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Replace oil boiler, or other alternatives

  • 19-01-2021 12:29pm
    #1
    bluestrattos
    Registered Users Posts: 565 ✭✭✭


    Hi all.

    I recently acquired a 2nd hand house (3bed semi-d from 2005 and it's a B3 with OFCH).

    The boiler is a Firebird Heat Pac 50-70, which seems it's discontinued, and I think it's around 15 years old. My plan it to get it serviced, and hopefully have it going for another year.

    I'm looking for options to get hot water and heating.

    From looking at other threads here, it seems my options would be:
    a) get a combi oil boiler and keep everything as it is
    b) solar panels
    c) get an heat pump


    a) getting a combi boiler, I would be spending around 3k and I don't need to do anything else - maybe update the heating controls

    b) getting solar panels, that would mean I could remove the boiler and the oil tank from the back garden (which would be nice to get that space back), but I would need to replace the heaters, and get some work done in the roof/attic, correct ?

    c) getting heat pump would mean I still need to have something in my back garden, and replace the heaters, besides is the most expensive options of all.

    While I want to my house to be "green", I also don't want to spend a lot of money.

    Are my 3 options valid ?
    Did I miss anything ?

    If I wanted to use electricity only (either solar or through ESB), would I still require "something" in my back garden, or could be something inside the hotpress or attic ?

    Thanks
    Tagged:


«1

Comments

  • #2
    kabakuyu
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,551 ✭✭✭kabakuyu


    Solar will not provide heating.Heat pump is very expensive.I would go with option A and get the most efficient boiler I could get, I would also check out if any insulation could be added to or updated in the house.


  • #3
    HBC08
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,535 ✭✭✭HBC08


    I'm looking into this too but am pretty clueless.
    My boiler is 15 years old an on its way out,have the boiler guy coming to take a look tomorrow but not expecting good news.
    I can get a replacement boiler new and fitted (possibly more efficient?) For €2k.
    I wonder what other options are there,id be open to anything from cheapest to most expensive,just need to weigh it up and educate myself on it.


  • #4
    ongarite
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,279 ✭✭✭ongarite


    kabakuyu wrote: »
    Solar will not provide heating.Heat pump is very expensive.I would go with option A and get the most efficient boiler I could get, I would also check out if any insulation could be added to or updated in the house.

    Solar is little more than an exercise in getting a higher BER rating IMO.
    Its benefits are marginal to most homeowners.


  • #5
    kabakuyu
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,551 ✭✭✭kabakuyu


    ongarite wrote: »
    Solar is little more than an exercise in getting a higher BER rating IMO.
    Its benefits are marginal to most homeowners.

    It will not suit everybody, it can depend on your lifestyle but some people seem to find it very good for their particular circumstances.. If you want a quick return on your investment it is probably not for you.
    Have a look at the renewables thread.

    https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/forumdisplay.php?f=1041


  • #6
    Wearb
    Moderators, Home & Garden Moderators Posts: 6,304 Mod ✭✭✭✭Wearb


    Just for reader information, 15 years old isn't really old for an oil boiler...unless it's has been neglected over the years. If minded (serviced annually or even bi-annually) it can still look nearly new after this time.

    Please follow site and charter rules. "Resistance is futile"



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  • #7
    HBC08
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,535 ✭✭✭HBC08


    Wearb wrote: »
    Just for reader information, 15 years old isn't really old for an oil boiler...unless it's has been neglected over the years. If minded (serviced annually or even bi-annually) it can still look nearly new after this time.

    Thanks,I only moved in 4 years ago but from the previous owner I would think it was serviced properly.Since I moved in ive had it serviced every year,last year the boiler guy did say it wasnt looking great and I might get another year or two out of it.


  • #8
    John.G
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,562 ✭✭✭John.G


    The Firebird Heat Pac 50-70 with a Rirllo G5X burner is a outstanding boiler, I too have a 2005 one (HeatPac) and its never missed a beat in 15 years.


  • #9
    Wearb
    Moderators, Home & Garden Moderators Posts: 6,304 Mod ✭✭✭✭Wearb


    HBC08 wrote: »
    Thanks,I only moved in 4 years ago but from the previous owner I would think it was serviced properly.Since I moved in ive had it serviced every year,last year the boiler guy did say it wasnt looking great and I might get another year or two out of it.
    If you want to stick a few picks of it on here, we could give you some guidance.

    Please follow site and charter rules. "Resistance is futile"



  • #10
    Tom44
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 949 ✭✭✭Tom44


    Wearb wrote: »
    If you want to stick a few picks of it on here, we could give you some guidance.

