How to approach tenancy not registered

The Real B-man · 18-06-2019 4:57pm #1

Hi,

I have being renting a property for 6 months and recently needed confirmation of address and rent for a loan, i approached landlord for confirmation said they never do that sort of thing, Alarm bells ringing at this stage previous landlords have always obliged.

So i went onto the RTB website and requested confirmation of tenancy surprise tenancy is not registered with RTB.

Now we haven't had any issues since we have being there we signed a lease and pay rent via bank so have records of all that and communications with landlord.

How do i approach this with them i obviously don't want the "my sister is moving in or im doing up the house" line and having to look for somewhere to live with small kids and current market it's not an option, i don't want to go in all guns blazing and accuse anyone maybe theirs a genuine reason!

I have had issues in the past which the RTB ruled in my favour i just don't want the months of hassle to resolve it all.

18-06-2019 5:07pm

The LL can register by paying late reg fee, and is under no obligation to give you any paperwork, though most give a written lease agreement. So, don’t be calling with any sense of entitlement, if he doesn’t do it, that’s his prerogative. Personally I’d give you what you need to get a mortgage, but different strokes for different folks.

RustyNut · 18-06-2019 5:10pm

The Real B-man wrote: »

Now we haven't had any issues since we have being there we signed a lease and pay rent via bank so have records of all that and communications with landlord.

I have had issues in the past which the RTB ruled in my favour i just don't want the months of hassle to resolve it all.

What issue is it that you want resolved?

Baby01032012 · 18-06-2019 6:01pm

Can you not provide lender with copy of your signed lease. Nothing else should be needed. Tenancy reg is up to landlord it doesn’t affect your rights and is not you’re responsibility to have it registered

Cheshire Cat · 18-06-2019 6:21pm

Don't you have utility bills? They will do as proof if address and the rent amount should be in your bank statements and/or the lease.

Lumen · 18-06-2019 6:46pm

I know people slag Threshold, but anyway...

https://www.threshold.ie/advice/seeking-private-rented-accommodation/does-my-tenancy-have-to-be-registered/

"If your landlord does not register your tenancy, they will not be able to refer a dispute to the RTB, but you will still be able to do so."

So you can report it but it appears not to be in your interest to do so.

rightmove · 18-06-2019 9:55pm

jaxonjones wrote: »

complain the LL to the RTB, should be regd

Or maybe just ask landlord about it before jailing him

3DataModem · 18-06-2019 10:18pm

Lumen wrote: »

"If your landlord does not register your tenancy, they will not be able to refer a dispute to the RTB."

"Oh no." said no landlord ever.

Agree they should be registered, but the consequences for them are pretty much nil.

rightmove · 19-06-2019 12:56am

Maybe he forgot. This aggressive approach is self defeating.

burkey2k0 · 19-06-2019 1:08am

Speaking from experience, just because you can't find the address on the RTB website, doesn't mean it's not registered. Their logging of registrations is a shambles. Full of typos, entry errors, and just plain missing registrations.

Del2005 · 19-06-2019 1:39am

Then the OP definitely won't be getting any confirmation of address from the landlord.

Graces7 · 19-06-2019 5:45am

Del2005 wrote: »

Then the OP definitely won't be getting any confirmation of address from the landlord.

Of course they will as it is on the lease and registration.

Graces7 · 19-06-2019 5:46am

rightmove wrote: »

Maybe he forgot. This aggressive approach is self defeating.

Tidying up the legal paperwork is not " aggressive".

Baby01032012 · 19-06-2019 8:14am

Graces7 wrote: »

Tidying up the legal paperwork is not " aggressive".

