Pro14 Season 2019-2020

Tigerandahalf · 15-08-2019 1:04pm

Podge_irl wrote: »

Don't think an ACL is something you build up to doing. You either do something bad enough to rupture it or you don't.

I don't know. The vast majority of ACL injuries are guys going down upon very little contact or movement. Look at Anscombe, he just kicked a ball. Now perhaps it happened in an earlier move.

Zzippy · 19-08-2019 5:31pm

Tigerandahalf wrote: »

I don't know. The vast majority of ACL injuries are guys going down upon very little contact or movement. Look at Anscombe, he just kicked a ball. Now perhaps it happened in an earlier move.

I didn't see the game but heard he tried to play on for 10 minutes or so. Maybe you saw him going down for the second time?

Podge_irl · 19-08-2019 5:37pm

Tigerandahalf wrote: »

I don't know. The vast majority of ACL injuries are guys going down upon very little contact or movement. Look at Anscombe, he just kicked a ball. Now perhaps it happened in an earlier move.

Yeah, but generally its cause they get their foot caught and essentially twist their knee so much they tear it. As far as I'm aware its not something that is ever really caused by wear and tear, its from a "catastrophic" event (or whatever the correct terminology is - a one off event basically)

jacothelad · 20-08-2019 8:30am

The most common causes are as a result of sudden and 'violently' changing direction, pivoting with your foot firmly planted, landing awkwardly from a jump, stopping suddenly, getting a direct blow to the knee or a collision, such as a no arms, knee level tackle.

There are a number of factors that increase your risk of an ACL injury, including:

Being female — possibly due to differences in anatomy, muscle strength and hormonal influences
Participating in certain sports, such as rugby, soccer, basketball, gymnastics and downhill skiing
Poor conditioning
Wearing footwear that doesn't fit properly
Playing on artificial turf surfaces

Synode · 22-08-2019 11:18am

Cardiff to host the final in 2020. Never been but heard it can be tough to get accommodation in the City

thomond2006 · 22-08-2019 12:29pm

Synode wrote: »

Cardiff to host the final in 2020. Never been but heard it can be tough to get accommodation in the City

Small ground at 33k so hopefully it won't be as bad as the nightmare I read about games at the MS.

Podge_irl · 22-08-2019 2:22pm

It's an absolute nightmare for accommodation but given the lower level of interest for the Pro14 and smaller stadium should make it manageable. I would still expect to be a fair bit outside the city centre unless you get on it sooner rather than later.

salmocab · 22-08-2019 3:02pm

Cardiff is so inaccessible, it’s bad enough for a Wales game but for a neutral game like a final where every fan is an away fan it’s a nightmare for accommodation or even getting the train out.
That said it’s a good city if your sorted.

Exclamation Marc · 22-08-2019 3:26pm

I booked a room for two nights in the city centre for £90 back in July and the final had already been announced then so hopefully there's less gauging than usual this time.

Cookiemunster · 22-08-2019 3:40pm

Exclamation Marc wrote: »

I booked a room for two nights in the city centre for £90 back in July and the final had already been announced then so hopefully there's less gauging than usual this time.

That's what I thought. What's with the announcement today?

Tigerandahalf · 22-08-2019 4:01pm

Bristol is a very handy option. Good few flights into it and then train to Cardiff. Did that a few years back.

Exclamation Marc · 22-08-2019 4:11pm

Cookiemunster wrote: »

That's what I thought. What's with the announcement today?

Not sure really. It was the end of May that it was announced as being in Cardiff.

Maybe today is purely to push that tickets will be on sale soon as I don't think they were in the May announcement.

icdg · 22-08-2019 4:13pm

Cardiff City Stadium rather than the Millennium/Principality, oddly enough.

Exclamation Marc · 22-08-2019 4:50pm

icdg wrote: »

Cardiff City Stadium rather than the Millennium/Principality, oddly enough.

I don't think that's odd at all. There is absolutely no chance of filling a 75,000 seater stadium for the Pro14 final.

33,000 in Cardiff City Stadium is more achievable.

guapos · 22-08-2019 11:33pm

There's been 45,000 or just above for the last three finals so capacity in Cardif is low. Plus Cardiff isn't great for accommodation.

The millenium stadium is never available pro 14 finals as they get more money from other events.

Exclamation Marc · 22-08-2019 11:50pm

guapos wrote: »

There's been 45,000 or just above for the last three finals so capacity in Cardif is low. Plus Cardiff isn't great for accommodation.

The millenium stadium is never available pro 14 finals as they get more money from other events.

You're missing one very important point. Last year's final was well attended because it was in Glasgow and Glasgow were in the final. The year before it was in Dublin and Leinster were in the final. The year before was also in Dublin and Munster were in the final.

