54,594 ✭✭✭✭walshb


    GoneHome wrote: »
    He stopped to make a social call at midnight :confused: Jeez if I heard a car stopping outside my house (very rural area) at midnight I'd certainly be alarmed. Who is god's name would think of calling to visit their neighbour at that hour of the night.

    Yes, lot of odd questions need answering..

    But still doesn’t alter the fact that man is dead due to another man recklessly discharging a lethal weapon, because it appears he maybe didn’t like the “look and feel” of something...


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    #135
    AulWan
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,653 ✭✭✭AulWan


    Xenji wrote: »
    It seems like it is people here unfamiliar with the isolated rural life of bachelor farmers in a county

    The isolated rural life of bachelor farmers is not a justification for pulling out a loaded firearm and shooting at will.


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    #136
    STB.
    Registered Users Posts: 5,380 ✭✭✭STB.


    GoneHome wrote: »
    He stopped to make a social call at midnight :confused: Jeez if I heard a car stopping outside my house (very rural area) at midnight I'd certainly be alarmed. Who is god's name would think of calling to visit their neighbour at that hour of the night.


    Who knows what hours the man in his 80s kept. Late night TV? He lived alone. Perhaps the man drove by and seeing lights on, called in to give an update on the protest that night at Dawn Meats. Both were active farmers.

    Like I said. A tragedy.


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    #137
    STB.
    Registered Users Posts: 5,380 ✭✭✭STB.


    Deleted User wrote: »
    i don't know how many times it needs repeating

    if you fire warning shots to kill you are a murderer

    if you somehow actually meant to warn and hit someone, you are incompetent and cannot have access to firearms


    Under the Defence and the Dwelling Act 2011, latitude is given to homeowners protecting their property. In doing so weight is given to the right to use reasonable force, where a person believed the other entered the dwelling as a trespasser, especially in the context of committing a crime.


    If you’re using the force in defence of yourself or your home and it’s not reasonable then it’s manslaughter, not murder.


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    #138
    Muahahaha
    Registered Users Posts: 19,610 ✭✭✭✭Muahahaha


    walshb wrote: »
    Yes, lot of odd questions need answering..

    But still doesn’t alter the fact that man is dead due to another man recklessly discharging a lethal weapon, because it appears he maybe didn’t like the “look and feel” of something...

    Thats the crux of the problem here, the farmer just shot his weapon so he could ask questions later. His so called warning shot was direct towards the other farmers car and killed him. It doesnt matter who you are, you cant just go firing shots off without knowing a jot about the situation. It could just as easily been a Garda he shot at or a priest or a doctor on a late night house call or just someone broken down. The victim wasn't even on his property and he's out with a gun firing shots directly at him. While it is a tragedy it is also a crime yet it doesnt seem like its being treated as one.


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    #139
    Roger Hassenforder
    Closed Accounts Posts: 8,555 ✭✭✭Roger Hassenforder


    Great to see so many ballistics experts out!


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    #140
    Allinall
    Registered Users Posts: 6,540 ✭✭✭Allinall


    AulWan wrote: »
    The isolated rural life of bachelor farmers is not a justification for pulling out a loaded firearm and shooting at will.

    No one, anywhere, said it was.


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    #141
    Mena Mitty
    Registered Users Posts: 5,934 ✭✭✭Mena Mitty


    GoneHome wrote: »
    He stopped to make a social call at midnight :confused: Jeez if I heard a car stopping outside my house (very rural area) at midnight I'd certainly be alarmed. Who is god's name would think of calling to visit their neighbour at that hour of the night.

    The man coming out of the house with the gun would need a few seconds to aclimatize to the dark and the deceased would have been able to see the shooter with the gun and have time to either duck or shout out his name. Strange.

    Do we know if the deceased got as far as the front door or was he shot come distance from the house.

    RIP to the deceased.


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    #142
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    STB. wrote: »
    Under the Defence and the Dwelling Act 2011, latitude is given to homeowners protecting their property. In doing so weight is given to the right to use reasonable force, where a person believed the other entered the dwelling as a trespasser, especially in the context of committing a crime.


    If you’re using the force in defence of yourself or your home and it’s not reasonable then it’s manslaughter, not murder.


    thanks for that

    would any of it apply in the case of unreasonable force?

    does anything about this case suggest reasonable force?

    is posting that excerpt above totally irrelevant?

    lads an actual rural man is dead for the most stupid reason and ye want to have some bizarre justification ceremony

    theres more than a tinge of yank gunowner off the thinness of the arguments


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    #143
    KaneToad
    Registered Users Posts: 3,161 ✭✭✭KaneToad


    washman3 wrote: »
    It also shows that 'old idiots' should'nt have to live in total fear in isolated rural Ireland while brutal roaming gangs travel around Ireland with relative impunity.:mad:


    RIP to the poor victim and condolences to his family.

    The likelihood of coming to physical harm from a gang in rural Ireland is virtually zero.

    The level of fear is not commensurate with the level of threat. Those most afraid of physical harm are those who are least likely to be the victim of it.