Reporting landlord to rtb for something that could be an error on the widely known fact that the register is often wrong. That is not legal paperwork.

daheff · 19-06-2019 8:18am

if you need proof of address & rent, give the lender a copy of your lease agreement

JustAThought · 19-06-2019 8:24am

I had a problem with someone who ran up loans and debt in my house - more than once -I had to deal with the solicitors letters and car repro man for their unpaid 3rd party debts and car loan. It was a nightmare and so annonying as I have a clean sheet and no personal loans or credit cards that address . And I was pretty disgusted that they lead this to my door and I was left with debt collectors and hoards or angry letters and registered letters for beauty treatmwnts and quasi cosmetic surgery . Personally I would struggle with allowing anyone to use my address for leveraging any kind of loan again. Nothwithstanding this, does your landlord know that there has been a change in the leglislation a few years back (10 or more) so that debt is attached to and follows the person and not the property . New GDPR laws may may this a major pain in the * for everyone to deal with in this situation so I am not surprised the landlord does not want an unregistered and possibly short term let borrowing using their address. And given that the banks/institutes may not want to be stung with someone who could ve untracable if they move - it is quite possible that you may not even get the loan if you are from overseas and could do a runner out of the country. Unlike Irish scumbags who just do a runner and use their fake ID/grannys name to cover their tracks. I used see it in work all the time. Fairly depressing stuff.

Wheety · 19-06-2019 8:28am

You pay by bank so have a record of rent. Address should be on lease. I'm not saying the landlord is in the right but why rock the boat? If you do, you may find the old "my sister is moving in or im doing up the house" trick happening.

You still have your full rights whether registered or not.

19-06-2019 8:35am

Graces7 wrote: »

Of course they will as it is on the lease and registration.

If the op has the lease, what’s the problem? The LL can register with RTB at anytime by paying a late fee, he/she does not have to do it just because the op wants him to, or because the op wants a mortgage. So I don’t get the “all guns blazing” attitude.

rightmove · 19-06-2019 10:20am

Graces7 wrote: »

Tidying up the legal paperwork is not " aggressive".

That's not what was said. It was said to report him without even flagging it first.

Fol20 · 19-06-2019 10:28am

As others have said. The ll is under no obligation to provide this.

For proof of address, use utilities bills.
For proof of rent, use your bank statement.

If you report him to the RTB like others have said is like going from 0-100 over something the ll doesnt have to provide. You will be guaranteeing he wont provide it by going to the RTB.

sheroman01 · 19-06-2019 2:45pm

Fol20 wrote: »

As others have said. The ll is under no obligation to provide this.

I hate this. "under no obligation to provide this." I'm sure the tenant can agree with the bank what paperwork is necessary. and then tenant and LL can get that paperwork between them. Why wouldn't the LL help the tenant, it's just a piece of documentation he needs?

Del2005 · 19-06-2019 3:42pm

Graces7 wrote: »

Of course they will as it is on the lease and registration.

The OP already has a lease which the bank isn't accepting, looks like our lax tenant enforcement is starting to have consequences on tenants. The bank is looking for more paper work which the landlord has no obligation to provide and reporting the landlord will definitely not encourage them to provide what the bank wants.

amcalester · 19-06-2019 3:48pm

sheroman01 wrote: »

I hate this. "under no obligation to provide this." I'm sure the tenant can agree with the bank what paperwork is necessary. and then tenant and LL can get that paperwork between them. Why wouldn't the LL help the tenant, it's just a piece of documentation he needs?

Why would the landlord get involved? It's between the tenant and the bank, nothing to do with the landlord and while I can't see any obvious pitfalls there's very little benefit to the landlord for providing additional paperwork.

At some point in the future that paperwork may be presented at an RTB tribunal and there's no way of knowing how it will be interpreted.

The Real B-man · 19-06-2019 4:04pm

Hi all,

Many thanks for the responses to clarify the lender will not accept lease in fairness its a copy and paste job from google this is not to gain credit this is to reduce a loan temporarily as my partner is unable to work due to illness.

The RTB offer a one page letter from there site once you have an account to confirm you are a tenant of said address etc, which the lender accepts no need to ask landlord which is fine, this is where i expressed concern as RTB have no record of tenancy at said address.

I am not out to get anyone or accuse anyone i just have experience with a previous LL and the RTB that took months to resolve i don't want this again should a dispute arise which i can only imagine would take even longer if tenancy is not even registered or LL.

Fol20 · 19-06-2019 4:36pm

sheroman01 wrote: »

I hate this. "under no obligation to provide this." I'm sure the tenant can agree with the bank what paperwork is necessary. and then tenant and LL can get that paperwork between them. Why wouldn't the LL help the tenant, it's just a piece of documentation he needs?

