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FTP - Functional Threshold Power....how big is yours!!

124678

Comments

  • Closed Accounts Posts: 7,454 ✭✭✭hf4z6sqo7vjngi


    big mce wrote: »
    Thanks for this. When would be a good time to test, as I would assume the closer to Barcelona would be better as this value would be changing all the time as your getting fitter (hopefully!) throughout the season, or are you continously testing, going on long rides using this figure and sussing how you feel?

    Test now presuming your not coming off a heavy week. There should be no real need to retest but this is where the long bikes comes into play and listening to the body. If you are starting to feel like steady effort is easy then you may need to retest.

    Alternatively get someone to buy you a power meter for your birthday/Xmas :)


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,584 ✭✭✭✭tunney


    Test now presuming your not coming off a heavy week. There should be no real need to retest but this is where the long bikes comes into play and listening to the body. If you are starting to feel like steady effort is easy then you may need to retest.

    Alternatively get someone to buy you a power meter for your birthday/Xmas :)

    In trained individuals LTHR won't change over time I believe.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 7,454 ✭✭✭hf4z6sqo7vjngi


    tunney wrote: »
    In trained individuals LTHR won't change over time I believe.

    Yeah my understanding also, more thinking of someone who is untrained it could significantly change, I am assuming bigmce is not new to this hence there should be no need for a retest.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,359 ✭✭✭peter kern


    big mce wrote: »
    So in summary, Do all out 5+20 tt and take LTHR from that, then lose tunney, i mean tummy and spend €1000 on gear. Big ask I think!:)

    no i did not say this, but cant disagree on the 2nd part of your summery ;-) ;-) when tunney got skinny he got fast ;-)


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 428 ✭✭big mce


    peter kern wrote: »
    no i did not say this, but cant disagree on the 2nd part of your summery ;-) ;-) when tunney got skinny he got fast ;-)
    Jaysus you wouldn't want to be sensitive about your weight around here. How much weight did you lose Tunney?:eek:


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,075 Mod ✭✭✭✭BTH


    big mce wrote: »
    Jaysus you wouldn't want to be sensitive about your weight around here. How much weight did you lose Tunney?:eek:

    More interested in how much he's put on since!!! :D


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 428 ✭✭big mce


    4.gif

    Something like this??:D


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 548 ✭✭✭Nwm2


    User|Starting FTP|Current FTP|Watts/kg|Target FTP|Target Watts/kg|Test|Unit
    Jackyback|284watts|284watts|4.17|325watts|5.00|T20+T20*0.95|Power2Max PM
    NWM2|285watts|305watts|3.65|310watts|3.7|T5+T20*0.95|Powertap SL+
    pgibbo|232watts|260watts|3.56|300watts|4.35|T5+T20*0.95|Power2Max PM
    twonpelota|250 watts|250 watts|3.2|300watts|4.4|T5+T20*0.95|SRM
    Fazz|255 watts|270.75 watts|3.99|300 watts|4.4|T5+T20*0.95|Computrainer
    Nerraw|216 watts|216 watts|3.33|280 watts|4.3|T5+T20*0.95|Tacx Flow
    shotgunmcos|318 watts|325 watts|4.23|330watts|4.4|T5+T20*0.95|Tacx Flow
    RedB|230 watts|230 watts|2.55|290 watts|3.5|T5+T20*0.95|Tacx Flow
    BennyMul| 253 watts |253 watts |3.4|290watts|4|T5+T20*0.95|Powertap SL2+
    Bobblehead_jr|345 watts|345 watts|4.9|390 watts|5.6|T5+T20*0.95| iBike iPro
    Macanri|237 watts|237 watts|3.22|?280watts|4.0|T5+T20*0.95|Tacx Flow T2200
    Bambaata|322 watts|322 watts|4.17|340?watts|4.75|T5+T20*0.95|Power2Max PM
    dx22|239 watts|239 watts|3.07|300watts|4.28|T5+T20*0.95|Tacx Flow T2200



    Slowly getting there. About 10 watts up on last test, plus I've lost a kg or more. Training has been going very well, and I was properly rested for this test (last time I started at 10:40PM, having come home from the pool and wasn't feeling strong, so the real gain is probably less than 10 watts). I also got a bike fit since the last test.

    I'm still quite low on W/kg, I'm about 83kg. I'm aiming to drop another kg at least, not sure about trying to go below that.

    Training recently has been mixtures of three quarters FTP work (eg 3 x 15min at 95% FTP, 2 x 20 at 95% FTP) and one quarter Vo2max work (eg 5x5min at 110-115% FTP). Mainly on the turbo, will start adding longer rides now - on the road bike.

    Next test will be an outdoors one, ideally in a TT, and hopefully I'll get the few watts bump from the switch to outdoors.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,112 ✭✭✭Bambaata


    Well done Nwm2. Anything in the right direction is a good thing!


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,359 ✭✭✭peter kern


    http://forum.slowtwitch.com/gforum.cgi?post=3869944;sb=post_latest_reply;so=ASC;forum_view=forum_view_collapsed;;page=unread#unread

    I wasnt going to write it but sometimes the stuff comes into your hand ..... ;-) maybe it should have gone to which powermeter to buy ;)

    I guess at the end of the day you might understand why darren smith and brett sutton manage to produce top results without power .....
    a good coach with a brain is most likely as effective and a 'powermeter, for all 3 diciplines

    and in a way sutton uses the same argument rapp makes about tss for powermeter saying that powermeter are unless for triathlon. after you did a hard swim session from which you are tired etc etc.
    Sometimes he is right in my mind, sometimes I dont agree ( but I understand why he says so) as it can be a great tool for some.

    All Iam trying to say is powermeter are fine and defo better than Hr but they are not the magic clue to make you a good athlete. and use them wisely if you love reading the numbers but never shut off your brain dodnt be a slave of them.
    do you really need them some v few yes , most not . you can learn in other ways.
    I hope it helps those a bit who feel they have to buy a powermeter
    and gives those who have one. ideas to use them wiser and dodnt be to fixed on the numbers.


