Unwelcome Lodger

Rasher1234 · 01-04-2020 6:20pm #1

Hi
Does anyone know of a way to evict a lodger without giving reasonable notice?
I rent a room in my home end relationships have broken down to the extent I want him gone ASAP.
I know he has little or no rights (he is a licencee) and has torn up his 28 day notice and is threatening to call the police on me for harassment ....is there any way I can get rid of him quicker as the situation is very unpleasant in my home.

_Brian · 01-04-2020 6:23pm

Far as I know lodgers have no rights.

It’s your house.

If he won’t leave when asked, next time he’s out bag his shiit up leave it outside, text him, block his number and lock the door.

the_syco · 01-04-2020 6:24pm

Rasher1234 wrote: »

I rent a room in my home end relationships have broken down to the extent I want him gone ASAP.

Did you give him a lease? If no, tell him he has 48 hours to get out.

Also, if he only has a key for the front door, next time he leaves after the 48 hours, change the lock. If you have a car, park it elsewhere for a day or two.

un5byh7sqpd2x0 · 01-04-2020 6:25pm

He’s a licensee, has no rights including that of a notice period. The existence of a formal lease or otherwise is irrelevant. Ask him to leave immediately

WhiteMemento9 · 01-04-2020 6:26pm

the_syco wrote: »

Did you give him a lease? If no, tell him he has 48 hours to get out.

Also, if he only has a key for the front door, next time he leaves after the 48 hours, change the lock. If you have a car, park it elsewhere for a day or two.

Is he not covered under the new evictions laws?

dublinbando · 01-04-2020 6:26pm

Pretty sure the new covid measures prevent you evicting even a licensee, be very careful, you evict him and you could be in hot water legally.

Blaze420 · 01-04-2020 6:27pm

dublinbando wrote: »

Pretty sure the new covid measures prevent you evicting even a licensee

Nope rental only where there’s an agreement- **** him out the door

the_syco · 01-04-2020 6:30pm

WhiteMemento9 wrote: »

Is he not covered under the new evictions laws?

dublinbando wrote: »

Pretty sure the new covid measures prevent you evicting even a licensee, be very careful, you evict him and you could be in hot water legally.

Only if the lodger is a student.

WhiteMemento9 · 01-04-2020 6:31pm

Blaze420 wrote: »

Nope rental only where there’s an agreement- **** him out the door

Irish Times wrote:

A ban on evictions of tenants for the duration of the Covid-19 crisis has been expanded to include all tenancies in the State, including those not covered by the Residential Tenancies Act.

Does that not mean the opposite?

Blaze420 · 01-04-2020 6:32pm

WhiteMemento9 wrote: »

Does that not mean the opposite?

If you want to be hard arsed then no, a room rental is a licensee not a tenant of any description

Graham · 01-04-2020 6:32pm

the_syco wrote: »

Only if the lodger is a student.

and living in student accommodation...

dublinbando · 01-04-2020 6:32pm

WhiteMemento9 wrote: »

Does that not mean the opposite?

Correct, if you actually look at the emergency legislation, it includes lodgers as PBP kicked up a stink about it

WhiteMemento9 · 01-04-2020 6:33pm

Blaze420 wrote: »

If you want to be hard arsed then no, a room rental is a licensee not a tenant of any description

What are you talking about, hard arsed? I don't fully understand the new laws so I asked a question. Are you OK?

Time · 01-04-2020 6:34pm

WhiteMemento9 wrote: »

Does that not mean the opposite?

The Irish Times misunderstood the scope of the legislation. It does not apply to licencee arrangements in private dwellings where the owner also lives. The examiner ran a piece today confirming as much.

Graham · 01-04-2020 6:34pm

The Government has asked landlords of tenants living in informal accommodation to show “allegiance” and not evict them.

Last month, the Government announced a temporary ban on evictions and a pause on rent increases for an initial period of three months while the Covid-19 crisis is ongoing.