    New boiler supplied and fitted for €2K is "extremely" and wouldn't include a flush or magnetic filter.
    15 years isn't old for a boiler unless it's badly installed and a rust bucket.
    I service plenty that are double that.

    Energy Rating for oil boilers only came out in 2002-2003 and anything made after that date was fairly decent, newer condensing are better again.

    Pre 2002 and it was pot luck.

    As Wearb says, pictures will tell a lot.


  • #11
    Idbatterim
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,854 ✭✭✭✭Idbatterim


    wouldnt replace boiler until you have too... oil very cheap at moment. do you have access to natural gas line?

    boilers are made up of god knows how many parts, if Id have listened to plumbers, the combi we have, which is running fine, would have been replaced twice already, for the sake of two cheap parts! At the end of the day, they are a glorified kettle, they heat water, that is it. when they absolutely have to be replaced, yes it may make sense to go from the likes of oil to combi etc if on natural gas line and cost isnt prohibitive...


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  • #12
    um7y1h83ge06nx
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,029 ✭✭✭um7y1h83ge06nx


    OP, we have a 10 year old boiler going well and supplemented it about 3 years ago now with a solar thermal system i.e. the tubes that are filled with glycol rather than PV flat panels that generate electricity.

    Solar thermal just heats your water cyclinder. The previous owner had installed a water cylinder suitable for solar but never got around to installing the rest of the system, so we didn't need to replace it.

    It is not a substitute for another heating source but it provides about 90% I would say of our hot water from March to end of September. We have a pumped shower to take advantage of it too. So for about 7 months of the year we rarely turn the boiler on unless it being cloudy for serveral days in a row or unusually cold. Our 40 tubes can bring our 300L cylinder to 60-65c.

    During the winter months you certainly need the boiler for hot water and heating but the solar can still bring it up to 20-25c.


  • #13
    Wearb
    Moderators, Home & Garden Moderators Posts: 6,304 Mod ✭✭✭✭Wearb


    Just tidying this up and moving some posts to a new thread called "combustion readings"

    Please follow site and charter rules. "Resistance is futile"



  • #14
    antoinolachtnai
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,814 ✭✭✭antoinolachtnai


    I would say your sensible long term options are:

    1. New boiler + thermal panels

    OR

    2. Heat pump.

    The price differential between these two options is not going to be that big (but it would be interesting to price it).

    Personally I would go for the heat pump.

    There is obviously no rush in any of this. In the short and medium term there is no pressing need to change anything.


  • #15
    CoBo55
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,320 ✭✭✭CoBo55


    HBC08 wrote: »
    I'm looking into this too but am pretty clueless.
    My boiler is 15 years old an on its way out,have the boiler guy coming to take a look tomorrow but not expecting good news.
    I can get a replacement boiler new and fitted (possibly more efficient?) For €2k.
    I wonder what other options are there,id be open to anything from cheapest to most expensive,just need to weigh it up and educate myself on it.

    Supply and fit a new condenser boiler for 2 grand, that's a bargain, must be a cheapo brand. Most decent ones are almost that price.


  • #16
    HBC08
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,535 ✭✭✭HBC08


    CoBo55 wrote: »
    Supply and fit a new condenser boiler for 2 grand, that's a bargain, must be a cheapo brand. Most decent ones are almost that price.

    Got the actual qoute today after the boiler man came to have a look.
    €1500 fully fitted for Warmflow boiler, he'll do a Grant boiler for about €300 more.
    The old boiler working but on the way out,I have attached pic.


  • #17
    whizbang
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,947 ✭✭✭whizbang


    Whatever you are thinking of putting in there. Dont.

    Unless its Frogs, or something other very aquatic..


  • #18
    CoBo55
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,320 ✭✭✭CoBo55


    HBC08 wrote: »
    Got the actual qoute today after the boiler man came to have a look.
    €1500 fully fitted for Warmflow boiler, he'll do a Grant boiler for about €300 more.
    The old boiler working but on the way out,I have attached pic.

    That's a great price, a relative of mine got a grant recently, he got a filter thing as well €3200. Your boiler doesn't look too bad tbh, a good clean down with a hand brush and if you were feeling particularly energetic a coat of spray from a rattle can would transform it. Take out the baffles give them a good clean off, clean off the internal walls with a wire brush. Strip the burner carefully giving it a good clean with a stiff brush, new jet matching the old one and you're sorted. A plumber friend of mine checks it with his fga when he's nearby, sorted for another year.
    Do check the condition of the flexible oil line and replace it if it looks in any way ragged. I change mine every third service regardless of what it looks like from the outside.