Do you like doing extra work for free for strangers ? If not, welcome to the real world..

Im not saying i wouldnt do it. Im just saying they do not need to provide it yet some in here think they should report him for it

wirelessdude01 · 19-06-2019 4:52pm

What do the bank actually require?

Samuel T. Cogley · 19-06-2019 7:21pm

Personally I'd be more inclined to go down the route of the Financial Services Ombudsman. They're making life very difficult for no good reason.

19-06-2019 7:26pm

Samuel T. Cogley wrote: »

Personally I'd be more inclined to go down the route of the Financial Services Ombudsman. They're making life very difficult for no good reason.

You are joking?

A lender wants proof of address where the debtor resides having recently moved, and you think it is making life difficult?

Wow.

Samuel T. Cogley · 19-06-2019 7:36pm

Dav010 wrote: »

You are joking?

A lender wants proof of address where the debtor resides having recently moved, and you think it is making life difficult?

Wow.

Other methods of proof of address have been mentioned in this thread. If they're insisting on something the LL doesn't have a legal duty to provide they are making life difficult.

19-06-2019 7:47pm

Samuel T. Cogley wrote: »

Other methods of proof of address have been mentioned in this thread. If they're insisting on something the LL doesn't have a legal duty to provide they are making life difficult.

They aren’t asking the LL to do anything, and asking the person applying for a loan/adjustment for this type of proof isn’t being difficult. The LL is being difficult, hardly a cause for complaint to FSO. Also, the op is asking the bank for a consideration that they are not required to give. I really don’t get this idiotic attitude that if something doesn’t go your way, then the other person is wrong and a formal complaint should be made.

You would think that the first thing to do is for the op to go see the LL, explain the situation and appeal for understanding and the confirmation needed. After all, the LL may be the one to lose out if the op is unable to pay both loan and rent. Reneging on a loan will effect CR, we all know reneging on rent doesn’t carry that type of effect on future access to credit.

amcalester · 19-06-2019 7:57pm

OP what do the bank want the lease for? Proof of address or proof of rent?

Would a rent book suffice?

Fol20 · 19-06-2019 10:49pm

amcalester wrote: »

OP what do the bank want the lease for? Proof of address or proof of rent?

Would a rent book suffice?

If there is a lease or money is paid via electronic transfer, this isnt required either

Mrs OBumble · 19-06-2019 11:01pm

Samuel T. Cogley wrote: »

Personally I'd be more inclined to go down the route of the Financial Services Ombudsman. They're making life very difficult for no good reason.

Looking for proof of outgoings as part of renegotiating the terms of a credit agreement is not being difficult, and is not done for no good reason.

Lots of people answering on this thread seem to think that the OP is looking for a bank-loan / mortgage. They have clearly told us this isn't the case.

As someone else said OP, you need to make sure that the landlord understands the consequences of you not getting this particular letter, and that they have the power to avoid those consequences.

Del2005 · 19-06-2019 11:10pm

Mrs OBumble wrote: »

Looking for proof of outgoings as part of renegotiating the terms of a credit agreement is not being difficult, and is not done for no good reason.

Lots of people answering on this thread seem to think that the OP is looking for a bank-loan / mortgage. They have clearly told us this isn't the case.

As someone else said OP, you need to make sure that the landlord understands the consequences of you not getting this particular letter, and that they have the power to avoid those consequences.

Since the RTB is toothless against tenants it does not make any difference to the landlord if the OP gets the reduction or not. Even the letter from the RTB the bank is looking for is as worthless as the lease agreement they won't accept as there are no consequences to a tenant who breaks a lease.

Samuel T. Cogley · 20-06-2019 9:39am

Mrs OBumble wrote: »

Looking for proof of outgoings as part of renegotiating the terms of a credit agreement is not being difficult, and is not done for no good reason.

Lots of people answering on this thread seem to think that the OP is looking for a bank-loan / mortgage. They have clearly told us this isn't the case.

As someone else said OP, you need to make sure that the landlord understands the consequences of you not getting this particular letter, and that they have the power to avoid those consequences.

Bank statement
Rent book
Lease.