I can categorically tell you that if any of those games had no local teams, the attendances would have been significantly lower. Pro14 lucked out with the finalists.

guapos · 23-08-2019 12:03am

Yeah it's a fair point but I think pro 14 needs to aim higher.

Will be interesting to see Welsh rugby fan reaction to a non Welsh final.

The Lost Sheep · 23-08-2019 12:08am

guapos wrote: »

Yeah it's a fair point but I think pro 14 needs to aim higher.

Will be interesting to see Welsh rugby fan reaction to a non Welsh final.

Pro14 doesnt need to aim higher it has to be realistic and has to take into account sides from 5 countries etc. Venue for final had to go to Wales at some time and going to Cardiff city is better for this season. If it sells out very early great and in time maybe millenium will be available but otherwise we cant just go to aviva again or go to few small options in scotland

Exclamation Marc · 23-08-2019 1:03am

The Lost Sheep wrote: »

Pro14 doesnt need to aim higher it has to be realistic and has to take into account sides from 5 countries etc. Venue for final had to go to Wales at some time and going to Cardiff city is better for this season. If it sells out very early great and in time maybe millenium will be available but otherwise we cant just go to aviva again or go to few small options in scotland

Exactly. Should you have two non-Welsh teams, there's no hope you'd even half fill the Principality and the league will look weak. Not even that many Leinster fans travelled to Glasgow because it shortly followed the ECPR final.

A hopping small stadium brings the atmosphere the final needs.

ClanofLams · 23-08-2019 1:07am

Exclamation Marc wrote: »

Exactly. Should you have two non-Welsh teams, there's no hope you'd even half fill the Principality and the league will look weak. Not even that many Leinster fans travelled to Glasgow because it shortly followed the ECPR final.

A hopping small stadium brings the atmosphere the final needs.

It depends on the context. Leinster Connacht brought 35 thousand to Glasgow. If Munster Glasgow was final this year would expect close to a full house. But don’t think there’s much wrong with the selection.

Exclamation Marc · 23-08-2019 1:23am

ClanofLams wrote: »

It depends on the context. Leinster Connacht brought 35 thousand to Glasgow. If Munster Glasgow was final this year would expect close to a full house. But don’t think there’s much wrong with the selection.

Yeah it's a fair point, and I guess it's down to fans who travel but you're right; context and teams is everything. Agreed on the venue too, it's great to see it there.

AdamD · 23-08-2019 9:10am

Exclamation Marc wrote: »

You're missing one very important point. Last year's final was well attended because it was in Glasgow and Glasgow were in the final. The year before it was in Dublin and Leinster were in the final. The year before was also in Dublin and Munster were in the final.

I can categorically tell you that if any of those games had no local teams, the attendances would have been significantly lower. Pro14 lucked out with the finalists.

I see your point but its hardly lucking out. There are 4 countries in the competition and 1 of them never makes the final. Odds are you'll get a Welsh or Irish team most years.

Still, they'd need to seriously luck out to fill the Millennium.

aloooof · 23-08-2019 11:12am

AdamD wrote: »

I see your point but its hardly lucking out. There are 4 countries in the competition and 1 of them never makes the final. Odds are you'll get a Welsh or Irish team most years.

Still, they'd need to seriously luck out to fill the Millennium.

The only possibility I see of that happening would maybe be a Munster v Leinster final. Even then, they may not fill it.

errlloyd · 23-08-2019 11:15am

aloooof wrote: »

The only possibility I see of that happening would maybe be a Munster v Leinster final. Even then, they may not fill it.

I doubt they'd fill it for that. Judgement day 2016 they got almost 70 thousand. I think it is fair to say that an All Wales final would fill it.

I went to Cardiff for Ireland v Canada 2015 WC - realistically that was 70k away fans trying to get to the city. It was a nightmare. We drove from Birmingham, in and back that day. Nightmare.

Burkie1203 · 25-08-2019 5:17pm

Cheetahs not likely to be competitive if true

https://twitter.com/DjRossouw87/status/1165659203790241793?s=19

awec · 25-08-2019 5:36pm

This is going to be an issue for them forever. The Cheetahs play in neither Super Rugby nor Europe.

Only playing in the Pro14 means they’ll struggle to attract or keep talent.

thomond2006 · 25-08-2019 6:46pm

Ox Nche, a Springbok produced by the Cheetahs, is moving to the Sharks in November. Oh dear.

Exclamation Marc · 25-08-2019 7:03pm

These teams are supposed to be here for four more years under the initial agreement. I really can't see them being retained past that point with the disinterest there.