  • #19
    Muise
    Registered Users Posts: 7 ✭Muise


    Hi just reading through this post
    I’m In the Same predicament
    Looking for options for heating torn between air to water or updating oil system or changing to gas.
    We are getting house insulated to a high standard also getting triple glazed windows.
    Cannot justify the cost of air to water though!! Am I wrong :(


  • #20
    bluestrattos
    Registered Users Posts: 565 ✭✭✭bluestrattos


    Thanks for the replies.
    I didn't say in the original post, but there's no gas in my area.

    Regarding the age of the boiler, I will have it serviced and after that I will know better (if you know anyone (plumbing/heating professional, please let me know - Kildare area).

    The report with efficiency, that another user shared, is that a standard when serviced, or it's something that depends on the professional servicing the boiler ?

    For now, I will go (keep) with the boiler option, and maybe look at the solar panels, and do a combination of both.


  • #21
    Widescreen
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,101 ✭✭✭Widescreen


    Just to continue the theme here

    I have an oil boiler that is more than 25 years old. It was there when we moved into house and still going ok. There is Riello burner on it. Still burning gas oil so it is expensive and burns much quicker than kero as you know.

    Chap that services said, reluctantly, that it wouldn't last much longer and strongly advised me to change it. I could wait till it packs in but no doubt that will be in the middle of December when it is snowing!

    I would be open to a used boiler that wasn't that old if someone was upgrading to a new type of system to avail of grants so any recommendations for one of those appreciated as well.

    Also can anyone recommend the best condenser boiler in their opinion to buy and recommend anyone in Mid West area to do the work?

    I have thought about heat pumps etc, but looks a non runner for me at this time.

    thanks


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  • #22
    Wearb
    Moderators, Home & Garden Moderators Posts: 6,304 Mod ✭✭✭✭Wearb


    Diesel should burn slightly less litres than kerosene for a given output. However diesel has been more expensive per litre for some time now.

    Grant is considered the cream of the crop, but I've a lot more firebirds on my round. Firebirds are fine if looked after as recommended in the manual, so long as they are set for their lowest firing rate.

    Please follow site and charter rules. "Resistance is futile"



  • #23
    Widescreen
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,101 ✭✭✭Widescreen


    Thanks. Would you have a link showing the fire bird condenser boiler you are referring to, just making sure I am looking at the right one?


  • #24
    CoBo55
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,320 ✭✭✭CoBo55


    Wearb wrote: »
    Diesel should burn slightly less litres than kerosene for a given output. However diesel has been more expensive per litre for some time now.

    Grant is considered the cream of the crop, but I've a lot more firebirds on my round. Firebirds are fine if looked after as recommended in the manual, so long as they are set for their lowest firing rate.

    What do you mean, set for their lowest firing rate?


  • #25
    Wearb
    Moderators, Home & Garden Moderators Posts: 6,304 Mod ✭✭✭✭Wearb


    Widescreen wrote: »
    Thanks. Would you have a link showing the fire bird condenser boiler you are referring to, just making sure I am looking at the right one?
    Enviromax.

    Please follow site and charter rules. "Resistance is futile"



  • #26
    CoBo55
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,320 ✭✭✭CoBo55


    Wearb wrote: »
    Enviromax.

    Having an ole bare minimum day today are we?


  • #27
    Wearb
    Moderators, Home & Garden Moderators Posts: 6,304 Mod ✭✭✭✭Wearb


    CoBo55 wrote: »
    MOD SNIP
    Please keep to the thread topic.

    Please follow site and charter rules. "Resistance is futile"



  • #28
    CoBo55
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,320 ✭✭✭CoBo55


    Wearb wrote: »
    Please keep to the thread topic.

    What does, and I quote "set to their lowest firing rate" mean? Thanks.


  • #29
    CoBo55
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,320 ✭✭✭CoBo55


    Widescreen wrote: »
    Thanks. Would you have a link showing the fire bird condenser boiler you are referring to, just making sure I am looking at the right one?

    Here's a link to the Firebird Condenser boiler range, https://www.firebird.ie/index.php/product-list-enviromax-kitchen.html







    others couldn't be arsed helping you obviously.