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 7,454 ✭✭✭hf4z6sqo7vjngi


    Rappstars post in that thread is very good.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,584 ✭✭✭✭tunney


    big mce wrote: »
    Jaysus you wouldn't want to be sensitive about your weight around here. How much weight did you lose Tunney?:eek:
    More interested in how much he's put on since!!! :D


    For the first few years in triathlon I raced at 12st, with a goal of getting to 11st 6.

    2007 I'd have creeped under 11st 6
    2008 I went to 10st 4 and ran like I never ran before. Not too robust though.
    2009 10st 8, still ran well but much more robust
    2010 10st 8, still going well
    2011 12st 4 for IM DE
    2012 Presently 11st 10


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,584 ✭✭✭✭tunney


    peter kern wrote: »
    http://forum.slowtwitch.com/gforum.cgi?post=3869944;sb=post_latest_reply;so=ASC;forum_view=forum_view_collapsed;;page=unread#unread

    I wasnt going to write it but sometimes the stuff comes into your hand ..... ;-) maybe it should have gone to which powermeter to buy ;)

    I guess at the end of the day you might understand why darren smith and brett sutton manage to produce top results without power .....
    a good coach with a brain is most likely as effective and a 'powermeter, for all 3 diciplines

    and in a way sutton uses the same argument rapp makes about tss for powermeter saying that powermeter are unless for triathlon. after you did a hard swim session from which you are tired etc etc.
    Sometimes he is right in my mind, sometimes I dont agree ( but I understand why he says so) as it can be a great tool for some.

    All Iam trying to say is powermeter are fine and defo better than Hr but they are not the magic clue to make you a good athlete. and use them wisely if you love reading the numbers but never shut off your brain dodnt be a slave of them.
    do you really need them some v few yes , most not . you can learn in other ways.
    I hope it helps those a bit who feel they have to buy a powermeter
    and gives those who have one. ideas to use them wiser and dodnt be to fixed on the numbers.

    I would agree where. TSS ATL/CTL are not fantasic - not just because of the swimming and running but also because of life. A ATL/CTL/TSB of XYZ means one thing when all you do is ride. XYZ when you are doing an 80 hour work week with 3 kids and a wife is a completely different thing.

    Most people feel they HAVE to have a HR monitor. Most of these people don't know how to use them.
    Power meters are going that way.
    So too are coaches. A good coach used well is excellent. Lots of case of good (or bad) coaches gotten just because everyone else is doing it when its not always appropriate.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,208 ✭✭✭shotgunmcos


    I think the most common mistake with PMs, Coaches, Wheels etc is that people see them as solutions rather than tools


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,584 ✭✭✭✭tunney


    I think the most common mistake with PMs, Coaches, Wheels etc is that people see them as solutions rather than tools

    QFT


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,359 ✭✭✭peter kern


    pb3 coaching will be renamed to the tri tool . I love it .


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 7,454 ✭✭✭hf4z6sqo7vjngi


    User|Starting FTP|Current FTP|Watts/kg|Target FTP|Target Watts/kg|Test|Unit
    Jackyback|254watts|298watts|4.48|325watts|5.00|T5+T20*0.95|Power2Max PM
    NWM2|285watts|305watts|3.65|310watts|3.7|T5+T20*0.95|Powertap SL+
    pgibbo|232watts|260watts|3.56|300watts|4.35|T5+T20*0.95|Power2Max PM
    twonpelota|250 watts|250 watts|3.2|300watts|4.4|T5+T20*0.95|SRM
    Fazz|255 watts|270.75 watts|3.99|300 watts|4.4|T5+T20*0.95|Computrainer
    Nerraw|216 watts|216 watts|3.33|280 watts|4.3|T5+T20*0.95|Tacx Flow
    shotgunmcos|318 watts|325 watts|4.23|330watts|4.4|T5+T20*0.95|Tacx Flow
    RedB|230 watts|230 watts|2.55|290 watts|3.5|T5+T20*0.95|Tacx Flow
    BennyMul| 253 watts |253 watts |3.4|290watts|4|T5+T20*0.95|Powertap SL2+
    Bobblehead_jr|345 watts|345 watts|4.9|390 watts|5.6|T5+T20*0.95| iBike iPro
    Macanri|237 watts|237 watts|3.22|?280watts|4.0|T5+T20*0.95|Tacx Flow T2200
    Bambaata|322 watts|322 watts|4.17|340?watts|4.75|T5+T20*0.95|Power2Max PM
    dx22|239 watts|239 watts|3.07|300watts|4.28|T5+T20*0.95|Tacx Flow T2200


    14w and 4% improvement although it was tough work. That is a total of a 44w improvement on my FTP from my first test back in Oct 11.
    I knew i had it in the legs from the previous 2x20 threshold sessions the coach had me doing. Tired but happy!!


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,121 ✭✭✭Fazz


    Serious progress JB nice work!

    Now put that into race splits in 2 weeks in Athy.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,173 ✭✭✭BennyMul


    Savage JB, nice to see all the hard work paying off.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,112 ✭✭✭Bambaata


    Im pretty sure ill have one coming soon enough! Dont know if thats a good or a bad thing!


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 7,454 ✭✭✭hf4z6sqo7vjngi


    Bambaata wrote: »
    Im pretty sure ill have one coming soon enough! Dont know if thats a good or a bad thing!

