FE1 Exam Thread (Read 1st post!) NOTE: YOU MAY SWAP EXAM GRIDS

rightytighty · 04-04-2020 11:47am

channing90 wrote: »

Anyone with any idea on any online courses to do during this time to upskill that would be useful for getting a traineeship etc

The law society run a free online course around this time every year, a certificate of sorts. Last year it was media and entertainment law. It usually starts around May I think.

XyzLawyer123 · 04-04-2020 4:24pm

Coulter97 wrote: »

That's what I was thinking. Firms always need trainees. And chances are by 2023 the economy will be up and roaring again.

Anyone who manages to get themselves into a firm over the next short while will do fine as they will come out qualified in 3 years when things should be ok again.

Conversely, it is a terrible time to be qualifying as you can expect retention rates will plummet. Firms won’t need many NQs. Similarly, massive pay cuts are expected. Cuts of 20% have already been implemented in some large firms and this is phase 1.

It is absolutely true firms will always need trainees. However, not necessarily in the number or over the timescale previously anticipated.

leavingcert17 · 05-04-2020 1:09pm

Do we know any date for results yet? I’m looking for a traineeship currently hoping to start the December hybrid course? Any advice on how to get a traineeship outside of Dublin, in particular the west of Ireland ? I’ve been emailing firms but no luck

Lallers96 · 05-04-2020 2:34pm

Hi, sorry if this is the wrong thread but I'm new to boards.ie.

I studied Corporate Law in NUIG and graduated last November. I was taking time off to save money and now I'm seriously thinking of taking the FE1 exams in Autumn, after having time off to come down from the stress of college. I just have a couple of questions that I'd like to ask people who have FE1 exam knowledge, or are in a similar situation to me.

From my research I gather that the standard required of candidates is higher in these FE1 exams, compared to college. I have ordered and read the exam papers for the last 3 years and while the questions seem similarly worded and detailed but there is 5 questions out of 8 to be answered in 3 hours - so I assume that I am correct that the standard to get high marks is higher than college? Especially given the pass rate is 50%, rather than 40%. (Hopefully I won't have to worry about that)

Secondly, and I am sure that nobody can give me a concrete answer since nobody can be certain in these uncertain times, but I imagine that the FE1 exams will go ahead as per previous years in October 2020? What are your thoughts?

Third question is just out of curiosity as I want to plan to pass all 8 exams by March next year, when do you get your results should you take the exams in October?

And finally I want to give a short background into my situation and ask if you guys feel I am prepared or not, and if I need to take action to become prepared then any advice would be greatly appreciated.

I feel like I am ready now after taking time off college to tackle these exams. I am working (well I will be again, once this COVID pandemic passes) part-time to pay bills, and I have past exam papers & examiners reports for the last 3 years (I find repeating old questions the best form of study - practice makes perfect). I think that I will take 4 exams in my first sitting, Tort, Constitutional, EU Law, and Company Law - as I studied those in college and feel like 5 would be too much in one go.

I have the EU Legislation book that you can bring with you to the exam. I have Tully's book for Tort Law that I bought back in 2015 in 1st year (not the recommended reading, but a supplementary one). I have nothing for Constitutional Law, unless an auld copy of the constitution counts

. I have 2 Nutshell books (condensed down study books) for EU Law and Company Law respectively.

- Should I buy more books? The recommended books come to almost €1,000 for those 4 subjects I mentioned

I *could* afford them but it would cost me a month's wages. Here's a more detailed look at the prices:
- McMahon (Tort recommended reading) is €228 cheapest
- Kelly (Constitutional) is €263 cheapest
- Craig & DeBurca (EU) is €46
- Bloomsbury Professionals Companies Act 2014 is €84
- Courtney (Company's recommended reading) is €218

So that adds up to €839. Honest answer, is it worth the money? Could you manage these exams without all these books, could I get by with the books I already have?

I will be buying the Bloomsbury Act book, and probably as well to get Craig & DeBurca since it's cheap but the rest is extremely expensive. I remember doing just fine in college without any books, as I couldn't afford them to be honest, but as I mentioned the standard is surely higher and maybe I do need them. What's your advice? Are the 4 subjects I've chosen the best, or is there anyone who can advise me on the best course of action?