However, more informal arrangements, where tenants rent a room in a landlord’s home, or student digs, are exempt from the ban.

https://www.irishexaminer.com/breakingnews/ireland/landlords-urged-not-to-evict-rent-a-room-tenants-during-covid-19-emergency-991457.html

also:

https://twitter.com/merrionstreet/status/1245306534646644738

the_syco · 01-04-2020 6:35pm

https://www.irishexaminer.com/breakingnews/ireland/landlords-urged-not-to-evict-rent-a-room-tenants-during-covid-19-emergency-991457.html

However, more informal arrangements, where tenants rent a room in a landlord’s home, or student digs, are exempt from the ban.

So OP is not affected by the ban.

WhiteMemento9 · 01-04-2020 6:35pm

dublinbando wrote: »

Correct, if you actually look at the emergency legislation, it includes lodgers as PBP kicked up a stink about it

That was my reading of the way it was worded too but as I said in the previous post it is just from reading of the way it is worded rather than actuallly having any insight in the area.

Samuel T. Cogley · 01-04-2020 6:41pm

You need to give reasonable notice, but that is at most, a month. At the end of the 28 days change the locks. IF the 'lodger' tries to gain access, you should be the one calling the guards. I stress that 28 days is extremely generous in terms of notice, but if that's what you've given them...

fliball123 · 01-04-2020 7:16pm

Samuel T. Cogley wrote: »

You need to give reasonable notice, but that is at most, a month. At the end of the 28 days change the locks. IF the 'lodger' tries to gain access, you should be the one calling the guards. I stress that 28 days is extremely generous in terms of notice, but if that's what you've given them...

Also make sure you have it in writing for him and I would even bring a copy of the notice to a garda if you can and ask them to initial it stating that you have presented it with your lodger. You have a good eye witness that you were and are taking the action just cover all basis 28 days then boot him out and wave at him from the window

Rasher1234 · 01-04-2020 7:18pm

Thank you all ....just reassuring to know that I'm not incorrect in my thinking .

HAP are paying for his room , but notwithstanding this , its my understanding that the lodger / homeowner position still stands....he shares my home and facilities, has no separate entrance etc etc so cannot be regarded as a defacto tenant.

The only reason me giving 28 days is that HAP pay monthly and I think I need to align with that.

The new Covid19 arrangements are uniquely for Tenancy situations is my understanding .

Citizens advice / Threshold / Irish property owners etc appear to side with me.

He refuses to engage personally unless its sneering e mails and personalized negative commentary / covert threats of legal action etc should I attempt to get him out.

The situation is untenable , but I fail to see why he's demanding to stay , if my home is so horrific and I'm personally traumatizing to him????

Anywhere I have researched are silent as to what could be considered antisocial behaviour .....

Anyone have similar experiences and its heading in the direction of the guards

MissShihTzu · 01-04-2020 11:56pm

He is a licencee and not a tenant. Tell him he has 48 hours to pack his sh1t and get out.

Ask if a Gard can be present to prevent any aggro. (Might be a problem in present circumstances, but no harm in asking, I guess) Failing that, can you have a couple of large friends of the male variety present in case he kicks off?

Aye Bosun · 02-04-2020 8:55am

You’re not going to get any help from the Guards, this is the last thing they will want to get involved in in the current climate.

Your lodger is a licensee not a tenant therefore not affected by the new legislation. Reasonably note is subjective, if you have felt unsafe/threaten in your home because of the the lodgers actions you are within your rights to eject him immediately. As a lodger, their only recourse against you is from the small claims court for retention of deposit, so make sure you return that in full regardless of any damage/outstanding bills etc (write that off to experience)

But you are going have to put your big girl/boy pants on and enforce this yourself..as I said the guards will be no help, it would be a PR nightmare to be seen helping evict someone right now even when it perfectly legal.

It’s a really hard situation and I feel for you. I have had to do it with a lodger a few years ago and it’s not a nice thing to deal with. Have to say i’ve been letting out a room for over 10 years now and only had 1 issue so far. My current lodger, who has lived here 3 years is lovely and been respectful with hygiene etc. and it’s nice to have the company too while in lockdown.

Not all lodger situations turn bad, contrary to most opinions I see on boards.

amadangomor · 02-04-2020 9:25am

If he is acting so badly you owe him nothing.

My sister was in a similar situation with a very messy alcoholic and in the end I came over and changed the locks when he left for work.

Change the locks when he next leaves the house and leave his stuff outside the door. If he won't go away call the guards.