    Ha rather you than me:rolleyes: I am finished with them for now.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 707 ✭✭✭d4r3n


    User|Starting FTP|Current FTP|Watts/kg|Target FTP|Target Watts/kg|Test|Unit
    Jackyback|254watts|298watts|4.48|325watts|5.00|T5+T20*0.95|Power2Max PM
    NWM2|285watts|305watts|3.65|310watts|3.7|T5+T20*0.95|Powertap SL+
    pgibbo|232watts|260watts|3.56|300watts|4.35|T5+T20*0.95|Power2Max PM
    twonpelota|250 watts|250 watts|3.2|300watts|4.4|T5+T20*0.95|SRM
    Fazz|255 watts|270.75 watts|3.99|300 watts|4.4|T5+T20*0.95|Computrainer
    Nerraw|216 watts|216 watts|3.33|280 watts|4.3|T5+T20*0.95|Tacx Flow
    shotgunmcos|318 watts|325 watts|4.23|330watts|4.4|T5+T20*0.95|Tacx Flow
    RedB|230 watts|230 watts|2.55|290 watts|3.5|T5+T20*0.95|Tacx Flow
    BennyMul| 253 watts |253 watts |3.4|290watts|4|T5+T20*0.95|Powertap SL2+
    Bobblehead_jr|345 watts|345 watts|4.9|390 watts|5.6|T5+T20*0.95| iBike iPro
    Macanri|237 watts|237 watts|3.22|?280watts|4.0|T5+T20*0.95|Tacx Flow T2200
    Bambaata|322 watts|322 watts|4.17|340?watts|4.75|T5+T20*0.95|Power2Max PM
    dx22|239 watts|239 watts|3.07|300watts|4.28|T5+T20*0.95|Tacx Flow T2200
    d4r3n|189 watts|189 watts|3.09|244 watts|4.0|T5+T20*0.95|Powertap


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,584 ✭✭✭✭tunney


    User|Starting FTP|Current FTP|Watts/kg|Target FTP|Target Watts/kg|Test|Unit
    Jackyback|254watts|298watts|4.48|325watts|5.00|T5+T20*0.95|Power2Max PM
    NWM2|285watts|305watts|3.65|310watts|3.7|T5+T20*0.95|Powertap SL+
    pgibbo|232watts|260watts|3.56|300watts|4.35|T5+T20*0.95|Power2Max PM
    twonpelota|250 watts|250 watts|3.2|300watts|4.4|T5+T20*0.95|SRM
    Fazz|255 watts|270.75 watts|3.99|300 watts|4.4|T5+T20*0.95|Computrainer
    Nerraw|216 watts|216 watts|3.33|280 watts|4.3|T5+T20*0.95|Tacx Flow
    shotgunmcos|318 watts|325 watts|4.23|330watts|4.4|T5+T20*0.95|Tacx Flow
    RedB|230 watts|230 watts|2.55|290 watts|3.5|T5+T20*0.95|Tacx Flow
    BennyMul| 253 watts |253 watts |3.4|290watts|4|T5+T20*0.95|Powertap SL2+
    Bobblehead_jr|345 watts|345 watts|4.9|390 watts|5.6|T5+T20*0.95| iBike iPro
    Macanri|237 watts|237 watts|3.22|?280watts|4.0|T5+T20*0.95|Tacx Flow T2200
    Bambaata|322 watts|322 watts|4.17|340?watts|4.75|T5+T20*0.95|Power2Max PM
    dx22|239 watts|239 watts|3.07|300watts|4.28|T5+T20*0.95|Tacx Flow T2200
    d4r3n|189 watts|189 watts|3.09|244 watts|4.0|T5+T20*0.95|Powertap
    tunney|240 watts|275 watts|3.72|275 watts|3.72|Hour TT|SRM


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,112 ✭✭✭Bambaata


    User|Starting FTP|Current FTP|Watts/kg|Target FTP|Target Watts/kg|Test|Unit
    Jackyback|254watts|298watts|4.48|325watts|5.00|T5+T20*0.95|Power2Max PM
    NWM2|285watts|305watts|3.65|310watts|3.7|T5+T20*0.95|Powertap SL+
    pgibbo|232watts|260watts|3.56|300watts|4.35|T5+T20*0.95|Power2Max PM
    twonpelota|250 watts|250 watts|3.2|300watts|4.4|T5+T20*0.95|SRM
    Fazz|255 watts|270.75 watts|3.99|300 watts|4.4|T5+T20*0.95|Computrainer
    Nerraw|216 watts|216 watts|3.33|280 watts|4.3|T5+T20*0.95|Tacx Flow
    shotgunmcos|318 watts|325 watts|4.23|330watts|4.4|T5+T20*0.95|Tacx Flow
    RedB|230 watts|230 watts|2.55|290 watts|3.5|T5+T20*0.95|Tacx Flow
    BennyMul| 253 watts |253 watts |3.4|290watts|4|T5+T20*0.95|Powertap SL2+
    Bobblehead_jr|345 watts|345 watts|4.9|390 watts|5.6|T5+T20*0.95| iBike iPro
    Macanri|237 watts|237 watts|3.22|?280watts|4.0|T5+T20*0.95|Tacx Flow T2200
    Bambaata|322 watts|338 watts|4.29|345?watts|4.54|T5+T20*0.95|Power2Max PM
    dx22|239 watts|239 watts|3.07|300watts|4.28|T5+T20*0.95|Tacx Flow T2200
    d4r3n|189 watts|189 watts|3.09|244 watts|4.0|T5+T20*0.95|Powertap
    tunney|240 watts|275 watts|3.72|275 watts|3.72|Hour TT|SRM


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,377 Mod ✭✭✭✭pgibbo


    You back in the groove Ed? Nice numbers!!! :cool:


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,112 ✭✭✭Bambaata


    Yeah getting there. Have had a decent ;last 2 1/2 to 3 weeks so glad to be getting back to normal. Felling decent now too. Ive an olympic next week so im looking forward to it. I havent done an oly distance in a long long time so it should be interesting and the bike is slightly long so as long as the swim isnt it should suit me!I was happy to see any improvement in the test and i hadnt copped how much it was until afterwards. I was a serious sweaty mess through it all even with the fan! Tried drying myself two or three times but HR was creeping up 3 to 4 beats but doing that so gave up trying and just closed my eyes to get through the pain! Always good to have that test behind me and i think it was my best to date pacing wise.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 691 ✭✭✭Briando


    Thats nice power you have Bambatta.

    I'm considering a Power2Max right now, probably the Rotar3D Plus version.

    What are your thoughts on the P2M? Happy you went ahead and purchased from them?