If anyone could point me in the right direction that would be great. I don't know anyone who is taking the FE1 exams, or even has in the past so I came here hoping for some direction.

Jeremiah25 · 05-04-2020 3:11pm

Lallers96 wrote: »

Hi, sorry if this is the wrong thread but I'm new to boards.ie.

I studied Corporate Law in NUIG and graduated last November. I was taking time off to save money and now I'm seriously thinking of taking the FE1 exams in Autumn, after having time off to come down from the stress of college. I just have a couple of questions that I'd like to ask people who have FE1 exam knowledge, or are in a similar situation to me.

From my research I gather that the standard required of candidates is higher in these FE1 exams, compared to college. I have ordered and read the exam papers for the last 3 years and while the questions seem similarly worded and detailed but there is 5 questions out of 8 to be answered in 3 hours - so I assume that I am correct that the standard to get high marks is higher than college? Especially given the pass rate is 50%, rather than 40%. (Hopefully I won't have to worry about that)

Secondly, and I am sure that nobody can give me a concrete answer since nobody can be certain in these uncertain times, but I imagine that the FE1 exams will go ahead as per previous years in October 2020? What are your thoughts?

Third question is just out of curiosity as I want to plan to pass all 8 exams by March next year, when do you get your results should you take the exams in October?

And finally I want to give a short background into my situation and ask if you guys feel I am prepared or not, and if I need to take action to become prepared then any advice would be greatly appreciated.

I feel like I am ready now after taking time off college to tackle these exams. I am working (well I will be again, once this COVID pandemic passes) part-time to pay bills, and I have past exam papers & examiners reports for the last 3 years (I find repeating old questions the best form of study - practice makes perfect). I think that I will take 4 exams in my first sitting, Tort, Constitutional, EU Law, and Company Law - as I studied those in college and feel like 5 would be too much in one go.

I have the EU Legislation book that you can bring with you to the exam. I have Tully's book for Tort Law that I bought back in 2015 in 1st year (not the recommended reading, but a supplementary one). I have nothing for Constitutional Law, unless an auld copy of the constitution counts . I have 2 Nutshell books (condensed down study books) for EU Law and Company Law respectively.

- Should I buy more books? The recommended books come to almost €1,000 for those 4 subjects I mentioned I *could* afford them but it would cost me a month's wages. Here's a more detailed look at the prices:
- McMahon (Tort recommended reading) is €228 cheapest
- Kelly (Constitutional) is €263 cheapest
- Craig & DeBurca (EU) is €46
- Bloomsbury Professionals Companies Act 2014 is €84
- Courtney (Company's recommended reading) is €218

So that adds up to €839. Honest answer, is it worth the money? Could you manage these exams without all these books, could I get by with the books I already have?

I will be buying the Bloomsbury Act book, and probably as well to get Craig & DeBurca since it's cheap but the rest is extremely expensive. I remember doing just fine in college without any books, as I couldn't afford them to be honest, but as I mentioned the standard is surely higher and maybe I do need them. What's your advice? Are the 4 subjects I've chosen the best, or is there anyone who can advise me on the best course of action?

If anyone could point me in the right direction that would be great. I don't know anyone who is taking the FE1 exams, or even has in the past so I came here hoping for some direction.

Welcome to the madness...

1. Yep standard is higher, 5 questions to be answered in 3 hours. Some examiners require a higher degree of detail (are harder markers) than others, It is very often the case that numerous topics are combined in one question so a broad knowledge of the subject is requried. Not like the old college exams where you could learn off 3 topics and get through the exam!

2. Impossible to tell given the current climate. If I was to guess, fingers crossed, all this will have died down somewhat by then.

3. Results generally come out 6 weeks after the last exam has taken place so there's ample time to plan/prepare for the next round.

4. Having a law degree is a great start. In general, most people tend to sit Cons. & EU in separate sittings due to the volume of material in both. However, I set both last sitting so it is certainly doable. It's all personal preference and the topics you find most interesting.

Regarding study material, I can only offer advice on what I found to be useful. However, you can certainly get through the exams without any of the books you have mentioned above. I tended to stick to redoing past papers.