The Student · 20-06-2019 10:21am

Herein is a case in point regarding the lack of trust in the rental sector.

Firstly whether the landlord has registered the tenancy with the RTB is irrelevant as a tenant is automatically covered. The tenant has proof of payment of rent. If the landlord was trying to avoid tax liability then they would not want the rent paid via a bank account.

Secondly, there is no onus on the landlord to provide any supporting paperwork. I am not sure of why the bank does not accept the utility bills, lease and bank statement as proof of address and outgoings etc.

I would suggest for your own sake don't start accusing the landlord of anything, it is not your responsibility to get the landlord registered with the RTB. It makes no difference to you if he is or is not. The landlord could have just forgot.

Approach the landlord and ask if he could assist you in your requirements, if he can't then just leave it at that and find an alternative way to fulfill the banks requirements.

Remember renting the property is only a business trans between you and the landlord. Neither of you owe each other anything other than what's in the lease. Obviously it is in both of your interests to have a good relationship but I strongly advise you don't alienate the landlord because he would not give you what you want.

Old diesel · 20-06-2019 11:21am

What if the short term crisis means that there is a difficulty in paying the rent.....

How might THAT be overcome.

It's all very well to go down the "I'm not obligated to give the info" road.

All that's been asked here is.....

"Mr OP currently resides at my property at 162 a boards thread

Boards co the Internet.

He pays a sum of 1100 euros a month to rent the property"

overkill602 · 20-06-2019 11:43am

The Student wrote: »

Herein is a case in point regarding the lack of trust in the rental sector.

Firstly whether the landlord has registered the tenancy with the RTB is irrelevant as a tenant is automatically covered. The tenant has proof of payment of rent. If the landlord was trying to avoid tax liability then they would not want the rent paid via a bank account.

Secondly, there is no onus on the landlord to provide any supporting paperwork. I am not sure of why the bank does not accept the utility bills, lease and bank statement as proof of address and outgoings etc.

I would suggest for your own sake don't start accusing the landlord of anything, it is not your responsibility to get the landlord registered with the RTB. It makes no difference to you if he is or is not. The landlord could have just forgot.

Approach the landlord and ask if he could assist you in your requirements, if he can't then just leave it at that and find an alternative way to fulfill the banks requirements.

Remember renting the property is only a business trans between you and the landlord. Neither of you owe each other anything other than what's in the lease. Obviously it is in both of your interests to have a good relationship but I strongly advise you don't alienate the landlord because he would not give you what you want.

+1 I detected an attitude from the op.

I noted in your op you say you have issues before and went to rtb as you are entitled.

did you deliberately waited 6 months (so now you have part4 rights) before asking.
LL has no responsibility to provide you with those detail unless you where applying for HAP or some social assistance now fcuk off you cheeky bugger.:p

Del2005 · 20-06-2019 1:07pm

Old diesel wrote: »

What if the short term crisis means that there is a difficulty in paying the rent.....

How might THAT be overcome.

It's all very well to go down the "I'm not obligated to give the info" road.

All that's been asked here is.....

"Mr OP currently resides at my property at 162 a boards thread

Boards co the Internet.

He pays a sum of 1100 euros a month to rent the property"

Providing the letter doesn't guarantee the rent either. The landlord has provided a valid lease, a cut and paste from Google is still a legally binding contract on the landlord but not the tenant, and the penalty for not registering the tenancy is trivial.

If the bank won't expect a lease why would they expect a letter from a random person?

20-06-2019 1:41pm

Samuel T. Cogley wrote: »

Bank statement
Rent book
Lease.

Bank statement doesn’t prove it is payment for rent.

Rent books tend only to be used where tenant pays rent into hand of Landlord, which the op has said is not the case here.

The bank has said the lease, which is a cut and paste job, is not sufficientl.

But anyways, how is the banks request for proof of address and rental payment onerous which considering the ops request to alter terms of loan? For practical purposes, I would think providing proof of where you can be contacted and what is likely to be your largest monthly outgoing would be essential info for a bank.

Samuel T. Cogley · 20-06-2019 1:44pm

Dav010 wrote: »

Bank statement doesn’t prove it is payment for rent.