    I see quiet a few mixed reviews online.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,112 ✭✭✭Bambaata


    Thanks Briando. Yeah im more than happy. NO issues with it to date. I just changed the battery about three weeks ago after approx 8000km and it took all of 2minutes to do - very convenient that it doesnt need to be sent back. There are heat issues on the turbo but so long as you just stop for 5 seconds here and there in the opening 45mins i find its 100% accurate. During that test i stropped to let it recalibrate a good few times during the warmups and hence didnt see any jumping in power.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 7,454 ✭✭✭hf4z6sqo7vjngi


    16w improvement, nicely done Ed.


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,584 ✭✭✭✭tunney


    Bambaata wrote: »
    Yeah getting there. Have had a decent ;last 2 1/2 to 3 weeks so glad to be getting back to normal. Felling decent now too. Ive an olympic next week so im looking forward to it. I havent done an oly distance in a long long time so it should be interesting and the bike is slightly long so as long as the swim isnt it should suit me!I was happy to see any improvement in the test and i hadnt copped how much it was until afterwards. I was a serious sweaty mess through it all even with the fan! Tried drying myself two or three times but HR was creeping up 3 to 4 beats but doing that so gave up trying and just closed my eyes to get through the pain! Always good to have that test behind me and i think it was my best to date pacing wise.

    its actually a massive step backward for you. huge. your season is ruined.

    PMs are evil, and since a PM said you have improved then you must actually have gone backwards - alot.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 548 ✭✭✭Nwm2


    User|Starting FTP|Current FTP|Watts/kg|Target FTP|Target Watts/kg|Test|Unit
    Jackyback|254watts|298watts|4.48|325watts|5.00|T5+T20*0.95|Power2Max PM
    NWM2|285watts|327watts|3.9|310watts|3.7|40k TT|Powertap SL+
    pgibbo|232watts|260watts|3.56|300watts|4.35|T5+T20*0.95|Power2Max PM
    twonpelota|250 watts|250 watts|3.2|300watts|4.4|T5+T20*0.95|SRM
    Fazz|255 watts|270.75 watts|3.99|300 watts|4.4|T5+T20*0.95|Computrainer
    Nerraw|216 watts|216 watts|3.33|280 watts|4.3|T5+T20*0.95|Tacx Flow
    shotgunmcos|318 watts|325 watts|4.23|330watts|4.4|T5+T20*0.95|Tacx Flow
    RedB|230 watts|230 watts|2.55|290 watts|3.5|T5+T20*0.95|Tacx Flow
    BennyMul| 253 watts |253 watts |3.4|290watts|4|T5+T20*0.95|Powertap SL2+
    Bobblehead_jr|345 watts|345 watts|4.9|390 watts|5.6|T5+T20*0.95| iBike iPro
    Macanri|237 watts|237 watts|3.22|?280watts|4.0|T5+T20*0.95|Tacx Flow T2200
    Bambaata|322 watts|338 watts|4.29|345?watts|4.54|T5+T20*0.95|Power2Max PM
    dx22|239 watts|239 watts|3.07|300watts|4.28|T5+T20*0.95|Tacx Flow T2200
    d4r3n|189 watts|189 watts|3.09|244 watts|4.0|T5+T20*0.95|Powertap
    tunney|240 watts|275 watts|3.72|275 watts|3.72|Hour TT|SRM



    So I did a 40km standalone outdoor TT recently. Average power for the 61min was 327W.

    Now - I forgot to calibrate the frickin' Powertap before starting!

    I'm not used to standalone 40k TTs, much more used to 15k TTs, or 40k bike legs in Oly triathlons. Was getting more power for my perceived effort at least for the first half of the TT, certainly suffered for the second half!

    So - what say you guys? Valid result or not? Will revert to previous if those in the know reckon it's not valid.

    One thing I know - I ain't doing it again in a hurry:eek:

    Didn't break the hour - needed to go 1.5 sec/km faster. So for all my supposed power I'm as aero as a brick.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,173 ✭✭✭BennyMul


    Nwm2 wrote: »
    Now - I forgot to calibrate the frickin' Powertap before starting!

    Do you have to calibrate the PT? I thought it did this its self on startup.

    Nice ride there, pity about the 60min do.

    for anyone interested here is Wiggins wattage zones eeeeeeeek
    http://www.ciclismo-espresso.com/2012/06/wiggins-wattage-zones.html


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 548 ✭✭✭Nwm2


    BennyMul wrote: »
    Do you have to calibrate the PT? I thought it did this its self on startup.

    Nice ride there, pity about the 60min do.

    for anyone interested here is Wiggins wattage zones eeeeeeeek
    http://www.ciclismo-espresso.com/2012/06/wiggins-wattage-zones.html


    Note 100% sure about PT calibration - seems to be one of the first things people trot out on forums. Should research it better I guess.

    Anyway, when I analysed the file, and subtracted the last segment which included a significant period being slumped over the bike ready to puke after crossing the finish line, I averaged out at 329W. Maybe with a bit more analysis I can get even more power!

    Although I'm not happy about not breaking the hour, I am happy with my power, and even more happy that I'm close to justifying a new TT bike for myself :)

    Even more impressive than Wiggins raw numbers are his W/kg!