There are manuals for each subject which you can pick up on done deal/adverts which offer much better bang for your buck imo.Legislation such as the Constitution/EU/Companies Act is very useful to have in the exam.

Hope this is of some help! Any more questions feel free!

ArthurDayne · 05-04-2020 3:48pm

Lallers96 wrote: »

Hi, sorry if this is the wrong thread but I'm new to boards.ie.

I studied Corporate Law in NUIG and graduated last November. I was taking time off to save money and now I'm seriously thinking of taking the FE1 exams in Autumn, after having time off to come down from the stress of college. I just have a couple of questions that I'd like to ask people who have FE1 exam knowledge, or are in a similar situation to me.

From my research I gather that the standard required of candidates is higher in these FE1 exams, compared to college. I have ordered and read the exam papers for the last 3 years and while the questions seem similarly worded and detailed but there is 5 questions out of 8 to be answered in 3 hours - so I assume that I am correct that the standard to get high marks is higher than college? Especially given the pass rate is 50%, rather than 40%. (Hopefully I won't have to worry about that)

Secondly, and I am sure that nobody can give me a concrete answer since nobody can be certain in these uncertain times, but I imagine that the FE1 exams will go ahead as per previous years in October 2020? What are your thoughts?

Third question is just out of curiosity as I want to plan to pass all 8 exams by March next year, when do you get your results should you take the exams in October?

And finally I want to give a short background into my situation and ask if you guys feel I am prepared or not, and if I need to take action to become prepared then any advice would be greatly appreciated.

I feel like I am ready now after taking time off college to tackle these exams. I am working (well I will be again, once this COVID pandemic passes) part-time to pay bills, and I have past exam papers & examiners reports for the last 3 years (I find repeating old questions the best form of study - practice makes perfect). I think that I will take 4 exams in my first sitting, Tort, Constitutional, EU Law, and Company Law - as I studied those in college and feel like 5 would be too much in one go.

I have the EU Legislation book that you can bring with you to the exam. I have Tully's book for Tort Law that I bought back in 2015 in 1st year (not the recommended reading, but a supplementary one). I have nothing for Constitutional Law, unless an auld copy of the constitution counts . I have 2 Nutshell books (condensed down study books) for EU Law and Company Law respectively.

- Should I buy more books? The recommended books come to almost €1,000 for those 4 subjects I mentioned I *could* afford them but it would cost me a month's wages. Here's a more detailed look at the prices:
- McMahon (Tort recommended reading) is €228 cheapest
- Kelly (Constitutional) is €263 cheapest
- Craig & DeBurca (EU) is €46
- Bloomsbury Professionals Companies Act 2014 is €84
- Courtney (Company's recommended reading) is €218

So that adds up to €839. Honest answer, is it worth the money? Could you manage these exams without all these books, could I get by with the books I already have?

I will be buying the Bloomsbury Act book, and probably as well to get Craig & DeBurca since it's cheap but the rest is extremely expensive. I remember doing just fine in college without any books, as I couldn't afford them to be honest, but as I mentioned the standard is surely higher and maybe I do need them. What's your advice? Are the 4 subjects I've chosen the best, or is there anyone who can advise me on the best course of action?

If anyone could point me in the right direction that would be great. I don't know anyone who is taking the FE1 exams, or even has in the past so I came here hoping for some direction.

Most of your questions have been answered above, though on the “standard” question I would actually say that the standard is lower than that in college in terms of the level of detail required. What makes the FE1s harder isn’t so much the standard but the volume (i.e. memory retention) and the time constraints. The questions are generally fairly straightforward (in terms of the legal principles being reasonably uncomplicated), and curveballs often repeat every few sittings. Absolutely do not fork out that much for books. Get your hands on the manuals and fill in any gaps in your understanding with our good friend Google.

The trick with FE1s is not to to overthink them. People go into crazy levels of academic detail, case law bulk and memory retention techniques when really there are three things you need : the manuals; the past papers (and model answers); and the examiner reports. Forget all the €200+ recommended reading books. If you pick them up cheap somewhere, fine, but I passed my FE1s purely on those three things I mentioned, with a little delving on Google.