With rumours of more teams joining in 2021, the league should really be considering whether there's any value in more whipping boys.

Burkie1203 · 27-08-2019 4:25pm

https://twitter.com/SouthernKingsSA/status/1166370011407147014?s=19

Thrashssacre · 27-08-2019 7:59pm

Burkie1203 wrote: »

https://twitter.com/SouthernKingsSA/status/1166370011407147014?s=19

The amount of likes the post have really show how the kings have failed to capture the imaginations of anyone in sa since joining the pro 14 3/4 likes at most on posts offering updates on a mate against an international side.

Rigor Mortis · 27-08-2019 11:16pm

The final score in this game shows the absolute folly of people suggesting that the PRO 14 or even the six nations expand into Georgia. A 77th minute home win against the poorest team in the competition.

irishbucsfan · 28-08-2019 1:57am

Rigor Mortis wrote: »

The final score in this game shows the absolute folly of people suggesting that the PRO 14 or even the six nations expand into Georgia. A 77th minute home win against the poorest team in the competition.

Sure England's hammering of Ireland there the other day probably puts big question marks over our continued involvement in those competitions as well right? Can't be having results like that in utterly meaningless tune-up matches!

Rigor Mortis · 28-08-2019 6:42am

irishbucsfan wrote: »

Sure England's hammering of Ireland there the other day probably puts big question marks over our continued involvement in those competitions as well right? Can't be having results like that in utterly meaningless tune-up matches!

No. You are comparing club v country with country v country.

While I see the point you are making I dont think it follows through.

irishbucsfan · 28-08-2019 7:01am

Rigor Mortis wrote: »

No. You are comparing club v country with country v country.

While I see the point you are making I dont think it follows through.

It's almost as if trying to take any meaningful reading of any team's overall quality from a meaningless non-competitive warm-up game a month away from the beginning of their seasons is a complete waste of time?

Tigerandahalf · 28-08-2019 9:36am

More talk of a British Irish league.
It seems this is why CVC are investing. They see a return with a combined league.
They want a stake in the 6 Nations too.
https://www.walesonline.co.uk/sport/rugby/rugby-news/british-league-really-cards-what-16623150

A quote from a related article

'Getting the four Irish provinces on board - Leinster, Munster, Ulster and Connacht - is seen as important, but the English chief claims "if necessary we will go ahead and do it without them." '

Cookiemunster · 28-08-2019 10:09am

Tigerandahalf wrote: »

More talk of a British Irish league.
It seems this is why CVC are investing. They see a return with a combined league.
They want a stake in the 6 Nations too.
https://www.walesonline.co.uk/sport/rugby/rugby-news/british-league-really-cards-what-16623150

A quote from a related article

'Getting the four Irish provinces on board - Leinster, Munster, Ulster and Connacht - is seen as important, but the English chief claims "if necessary we will go ahead and do it without them." '

That's completely at odds with what Martin Anayi said only yesterday. More Welsh wishful thinking.
https://www.the42.ie/martin-anayi-pro14-interview-4784266-Aug2019/

“We’ve had no chats about a British and Irish League,” said Anayi. “That’s news to us. We’re focusing on the Pro14. I sometimes laugh because there’s almost ignorance around there being a European Cup. That’s why we play those great games against the English and the French clubs.

EDIT. Oh, I've just noticed you've posted a story from July 21st. You should really check the date on the top of the article.

Zzippy · 28-08-2019 10:19am

Tigerandahalf wrote: »

More talk of a British Irish league.
It seems this is why CVC are investing. They see a return with a combined league.
They want a stake in the 6 Nations too.
https://www.walesonline.co.uk/sport/rugby/rugby-news/british-league-really-cards-what-16623150

A quote from a related article

'Getting the four Irish provinces on board - Leinster, Munster, Ulster and Connacht - is seen as important, but the English chief claims "if necessary we will go ahead and do it without them." '

I get the impression some in the Welsh media are driving this through wishful thinking, rather than any factual reporting - it's always an anonymous English source quoted saying these things. The fact is the English clubs don't want an Anglo-Welsh league, the Welsh clubs on their own would add sweet FA value to their league and would necessitate a conference system with fewer games than they currently have. if there is going to be an enlarged league, they absolutely need the Irish and Scottish teams on board. The Welsh narrative of "oh we want you guys (Irish) involved, but if needs be we'll go ahead without you" is just baloney - no way the English clubs will go for that.

Tigerandahalf · 28-08-2019 10:53am

Yes the article is a month old but very relevant given that Martin Anayi has had to deny such talk. We all know CVC are interested in a stake in the pro14. They already have one in the Premiership. So how is an investment company going to turn a profit - a combined league to generate extra revenue seems the only way.