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 707 ✭✭✭d4r3n


    User|Starting FTP|Current FTP|Watts/kg|Target FTP|Target Watts/kg|Test|Unit
    Jackyback|254watts|298watts|4.48|325watts|5.00|T5+T20*0.95|Power2Max PM
    NWM2|285watts|327watts|3.9|310watts|3.7|40k TT|Powertap SL+
    pgibbo|232watts|260watts|3.56|300watts|4.35|T5+T20*0.95|Power2Max PM
    twonpelota|250 watts|250 watts|3.2|300watts|4.4|T5+T20*0.95|SRM
    Fazz|255 watts|270.75 watts|3.99|300 watts|4.4|T5+T20*0.95|Computrainer
    Nerraw|216 watts|216 watts|3.33|280 watts|4.3|T5+T20*0.95|Tacx Flow
    shotgunmcos|318 watts|325 watts|4.23|330watts|4.4|T5+T20*0.95|Tacx Flow
    RedB|230 watts|230 watts|2.55|290 watts|3.5|T5+T20*0.95|Tacx Flow
    BennyMul| 253 watts |253 watts |3.4|290watts|4|T5+T20*0.95|Powertap SL2+
    Bobblehead_jr|345 watts|345 watts|4.9|390 watts|5.6|T5+T20*0.95| iBike iPro
    Macanri|237 watts|237 watts|3.22|?280watts|4.0|T5+T20*0.95|Tacx Flow T2200
    Bambaata|322 watts|338 watts|4.29|345?watts|4.54|T5+T20*0.95|Power2Max PM
    dx22|239 watts|239 watts|3.07|300watts|4.28|T5+T20*0.95|Tacx Flow T2200
    d4r3n|189 watts|210 watts|3.68|240 watts|4.0|T5+T20*0.95|Powertap
    tunney|240 watts|275 watts|3.72|275 watts|3.72|Hour TT|SRM


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 7,454 ✭✭✭hf4z6sqo7vjngi


    User|Starting FTP|Current FTP|Watts/kg|Target FTP|Target Watts/kg|Test|Unit
    Jackyback|298watts|275watts|3.96|325watts|5.00|estimated|Power2Max PM
    NWM2|285watts|327watts|3.9|310watts|3.7|40k TT|Powertap SL+
    pgibbo|232watts|260watts|3.56|300watts|4.35|T5+T20*0.95|Power2Max PM
    twonpelota|250 watts|250 watts|3.2|300watts|4.4|T5+T20*0.95|SRM
    Fazz|255 watts|270.75 watts|3.99|300 watts|4.4|T5+T20*0.95|Computrainer
    Nerraw|216 watts|216 watts|3.33|280 watts|4.3|T5+T20*0.95|Tacx Flow
    shotgunmcos|318 watts|325 watts|4.23|330watts|4.4|T5+T20*0.95|Tacx Flow
    RedB|230 watts|230 watts|2.55|290 watts|3.5|T5+T20*0.95|Tacx Flow
    BennyMul| 253 watts |253 watts |3.4|290watts|4|T5+T20*0.95|Powertap SL2+
    Bobblehead_jr|345 watts|345 watts|4.9|390 watts|5.6|T5+T20*0.95| iBike iPro
    Macanri|237 watts|237 watts|3.22|?280watts|4.0|T5+T20*0.95|Tacx Flow T2200
    Bambaata|322 watts|338 watts|4.29|345?watts|4.54|T5+T20*0.95|Power2Max PM
    dx22|239 watts|239 watts|3.07|300watts|4.28|T5+T20*0.95|Tacx Flow T2200
    d4r3n|189 watts|210 watts|3.68|240 watts|4.0|T5+T20*0.95|Powertap
    tunney|240 watts|230 watts|3.15|275 watts|3.72|Rough guess|Finger from air


    In that case!!


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,910 ✭✭✭couerdelion


    User|Starting FTP|Current FTP|Watts/kg|Target FTP|Target Watts/kg|Test|Unit
    Jackyback|298watts|275watts|3.96|325watts|5.00|estimated|Power2Max PM
    NWM2|285watts|327watts|3.9|310watts|3.7|40k TT|Powertap SL+
    pgibbo|232watts|260watts|3.56|300watts|4.35|T5+T20*0.95|Power2Max PM
    twonpelota|250 watts|250 watts|3.2|300watts|4.4|T5+T20*0.95|SRM
    Fazz|255 watts|270.75 watts|3.99|300 watts|4.4|T5+T20*0.95|Computrainer
    Nerraw|216 watts|216 watts|3.33|280 watts|4.3|T5+T20*0.95|Tacx Flow
    shotgunmcos|318 watts|325 watts|4.23|330watts|4.4|T5+T20*0.95|Tacx Flow
    RedB|230 watts|230 watts|2.55|290 watts|3.5|T5+T20*0.95|Tacx Flow
    BennyMul| 253 watts |253 watts |3.4|290watts|4|T5+T20*0.95|Powertap SL2+
    Bobblehead_jr|345 watts|345 watts|4.9|390 watts|5.6|T5+T20*0.95| iBike iPro
    Macanri|237 watts|237 watts|3.22|?280watts|4.0|T5+T20*0.95|Tacx Flow T2200
    Bambaata|322 watts|338 watts|4.29|345?watts|4.54|T5+T20*0.95|Power2Max PM
    dx22|239 watts|239 watts|3.07|300watts|4.28|T5+T20*0.95|Tacx Flow T2200
    d4r3n|189 watts|210 watts|3.68|240 watts|4.0|T5+T20*0.95|Powertap
    tunney|240 watts|230 watts|3.15|275 watts|3.72|Rough guess|Finger from air
    couerdelion|252 watts|252 watts|2.29|300 watts|3.33|avg(2x8mins)*.90 |Cycleops Magneto + Trainer Road


    As I'm starting training again for next season I'll join this if it's still going on. Or is a new one starting?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,584 ✭✭✭✭tunney