Make condensed notes of the manuals (takes longer than you think, but you have the time and it will make study later much easier) — hell, there is feck all else to be at right now so you could make the most of the quarantine and get stuck into that task now. Then take a look at the past papers going back say 5 years or so — what could you answer? What are the little curveballs you aren’t sure of? Identify the gaps in your knowledge and fill them in. The read the examiner reports, see what recurring themes they cover — e.g. on Cy-près questions the examiner often points out that students fail to mention / skip the first stage of identifying a valid charitable purpose as specified under the Act.

By taking a heavily past paper based approach, you will be cutting out swathes of superfluous detail that — even if it’s good to have a knowledge of and to understand — is simply not necessary for the purposes of memorising and making it harder to retain the fundamental bits which generally is all these exams cover.

iamanengine · 05-04-2020 3:56pm

Lallers96 wrote: »

- Should I buy more books? The recommended books come to almost €1,000 for those 4 subjects I mentioned I *could* afford them but it would cost me a month's wages. Here's a more detailed look at the prices:
- McMahon (Tort recommended reading) is €228 cheapest
- Kelly (Constitutional) is €263 cheapest
- Craig & DeBurca (EU) is €46
- Bloomsbury Professionals Companies Act 2014 is €84
- Courtney (Company's recommended reading) is €218

So that adds up to €839. Honest answer, is it worth the money? Could you manage these exams without all these books, could I get by with the books I already have?

I will be buying the Bloomsbury Act book, and probably as well to get Craig & DeBurca since it's cheap but the rest is extremely expensive. I remember doing just fine in college without any books, as I couldn't afford them to be honest, but as I mentioned the standard is surely higher and maybe I do need them. What's your advice? Are the 4 subjects I've chosen the best, or is there anyone who can advise me on the best course of action?

If anyone could point me in the right direction that would be great. I don't know anyone who is taking the FE1 exams, or even has in the past so I came here hoping for some direction.

Buy the manuals of one of the colleges off adverts. I found city colleges manuals to be really helpful when studying for the exams

Lallers96 · 05-04-2020 4:07pm

Thanks guys for all the advice, I really appreciate it. It seems like the best course of action is to buy the manuals off someone else. Saves me a ton of money, thank you all!

I'm assuming buying the most recent ones would be best? They seem to be priced at €50 each, does that sound right?

nmurphy1441 · 05-04-2020 7:35pm

Studying away EU myself....

How do people approach the case notes? Are there specific ones to learn off? Have they ever been repeated a few sittings later?

iamanengine · 05-04-2020 9:04pm

Lallers96 wrote: »

Thanks guys for all the advice, I really appreciate it. It seems like the best course of action is to buy the manuals off someone else. Saves me a ton of money, thank you all!

I'm assuming buying the most recent ones would be best? They seem to be priced at €50 each, does that sound right?

The more recent the better. There is a number of topics with important 2018/2019 cases so if you have an older manual you will be missing out on marks straight off the bat through no fault of your own.

€50 for a second hand manual is reasonable enough I think

nmurphy1441 wrote: »

Studying away EU myself....

How do people approach the case notes? Are there specific ones to learn off? Have they ever been repeated a few sittings later?

My method is to avoid the case note completely. I did the case note for Constitutional mind you, but I think EU is predictable enough that you don't need it, and it adds a lot of extra work. That said, the case note saved me for Constitutional, but that exam is a lot less predictable which makes it more important to prepare for it, imo.

lawDani · 06-04-2020 11:07am

Lallers96 wrote: »

Thanks guys for all the advice, I really appreciate it. It seems like the best course of action is to buy the manuals off someone else. Saves me a ton of money, thank you all!

I'm assuming buying the most recent ones would be best? They seem to be priced at €50 each, does that sound right?

That’s about right I think I paid 40 ish. Adverts have some and it would be good to get some sample answers to as mentioned above.

The best course of study to take I find is condensed notes from manuals along with the sample answers .