  • #30
    Wearb
    Moderators, Home & Garden Moderators Posts: 6,304 Mod ✭✭✭✭Wearb


    CoBo55 wrote: »
    What does, and I quote "set to their lowest firing rate" mean? Thanks.
    Mod Note: If you badger any poster, myself included, you will be infracted. It's up to a poster whether to answer a question or not.

    DO NOT RESPOND TO THIS MESSAGE

    Please follow site and charter rules. "Resistance is futile"



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  • #31
    CoBo55
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,320 ✭✭✭CoBo55


    Wearb wrote: »
    Mod Note: If you badger any poster, myself included, you will be infracted. It's up to a poster whether to answer a question or not.

    DO NOT RESPOND TO THIS MESSAGE

    You should change your motto:mad::mad:


  • #32
    Widescreen
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,101 ✭✭✭Widescreen


    Here's a link to the Firebird Condenser boiler range, https://www.firebird.ie/index.php/product-list-enviromax-kitchen.html




    Thanks, do you happen to know if this boiler has a built in Expansion Vessel?

    Can't find anything on the link that says it does. I know the Grant Vortex one does have one built in.

    My existing relic boiler has one linked to it, (probably as old as the boiler) and I want to keep the same sealed system in future.


  • #33
    Wearb
    Moderators, Home & Garden Moderators Posts: 6,304 Mod ✭✭✭✭Wearb


    They can be bought with it as a system boiler afaik, but it's almost always better to have a remote expansion vessel. tThey are cheaper to replace and work on. I rarely come across a system boiler.

    Please follow site and charter rules. "Resistance is futile"



  • #34
    Widescreen
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,101 ✭✭✭Widescreen


    Just on the whole oil boiler thing, are there dates specified in Ireland where you can no longer buy a new oil boiler to - 1) put in a new house and 2) put in existing house, and also 3) put a used boiler into any house

    checking as was also thinking of a used one in if someone was upgrading to heat pump/etc and was selling a decent reasonably new kerosene boiler


  • #35
    Widescreen
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,101 ✭✭✭Widescreen


    Just on the whole oil boiler thing, are there dates specified in Ireland where you can no longer buy a new oil boiler to - 1) put in a new house and 2) put in existing house, and 3) put a used boiler into any house?

    thanks


  • #36
    ednwireland
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,453 ✭✭✭✭ednwireland


    Wearb wrote: »
    Just for reader information, 15 years old isn't really old for an oil boiler...unless it's has been neglected over the years. If minded (serviced annually or even bi-annually) it can still look nearly new after this time.

    i wish that were true had a grant and a turco running on diesel the grant lasted 6 years and the turco about the same (in a boiler house) so we now have a external condensing boiler on kerosene (noticeably more expensive to run)
    all were serviced annually and the grant one was literally falling apart when it came out the internal structure had rotted.

    My weather

    https://www.ecowitt.net/home/share?authorize=96CT1F



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  • #37
    CoBo55
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,320 ✭✭✭CoBo55


    ednwireland wrote: »
    i wish that were true had a grant and a turco running on diesel the grant lasted 6 years and the turco about the same (in a boiler house) so we now have a external condensing boiler on kerosene (noticeably more expensive to run)
    all were serviced annually and the grant one was literally falling apart when it came out the internal structure had rotted.

    You'll probably offset the higher running costs with longevity. Do you leave the boiler off for the summer? Thats when most corrosion takes place inside the boiler. I worked in a factory and boilers literally fell apart too, we were burning diesel, the service man recommended that during the summer we run the boiler for an hour a week of course the stingy boss wouldn't do it, we ended up converting to kerosene after which was a lot better.


  • #38
    Wearb
    Moderators, Home & Garden Moderators Posts: 6,304 Mod ✭✭✭✭Wearb


    ednwireland wrote: »
    i wish that were true had a grant and a turco running on diesel the grant lasted 6 years and the turco about the same (in a boiler house) so we now have a external condensing boiler on kerosene (noticeably more expensive to run)
    all were serviced annually and the grant one was literally falling apart when it came out the internal structure had rotted.
    That is true. If you had such misfortune, it's most likely down to something else, like a bad install or a leak somewhere, or bad extension vessel, pumping over etc.
    Please start another thread if you want to discuss this further.

    Please follow site and charter rules. "Resistance is futile"



  • #39
    ongarite
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,279 ✭✭✭ongarite


    Widescreen wrote: »
    Just on the whole oil boiler thing, are there dates specified in Ireland where you can no longer buy a new oil boiler to - 1) put in a new house and 2) put in existing house, and 3) put a used boiler into any house?

    thanks

    2023 onwards for new builds is what I've seen mentioned.