GreeBo · 02-04-2020 9:28am

I'm not sure how the OP is supposed to just change the locks in the current environment?

An easier solution is to move your car and then just lock the door behind you and leave your keys in the door. Its not like you have anywhere to go so just stay in your house for a couple of days and he will have to move on unless he is going to sleep in the driveway waiting for you to come out. If he does then call the guards.

listermint · 02-04-2020 9:30am

Leave key in door or deadlock door when he goes shopping and leave his stuff outside. This is the least confrontational way to get this done. In many ways it removes his options of reply which means the human interaction is taken away

TheBoyConor · 02-04-2020 11:14am

For a lodger who is being threatening and abusive, I would consider reasonable notice to be the amount of time it takes for his arse to hit the ground after being ejected head first through the front door.

Lodgers are there at the homeowners say so. the licence can be withdrawn at any time.

Thankfully the new laws exempt rent-a-rooms from the eviction ban. To not be exempt would be preposterous! It would mean that a homeowner and their family could be effectively held hostage in their own home by a rogue lodger who may be antisocial and abusive. The house is the owners house and home. It should not be considered the lodgers home - they are merely passing through.

I cannot fathom why anyone would accept HAP for a lodger arrangement. It is not obligatory. I wouldn't touch a HAPper with a pole. As far as I'd be concerned as a homeowner renting a room, anyone who cannot pay their own way and be out working during the day would not be welcome.

I wonder whether it is legal for a homeowner to refuse HAP or is that just for actual tenancies?

Whatever about HAP, why anyone would rent a room to an alcoholic is beyond me. If I had any sort of inklings that a lodger had a drink or drug taking issue, they would be out the door the following morning. My house would not be a venue for illegal substances nor do I want it burned to the ground by a drunkard leaving the cooker or an electric heater on at 2m.

Browney7 · 02-04-2020 11:25am

TheBoyConor wrote: »

For a lodger who is being threatening and abusive, I would consider reasonable notice to be the amount of time it takes for his arse to hit the ground after being ejected head first through the front door.

Lodgers are there at the homeowners say so. the licence can be withdrawn at any time.

Thankfully the new laws exempt rent-a-rooms from the eviction ban. To not be exempt would be preposterous! It would mean that a homeowner and their family could be effectively held hostage in their own home by a rogue lodger who may be antisocial and abusive. The house is the owners house and home. It should not be considered the lodgers home - they are merely passing through.

I cannot fathom why anyone would accept HAP for a lodger arrangement. It is not obligatory. I wouldn't touch a HAPper with a pole. As far as I'd be concerned as a homeowner renting a room, anyone who cannot pay their own way and be out working during the day would not be welcome.

I wonder whether it is legal for a homeowner to refuse HAP or is that just for actual tenancies?

Whatever about HAP, why anyone would rent a room to an alcoholic is beyond me. If I had any sort of inklings that a lodger had a drink or drug taking issue, they would be out the door the following morning. My house would not be a venue for illegal substances nor do I want it burned to the ground by a drunkard leaving the cooker or an electric heater on at 2m.

You can earn 35000 net and be entitled to HAP in Dublin so not exactly a given that a Hap tenant will be at home all day.

BarryD2 · 02-04-2020 11:31am

GreeBo wrote: »

I'm not sure how the OP is supposed to just change the locks in the current environment?

An easier solution is to move your car and then just lock the door behind you and leave your keys in the door. Its not like you have anywhere to go so just stay in your house for a couple of days and he will have to move on unless he is going to sleep in the driveway waiting for you to come out. If he does then call the guards.

He/she might need a glazier, never mind a locksmith! Can the OP not resolve this more 'amicably'? Has the lodger family, friends they can contact? Try and get them to persuade him that best thing is to move at the present. On other hand, if he stays in his room, can the OP not put up with it for a few more weeks till hopefully this virus crisis is passing???

TheBoyConor · 02-04-2020 11:46am

Op could warn the lodger that they will tell their employer of their erratic behaviour.

Browney7 · 02-04-2020 11:58am

TheBoyConor wrote: »

Op could warn the lodger that they will tell their employer of their erratic behaviour.