Welcome and good luck

Townton · 06-04-2020 12:02pm

Hello all. I have done 7 of the 8 exams. Deliberately haven't sat the last one because I don't want the time limit of your finishing point to when you enter blackhall to start counting down. Though there is a time limit that I havnt yet reached in which to sit the last exam. Reasons in a V good job atm in the UK good pay and very transferable. I missed the fe1 changes that came in recently and I am pretty ignorant of what that entails. Main question from the time I sitt the last exam how long does one now have to enter blackhall. It used to be five years but I had heard that has been increased to seven. If anyone with info on this could let me know for sure would be much appreciated

Hamerzan Sickles · 06-04-2020 4:29pm

Townton wrote: »

Hello all. I have done 7 of the 8 exams. Deliberately haven't sat the last one because I don't want the time limit of your finishing point to when you enter blackhall to start counting down. Though there is a time limit that I havnt yet reached in which to sit the last exam. Reasons in a V good job atm in the UK good pay and very transferable. I missed the fe1 changes that came in recently and I am pretty ignorant of what that entails. Main question from the time I sitt the last exam how long does one now have to enter blackhall. It used to be five years but I had heard that has been increased to seven. If anyone with info on this could let me know for sure would be much appreciated

Yeah, seven years. But don't trust the word of a random person on boards.ie, actually consult the law society website for peace of mind.

scooby321 · 08-04-2020 10:28am

I've been trying to contact the Law Society to no avail. Does anybody have any idea if the results for the exams that were sat will still be out the usual c.7 weeks from the last Friday or if they are also being postponed?

mydogwentroof · 08-04-2020 11:15am

scooby321 wrote: »

I've been trying to contact the Law Society to no avail. Does anybody have any idea if the results for the exams that were sat will still be out the usual c.7 weeks from the last Friday or if they are also being postponed?

Hopefully the same as always - given that tort was called off perhaps earlier?

rightytighty · 08-04-2020 12:55pm

scooby321 wrote: »

I've been trying to contact the Law Society to no avail. Does anybody have any idea if the results for the exams that were sat will still be out the usual c.7 weeks from the last Friday or if they are also being postponed?

I’m expecting them to be the same tbh

Breacnua · 08-04-2020 6:10pm

Random Question:

I signed up to a course today, the lecturer is chewing gum alot, pausing, blowing bubbles at times even, it is grating on me so much I don't know can I listen to the person.... am I just a moan bag or is it unprofessional ?

Any opinions welcome

Mod
Sorry, such discussion of lecturers not for this forum.

Breacnua · 08-04-2020 7:11pm

Breacnua wrote: »

Random Question:

I signed up to a course today, the lecturer is chewing gum alot, pausing, blowing bubbles at times even, it is grating on me so much I don't know can I listen to the person.... am I just a moan bag or is it unprofessional ?

Any opinions welcome

Mod
Sorry, such discussion of lecturers not for this forum.
Closed

Ok I never identified person , college , even gender

jewels652 · 08-04-2020 7:19pm

Breacnua wrote: »

Ok I never identified person , college , even gender

It is unprofessional iop

JCreaghy · 10-04-2020 4:23pm

Looks like our resits won't be happening earlier than October. Junior Certificate cancelled and Leaving Certificate postponed until Late July/ early August.

HappyKitten62 · 10-04-2020 5:31pm

JCreaghy wrote: »

Looks like our resits won't be happening earlier than October. Junior Certificate cancelled and Leaving Certificate postponed until Late July/ early August.

I’d say they’ll happen same time as leaving cert. it will all be sorted.

Breacnua · 10-04-2020 9:04pm

HappyKitten62 wrote: »

I’d say they’ll happen same time as leaving cert. it will all be sorted.

I agree

Will be on in August

channing90 · 11-04-2020 11:55am

Advice anyone:

I have a 2;1 undergrad in law and I have 6 fe1s done to date and no traineeship, with this impending economic crisis and massive recession would I be better doing a masters in September or would I just try to get working anywhere at all even if it means for very low pay to get experience and take any job until this ends, don’t want to waste money doing a masters unless it’s really necessary and if anyone would recommend a masters, thanks in advance.

lawstudentirl · 11-04-2020 12:24pm

channing90 wrote: »

Advice anyone:

I have a 2;1 undergrad in law and I have 6 fe1s done to date and no traineeship, with this impending economic crisis and massive recession would I be better doing a masters in September or would I just try to get working anywhere at all even if it means for very low pay to get experience and take any job until this ends, don’t want to waste money doing a masters unless it’s really necessary and if anyone would recommend a masters, thanks in advance.