    User|Starting FTP|Current FTP|Watts/kg|Target FTP|Target Watts/kg|Test|Unit
    Jackyback|298watts|275watts|3.96|325watts|5.00|estimated|Power2Max PM
    NWM2|285watts|327watts|3.9|310watts|3.7|40k TT|Powertap SL+
    pgibbo|232watts|260watts|3.56|300watts|4.35|T5+T20*0.95|Power2Max PM
    twonpelota|250 watts|250 watts|3.2|300watts|4.4|T5+T20*0.95|SRM
    Fazz|255 watts|270.75 watts|3.99|300 watts|4.4|T5+T20*0.95|Computrainer
    Nerraw|216 watts|216 watts|3.33|280 watts|4.3|T5+T20*0.95|Tacx Flow
    shotgunmcos|318 watts|325 watts|4.23|330watts|4.4|T5+T20*0.95|Tacx Flow
    RedB|230 watts|230 watts|2.55|290 watts|3.5|T5+T20*0.95|Tacx Flow
    BennyMul| 253 watts |253 watts |3.4|290watts|4|T5+T20*0.95|Powertap SL2+
    Bobblehead_jr|345 watts|345 watts|4.9|390 watts|5.6|T5+T20*0.95| iBike iPro
    Macanri|237 watts|237 watts|3.22|?280watts|4.0|T5+T20*0.95|Tacx Flow T2200
    Bambaata|322 watts|338 watts|4.29|345?watts|4.54|T5+T20*0.95|Power2Max PM
    dx22|239 watts|239 watts|3.07|300watts|4.28|T5+T20*0.95|Tacx Flow T2200
    d4r3n|189 watts|210 watts|3.68|240 watts|4.0|T5+T20*0.95|Powertap
    tunney|240 watts|230 watts|3.15|275 watts|3.72|Rough guess|Finger from air
    couerdelion|252 watts|252 watts|2.29|300 watts|3.33|avg(2x8mins)*.90 |Cycleops Magneto + Trainer Road


    As I'm starting training again for next season I'll join this if it's still going on. Or is a new one starting?

    I'd say start a new one.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,468 ✭✭✭sconhome


    Start one with regular testing of FTP and a set protocol for everyone to follow on turbo trainers? Levelish playing field.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,584 ✭✭✭✭tunney


    User|Starting FTP|Current FTP|Watts/kg|Target FTP|Target Watts/kg|Test|Unit
    Jackyback|298watts|275watts|3.96|325watts|5.00|estimated|Power2Max PM
    NWM2|285watts|327watts|3.9|310watts|3.7|40k TT|Powertap SL+
    pgibbo|232watts|260watts|3.56|300watts|4.35|T5+T20*0.95|Power2Max PM
    twonpelota|250 watts|250 watts|3.2|300watts|4.4|T5+T20*0.95|SRM
    Fazz|255 watts|270.75 watts|3.99|300 watts|4.4|T5+T20*0.95|Computrainer
    Nerraw|216 watts|216 watts|3.33|280 watts|4.3|T5+T20*0.95|Tacx Flow
    shotgunmcos|318 watts|325 watts|4.23|330watts|4.4|T5+T20*0.95|Tacx Flow
    RedB|230 watts|230 watts|2.55|290 watts|3.5|T5+T20*0.95|Tacx Flow
    BennyMul| 253 watts |253 watts |3.4|290watts|4|T5+T20*0.95|Powertap SL2+
    Bobblehead_jr|345 watts|345 watts|4.9|390 watts|5.6|T5+T20*0.95| iBike iPro
    Macanri|237 watts|237 watts|3.22|?280watts|4.0|T5+T20*0.95|Tacx Flow T2200
    Bambaata|322 watts|338 watts|4.29|345?watts|4.54|T5+T20*0.95|Power2Max PM
    dx22|239 watts|239 watts|3.07|300watts|4.28|T5+T20*0.95|Tacx Flow T2200
    d4r3n|189 watts|210 watts|3.68|240 watts|4.0|T5+T20*0.95|Powertap
    tunney|240 watts|230 watts|3.15|275 watts|3.72|Rough guess|Finger from air
    couerdelion|252 watts|252 watts|2.29|300 watts|3.33|avg(2x8mins)*.90 |Cycleops Magneto + Trainer Road


    As I'm starting training again for next season I'll join this if it's still going on. Or is a new one starting?

    Just noticed the protocol here 2x8 * 0.9 ? Significant overestimate there. as in huge.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,910 ✭✭✭couerdelion


    tunney wrote: »
    Just noticed the protocol here 2x8 * 0.9 ? Significant overestimate there. as in huge.

    It very well could be an over estimation. It's a standard test off TrainerRoad. There's an 2x8 minute test and also a 20 min test.

    Chris Carmicheal also uses the 2x8 minute test to estimate training zones in "Time crunched cyclist" except he takes the higher of the two figures and then applies the 90%. The Trainer figure would be a lower figure than that as it takes the average.

    The difference between the 20 min tests and the 8 minute is explained here:

    The 2x8min format is more appropriate for riders who know how to really push themselves because it’s basically a measure of power at VO2max. And as the more experienced riders know, working at or very close to VO2max requires great focus and a willingness to endure a high level of suffering for 8 minutes, twice. The 20min format ratchets the intensity down a bit, but the challenge of properly pacing over a 20min effort tends to skew many riders’ final number.
    Both formats are valid though, and the efforts – and consequently the data derived from the efforts – improve with time with respect to how accurately they assess maximal steady state power; practice make perfect.
    I like my riders to re-test every 4 to 6 weeks and this depends on the time of training season. During the Base phases, there’s no need to reassess and adjust values any more frequently than every 6 weeks, but as the season progresses and the training intensity climbs, it behooves data-inclined riders to reassess more frequently, as often as every 4 weeks, in order to stay on top of their improvement and modify their target power figures as their capabilities increase.
    And if you’ll indulge me, I’d also like to briefly address the misconception of estimated hour-power because this same notion plagued my understanding of assessment for quite some time. The concept is that we perform our assessment effort(s) and then derive a best-guess threshold value – HR, watts, or RPE – based on these sub-hour efforts. We then modify this number and voila, the theoretical output we should be able to sustain for a solid hour. But how many riders can actually ride at that power output for an hour, indoors or outdoors?
    The answer is, the riders who have trained specifically and consistently in order to develop the muscular endurance and mental fortitude to endure a solid hour’s effort – translated, very few. This is not something that comes easily and many riders will never train with this intent, rather we assess this estimated sustainable output level to find a point where our power (and lactate levels) go from manageable to unmanageable, over the span of roughly one hour.
    So while you might not be able to actually sustain this type of power for 60 minutes – give or take – as long as the format is consistent, both the 2x8min and 20min formats are still useful ways to quantify and track improvement, which is the real heart of the matter.

    The bit in the bottom is the most important to me. I don't really care if my actual power figures are way out as long as I have a way of consistently measuring them and they show signs of improving.