  • #40
    maxamillius
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,139 ✭✭✭maxamillius


    ongarite wrote: »
    2023 onwards for new builds is what I've seen mentioned.

    Are they trying to phase out oil boilers?


  • #41
    bertsmom
    Registered Users Posts: 539 ✭✭✭bertsmom


    Oh crap really? I've a grant boiler here that's got another year or two left in it but I'd rather change it now if they are going to be disallowed in a year or two. God that's a bummer


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  • #42
    CoBo55
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,320 ✭✭✭CoBo55


    bertsmom wrote: »
    Oh crap really? I've a grant boiler here that's got another year or two left in it but I'd rather change it now if they are going to be disallowed in a year or two. God that's a bummer

    New builds.


  • #43
    Widescreen
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,101 ✭✭✭Widescreen


    I guess we would all prefer to go green, as the price of oil is only going to go one way.

    Problem I have is that there is very little information out there, that is easily available and understandable to the layman, on the likes of heat pumps.

    For example I assume a heat pump won't use your existing radiators and pipes will it?


  • #44
    CoBo55
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,320 ✭✭✭CoBo55


    Widescreen wrote: »
    I guess we would all prefer to go green, as the price of oil is only going to go one way.

    Problem I have is that there is very little information out there, that is easily available and understandable to the layman, on the likes of heat pumps.

    For example I assume a heat pump won't use your existing radiators and pipes will it?

    I wouldn't agree that it's a certainty that oil price will only rise, with a decent boiler and properly balanced rads etc it's still a very affordable and convenient way to heat your home.


  • #45
    Widescreen
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,101 ✭✭✭Widescreen


    Can anyway recommend any good oil boiler installer/plumber in Limerick/Clare area to install one of these boilers and flush out the system maybe change a couple of rads?


  • #46
    declan b
    Registered Users Posts: 39 ✭declan b


    HBC08 wrote: »
    Got the actual qoute today after the boiler man came to have a look.
    €1500 fully fitted for Warmflow boiler, he'll do a Grant boiler for about €300 more.
    The old boiler working but on the way out,I have attached pic.

    Water is leaking between the flue and the top of the heatpac.This is what is causing the corrosion.This can be sealed with a nice bead of hi-temp silicone.
    The corrosion looks superficial.I dont see a reason why this boiler cant run like new after a proper service.
    The argument for fitting a new boiler is that it would be 15 percent more efficient approx

    New warmflow boiler,new circulation pump.remote acting fire valve,boiler commisioned for 1500 is not possible


  • #47
    CoBo55
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,320 ✭✭✭CoBo55


    declan b wrote: »
    Water is leaking between the flue and the top of the heatpac.This is what is causing the corrosion.This can be sealed with a nice bead of hi-temp silicone.
    The corrosion looks superficial.I dont see a reason why this boiler cant run like new after a proper service.
    The argument for fitting a new boiler is that it would be 15 percent more efficient approx

    New warmflow boiler,new circulation pump.remote acting fire valve,boiler commisioned for 1500 is not possible

    +1


  • #48
    galteeboy
    Registered Users Posts: 58 ✭✭galteeboy


    Have a Gerkros boiler and started leaking from part circled in picture. Boiler was in house when moved in and house is 25 years old and there is a good bit of rust on it so not sure if it is worth repairing. What would a ball park figure to replace with a new Grant Boiler before? There is 11 rads on the system.


  • #49
    Lenar3556
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,523 ✭✭✭Lenar3556


    That particular part could be replaced quite easily, but really the boiler looks to be in poor condition and due for replacement regardless.

    There are different views on how much replacing it should cost, and it depends on what ancillary work is also required. The boiler itself is in the region of €1,300, but by the time you add on the various bits and pieces it is likely to cost about twice that by the time all is fully completed.


  • #50
    bluestrattos
    Registered Users Posts: 565 ✭✭✭bluestrattos


    An update on this thread. Yesterday I got an oftec engineer to service my Firebird heatpac 50-70, with a Riello G5X. Previously it was serviced by a non oftec tech.

    My current efficiency is 90.7%, I was very surprised as I would expect to be in the 80s considering the old age, but no, still working fine.

    The guy said overall looks good, and it should last a few more years, as long as we keep it serviced or at least, have someone just to do a check.



  • #51
    CoBo55
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,320 ✭✭✭CoBo55


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120306778#Comment_120306778

    A great boiler in fairness, my old machine is still flying it at 23 years old, serviced on the button every August.



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