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    #144
    martingriff
    Registered Users Posts: 10,689 ✭✭✭✭martingriff


    LuasSimon wrote: »
    It doesn't matter if the man was 80 or 18 , if you are living on your own and theres a threat of 3 or 4 travelling burlars armed with knives or crowbars coming to beat or torture you for money plenty will shoot first and ask questions later, many in rural Ireland cant or wont take any more.

    If that is not an advertisement for not checking on your elderly neighbor I don't know what is!!!!!!!!!!!!!


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    #145
    AulWan
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,653 ✭✭✭AulWan


    Allinall wrote: »
    No one, anywhere, said it was.

    Maybe not directly.


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    #146
    Muahahaha
    Registered Users Posts: 19,610 ✭✭✭✭Muahahaha


    STB. wrote: »
    Under the Defence and the Dwelling Act 2011, latitude is given to homeowners protecting their property. In doing so weight is given to the right to use reasonable force, where a person believed the other entered the dwelling as a trespasser, especially in the context of committing a crime.


    If you’re using the force in defence of yourself or your home and it’s not reasonable then it’s manslaughter, not murder.

    AFAIK that legislation is about someone entering the actual house, it doesnt allow people to shoot someone outside on the road as this victim was. That could lead to an absurd situation where you could just shoot a door to door salesman and say you thought he was going to burgle the house.

    The other side is the test of reasonable force, shooting an unarmed man dead would not be considered reasonable. If he had a weapon then all bets are off but this victim wasnt armed and wasn't even on the property, he was outside on the road in his car. The force used by the 80 year old could not be considered to be in anyway reasonable.

    I do feel some sympathy with the 80 year old here but with gun ownership comes great responsibility and his actions clearly breached his responsibilities under the law.


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    #147
    GoneHome
    Registered Users Posts: 1,783 ✭✭✭GoneHome


    STB. wrote: »
    Who knows what hours the man in his 80s kept. Late night TV? He lived alone. Perhaps the man drove by and seeing lights on, called in to give an update on the protest that night at Dawn Meats. Both were active farmers.

    But it obviously wasn't a regular occurrence to have people calling to visit at midnight, if it had been a regular thing why did he decide to start firing shots on this occasion?


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    #148
    STB.
    Registered Users Posts: 5,380 ✭✭✭STB.


    Deleted User wrote: »
    thanks for that

    would any of it apply in the case of unreasonable force?

    does anything about this case suggest reasonable force?

    is posting that excerpt above totally irrelevant?

    lads an actual rural man is dead for the most stupid reason and ye want to have some bizarre justification ceremony

    theres more than a tinge of yank gunowner off the thinness of the arguments

    Hold on a second snoop. I am not passing judgement or condoning the use of firearms by farmers living alone.

    I was responding to your claim that "if you fire warning shots to kill you are a murderer". I am simply pointing out that the law changed in 2011 with regard to property and dwellings.

    Reasonable force is not weighted on its own. Its the "belief" that goes with it snoop. The "belief" that someone had entered his property late at night as a trespasser and that he felt in danger in his own home. I don't think he intentionally set out to "murder" someone. (1st case that used it)

    Its a tragedy. One man is dead and the other is facing criminal proceedings. Lets leave that to the courts.
    GoneHome wrote: »
    But it obviously wasn't a regular occurrence to have people calling to visit at midnight, if it had been a regular thing why did he decide to start firing shots on this occasion?

    We don't know gonehome. One mans good intentions and one mans fear ?


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    #149
    martingriff
    Registered Users Posts: 10,689 ✭✭✭✭martingriff


    grogi wrote: »
    Should be found guilty of man slaughter. There should be no jail time.

    I agree given his age I say so.


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    #150
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    STB. wrote: »
    Hold on a second snoop. I am not passing judgement or condoning the use of firearms by farmers living alone.

    I was responding to your claim that "if you fire warning shots to kill you are a murderer". I am simply pointing out that the law changed in 2011 with regard to dwellings.

    Reasonable force is not weighted on its own. Its the "belief" that goes with it snoop. The "belief" that someone had entered his property late at night as a trespasser and that be felt in danger in his own home. I don't think he intentionally set out to "murder" someone. (1st case that used it)

    Its a tragedy. One man is dead and the other is facing criminal proceedings.

    fair comeback, and im sorry i jumped back at you as if it was then just another post from the "what could the poor man do?" brigade.

    in that case id say that the belief itself has to be weighed as reasonable or not, in which instance the more shame should accrue anyone tonight taking the chance to further stoke the kind of paranoia that has an 80yr old hanging round his door firing shots at neighbours

    id also point out that a warning shot that kills is no warning shot, which was somewhat my original point.

    the man shouldnt have had access to a lethal weapon, its as clear as day.


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    #151
    TheRiverman
    Registered Users Posts: 6,056 ✭✭✭TheRiverman


    BorneTobyWilde wrote: »
    Hardly normal for that guy to be on his property at midnight. Must be more to it, why was he there. If it was a normal routine time to call the guy would have expected him, not be jumping to conclusions .

    It was reported on the RTE News this evening the man that was shot had been attending a farmer's protest at the Dawn Meats factory in Ballyhaunis,so what possibly happened is that as a friend of the old man,he called to check on him on his way home which was at a later time due to the protest at the meat factory.


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