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,584 ✭✭✭✭tunney


    Of course any test repeated will be useful for tracking improvement.

    However on an FTP tracking thread does it make sense to use something that isn't FTP? You are comparing apples with oranges. Where in reality your apple isn't a granny smith but more of a crab apple.

    If you cannot hold your FTP for an hour - then its not your FTP. By definition.
    The reason, IMHO, people who determine their FTP from a 2x8 cannot hold it for an hour is because its not their FTP. A 20 minute TT with a 5 minute "opener" will give you a lower number but hey guess what - you'll hold it for an hour TT.

    I bought the Time Crunched Cyclist book and it arrived yesterday. Based on what I have read here I'm regretting it.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,469 ✭✭✭RedB


    The bit in the bottom is the most important to me. I don't really care if my actual power figures are way out as long as I have a way of consistently measuring them and they show signs of improving.

    Fair enough but I presume if you're then trying to use that FTP value for targeting race pace (as %FTP for various distances) then you'll have to take account that its a different protocal?

    EDIT - Probably not an issue for you if you're not using a PM


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,910 ✭✭✭couerdelion


    tunney wrote: »
    Of course any test repeated will be useful for tracking improvement.

    However on an FTP tracking thread does it make sense to use something that isn't FTP? You are comparing apples with oranges. Where in reality your apple isn't a granny smith but more of a crab apple.

    If you cannot hold your FTP for an hour - then its not your FTP. By definition.
    The reason, IMHO, people who determine their FTP from a 2x8 cannot hold it for an hour is because its not their FTP. A 20 minute TT with a 5 minute "opener" will give you a lower number but hey guess what - you'll hold it for an hour TT.

    I bought the Time Crunched Cyclist book and it arrived yesterday. Based on what I have read here I'm regretting it.

    I'll do the 20 min test on Saturday to compare.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,584 ✭✭✭✭tunney


    I'll do the 20 min test on Saturday to compare.

    With a five minute time trial before it.

    This would be my standard test set

    FTP Test
    10 easy
    5x(30sec build, 30sec easy)
    5min TT
    10 easy
    20 min TT
    10 easy


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,910 ✭✭✭couerdelion


    tunney wrote: »
    With a five minute time trial before it.

    This would be my standard test set

    FTP Test
    10 easy
    5x(30sec build, 30sec easy)
    5min TT
    10 easy
    20 min TT
    10 easy

    Similar to the test I'll be following which is:

    10 mins easy build
    3 x (1 min high cadence, 1 min easy)
    5 mins easy
    5 min TT
    5 min easy
    20 min TT
    10 min easy

    The 2 x 8 min was

    12 min easy building
    1 min high cadence
    1 min easy
    2 min high cadence
    2 min easy
    1 min all out effort
    2 min easy
    1 min all out effort
    5 min easy
    8 min TT
    10 min easy
    8 min TT
    10 min easy


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,553 ✭✭✭bryangiggsy


    User|Starting FTP|Current FTP|Watts/kg|Target FTP|Target Watts/kg|Test|Unit
    Jackyback|298watts|275watts|3.96|325watts|5.00|estimated|Power2Max PM
    NWM2|285watts|327watts|3.9|310watts|3.7|40k TT|Powertap SL+
    pgibbo|232watts|260watts|3.56|300watts|4.35|T5+T20*0.95|Power2Max PM
    twonpelota|250 watts|250 watts|3.2|300watts|4.4|T5+T20*0.95|SRM
    Fazz|255 watts|270.75 watts|3.99|300 watts|4.4|T5+T20*0.95|Computrainer
    Nerraw|216 watts|216 watts|3.33|280 watts|4.3|T5+T20*0.95|Tacx Flow
    shotgunmcos|318 watts|325 watts|4.23|330watts|4.4|T5+T20*0.95|Tacx Flow
    RedB|230 watts|230 watts|2.55|290 watts|3.5|T5+T20*0.95|Tacx Flow
    BennyMul| 253 watts |253 watts |3.4|290watts|4|T5+T20*0.95|Powertap SL2+
    Bobblehead_jr|345 watts|345 watts|4.9|390 watts|5.6|T5+T20*0.95| iBike iPro
    Macanri|237 watts|237 watts|3.22|?280watts|4.0|T5+T20*0.95|Tacx Flow T2200
    Bambaata|322 watts|338 watts|4.29|345?watts|4.54|T5+T20*0.95|Power2Max PM
    dx22|239 watts|239 watts|3.07|300watts|4.28|T5+T20*0.95|Tacx Flow T2200
    d4r3n|189 watts|210 watts|3.68|240 watts|4.0|T5+T20*0.95|Powertap
    tunney|240 watts|230 watts|3.15|275 watts|3.72|Rough guess|Finger from air
    couerdelion|252 watts|252 watts|2.29|300 watts|3.33|avg(2x8mins)*.90 |Cycleops Magneto + Trainer Road
    bryangiggsy|221 watts|253 watts|3.24|290 watts|3.84|T5+T20*.95|SRM