Notwithstanding the OP can tell the lodger to leave with "reasonable notice" I don't see what behaviour is too erratic or threatening based on what the OP has said so not sure what bringing any employer into it would achieve?

From the OP:

"I know he has little or no rights (he is a licencee) and has torn up his 28 day notice and is threatening to call the police on me for harassment"

"He refuses to engage personally unless its sneering e mails and personalized negative commentary / covert threats of legal action etc should I attempt to get him out."

Rasher1234 · 02-04-2020 12:03pm

Many thanks for your input everyone....it has been of great support personally.

The lodger has now sent me an e mail on my work account & not my personal e mail, saying that he is a tenant and has rights and I’m an alcoholic / drug abuser drink and that I'm harassing him by asking him to leave! FFS !

Crime victim’s helpline advise that is just not on and to get to the police immediately.

Flac have advised that he has crossed all boundaries for lodger / tenant by connecting with me at work (as e mail are the property of the company), and such statements are flagrantly abusive and harassing and more so as he has chosen to involve my work.

Apparently, they have seen this all before and would appear he is attempting escalating matters to provoke me to doing something illegal. He now has zero rights and has now forfeited the courtesy of me giving reasonable notice.

I have additionally returned the current HAP payment for April back to HAP this morning.

Im off to the police this afternoon !

Wish me luck!

cintec · 02-04-2020 12:12pm

Don't forget to change the locks and if he has your work email pre warn your manager of the situation in case he contacts them to be petty.

02-04-2020 12:14pm

Rasher1234 wrote: »

Many thanks for your input everyone....it has been of great support personally.

The lodger has now sent me an e mail on my work account & not my personal e mail, saying that he is a tenant and has rights and I’m an alcoholic / drug abuser drink and that I'm harassing him by asking him to leave! FFS !

Crime victim’s helpline advise that is just not on and to get to the police immediately.

Flac have advised that he has crossed all boundaries for lodger / tenant by connecting with me at work (as e mail are the property of the company), and such statements are flagrantly abusive and harassing and more so as he has chosen to involve my work.

Apparently, they have seen this all before and would appear he is attempting escalating matters to provoke me to doing something illegal. He now has zero rights and has now forfeited the courtesy of me giving reasonable notice.

I have additionally returned the current HAP payment for April back to HAP this morning.

Im off to the police this afternoon !

Wish me luck!

Domestic violence is not just physical it’s also psychological - if you are in fear for your safety ( and by the sounds of it you might be) - a legitimate complaint to guards ( only if this is true I must emphasise) could be the way to go.

TheBoyConor · 02-04-2020 12:20pm

As they say, give a man enough rope and he will hang himself. Which this clown has just done. To paraphrase Tony Montana, he's just fúcked himself.

I wonder will he be as gung ho and combative when he finds all his crap on the driveway and the locks changed. Lay low inside for a couple of days just in case he tries any bullshít like breaking in. If he does, you can defend yourself if the need for it arises. And call the Gardaí immediately.

B.A._Baracus · 02-04-2020 12:34pm

Hey op, he's just some ars*hole who can't understand he has to move on

So many people in this world love to pull garbage out of their backside and say "I have rights" blah blah. Rather than accepting the actual situation and moving on. I used to work in retail and the amount of Shi*e people would say because they didn't get their way! Unreal stuff.

Look .... The second you wanted him gone should have been the second he was gone. You don't owe him anything. He does not owe you anything too.

If you are not the physical confrontational type that's ok. Then call the guards.

02-04-2020 3:57pm

B.A._Baracus wrote: »

If you are not the physical confrontational type that's ok. Then call the guards.

Or the A Team :P

Rasher1234 · 02-04-2020 5:54pm

Bizarre !....

Been to the police an the they seem unwilling to get involved ....prob 'cos they don't wish to be seen to be facilitating a lodger being thrown out. ...which is understandable given today's challenges.... however , they did come down to witness me serve a 1 week notice , based on the lodgers irrational conduct and unreasonable behavior which I stated I found intimidating.... think it will only get worse before it gets better ! But at least , I have served notice , witnessed by guards and that the first step ! Hes under the total belief that he has rights to stay ....but i ask you , why would anyone want to stay in a place where he is unwelcome.... ??? Bizarre.