Rent books tend only to be used where tenant pays rent into hand of Landlord, which the op has said is not the case here.

The bank has said the lease, which is a cut and paste job, is not sufficientl.

But anyways, how is the banks request for proof of address and rental payment onerous which considering the ops request to alter terms of loan?

OP is legally entitled to a rent book.

All leases are a cut and paste job.

Point already addressed.

Old diesel · 20-06-2019 1:44pm

Del2005 wrote: »

Old diesel wrote: »

What if the short term crisis means that there is a difficulty in paying the rent.....

How might THAT be overcome.

It's all very well to go down the "I'm not obligated to give the info" road.

All that's been asked here is.....

"Mr OP currently resides at my property at 162 a boards thread

Boards co the Internet.

He pays a sum of 1100 euros a month to rent the property"

Providing the letter doesn't guarantee the rent either. The landlord has provided a valid lease, a cut and paste from Google is still a legally binding contract on the landlord but not the tenant, and the penalty for not registering the tenancy is trivial.

If the bank won't expect a lease why would they expect a letter from a random person?

They will accept the letter or whatever because that's what they have asked for in the situation.

The letter in itself doesn't guarantee payment of rent.

But an agreed reduction in loan payment would give a better chance that OP will make the rent and that surely is in the landlords interest.

Old diesel · 20-06-2019 2:02pm

If someone has a shortfall of 350 a month due to a temporary financial crisis how do the landlords propose to address when they won't produce the letter that might get the 350 reduction in the loan reduction.

The landlord won't accept 350 less for the rent.

And a Landlord like the one in the OP will probably not take HAP either because doing so means filling out paperwork confirming that OP rents the property for x amount of rent.

So the option for OP is to go homeless because......

1) Landlord won't confirm OP rents the property.

2) Landlord won't accept a reduction in the rent.

3) and it's bad form to overhold after the date you are told leave.

So whats the solution for the OP?????

Old diesel · 20-06-2019 2:18pm

I would suggest OP talking to your nearest MABS advisor and seeing what advice they can give you on managing the current financial situation.

The community welfare officer might also be worth a visit - they might be able to give you some sort of payment.

The fact that you have to do those things because someone won't confirm you actually do rent the place at X amount a month is frustrating.

I'd also check if your normal financial situation in terms of income is under the social housing/HAP criteria limits.

A chat with local authority or local councillor might be useful here.

Your current landlord probably won't take HAP - but if your income is under the limits for it - it might be worth seeing if you can find a new landlord that might take it.

A lot of landlords don't like HAP but in financial hardship youve got to explore all avenues to keep a roof over your head.

I wish you the very best of luck

The Student · 20-06-2019 3:58pm

Old diesel wrote: »

If someone has a shortfall of 350 a month due to a temporary financial crisis how do the landlords propose to address when they won't produce the letter that might get the 350 reduction in the loan reduction.

The landlord won't accept 350 less for the rent.

And a Landlord like the one in the OP will probably not take HAP either because doing so means filling out paperwork confirming that OP rents the property for x amount of rent.

So the option for OP is to go homeless because......

1) Landlord won't confirm OP rents the property.

2) Landlord won't accept a reduction in the rent.

3) and it's bad form to overhold after the date you are told leave.

So whats the solution for the OP?????

How have we ended up here. The original post was that the tenant was looking to take out a loan. Was there a post that the tenant indicated that they needed the rent reduced?

amcalester · 20-06-2019 4:07pm

The Student wrote: »

How have we ended up here. The original post was that the tenant was looking to take out a loan. Was there a post that the tenant indicated that they needed the rent reduced?

OP is looking to re-structure a loan with the bank as. It was confirmed in his second post.

Everything Old Diesel is posting is just conjecture and anti-landlord nonsense.

The Student · 20-06-2019 4:14pm

amcalester wrote: »

OP is looking to re-structure a loan with the bank as. It was confirmed in his second post.

Everything Old Diesel is posting is just conjecture and anti-landlord nonsense.

Sorry must have missed the post regarding restructuring.