  • Registered Users Posts: 286 ✭✭dx22


    User|Starting FTP|Current FTP|Watts/kg|Target FTP|Target Watts/kg|Test|Unit
    Jackyback|298watts|275watts|3.96|325watts|5.00|estimated|Power2Max PM
    NWM2|285watts|327watts|3.9|310watts|3.7|40k TT|Powertap SL+
    pgibbo|232watts|260watts|3.56|300watts|4.35|T5+T20*0.95|Power2Max PM
    twonpelota|250 watts|250 watts|3.2|300watts|4.4|T5+T20*0.95|SRM
    Fazz|255 watts|270.75 watts|3.99|300 watts|4.4|T5+T20*0.95|Computrainer
    Nerraw|216 watts|216 watts|3.33|280 watts|4.3|T5+T20*0.95|Tacx Flow
    shotgunmcos|318 watts|325 watts|4.23|330watts|4.4|T5+T20*0.95|Tacx Flow
    RedB|230 watts|230 watts|2.55|290 watts|3.5|T5+T20*0.95|Tacx Flow
    BennyMul| 253 watts |253 watts |3.4|290watts|4|T5+T20*0.95|Powertap SL2+
    Bobblehead_jr|345 watts|345 watts|4.9|390 watts|5.6|T5+T20*0.95| iBike iPro
    Macanri|237 watts|237 watts|3.22|?280watts|4.0|T5+T20*0.95|Tacx Flow T2200
    Bambaata|322 watts|338 watts|4.29|345?watts|4.54|T5+T20*0.95|Power2Max PM
    dx22|239 watts|257 watts|3.51|300watts|4.28|T5+T20*0.95|Tacx Flow T2200
    d4r3n|189 watts|210 watts|3.68|240 watts|4.0|T5+T20*0.95|Powertap
    tunney|240 watts|230 watts|3.15|275 watts|3.72|Rough guess|Finger from air
    couerdelion|252 watts|252 watts|2.29|300 watts|3.33|avg(2x8mins)*.90 |Cycleops Magneto + Trainer Road
    bryangiggsy|221 watts|253 watts|3.24|290 watts|3.84|T5+T20*.95|SRM


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,584 ✭✭✭✭tunney


    User|Starting FTP|Current FTP|Watts/kg|Target FTP|Target Watts/kg|Test|Unit
    Jackyback|298watts|275watts|3.96|325watts|5.00|estimated|Power2Max PM
    NWM2|285watts|327watts|3.9|310watts|3.7|40k TT|Powertap SL+
    pgibbo|232watts|260watts|3.56|300watts|4.35|T5+T20*0.95|Power2Max PM
    Fazz|255 watts|270.75 watts|3.99|300 watts|4.4|T5+T20*0.95|Computrainer
    Nerraw|216 watts|216 watts|3.33|280 watts|4.3|T5+T20*0.95|Tacx Flow
    shotgunmcos|318 watts|325 watts|4.23|330watts|4.4|T5+T20*0.95|Tacx Flow
    RedB|230 watts|230 watts|2.55|290 watts|3.5|T5+T20*0.95|Tacx Flow
    BennyMul| 253 watts |253 watts |3.4|290watts|4|T5+T20*0.95|Powertap SL2+
    Bobblehead_jr|345 watts|345 watts|4.9|390 watts|5.6|T5+T20*0.95| iBike iPro
    Macanri|237 watts|237 watts|3.22|?280watts|4.0|T5+T20*0.95|Tacx Flow T2200
    Bambaata|322 watts|338 watts|4.29|345?watts|4.54|T5+T20*0.95|Power2Max PM
    dx22|239 watts|257 watts|3.51|300watts|4.28|T5+T20*0.95|Tacx Flow T2200
    d4r3n|189 watts|210 watts|3.68|240 watts|4.0|T5+T20*0.95|Powertap
    tunney|270 watts|270 watts|3.55|350 watts|5.14|T5+T20*.95|SRM
    couerdelion|252 watts|252 watts|2.29|300 watts|3.33|avg(2x8mins)*.90 |Cycleops Magneto + Trainer Road
    bryangiggsy|221 watts|253 watts|3.24|290 watts|3.84|T5+T20*.95|SRM


    Starting over for 2012

    330 watts for T5 and 285 watts for T20. Slightly undercooked both


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,121 ✭✭✭Fazz


    tunney wrote: »
    User|Starting FTP|Current FTP|Watts/kg|Target FTP|Target Watts/kg|Test|Unit
    Jackyback|298watts|275watts|3.96|325watts|5.00|estimated|Power2Max PM
    NWM2|285watts|327watts|3.9|310watts|3.7|40k TT|Powertap SL+
    pgibbo|232watts|260watts|3.56|300watts|4.35|T5+T20*0.95|Power2Max PM
    Fazz|255 watts|270.75 watts|3.99|300 watts|4.4|T5+T20*0.95|Computrainer
    Nerraw|216 watts|216 watts|3.33|280 watts|4.3|T5+T20*0.95|Tacx Flow
    shotgunmcos|318 watts|325 watts|4.23|330watts|4.4|T5+T20*0.95|Tacx Flow
    RedB|230 watts|230 watts|2.55|290 watts|3.5|T5+T20*0.95|Tacx Flow
    BennyMul| 253 watts |253 watts |3.4|290watts|4|T5+T20*0.95|Powertap SL2+
    Bobblehead_jr|345 watts|345 watts|4.9|390 watts|5.6|T5+T20*0.95| iBike iPro
    Macanri|237 watts|237 watts|3.22|?280watts|4.0|T5+T20*0.95|Tacx Flow T2200
    Bambaata|322 watts|338 watts|4.29|345?watts|4.54|T5+T20*0.95|Power2Max PM
    dx22|239 watts|257 watts|3.51|300watts|4.28|T5+T20*0.95|Tacx Flow T2200
    d4r3n|189 watts|210 watts|3.68|240 watts|4.0|T5+T20*0.95|Powertap
    tunney|270 watts|270 watts|3.55|350 watts|5.14|T5+T20*.95|SRM
    couerdelion|252 watts|252 watts|2.29|300 watts|3.33|avg(2x8mins)*.90 |Cycleops Magneto + Trainer Road
    bryangiggsy|221 watts|253 watts|3.24|290 watts|3.84|T5+T20*.95|SRM


    Starting over for 2012

    330 watts for T5 and 285 watts for T20. Slightly undercooked both

    Almost exact same as my last CP5 + CP20.

    Massive Target there!
    Even allowing for weight loss.
    270w to 350w!

    You must be packing in the SRM for a P2M? :-) :-D


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,584 ✭✭✭✭tunney


    Fazz wrote: »

    Almost exact same as my last CP5 + CP20.

    Massive Target there!
    Even allowing for weight loss.
    270w to 350w!

    You must be packing in the SRM for a P2M? :-) :-D

    Now the proud owner of a PCV and a PC7. Must sell the PCV

    Surprised at 270, given what I've done in the last while.

    Yes 350 is big but a soft goal is a bad goal.


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