I would say that you’re much better off getting experience. A masters is great if you’re interested in doing one, but in my experience firms don’t take much notice of whether you have one or not. Most trainees don’t.

JCreaghy · 11-04-2020 12:29pm

channing90 wrote: »

Advice anyone:

I have a 2;1 undergrad in law and I have 6 fe1s done to date and no traineeship, with this impending economic crisis and massive recession would I be better doing a masters in September or would I just try to get working anywhere at all even if it means for very low pay to get experience and take any job until this ends, don’t want to waste money doing a masters unless it’s really necessary and if anyone would recommend a masters, thanks in advance.

If you have 6 FE1s done, I personally think you should just finish them. I have a masters in IP and IT law. Once you have the masters done, if a specialised one, you may restrict yourself of future employment. That's what I did because I wanted my next job to relate to that particular area I studied because I just spent a year of your life and a lot of money studying for it.

At the end of the day it's your decision, I personally wish I started the FE1s sooner instead of feeling like I'm having a quarter life crisis trying to finish exams and look for a training contract. At least when you finish your last two exams you can just apply everywhere. Best of luck anyway!

starfishxxo · 11-04-2020 9:36pm

channing90 wrote: »

Advice anyone:

I have a 2;1 undergrad in law and I have 6 fe1s done to date and no traineeship, with this impending economic crisis and massive recession would I be better doing a masters in September or would I just try to get working anywhere at all even if it means for very low pay to get experience and take any job until this ends, don’t want to waste money doing a masters unless it’s really necessary and if anyone would recommend a masters, thanks in advance.

If you're not currently working in a legal or career relevant position then, given a degree of uncertainty at the moment, perhaps no harm in applying to Masters programmes if that is something you're interested in. In my experience, fees aren't due until close to your start date so would keep your options open!

jewels652 · 12-04-2020 11:05am

I am in a similar position 6 fe1s passed and no traineeship my plan was to start applying after I sat my last two in March but with everything that’s going on I doubt firms will be taking new trainees for a while. This means that there is no chance of starting in Blackhall this September if I pass my last two.

channing90 · 12-04-2020 1:42pm

jewels652 wrote: »

I am in a similar position 6 fe1s passed and no traineeship my plan was to start applying after I sat my last two in March but with everything that’s going on I doubt firms will be taking new trainees for a while. This means that there is no chance of starting in Blackhall this September if I pass my last two.

Yeah pretty much the same as you so, was going applying big time in the summer, all I am doing now is farming atm not relevant to the legal world, think I’ll just try to get working ASAP and go from there, what’s your plan now?

ahhhhhFE1s · 12-04-2020 1:56pm

Ya look I am similar enough position, having sat 7 FE1s and no training contract, was aiming to get TC outside of Dublin in the next year and now laid off from my paralegal position.. Not ideal but think everyone is worried, TC or not, got to focus on that the economy will eventually bounce back and maybe just push out the time line in your head a bit more.

In terms of masters, I would agree you'd be better off just taking any experience, have done a few unpaid internships myself so I would set the pay expectation low if you don't have much experience already, harsh but look it will be awhile yet before firms even contemplate taking someone on so just focus on figuring where you would like to work and try not worry would be my two cents.

jewels652 · 12-04-2020 4:01pm

channing90 wrote: »

Yeah pretty much the same as you so, was going applying big time in the summer, all I am doing now is farming atm not relevant to the legal world, think I’ll just try to get working ASAP and go from there, what’s your plan now?

I have no plan now. I don’t have a job and there is no point applying anywhere else I don’t think anyone is hiring unless you are a doctor or a nurse. I feel in limbo tbh

I had a job in a law firm but I quit last year because I was doing a masters and sitting fe1s at the same time now I regret leaving the job.

FE1 Exam Thread (Read 1st post!) NOTE: YOU MAY SWAP EXAM GRIDS

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