Watch this space !

if anyone could advise as to how my thinking is faulted , It would be most appreciated ...all my inquiries have confirmed my rational to be correct...have I missed anything?

endacl · 02-04-2020 5:58pm

WhiteMemento9 wrote: »

Is he not covered under the new evictions laws?

No.

endacl · 02-04-2020 6:02pm

Rasher1234 wrote: »

if anyone could advise as to how my thinking is faulted ,

It's not. Fcuk him out as soon as you finish reading this post if you like.

housetypeb · 02-04-2020 6:35pm

You should have ****ed him and his mistaken assumptions out the door while the gardai were there.
He's an unwelcome guest in your home,you just don't have to put up with it.

Gumbo · 02-04-2020 11:21pm

WhiteMemento9 wrote: »

Is he not covered under the new evictions laws?

No

amadangomor · 03-04-2020 8:24am

OP you will have to live with this lodger for another week. Not to worry you but if they are unstable are you not concerned they might try to get revenge on you in some way.

Can't believe you didn't get them to leave immediately!

Sheep Shagger · 03-04-2020 8:33am

You are being too nice and you won't be rewarded for it.

I would have ****ed him out while the gards were there witness it, just say you changed your mind if they give out.

So you have returned the HAP money but he gets to stay a bit longer?

Find an emergency locksmith who is working during this lockdown and change the locks while he is out. Leave his stuff outside - job done.

BarryD2 · 03-04-2020 10:05am

endacl wrote: »

It's not. Fcuk him out as soon as you finish reading this post if you like.

Just remember, you're only hearing one side of the story here..............

Looks like lynch mob rules apply here.

Ballso · 03-04-2020 10:10am

BarryD2 wrote: »

Just remember, you're only hearing one side of the story here..............

Looks like lynch mob rules apply here.

Some vicious stuff on here lately alright. You'd swear it was mandatory to rent out rooms in your house to strangers for profit the way they go on.

893bet · 03-04-2020 10:34am

BarryD2 wrote: »

Just remember, you're only hearing one side of the story here..............

Looks like lynch mob rules apply here.

No it’s the my house, my rules mob.

melekalikimaka · 03-04-2020 10:36am

Sheep Shagger wrote: »

Find an emergency locksmith who is working during this lockdown and change the locks while he is out. Leave his stuff outside - job done.

Ive not left my house in over a week, tough time to try do it, but 100% needs to be done.

TheBoyConor · 03-04-2020 11:27am

Well you've unfortunately given him a week so you'll have to stick to that.
But when that week is up, if he gives any lip I'd catch him up by the neck and send him head first out through the nearest window.

Prick of a lodger, he has no rights and doesn't deserve any. It's your house.

AndrewJRenko · 03-04-2020 12:38pm

Rasher1234 wrote: »

Bizarre !....

Been to the police an the they seem unwilling to get involved ....prob 'cos they don't wish to be seen to be facilitating a lodger being thrown out. ...which is understandable given today's challenges.... however , they did come down to witness me serve a 1 week notice , based on the lodgers irrational conduct and unreasonable behavior which I stated I found intimidating.... think it will only get worse before it gets better !

I'd guess they are unwilling to get involved because this is a civil matter between you and your lodger. The Gardai are there to enforce criminal law, not to help you to sort out commercial disputes.

If your lodger has broken the law, report that breach to the Gardai. Otherwise, it's not really their issue.

Rasher1234 wrote: »

but i ask you , why would anyone want to stay in a place where he is unwelcome.... ??? Bizarre.

Possibly because he has nowhere else to live.

TheBoyConor · 03-04-2020 12:58pm

That is the risk one takes when they are a lodger. If he want's security, then he must get his act in order and buy a property of his own. It is his issue, not the responsibility of another homeowner.

Ballso · 03-04-2020 1:18pm

TheBoyConor wrote: »

That is the risk one takes when they are a lodger. If he want's security, then he must get his act in order and buy a property of his own. It is his issue, not the responsibility of another homeowner.

Spoken like someone from the 1700s.

What kind of oddball buys a property then immediately gives up their privacy for profit to allow some random stranger to move in. Oddballs.

Unwelcome Lodger

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