The smaller clubs in England won't want it but you can be damn sure the bigger clubs (who are losing money) would be happy to ditch them if it meant more value for their club.

CVC wouldn't have invested without some plan for a return.

The Welsh media seem to be mentioning a 2 conference system but I think a 2 division system with promotion/relegation could be an option.

The South African involvement in the pro14 doesn't seem to be working unless they will be allowed into Europe.

ClanofLams · 28-08-2019 12:49pm

I don’t see how a multiple division system works, are some of the premiership clubs going to accept being division two all of a sudden? Leinster, Glasgow, Munster, Ulster (depending on how their next few seasons go) would all need to be top tier.

This is always Welsh driven when it comes up. At this stage I almost wish it happened just so they could see it wouldn’t automatically solve their problems.

Neil3030 · 29-08-2019 1:02am

http://arethebritsatitagain.com/

errlloyd · 29-08-2019 10:56am

If you were going to do it, this is how you would do it.

Just run next season as normal then have top 6 from one league and top 6 from another league make up the top division of the new league.

From then onwards 1st in Div 2 and last in Div 1 straight swap. 2nd and 11th play off.

----

But I am not certain that divisions are a good idea.

icdg · 30-08-2019 1:28pm

According to the (London) Times today the Premiership clubs have failed in their latest bid to ring fence the top flight.

If they can’t deliver ring fencing in their own league despite countless attempts at this stage, I can’t see them agreeing to a set up where half the PRL clubs are effectively relegated to a second tier overnight without playing a match. Nor for that matter could I see the other unions agreeing to it no matter what money is on offer (and once it happens, there will inevitably be pressure from the top tier clubs for a bigger slice of the TV money than the second tier clubs).

No, any merged league (if it ever happens) will have to be on the basis of all the top flight clubs retaining that status, so two equal status conferences like the Pro14. Even so, I still can’t see it happening unless the problem of PRL having thirteen shareholders but only twelve playing clubs being resolved somehow.

Tigerandahalf · 30-08-2019 3:14pm

I don't know. If the big clubs (6 - 8) in England can't guarantee their top flight status via ringfencing well they may be happy to ditch the other clubs and join a combined league, one maybe without relegation. That might suit the union backed clubs better.

A key thing will be what role the RFU wants to play and how much money a tv offer would provide. We saw with soccer in England how the FA allowed the big clubs to break away.

If a tv contract doubled the clubs income and guaranteed no relegation a club like Leicester, Bath or London Irish (all likely to be included in the top 8) would have a big call to make. As a business case it would be a no brainer.

ClanofLams · 30-08-2019 3:39pm

This is miles away from happening but even if it were to, the IRFU would hold considerable power and it doesn’t happen without Irish teams.

Despite what some of the deluded Welsh believe, the premiership clubs aren’t changing their league to accommodate six teams (Welsh/Scottish) all of a very average standard (bar Glasgow) with limited support bases.

What CVC would want is the provinces and their large fan bases. A sold out Ricoh Arena/Thomond Park, Leinster travellig to take on Saracens, etc is what CVC would want to be marketing in a tv deal not Wasps vs Dragons in front of ten thousand or Saracens smashing Cardiff/Scarlets by forty.

molloyjh · 30-08-2019 3:49pm

You mean in front of 40....

Former Former · 30-08-2019 4:00pm

Worth remembering that this is only coming up because someone posted an old article from a couple of months back, that was nothing more than speculation to begin with.

Cookiemunster · 30-08-2019 4:09pm

Former Former wrote: »

Worth remembering that this is only coming up because someone posted an old article from a couple of months back, that was nothing more than speculation to begin with.

It was Tigerandahalf who posted the out of date article and it's Tigerandahalf who's keeping it going..........

Tigerandahalf · 30-08-2019 4:19pm

Gosh we are very tetchy in here. Maybe a win against Wales will solve things.

Anyway the reason I brought it up is the invesent by CVC. You don't invest that money without some solid plan for a return. Nobody has offered any other suggestion as to how it would work out.

Former Former · 30-08-2019 4:35pm

Tigerandahalf wrote: »

Gosh we are very tetchy in here. Maybe a win against Wales will solve things.

Anyway the reason I brought it up is the invesent by CVC. You don't invest that money without some solid plan for a return. Nobody has offered any other suggestion as to how it would work out.

What investment?

Zzippy · 30-08-2019 4:37pm

Former Former wrote: »

What investment?

CVC are reported to be in negotiations with the Pro14/unions about buying a stake. I've seen it somewhere but not bothered searching for the link, I'm sure a quick Google will find something.

Pro14 Season 2019-2020

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