Old diesel · 20-06-2019 5:34pm

amcalester wrote: »

The Student wrote: »

How have we ended up here. The original post was that the tenant was looking to take out a loan. Was there a post that the tenant indicated that they needed the rent reduced?

OP is looking to re-structure a loan with the bank as. It was confirmed in his second post.

Everything Old Diesel is posting is just conjecture and anti-landlord nonsense.

In relation to my post the Student quoted the point I would like to make is this.....

IF a tenant whether it's the OP or any other tenant - hits a financial problem - how do you address any issues with paying the rent with the landlord as early as possible and in as honest and helpful way as possible.

I was hoping people might have picked up on the possibility that paying rent might be a struggle without the loan restructure and thus.....

1) suggested how you might explain to the landlord how you have a temporary financial situation due to the OH being ill and that this loan restructure means the rent is easier to pay.*

2) or in general how you might address a sudden difficulty you might have in paying the rent with the landlord as early as possible with honesty, integrity and trying to avoid being a bad person to the landlord.

Del2005 · 20-06-2019 6:44pm

Old diesel wrote: »

In relation to my post the Student quoted the point I would like to make is this.....

IF a tenant whether it's the OP or any other tenant - hits a financial problem - how do you address any issues with paying the rent with the landlord as early as possible and in as honest and helpful way as possible.

I was hoping people might have picked up on the possibility that paying rent might be a struggle without the loan restructure and thus.....

1) suggested how you might explain to the landlord how you have a temporary financial situation due to the OH being ill and that this loan restructure means the rent is easier to pay.*

2) or in general how you might address a sudden difficulty you might have in paying the rent with the landlord as early as possible with honesty, integrity and trying to avoid being a bad person to the landlord.

The OPs financial position is not the landlords problem. If they can't pay rent then the landlord is entitled to issue eviction notices, everyone keeps saying that they want professional landlords and that's how professional landlords operate.

People should have a rainy day fund or income protection insurance for emergencies.

Old diesel · 20-06-2019 8:07pm

Del2005 wrote: »

Old diesel wrote: »

In relation to my post the Student quoted the point I would like to make is this.....

IF a tenant whether it's the OP or any other tenant - hits a financial problem - how do you address any issues with paying the rent with the landlord as early as possible and in as honest and helpful way as possible.

I was hoping people might have picked up on the possibility that paying rent might be a struggle without the loan restructure and thus.....

1) suggested how you might explain to the landlord how you have a temporary financial situation due to the OH being ill and that this loan restructure means the rent is easier to pay.*

2) or in general how you might address a sudden difficulty you might have in paying the rent with the landlord as early as possible with honesty, integrity and trying to avoid being a bad person to the landlord.

The OPs financial position is not the landlords problem. If they can't pay rent then the landlord is entitled to issue eviction notices, everyone keeps saying that they want professional landlords and that's how professional landlords operate.

People should have a rainy day fund or income protection insurance for emergencies.

Realistically the direction of travel in this scenario is......

1) try and borrow a few quit from friends and family....

2) get financial advice from somewhere like MABS.

3) talk to community welfare officer - a soul destroying experience and you might come away with nothing but has to be worth a shot

.

4) check social housing support eligibility.

5) try and find a cheaper place - might have to move to a new town.

6) stay with friends and family if anyone of them is willing to let you stay.

7) (last resort) present homeless.

The problem i would have with all of the above is having to do it because the landlord wouldnt simply confirm I live in the place and pay him x amount of rent for the place.

The Student · 20-06-2019 8:43pm

Old diesel wrote: »

Realistically the direction of travel in this scenario is......

1) try and borrow a few quit from friends and family....

2) get financial advice from somewhere like MABS.

3) talk to community welfare officer - a soul destroying experience and you might come away with nothing but has to be worth a shot .

4) check social housing support eligibility.

5) try and find a cheaper place - might have to move to a new town.

6) stay with friends and family if anyone of them is willing to let you stay.

7) (last resort) present homeless.

The problem i would have with all of the above is having to do it because the landlord wouldnt simply confirm I live in the place and pay him x amount of rent for the place.

If the landlord does not want to do it for whatever reason then thats his perogatve. You may not like it but you cant force the landlord to provide the docs.

How to approach tenancy not registered

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